Is now a good time to purchase a DP 2 Merrill, is a DP successor around the corner?

Started Jul 31, 2013 | Questions
manaskarekar
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Is now a good time to purchase a DP 2 Merrill, is a DP successor around the corner?
Jul 31, 2013

I'm really really tempted to purchase the DP2M for the past few weeks and have been putting it off because of the price and how long it's been out.

Please forgive me if it's obvious and mentioned somewhere but from some decent googling and looking at past Sigma Foveon related release dates I'm unable to make a decision.

Simple question, should I buy a DP2M today? I do not NEED one, and I do not mind waiting for 3-4 months, but I'd rather be out there shooting. Are we just around the corner of a new DP successor?

Thanks a lot.

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FritsThomsen
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Re: Is now a good time to purchase a DP 2 Merrill, is a DP successor around the corner?
In reply to manaskarekar, Jul 31, 2013

I guess its an OK time to buy a DP2M ...   there are NO signs that a successor is anywhere around the corner....  having said that ..Sigma is rather good at keeping quiet ..so  who knows ..?

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manaskarekar
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Re: Is now a good time to purchase a DP 2 Merrill, is a DP successor around the corner?
In reply to FritsThomsen, Jul 31, 2013

I went ahead and bought one anyway. Now is the time when Sigma will go on to announce a new DP camera.

Took one for the team.

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L Tippett
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Re: Is now a good time to purchase a DP 2 Merrill, is a DP successor around the corner?
In reply to manaskarekar, Jul 31, 2013

You will not be disappointed the DP2 Merrill has exceptional IQ and there isn't much out there to touch it in that respect.

Look forward in seeing some of your images in the near future.

Kind regards Lea.

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maxotics
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Re: Is now a good time to purchase a DP 2 Merrill, is a DP successor around the corner?
In reply to manaskarekar, Aug 1, 2013

I'm still using a dp1 and I have a dp2s.  Certainly, I want a Merrill, but only for better speed, ergonomics, etc.  For what I do, posting images on flickr, print a 5x7 ocassionally, I can't see EVER outgrowing these cameras, IQ wise.  Unless you're printing large photos, I can't see you ever outgrowing that camera either.  Also, when the new ones come out, you can get the dp1 or 3 the new flavor.  You'll want that more than upgrading the 2.  Yep, you'll be good for life!

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manaskarekar
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Re: Is now a good time to purchase a DP 2 Merrill, is a DP successor around the corner?
In reply to maxotics, Aug 1, 2013

L Tippett wrote:

You will not be disappointed the DP2 Merrill has exceptional IQ and there isn't much out there to touch it in that respect.

Look forward in seeing some of your images in the near future.

Kind regards Lea.

Thank you Lea, I can't wait to have it in my hands.

maxotics wrote:

I'm still using a dp1 and I have a dp2s. Certainly, I want a Merrill, but only for better speed, ergonomics, etc. For what I do, posting images on flickr, print a 5x7 ocassionally, I can't see EVER outgrowing these cameras, IQ wise. Unless you're printing large photos, I can't see you ever outgrowing that camera either. Also, when the new ones come out, you can get the dp1 or 3 the new flavor. You'll want that more than upgrading the 2. Yep, you'll be good for life!

That is excellent to know. The reason I was tempted to hold back was so I could get the next iteration which should be better in terms of not just image quality/sorted out niggles but mostly improved battery life!

That said, I'm planning to purchase a huge battery pack and the SAC-5 adapter.

I'm excited!

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mike earussi
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Re: Is now a good time to purchase a DP 2 Merrill, is a DP successor around the corner?
In reply to manaskarekar, Aug 1, 2013

There's always something "new and improved" coming out just around the corner, and there always will be. If you keep waiting for the next iteration you'll never buy anything.

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manaskarekar
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Re: Is now a good time to purchase a DP 2 Merrill, is a DP successor around the corner?
In reply to mike earussi, Aug 1, 2013

mike earussi wrote:

There's always something "new and improved" coming out just around the corner, and there always will be. If you keep waiting for the next iteration you'll never buy anything.

As true as that always is, if you are waiting within a reasonable period with an expectation of reasonable features, waiting isn't too bad.

For example, I'm not waiting for a vague 'better DPM or the latest and greatest', I was waiting for a DP M with improved battery life, which was a borderline deal killer for me. I don't think there's anything wrong with waiting if you have some minimum requirements that may be fulfilled in the next iteration.

Eventually, my gear lust took over and I bought one anyway, but the whole argument that 'there will always be something better and there is no point waiting' falls flat when you know the features you absolutely need are around the corner and it's a 'want' purchase, not a 'need' one.

That is exactly what led me to ask the question, if there were any rumors floating about of an impending update to the DP M's. And given how technology progresses, I have a good amount of faith that the battery life will be improved in the next iteration along with (hopefully) a lot of other things.

That said, I am super excited and can't wait to receive the camera.

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NancyP
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Re: Is now a good time to purchase a DP 2 Merrill, is a DP successor around the corner?
In reply to manaskarekar, Aug 1, 2013

The pain-in-the-ass slow SPP tends to make me somewhat more deliberate in setting up shots now, so I have no battery problems as long as I have a charged spare. The DP2M is like "slow food" enjoyed in a leisurely fashion, a pleasant change from my "run and gun" bird photography.

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manaskarekar
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Re: Is now a good time to purchase a DP 2 Merrill, is a DP successor around the corner?
In reply to NancyP, Aug 1, 2013

NancyP wrote:

The pain-in-the-ass slow SPP tends to make me somewhat more deliberate in setting up shots now, so I have no battery problems as long as I have a charged spare. The DP2M is like "slow food" enjoyed in a leisurely fashion, a pleasant change from my "run and gun" bird photography.

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NancyP

That is good to know. I am used to the slow food approach as I'm used to shooting with the Canon TS-E 24 II lens. Believe it or not I bought the Sigma because the TS-E requires much more deliberation and the DP is an easier to setup and use camera.

Yes, I said it. I upgraded to the DP2M for ease of use.

I love my 6D + TS-E 24II to death and I know the DP won't be able to give me infinite focus that I achieve with Tilt, not will it give me 40MP stitches as easily, but I will be able to hike much more with the DP2M and can get away with something like a gorillapod instead of a big tripod.

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Gesture
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Re: Is now a good time to purchase a DP 2 Merrill, is a DP successor around the corner?
In reply to manaskarekar, Aug 1, 2013

Doesn't seem like they have been out long at all.  Adorama seems to have them at $800, which I think is extremely competitive with Coolpix A, Ricoh GR and Fuji and Sony APS-C sensor mirrorless cameras.  It's hard to imagine a new sensor and I don't expect Sigma to bring on new resources to improve the camera's non-sensor/non-lens infrastructure.

Sigma seem to be focusing on new lenses right now and I believe its first priority beyond lenses should be a more modern flagship camera-Live View, etc.  Even if one prefers an OVF for most shooting, Live View is wonderful for working on a tripod.

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manaskarekar
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Re: Is now a good time to purchase a DP 2 Merrill, is a DP successor around the corner?
In reply to Gesture, Aug 1, 2013

Gesture wrote:

Doesn't seem like they have been out long at all. Adorama seems to have them at $800, which I think is extremely competitive with Coolpix A, Ricoh GR and Fuji and Sony APS-C sensor mirrorless cameras.

I know that $800 seems like a bargain for those who are going to buy for the Foveon sensor anyway, but I think we're a pretty small minority. The other cameras you mentioned are waay more cameras for that price point - especially the Ricoh GR. I almost bought that one. The only thing that stopped me was the FOVEON sensor.

If you haven't check out the Ricoh GR, I would urge you to, it is a truly remarkable camera (and it's actually pocketable) and at $800 new, it's nothing short of a steal.

It's hard to imagine a new sensor and I don't expect Sigma to bring on new resources to improve the camera's non-sensor/non-lens infrastructure.

I don't know why they wouldn't be working on a new sensor with all guns blazing. Canon and Sony are both rumored to be working on Foveon type sensors (from my limited reading of rumors) and Sigma has a magic bullet in their stable. This is something that will allow them to sell Sigma bodies (and that has got to be better in multiple ways than selling third party lenses only). And they have the truly distinguishing feature to break Canikon's domninance. I believe they are working their asses off trying to get new sensor/cameras out the door. Time will tell, of course.

Sigma seem to be focusing on new lenses right now and I believe its first priority beyond lenses should be a more modern flagship camera-Live View, etc. Even if one prefers an OVF for most shooting, Live View is wonderful for working on a tripod.

A sub-$1200 ILC of any sort with a new Foveon sensor should be a market shaker. One of those, and one pro-level DSLR with the foveon sensor, full frame or not, and boom, Sigma can become a major player.

Exciting times.

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maxotics
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Re: Is now a good time to purchase a DP 2 Merrill, is a DP successor around the corner?
In reply to manaskarekar, Aug 1, 2013

That is excellent to know. The reason I was tempted to hold back was so I could get the next iteration which should be better in terms of not just image quality/sorted out niggles but mostly improved battery life!

I don't find the battery life to be so bad for the size battery.  Bigger batteries mean more weight and size.  It easy enough to pack 3 batteries.  It's impossible to cut weight and size from a camera where the manufacturer has designed in a big battery.  Like you said, you can buy an A/C adapter and/or hook up to external battery.

Also these li-something batteries lose a charge quickly. More important you remember to charge them, than their size.  A weird thing I like about these cameras is they force you to think and to plan accordingly.  It sounds like you already do this.   This all goes to say I don't believe the batteries will ever be good enough.  Improvements will be minor.  Sort of like freeways in Los Angeles.  No matter how many lanes they build, it takes you 2 hours to get home

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manaskarekar
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Re: Is now a good time to purchase a DP 2 Merrill, is a DP successor around the corner?
In reply to maxotics, Aug 1, 2013

maxotics wrote:

That is excellent to know. The reason I was tempted to hold back was so I could get the next iteration which should be better in terms of not just image quality/sorted out niggles but mostly improved battery life!

I don't find the battery life to be so bad for the size battery. Bigger batteries mean more weight and size. It easy enough to pack 3 batteries. It's impossible to cut weight and size from a camera where the manufacturer has designed in a big battery. Like you said, you can buy an A/C adapter and/or hook up to external battery.

I can live with it, no doubt, but other cameras (specifically Ricoh GR) do get much more out of similar sized batteries, and thus the expectation.

Also these li-something batteries lose a charge quickly. More important you remember to charge them, than their size. A weird thing I like about these cameras is they force you to think and to plan accordingly. It sounds like you already do this. This all goes to say I don't believe the batteries will ever be good enough. Improvements will be minor. Sort of like freeways in Los Angeles. No matter how many lanes they build, it takes you 2 hours to get home

I understand that the Foveon sensor and its dual processor setup is a power hungry setup. But as with all technology - computers and phones for example, the battery technology doesn't progress that much, the hardware architecture and software is optimized to reduce power consumption with succeeding generations while increasing performance. Which leads me to believe that it is inevitable that the next generation of DP successors will be much more power efficient.*

*assuming they upgrade their processors and don't add more features/sensels that offset power optimizations elsewhere.

Time to just purchase a battery pack!

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Kwick1
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Re: Is now a good time to purchase a DP 2 Merrill, is a DP successor around the corner?
In reply to manaskarekar, Aug 2, 2013

I sure hope so, I just bought one!

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SigmaChrome
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Re: Is now a good time to purchase a DP 2 Merrill, is a DP successor around the corner?
In reply to manaskarekar, Aug 2, 2013

Yes, now is a good time to buy. If you really want a DP2M, now is the very best time to buy one. Before they were released or announced would have be a bad time to buy. When they are no longer being produced would also be a bad time (you know... parts, warranty, etc.).

Seriously though... Sigma's camera release cycle is not fast. If you really like the output of the  DP2M, then buy one. IMO it's highly unlikely that Sigma will produce a replacement camera for at least another 12 months. I bought mine last December and I'm sure I haven't begun to get the most out of it. And the DP3M... wow!

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manaskarekar
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Re: Is now a good time to purchase a DP 2 Merrill, is a DP successor around the corner?
In reply to SigmaChrome, Aug 2, 2013

Kwick1 wrote:

I sure hope so, I just bought one!

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As did I.

SigmaChrome wrote:

Yes, now is a good time to buy. If you really want a DP2M, now is the very best time to buy one. Before they were released or announced would have be a bad time to buy. When they are no longer being produced would also be a bad time (you know... parts, warranty, etc.).

Seriously though... Sigma's camera release cycle is not fast. If you really like the output of the DP2M, then buy one. IMO it's highly unlikely that Sigma will produce a replacement camera for at least another 12 months. I bought mine last December and I'm sure I haven't begun to get the most out of it. And the DP3M... wow!

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Agreed. But you know, Murphy's law and all that. Can't wait for mine to come in.

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victorgv
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Re: Is now a good time to purchase a DP 2 Merrill, is a DP successor around the corner?
In reply to manaskarekar, Aug 2, 2013

manaskarekar wrote:

Kwick1 wrote:

I sure hope so, I just bought one!

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As did I.

SigmaChrome wrote:

Yes, now is a good time to buy. If you really want a DP2M, now is the very best time to buy one. Before they were released or announced would have be a bad time to buy. When they are no longer being produced would also be a bad time (you know... parts, warranty, etc.).

Seriously though... Sigma's camera release cycle is not fast. If you really like the output of the DP2M, then buy one. IMO it's highly unlikely that Sigma will produce a replacement camera for at least another 12 months. I bought mine last December and I'm sure I haven't begun to get the most out of it. And the DP3M... wow!

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Agreed. But you know, Murphy's law and all that. Can't wait for mine to come in.

In US if you bought camera or lens after july 1 of this year you get 4 year warranty after registration.

And i am afraid you will have to redo your gallery with your new camera they beg for Merrill's and big print

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Corkcampbell
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Battery life problem.
In reply to manaskarekar, Aug 2, 2013

This is a non-issue. Extra batteries are cheap, light, and portable. I bought two - even splurged for the Sigma ones ($30, I think) - when I bought my DP2M a couple of weeks ago. I've have yet to have to switch batteries during a shoot. The nature of the camera is that you spend a lot more time composing and taking each photo, so you shoot less but have more keepers. This was true of my original DP2 as well.

We all know that the designers had to make a choice of larger body, or smaller batteries; I'm happy with how they chose to make the compromise.

Last weekend I was  at a military parade where I was shooting like crazy, including video - I used a GH3 for that. Different kind of shoot; different hardware. The battery for the GH3 is huge; the designers opted for the bigger body and bigger battery. I don't mind that compromise either.

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Gesture
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Re: Is now a good time to purchase a DP 2 Merrill, is a DP successor around the corner?
In reply to SigmaChrome, Aug 2, 2013

To go from the DP/SD9/10/14/15 era sensor/s to the Merrill was a monumental effort-technically and financially, I expect.  I don't even think Sigma needs a new sensor, at least megapixel-wise.  Maybe, it can be refined.

I expect any new Merrills in the same focal lengths to be refinements in AF, interface, processor speed, power management, etc, like the DPs and DPx series. Those are the areas that could use refinement, I expect.

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