A58/A57 raw 800iso

Started Jul 25, 2013 | Discussions
brian14478
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A58/A57 raw 800iso
Jul 25, 2013

I converted both using sony image data converter. (to high quality j-peg)I scaled to match the a58.
I edited only the a58 file in paint.net. I added a touch of color adjusted levels and light nr. no sharpening whatsoever. this is 100% crop.

it is how I would probably pp the file on the a58 if I shot it raw.  ***I have both full size raw converted files in my gallery if anyone wants to download them and see what they can come up with. (the a58 might be scaled to match though)

so many question well..'if it was raw? well have at it and see what you can pp or come up with if interested. thank you,brian

Sony SLT-A58
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clockwork247
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Re: A58/A57 raw 800iso
In reply to brian14478, Jul 25, 2013

which one is which? I like the bottom one better.

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brian14478
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Re: A58/A57 raw 800iso
In reply to clockwork247, Jul 25, 2013

the bottom is the a58 file edited. its labbled on the bottom...sorry kind of small...brian

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sybersitizen
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Re: A58/A57 raw 800iso
In reply to brian14478, Jul 25, 2013

Why are you comparing an 'edited' file to an unedited file? Compare apples to apples.

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brian14478
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Re: A58/A57 raw 800iso
In reply to sybersitizen, Jul 25, 2013

sybersitizen wrote:

Why are you comparing an 'edited' file to an unedited file? Compare apples to apples.

I didn't want anyone thinking it was biased if that makes sense? with editing.

also I previously tried to edit them alongside each other and the files needed different pp. the a58 didn't need any sharpening and the a57 could benefit from a warmer tone and slightly different levels adjusted.   I sharpened the a57image but it was starting to negatively affect the file. I warmed color balance adjusted levels -a very light nr and sharpened. a little saturation also.

I tried to get the best out of the a57 file as I did the a58 and here it is...I don't know others preferences and others I am sure could get more out of either image in post-processing. anyway here they are..thank you ,brian

(how about them apples??ha ha ha ha)..I couldn't resist

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sybersitizen
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Re: A58/A57 raw 800iso
In reply to brian14478, Jul 25, 2013

brian14478 wrote:

sybersitizen wrote:

Why are you comparing an 'edited' file to an unedited file? Compare apples to apples.

I didn't want anyone thinking it was biased if that makes sense? with editing.

Not to me, no.

... I tried to get the best out of the a57 file as I did the a58 and here it is...I don't know others preferences and others I am sure could get more out of either image in post-processing.

I don't know about others either... but it seems to me that converting both files using straight IDC defaults is the way to judge differences between the cameras.

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brian14478
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Re: A58/A57 raw 800iso
In reply to sybersitizen, Jul 25, 2013

sybersitizen wrote:

brian14478 wrote:

sybersitizen wrote:

Why are you comparing an 'edited' file to an unedited file? Compare apples to apples.

I didn't want anyone thinking it was biased if that makes sense? with editing.

Not to me, no.

that some might think I tried to get more out of the a58....

... I tried to get the best out of the a57 file as I did the a58 and here it is...I don't know others preferences and others I am sure could get more out of either image in post-processing.

I don't know about others either... but it seems to me that converting both files using straight IDC defaults is the way to judge differences between the cameras.

both raw files are in my gallery already converted to high quality jpegs default levels....the a58 could use a touch of noise  reduction and look quite good.

the a57 well, that could use a few different tweaks and you are never going to get resolution back that isn't captured in the first place....

*popular photography a few months ago reviewed the a57 saying the a57 isn't up to the competition in resolution.  -'the camera sacrifices a  resolution to keep noise low'.

the a58 seems to have addressed that..thanks,brian

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sybersitizen
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Re: A58/A57 raw 800iso
In reply to brian14478, Jul 25, 2013

brian14478 wrote:
... both raw files are in my gallery already converted to high quality jpegs default levels....the a58 could use a touch of noise reduction and look quite good.

I agree that the A58 image looks both sharper and noisier... but EXIF says that these were not made with the same lens, so there's another variable (and I hope the A57 shot really was correctly focused).

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Gary Waugh
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Re: A58/A57 raw 800iso
In reply to sybersitizen, Jul 25, 2013

sybersitizen wrote:

Why are you comparing an 'edited' file to an unedited file? Compare apples to apples.

I agree that this seems to be an unfair comparison.

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Gary in PA

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sybersitizen
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Re: A58/A57 raw 800iso
In reply to Gary Waugh, Jul 25, 2013

Gary Waugh wrote:

sybersitizen wrote:

Why are you comparing an 'edited' file to an unedited file? Compare apples to apples.

I agree that this seems to be an unfair comparison.

Afterwards he described two files that were treated equally, so I looked at those. There is a difference with the A58 shot looking much better, but the difference seems too large... and there was at least one difference in the way the two samples were photographed. I don't think it's wise to come to final judgment on the real life advantage of the A58's image quality based on this or any other single comparison. A wider sampling of comparisons will eventually clear the air.

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123Mike
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Re: A58/A57 raw 800iso
In reply to brian14478, Jul 25, 2013

A few things wrong with this:

1) confirmation bias. Are you looking for make one particular one "win", to make yourself feel happy choosing a camera you probably already want to "win"?

2) imaging-resource is inaccurate sometimes. In particular I found A57 vs A58 showing certain part of the image being sharper in one area, and then sharper for the opposing camera in another area. So, when people see text come out hazier in one, on that bottle for instance, it is not because of the camera, but because of the test having been made inaccurately. The focus was off. Ever so slightly, but enough where people can use it for cherry picking.

3) image scaling automatically applies a noise reduction, sharpening, and enhancing effect, that naturally is the result of the image scaling algorithm used. For instance, if one were to take an A58 image, scale it down to A57 resolution and look side by side, the A58 image looks better. And that is because the A58 one then has undergone this enhancing effect. Scaling both images down to a medium resolution, makes that unfair advantage go away. One could scale the A57 image up and see how suddenly the A58 doesn't come far out ahead at all. Suddenly that higher dynamic range and low light sensitivity of the A57 (supposedly anyway) starts to count.

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Archer66
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Re: A58/A57 raw 800iso
In reply to 123Mike, Jul 25, 2013

123Mike wrote:

A few things wrong with this:

1) confirmation bias. Are you looking for make one particular one "win", to make yourself feel happy choosing a camera you probably already want to "win"?

What camera you own ?

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123Mike
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Re: A58/A57 raw 800iso
In reply to Archer66, Jul 25, 2013

Archer66 wrote:

123Mike wrote:

A few things wrong with this:

1) confirmation bias. Are you looking for make one particular one "win", to make yourself feel happy choosing a camera you probably already want to "win"?

What camera you own ?

You first. Which do you own, and which one are you looking to buy?

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Sony a6000 Sony E PZ 18-105mm F4 G OSS A3000 Sony E 18-55mm F3.5-5.6 OSS Tamron AF 28-300mm F/3.5-6.3 XR Di LD Aspherical (IF) Macro +5 more
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artlmntl
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Re: A58/A57 raw 800iso
In reply to sybersitizen, Jul 25, 2013

sybersitizen wrote:

Afterwards he described two files that were treated equally, so I looked at those. There is a difference with the A58 shot looking much better, but the difference seems too large... and there was at least one difference in the way the two samples were photographed. I don't think it's wise to come to final judgment on the real life advantage of the A58's image quality based on this or any other single comparison. A wider sampling of comparisons will eventually clear the air.

I'm not convinced there is a wide difference.

I've done my level best to examine the expert reviews and materials that are out there. I think there is an incremental difference in overall image detail due to the higher mp of the a58 sensor. We should be able to print a bit larger or crop in and get a little more back; but we may pay for that in image noise at higher iso.

I also agree that the new jpg engine does a very good job making the pictures look pretty. That's welcome for people who don't want to process RAW. I just don't think we're seeing a huge jump in sensor performance with this camera.

I wonder if the gains are worth the price in video quality, shooting speed, LCD quality, incompatible hotshoe, etc. I guess it only matters if you actually use those things.

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Hunter

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Archer66
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Re: A58/A57 raw 800iso
In reply to 123Mike, Jul 25, 2013

123Mike wrote:

Archer66 wrote:

123Mike wrote:

A few things wrong with this:

1) confirmation bias. Are you looking for make one particular one "win", to make yourself feel happy choosing a camera you probably already want to "win"?

What camera you own ?

You first. Which do you own, and which one are you looking to buy?

I have A850 and A58. I'm waiting to see what new cameras Sony will release in 2014.

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brian14478
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Re: A58/A57 raw 800iso
In reply to artlmntl, Jul 25, 2013

artlmntl wrote:

sybersitizen wrote:

Afterwards he described two files that were treated equally, so I looked at those. There is a difference with the A58 shot looking much better, but the difference seems too large... and there was at least one difference in the way the two samples were photographed. I don't think it's wise to come to final judgment on the real life advantage of the A58's image quality based on this or any other single comparison. A wider sampling of comparisons will eventually clear the air.

I'm not convinced there is a wide difference.

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/51716057

I've done my level best to examine the expert reviews and materials that are out there. I think there is an incremental difference in overall image detail due to the higher mp of the a58 sensor. We should be able to print a bit larger or crop in and get a little more back; but we may pay for that in image noise at higher iso.

I also agree that the new jpg engine does a very good job making the pictures look pretty. That's welcome for people who don't want to process RAW. I just don't think we're seeing a huge jump in sensor performance with this camera.

the raw files converted to high quality jpeg are in my gallery to post-process yourself if you want to..

I wonder if the gains are worth the price in video quality, shooting speed, LCD quality, incompatible hotshoe, etc. I guess it only matters if you actually use those things.

honestly if I had an a57 I wouldn't buy an a58 myself.....never said a a57owner should(once but they wanted a bit better noise control and as a secondary camera). I would wait myself as the a57 is a  great built camera low and high iso. and feature set.

I am just trying to point out that for iq res. and noise performance the a58 is a great camera for the imaging capabilities...

you should ride it out with sony..if you looked at the a58/canon t31 3200iso samples and the others(hope you do) it looks as if sony is heading in an excellent direction..

thanks, peace and love and pictures***brian

Hunter

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brian14478
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Re: A58/A57 raw 800iso
In reply to 123Mike, Jul 25, 2013

123Mike wrote:

A few things wrong with this:

1) confirmation bias. Are you looking for make one particular one "win", to make yourself feel happy choosing a camera you probably already want to "win"?

not in the least ..

2) imaging-resource is inaccurate sometimes. In particular I found A57 vs A58 showing certain part of the image being sharper in one area, and then sharper for the opposing camera in another area. So, when people see text come out hazier in one, on that bottle for instance, it is not because of the camera, but because of the test having been made inaccurately. The focus was off. Ever so slightly, but enough where people can use it for cherry picking.

maybe but from ephotozine its shows the same so its semi doubtful ..and I am not out to 'cherry pick'..

3) image scaling automatically applies a noise reduction, sharpening, and enhancing effect, that naturally is the result of the image scaling algorithm used. For instance, if one were to take an A58 image, scale it down to A57 resolution and look side by side, the A58 image looks better. And that is because the A58 one then has undergone this enhancing effect. Scaling both images down to a medium resolution, makes that unfair advantage go away. One could scale the A57 image up and see how suddenly the A58 doesn't come far out ahead at all. Suddenly that higher dynamic range and low light sensitivity of the A57 (supposedly anyway) starts to count.

I only downsized the a58 to match the a57 for viewing purposes(equal)and yes it does give it an edge compressing pixels from 20 to 16.   thank you,brian

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sybersitizen
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Re: A58/A57 raw 800iso
In reply to brian14478, Jul 25, 2013

brian14478 wrote:

artlmntl wrote:

sybersitizen wrote:

Afterwards he described two files that were treated equally, so I looked at those. There is a difference with the A58 shot looking much better, but the difference seems too large... and there was at least one difference in the way the two samples were photographed. I don't think it's wise to come to final judgment on the real life advantage of the A58's image quality based on this or any other single comparison. A wider sampling of comparisons will eventually clear the air.

I'm not convinced there is a wide difference.

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/51716057

That's the same comparison session that we've seen so often, presumably done by the same person and subject to the same possible flaws, like using two different lenses. Any meaningful evaluation has to wait for a wider sampling of test data.

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brian14478
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Re: A58/A57 raw 800iso
In reply to sybersitizen, Jul 25, 2013

That's the same comparison session that we've seen so often, presumably done by the same person and subject to the same possible flaws, like using two different lenses. Any meaningful evaluation has to wait for a wider sampling of test data.

hands on reviews

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/51716057

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/51598158

thanks yet again,brian

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brian14478
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Re: A58/A57 disregard the first link..sorry
In reply to brian14478, Jul 25, 2013

brian14478 wrote:

That's the same comparison session that we've seen so often, presumably done by the same person and subject to the same possible flaws, like using two different lenses. Any meaningful evaluation has to wait for a wider sampling of test data.

hands on reviews

wrong link on the first sorry..

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/51598158

thanks yet again,brian

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/51788200 it was supposed to be this*

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