Fast sensors have made fast lenses obsolete Locked

Started Jul 31, 2013 | Discussions
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seilerbird666
Senior MemberPosts: 1,101
Fast sensors have made fast lenses obsolete
Jul 31, 2013

Quite a while ago in fact.

However there still are a few people who watch Betamax tapes, listen to records and use a land line so there will always be a few people who refuse to come into the modern world. They hang on to past technologies like it is a winning lottery ticket. They refuse to admit that new technology is better and they refuse to even try it.

High ISO cameras, advanced shooting modes, Photoshop, and image stabilization have all contributed to making fast lenses a thing of the past.

The economics are amazing. A Canon 70-200 f2.8 L IS lens is $2500. The exact same lens in f4 costs $1000. While there might be a few people in the world that can justify spending $1500 for one more stop, the overwhelming majority would laugh at such an idea.

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Manip16
Contributing MemberPosts: 515
Re: Fast sensors have made fast lenses obsolete
In reply to seilerbird666, Jul 31, 2013

I didn't realise better ISO performance also allowed for shallower depth of field. Today I learned...

James Pilcher
Veteran MemberPosts: 7,809Gear list
rather amusing
In reply to seilerbird666, Jul 31, 2013

seilerbird666 wrote:

Quite a while ago in fact.

However there still are a few people who watch Betamax tapes, listen to records and use a land line so there will always be a few people who refuse to come into the modern world. They hang on to past technologies like it is a winning lottery ticket. They refuse to admit that new technology is better and they refuse to even try it.

High ISO cameras, advanced shooting modes, Photoshop, and image stabilization have all contributed to making fast lenses a thing of the past.

The economics are amazing. A Canon 70-200 f2.8 L IS lens is $2500. The exact same lens in f4 costs $1000. While there might be a few people in the world that can justify spending $1500 for one more stop, the overwhelming majority would laugh at such an idea.

It never ceases to amuse me the kind of tripe that is served up here by the experts.

Jim Pilcher
Summit County, Colorado, USA

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jeffharris
Veteran MemberPosts: 4,801Gear list
Re: rather amusing
In reply to James Pilcher, Jul 31, 2013

James Pilcher wrote:

seilerbird666 wrote:

Quite a while ago in fact.

However there still are a few people who watch Betamax tapes, listen to records and use a land line so there will always be a few people who refuse to come into the modern world. They hang on to past technologies like it is a winning lottery ticket. They refuse to admit that new technology is better and they refuse to even try it.

High ISO cameras, advanced shooting modes, Photoshop, and image stabilization have all contributed to making fast lenses a thing of the past.

The economics are amazing. A Canon 70-200 f2.8 L IS lens is $2500. The exact same lens in f4 costs $1000. While there might be a few people in the world that can justify spending $1500 for one more stop, the overwhelming majority would laugh at such an idea.

It never ceases to amuse me the kind of tripe that is served up here by the experts.

Absolutely!

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s_grins
Veteran MemberPosts: 9,070Gear list
Re: Fast sensors have made fast lenses obsolete
In reply to seilerbird666, Jul 31, 2013

Quite a while ago...

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/51890830

You're late, buddy

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Looking for equilibrium...

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rpm40
Senior MemberPosts: 1,937Gear list
Re: Fast sensors have made fast lenses obsolete
In reply to s_grins, Jul 31, 2013

Its deja vu all over again...

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Morgs222
Forum MemberPosts: 95
Re: Fast sensors have made fast lenses obsolete
In reply to rpm40, Jul 31, 2013

Fast lenses will never be obsolete, its just that the better sensors give you better options.

If you you shoot scenes in low light using a great dof the faster lens is a waste of hard earnt money, yet its always the same.

Someone comes on here asking what are the best lenses for low light, and its always the fast lenses that get recommended, its not always good advice.

DLBlack
Forum ProPosts: 11,196Gear list
Re: Fast sensors have made fast lenses obsolete
In reply to seilerbird666, Jul 31, 2013

For you maybe fast sensors have made fast lenses obsolete.  For others it hasn't.  Both slow lenses for reduce size, weight and cost have there place; and fast lenses for low light and dof control, have here place in a photographers toolbox ox lenses.

In your example, if I was an Canon shooter and I have the money I would have both versions of the lens.  If I coukdn't afford both I will save my money for the f2.8 version.

Anyhow, there is another thread concerning the same topic.

Dave

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Ulric
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Re: Fast sensors have made fast lenses obsolete
In reply to seilerbird666, Jul 31, 2013

Does this also mean that faster lenses would make fast sensors obsolete?

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s_grins
Veteran MemberPosts: 9,070Gear list
Re: Fast sensors have made fast lenses obsolete
In reply to Morgs222, Jul 31, 2013

Morgs222 wrote:

Fast lenses will never be obsolete, its just that the better sensors give you better options.

If you you shoot scenes in low light using a great dof the faster lens is a waste of hard earnt money, yet its always the same.

Someone comes on here asking what are the best lenses for low light, and its always the fast lenses that get recommended, its not always good advice.

For me it means that I need only one fast prime lens.

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PC Wheeler
Forum ProPosts: 13,981Gear list
Re: rather amusing
In reply to James Pilcher, Jul 31, 2013

James Pilcher wrote:

It never ceases to amuse me the kind of tripe that is served up here by the experts.

Really!  But what "expert"?

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Phil

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jimoyer
Senior MemberPosts: 1,669Gear list
Re: rather amusing
In reply to James Pilcher, Jul 31, 2013

James Pilcher wrote:

seilerbird666 wrote:

Quite a while ago in fact.

However there still are a few people who watch Betamax tapes, listen to records and use a land line so there will always be a few people who refuse to come into the modern world. They hang on to past technologies like it is a winning lottery ticket. They refuse to admit that new technology is better and they refuse to even try it.

High ISO cameras, advanced shooting modes, Photoshop, and image stabilization have all contributed to making fast lenses a thing of the past.

The economics are amazing. A Canon 70-200 f2.8 L IS lens is $2500. The exact same lens in f4 costs $1000. While there might be a few people in the world that can justify spending $1500 for one more stop, the overwhelming majority would laugh at such an idea.

It never ceases to amuse me the kind of tripe that is served up here by the experts.

Jim Pilcher
Summit County, Colorado, USA

THIS

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mpgxsvcd
Veteran MemberPosts: 7,941Gear list
Re: Fast sensors have made fast lenses obsolete
In reply to seilerbird666, Jul 31, 2013

I think it is the other way around. Modern sensors have made the slow lenses useful now. That doesn’t mean that you don’t need fast lenses anymore. You still need shallow depth of field, EXTREMELY low light capabilities, and better optics.

Lenses like the 14-140mm, 7-14mm, and 100-300mm are actually quite useful in a lot of situations that they were not useful in before.

However, that doesn’t mean that I wouldn’t spend an arm and a leg on a good 100-200mm F2.8 lens even though the 45-200mm would probably get me 80% of the way there now.

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Art_P
Veteran MemberPosts: 9,159Gear list
We just covered this...
In reply to seilerbird666, Jul 31, 2013

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/51890830

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Art P
"I am a creature of contrast,
of light and shadow.
I live where the two play together,
I thrive on the conflict"

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areichow
Senior MemberPosts: 1,470Gear list
Re: Fast sensors have made fast lenses obsolete
In reply to seilerbird666, Jul 31, 2013

I disagree with the statement that they've made fast lenses obsolete, but it has made them let important. Putting the obvious DOF objection aside, there are still times when I want the light a fast lens can give me even with the best crop sensors. If you can get me a sensor that performs at ISO 51200 like the E-PL5/NEX does at ISO 3200 I'll be bothered less by a lack of fast lenses- but it'll never happen, at least not without a FF or larger sensor.

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mpgxsvcd
Veteran MemberPosts: 7,941Gear list
Re: Fast sensors have made fast lenses obsolete
In reply to seilerbird666, Jul 31, 2013

No matter what Higher ISO is a lossy process and faster glass is lossless. Lossy will never replace lossless for those who want absolute best quality.

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amalric
Forum ProPosts: 10,815
Re: Fast sensors have made fast lenses obsolete
In reply to seilerbird666, Jul 31, 2013

seilerbird666 wrote:

Quite a while ago in fact.

However there still are a few people who watch Betamax tapes, listen to records and use a land line so there will always be a few people who refuse to come into the modern world. They hang on to past technologies like it is a winning lottery ticket. They refuse to admit that new technology is better and they refuse to even try it.

High ISO cameras, advanced shooting modes, Photoshop, and image stabilization have all contributed to making fast lenses a thing of the past.

The economics are amazing. A Canon 70-200 f2.8 L IS lens is $2500. The exact same lens in f4 costs $1000. While there might be a few people in the world that can justify spending $1500 for one more stop, the overwhelming majority would laugh at such an idea.

Well, there's no doubt that something momentous is happening with smart phones.

One must be a bit unconventional to take the consequences. There are also the new devices for lifelogging, which are not much more than a fisheye and a hardisk. When you are back at home you magnify at will.

But even on Oly cameras you have a digital teleconverter that is suprisingly good. The SW uprezzes the crop. Now this means that in case of need you have s second lens twice the focal!. Of course you must have a sensor with good resolution and fast processing power - but that's happening!

People don't take the consequences of Computational Photography, because they are invested in expensive lenses, often without need, since they don't earn a living with it.

Never touch the luxury items of the rich, otherwise they'll shoot you in some wild countries.

I can see that this thread is going to be another  150 replies roallercoaster...

Am.

PS please note that I always specified that slower less expensive lenses can have the same or better resolution than the faster ones, like it happened for the first rangefinders that needed small lenses.

So better adapted lenses for small size, with no loss of resolution.

sigala1
Senior MemberPosts: 3,510
Fast lenses will just be expensive special effects lenses
In reply to seilerbird666, Jul 31, 2013

seilerbird666 wrote:

Quite a while ago in fact.

However there still are a few people who watch Betamax tapes, listen to records and use a land line so there will always be a few people who refuse to come into the modern world. They hang on to past technologies like it is a winning lottery ticket. They refuse to admit that new technology is better and they refuse to even try it.

High ISO cameras, advanced shooting modes, Photoshop, and image stabilization have all contributed to making fast lenses a thing of the past.

The economics are amazing. A Canon 70-200 f2.8 L IS lens is $2500. The exact same lens in f4 costs $1000. While there might be a few people in the world that can justify spending $1500 for one more stop, the overwhelming majority would laugh at such an idea.

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Agreed!

As sensors become better and better, the only use for fast lenses will be as very expensive special effects lenses, giving a shallow depth of field look that can't easily be duplicated in Photoshop.

String
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Ding, ding, ding...
In reply to seilerbird666, Jul 31, 2013

We have a winner in the Idiotic Post of the Week Award!

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dougjgreen1
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A long thread from 2-3 days ago made this thread obsolete
In reply to seilerbird666, Jul 31, 2013

All of this was covered recently

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