Am I relying on SSS too much?

Started Jul 20, 2013 | Questions
TFSJake
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Am I relying on SSS too much?
Jul 20, 2013

I know the old "50mm = 1/50 shutter speed" rule of thumb, and I know it doesn't exactly apply. So I'm asking, what would be a modern day equivalent of that with SSS? I know SSS allows you (theoretically) to shoot 3-4 stops slower than without it, so is this an acceptable rule:

I figure my crop factor makes my 50mm lens behave like a 75mm lens. That would necessitate a 1/80 shutter speed, in the pre-SSS days. Now, moving it down 2 stops would be 1/20, and even further 3 stops is 1/10.

Is this the proper way of thinking? I'll admit, it's 1 in the morning and I got out of bed to post this because it was bugging me, so I may be completely off base in my thinking. If I am, could someone just give me a 2013 version of the 'focal length = shutter speed' rule of thumb?

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Atgard
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Re: Am I relying on SSS too much?
In reply to TFSJake, Jul 20, 2013

I think you're in the right ballpark. At 50mm I can usually get sharp shots at 1/10th or 1/20th shutter speed. Sometimes as slow as 1/4 or 1/8 if I'm lucky.

Of course, with moving subjects, that goes out the window. But I do find the IBIS to be worth 2-3 stops -- a big advantage.

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Nordstjernen
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Re: Am I relying on SSS too much?
In reply to TFSJake, Jul 20, 2013

TFSJake wrote:

I know the old "50mm = 1/50 shutter speed" rule of thumb, and I know it doesn't exactly apply. So I'm asking, what would be a modern day equivalent of that with SSS?

Just check your pictures. All generalized rules like this one has to be balanced to personal shooting technique and personal preferences.

I figure my crop factor makes my 50mm lens behave like a 75mm lens. That would necessitate a 1/80 shutter speed, in the pre-SSS days. Now, moving it down 2 stops would be 1/20, and even further 3 stops is 1/10.

Much more important than focal length is image scale and viewing distance. A 50 mm lens is 50 mm lens, With an aps-c sensor you just use a tighter crop.

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Chimere
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Am I relying on SSS too much?
In reply to TFSJake, Jul 20, 2013

Methinks that your thinking method is right (besides a small slip: not a "further" but a "total" of three steps would be 1/10 seconds). Think about it this way: if the final products (the pictures) are the same, mainly in size, it does not matter as how you arrive there.

The SSS however is just a very rough guide line. Much will depend on your implementation. If you squeeze the camera against your skull, perhaps support your bottom somewhere, and hold your breath while you press the shutter button you do far better. Just try it out and see how you do. Finally we are not shooting film anymore.

Chimere

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Allan Olesen
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Re: Am I relying on SSS too much?
In reply to Nordstjernen, Jul 20, 2013

Nordstjernen wrote:

Much more important than focal length is image scale and viewing distance. A 50 mm lens is 50 mm lens, With an aps-c sensor you just use a tighter crop.

Well, at same image scale, viewing distance and "shakiness", his reasoning about focal length is correct. 50 mm does not give the same blur from camera shake on different formats.

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seilerbird666
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Re: Am I relying on SSS too much?
In reply to Chimere, Jul 20, 2013

I just blast away and never worry about it.

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Rab G
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Re: Am I relying on SSS too much?
In reply to TFSJake, Jul 20, 2013

Hi

This shot taken in the Riverside Museum (Transport) Glasgow A37 kit lens at 20mm so that would be 30mm full frame and taken at 1/5th sec.

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TFSJake
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Re: Am I relying on SSS too much?
In reply to Atgard, Jul 20, 2013

Atgard wrote:

I think you're in the right ballpark. At 50mm I can usually get sharp shots at 1/10th or 1/20th shutter speed. Sometimes as slow as 1/4 or 1/8 if I'm lucky.

Of course, with moving subjects, that goes out the window. But I do find the IBIS to be worth 2-3 stops -- a big advantage.

Okay, I think I need to shoot without it for a few days so I can really appreciate it... I keep wanting to use 1/10 and move around...forgetting that SSS isn't some kind of magic bullet. Thanks for the confirmation of my thought process.

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Ed at Ridersite
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Re: Am I relying on SSS too much?
In reply to TFSJake, Jul 20, 2013

If you have a stationary subject, I think SSS works wonders.  I shoot a lot of wildlife and use shutter speeds well below the historical 1/focal length recommendation.  Shooting at 300mm, I don't hesitate to fire off three or four frames at 1/40th to 1/50th expecting to keep the best.  In fact, I think this is where SSS provides the most benefit.  If I have a tree to brace against, I'll even shoot at 1/20th or slower.  I generally pick slow shutter over high ISO.  Film is cheap these days

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Atgard
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Re: Am I relying on SSS too much?
In reply to Ed at Ridersite, Jul 20, 2013

Ed at Ridersite wrote:

If you have a stationary subject, I think SSS works wonders. I shoot a lot of wildlife and use shutter speeds well below the historical 1/focal length recommendation. Shooting at 300mm, I don't hesitate to fire off three or four frames at 1/40th to 1/50th expecting to keep the best. In fact, I think this is where SSS provides the most benefit. If I have a tree to brace against, I'll even shoot at 1/20th or slower. I generally pick slow shutter over high ISO. Film is cheap these days

Yup, I do this too… with a stationary subject, I'd rather try 5 shots at half the shutter speed (hoping to get one sharp) than double the ISO.

On a side note, I just now realized that your username is not"Ed at Riverside." 

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cplunk
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Re: Am I relying on SSS too much?
In reply to TFSJake, Jul 20, 2013

TFSJake wrote:

I know the old "50mm = 1/50 shutter speed" rule of thumb, and I know it doesn't exactly apply. So I'm asking, what would be a modern day equivalent of that with SSS? I know SSS allows you (theoretically) to shoot 3-4 stops slower than without it, so is this an acceptable rule:

I figure my crop factor makes my 50mm lens behave like a 75mm lens. That would necessitate a 1/80 shutter speed, in the pre-SSS days. Now, moving it down 2 stops would be 1/20, and even further 3 stops is 1/10.

Is this the proper way of thinking? I'll admit, it's 1 in the morning and I got out of bed to post this because it was bugging me, so I may be completely off base in my thinking. If I am, could someone just give me a 2013 version of the 'focal length = shutter speed' rule of thumb?

The 50mm = 1/50 sec shutter speed is based on the "amplification" of the movement of the image on the sensor based on the distance between the lens's focal point and the sensor.

This distance does not change with a smaller sensor, it's still 50mm. And the same amount of camera movement would make the same amount of "shake" in the image.

But this rule, I think it's the best rule of thumb, I think it's a bit of a safety measure for the film days. I'm pretty sure, even without SSS on, I can generally get a bit slower in most conditions. It's when carrying a heavy bag, getting tired, etc that people can get a lot shakier without really noticing, and becomes a good time to follow this rule.

But really, even 1/50 is pretty slow. Stop trying to keep it at ISO 100 all the time. Going up to ISO 400 you probably won't see much, if any difference in quality.

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Allan Olesen
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Re: Am I relying on SSS too much?
In reply to cplunk, Jul 20, 2013

cplunk wrote:

TFSJake wrote:

I know the old "50mm = 1/50 shutter speed" rule of thumb, and I know it doesn't exactly apply. So I'm asking, what would be a modern day equivalent of that with SSS? I know SSS allows you (theoretically) to shoot 3-4 stops slower than without it, so is this an acceptable rule:

I figure my crop factor makes my 50mm lens behave like a 75mm lens. That would necessitate a 1/80 shutter speed, in the pre-SSS days. Now, moving it down 2 stops would be 1/20, and even further 3 stops is 1/10.

Is this the proper way of thinking? I'll admit, it's 1 in the morning and I got out of bed to post this because it was bugging me, so I may be completely off base in my thinking. If I am, could someone just give me a 2013 version of the 'focal length = shutter speed' rule of thumb?

The 50mm = 1/50 sec shutter speed is based on the "amplification" of the movement of the image on the sensor based on the distance between the lens's focal point and the sensor.

This distance does not change with a smaller sensor, it's still 50mm. And the same amount of camera movement would make the same amount of "shake" in the image.

No. It would make the same amount of shake on the sensor.

But since the sensor is smaller, the amount of shake will be larger, compared to the sensor size, and consequently more visible in the final image, compared to the same image taken with a larger sensor.

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cplunk
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Re: Am I relying on SSS too much?
In reply to Allan Olesen, Jul 20, 2013

Allan Olesen wrote:

cplunk wrote:

TFSJake wrote:

I know the old "50mm = 1/50 shutter speed" rule of thumb, and I know it doesn't exactly apply. So I'm asking, what would be a modern day equivalent of that with SSS? I know SSS allows you (theoretically) to shoot 3-4 stops slower than without it, so is this an acceptable rule:

I figure my crop factor makes my 50mm lens behave like a 75mm lens. That would necessitate a 1/80 shutter speed, in the pre-SSS days. Now, moving it down 2 stops would be 1/20, and even further 3 stops is 1/10.

Is this the proper way of thinking? I'll admit, it's 1 in the morning and I got out of bed to post this because it was bugging me, so I may be completely off base in my thinking. If I am, could someone just give me a 2013 version of the 'focal length = shutter speed' rule of thumb?

The 50mm = 1/50 sec shutter speed is based on the "amplification" of the movement of the image on the sensor based on the distance between the lens's focal point and the sensor.

This distance does not change with a smaller sensor, it's still 50mm. And the same amount of camera movement would make the same amount of "shake" in the image.

No. It would make the same amount of shake on the sensor.

But since the sensor is smaller, the amount of shake will be larger, compared to the sensor size, and consequently more visible in the final image, compared to the same image taken with a larger sensor.

So, your taking the same amount of blur on the sensor, and expanding it for final viewing at a similar size?

I guess that does make sense.

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Tone Row
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Re: Am I relying on SSS too much?
In reply to cplunk, Jul 20, 2013

cplunk wrote:

Allan Olesen wrote:

cplunk wrote:

TFSJake wrote:

I know the old "50mm = 1/50 shutter speed" rule of thumb, and I know it doesn't exactly apply. So I'm asking, what would be a modern day equivalent of that with SSS? I know SSS allows you (theoretically) to shoot 3-4 stops slower than without it, so is this an acceptable rule:

I figure my crop factor makes my 50mm lens behave like a 75mm lens. That would necessitate a 1/80 shutter speed, in the pre-SSS days. Now, moving it down 2 stops would be 1/20, and even further 3 stops is 1/10.

Is this the proper way of thinking? I'll admit, it's 1 in the morning and I got out of bed to post this because it was bugging me, so I may be completely off base in my thinking. If I am, could someone just give me a 2013 version of the 'focal length = shutter speed' rule of thumb?

The 50mm = 1/50 sec shutter speed is based on the "amplification" of the movement of the image on the sensor based on the distance between the lens's focal point and the sensor.

This distance does not change with a smaller sensor, it's still 50mm. And the same amount of camera movement would make the same amount of "shake" in the image.

No. It would make the same amount of shake on the sensor.

But since the sensor is smaller, the amount of shake will be larger, compared to the sensor size, and consequently more visible in the final image, compared to the same image taken with a larger sensor.

So, your taking the same amount of blur on the sensor, and expanding it for final viewing at a similar size?

I guess that does make sense.

What I'm hearing is that the 1/FL on an APS-C really means 1/effective FL, meaning 1/75 sec with a 50mm lens? In that case, three stops from 1/80 would be 1/20 and not 1/10?

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TFSJake
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Re: Am I relying on SSS too much?
In reply to TFSJake, Jul 21, 2013

Hmmm, i'm bored so I did this as an impromptu test:

1/80 down to 1/2 in full stop jump SSS enabled, shot in Shutter Priority. Focused on the front part of the basket. RAW files converted to JPEG in Lightroom.

(Minolta 50mm 1.7)

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TFSJake
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Re: Am I relying on SSS too much?
In reply to TFSJake, Jul 21, 2013

I can't believe I forgot the EXIF data on those... argh Take my word for it that they're full stop jumps.

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TFSJake
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Re: Am I relying on SSS too much?
In reply to TFSJake, Jul 21, 2013

Same setup but Stead Shot = off (if I can get these pictures to do right...)

I think the 1/2 second exposure with SSS on might have been a fluke... (man I hope these did right)

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Ed at Ridersite
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Re: Am I relying on SSS too much?
In reply to TFSJake, Jul 21, 2013

What have you been drinking?

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TFSJake
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Re: Am I relying on SSS too much?
In reply to Ed at Ridersite, Jul 21, 2013

Ed at Ridersite wrote:

What have you been drinking?

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Would you like some? lol

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brian14478
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Re: Am I relying on SSS too much?
In reply to Ed at Ridersite, Jul 21, 2013

Ed at Ridersite wrote:

What have you been drinking?

I am glad I followed this thread if only for your response..that was funny.   it may be a 'spirited' question, but not mean spirited whatsoever*

thanks for the laugh, brian

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