RX100M2 Petition for Minimum shutter speed, should I bother?

Started Jul 19, 2013 | Questions
digitalphotographer
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RX100M2 Petition for Minimum shutter speed, should I bother?
Jul 19, 2013

Disclaimer first, I've never owned a Sony camera before, until this RX100M2. I own and have used multiple Nikon, Olympus, Ricoh and Fujifilm, but never Sony before, simply because it has a reputation of an electronics company catering to the masses. My perception changed when they won Best compact and camera of the Year 2012 with RX1 and RX100.

From the moment I received the RX100M2, I have fallen in love with it. Aside from the weird swivel screen issue documented here (http://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/3518735), it's the best compact camera ever made. Everything about it is sexy, beautiful and sleek. But unfortunately it has some really really bad habits. I'm talking real nasty ones.

One that I cannot live with is its stubbornness to not let me set the minimum shutter speed so I can get the Aperture I want while ISO floats. I know it was designed by probably Gen XYZ and intended to be used by of cool kids, maybe it just doesn't care what I need as a photographer. It won't even let me use Auto-ISO in Manual mode, unless I step up to RX1 which has a $2000+ difference. (Don't even get me started on how S-mode is a work-around, it's not, these are fundamentally different shooting styles)

Checking around, I realized that many others have been asking for the same thing since RX100, and I couldn't find a single statement or response from Sony in the whole wide net about whether they intend or will ever deliver this request, even though all other cameras that I own or have used at this type of price point is equipped with this standard feature. This is just sheer arrogance, or ignorance, or pride, or intentional?

So my question is, if this is a feature that I can't live without, should I join the mass of disappointed RX100 owners or return it now while it's still within the return window? Is a petition pointless for a company that is so gigantic and has such a bad reputation in customer service towards photographers?

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cd23murray
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Re: RX100M2 Petition for Minimum shutter speed, should I bother?
In reply to digitalphotographer, Jul 19, 2013

pointless...return it, if that is a dealbreaker for you (and it seems it is)

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Steinhansel
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Re: RX100M2 Petition for Minimum shutter speed, should I bother?
In reply to cd23murray, Jul 19, 2013

Return it as soon as you can!

It is not the camera for you and the way you shoot.  There is no reason for you to suffer.

Hans

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elliottnewcomb
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Re: RX100M2 Petition for Minimum shutter speed, should I bother?
In reply to digitalphotographer, Jul 19, 2013

Well, there is nothing like rx100, and not likely to be anything like it from another manufacturer any time soon, so I would keep it and master it.

I think it is worthwhile to gather names/signatures to request a minimum shutter speed capability.

I would suggest, any thing like this ought to be confined to simple request for that feature, and address only a single issue.

Complaints, explanations, personal experiences only lengthen it, needlessly IMO.

Issue, # of names, done.

Elliott

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Jamon47
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Why would Sony change a winning product?
In reply to digitalphotographer, Jul 19, 2013

digitalphotographer wrote:

Is a petition pointless ...

Petition... well Sony rarely publish firmware updates to Cyber-Shot cameras. The RX100 (and probably the RX100 II too) sells so well that Sony will be even less incline to break that “rule”. Your best chance is for other manufacturers to introduce serious competitors to the RX100s... that will have much more impact on Sony. BTW any manufacturers in a similar uncontested position would do the same... why change a winning product?

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Windschatten
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Re: RX100M2 Petition for Minimum shutter speed, should I bother?
In reply to digitalphotographer, Jul 19, 2013

I absolutely agree with you. This is my biggest complaint about the Sony RX100 and it's a bit disappointing that it hasn't been fixed until today. Making photos from people in lowish light is very hard to do without using the S mode because the shutter 1/30 is too low. Also the argument that we should just give back the camera is silly, the rx100 is a very good camera but it could be so much better with only a small, programmable software fix.

It makes me sad when I hear from casual shooters, that the rx100 is not that great because "it makes many blurry photos" when it could be so much better.

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Jerry R
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If I'm in a situation where I'm selecting f stop and shutter speed, the first thing
In reply to digitalphotographer, Jul 19, 2013

If I'm in a situation where I'm selecting f stop and shutter speed, the first thing I do is select ISO.

Maybe its an old habit from film days but I have never used auto ISO. The V1 has something like a 100-400 and 100-800 auto ISO setting which I have played with, but don't find auto ISO very useful.

Out doors base ISO except for sports and indoors 800 ISO as a general rule. For special pics I will select ISO, f stop and speed before shooting.

Would love to get a RX100. When I first saw it would have bought it on the spot if it had a tilt LCD and/or an EVF. It now has both but I got a V1 for $250 and another $150 for the Nikon lens adaptor. It has a great EVF and I can use all my Nikon Autofocus lenses. Just can't justify the $750 + $450 EVF = $1200. Maybe if Sony drops the package price to $300 like Nikon did with the V1 I would get one.

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BertIverson
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Re: RX100M2 Petition for Minimum shutter speed, should I bother?
In reply to digitalphotographer, Jul 19, 2013

digitalphotographer wrote:

... One that I cannot live with is its stubbornness to not let me set the minimum shutter speed so I can get the Aperture I want while ISO floats. ...

I have to totally agree with you on this issue (minimum shutter speed in A mode).
I know you did not want a work around (S mode) but here is how I cope with this RX100 deficiency.

I shoot A mode with auto ISO.
I assigned ISO to the EAST side of the Control Wheel. (moved flash to Fn)
When shutter speed is too slow (indoor shots), I click EAST and turn up ISO.
Or I set the lower limit of the Auto ISO range to force the ISO above 125.

This is not the right answer but, for me, the other virtues of RX100 out-weighed this issue.
Bert

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p12
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I miss that feature for a l l of my cameras!
In reply to digitalphotographer, Jul 19, 2013

was one of my most used setting on the beloved Pana FZ28. It should be standard on all cameras, not only the RX!

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Ron AKA
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Re: RX100M2 Petition for Minimum shutter speed, should I bother?
In reply to digitalphotographer, Jul 19, 2013

I wonder if using S Mode and setting the Control Ring for ISO would work for you. Just turn the ring until you get the aperture you want for the selected shutter speed.

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Harold66
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Re: RX100M2 Petition for Minimum shutter speed, should I bother?
In reply to digitalphotographer, Jul 19, 2013

digitalphotographer wrote:

It won't even let me use Auto-ISO in Manual mode, unless I step up to RX1 which has a $2000+ difference.

This is far from being speficific to the RX100. I believe that almost all high end compact cameras will not let you use auto ISO in M mode

Harold

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Tapper123
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Re: RX100M2 Petition for Minimum shutter speed, should I bother?
In reply to digitalphotographer, Jul 19, 2013

So my question is, if this is a feature that I can't live without, should I join the mass of disappointed RX100 owners or return it now while it's still within the return window? Is a petition pointless for a company that is so gigantic and has such a bad reputation in customer service towards photographers?

While I agree with you about being able to set minimum shutter speed, realistically it's not going to change.

Also, isn't this a fairly common thing; not being able to set minimum shutter speeds on pocket cameras? Can Canon's S100 or G series do that, for example? I'm not aware. But I still will take the RX100 series over everything else in its size class because I'm a pixel peeping fool. ;-P

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digitalphotographer
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Get ahead while you're on top
In reply to Jamon47, Jul 19, 2013

Jamon47 wrote:

Petition... well Sony rarely publish firmware updates to Cyber-Shot cameras. The RX100 (and probably the RX100 II too) sells so well that Sony will be even less incline to break that “rule”. Your best chance is for other manufacturers to introduce serious competitors to the RX100s... that will have much more impact on Sony. BTW any manufacturers in a similar uncontested position would do the same... why change a winning product?

or stand still to let others take over?

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thx
In reply to Steinhansel, Jul 19, 2013

Steinhansel wrote:

Return it as soon as you can!

It is not the camera for you and the way you shoot. There is no reason for you to suffer.

Hans

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digitalphotographer
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Petition site?
In reply to elliottnewcomb, Jul 19, 2013

elliottnewcomb wrote:

Complaints, explanations, personal experiences only lengthen it, needlessly IMO.

Issue, # of names, done.

Elliott

Agree.

Anybody knows any good petition sites?

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digitalphotographer
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biggest complaint for M2 too?
In reply to Windschatten, Jul 19, 2013

Windschatten wrote:

I absolutely agree with you. This is my biggest complaint about the Sony RX100 and it's a bit disappointing that it hasn't been fixed until today. Making photos from people in lowish light is very hard to do without using the S mode because the shutter 1/30 is too low. Also the argument that we should just give back the camera is silly, the rx100 is a very good camera but it could be so much better with only a small, programmable software fix.

I wonder why I haven't heard much about this "biggest complaint" in any of the reviews except on MingThein.com

I hope more users can voice their disappointment so Sony would not feel complacent to have this "best compact camera of the year"!

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digitalphotographer
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Minimum AutoISO 160?
In reply to BertIverson, Jul 19, 2013

BertIverson wrote:

digitalphotographer wrote:

... One that I cannot live with is its stubbornness to not let me set the minimum shutter speed so I can get the Aperture I want while ISO floats. ...

I have to totally agree with you on this issue (minimum shutter speed in A mode).
I know you did not want a work around (S mode) but here is how I cope with this RX100 deficiency.

I shoot A mode with auto ISO.
I assigned ISO to the EAST side of the Control Wheel. (moved flash to Fn)
When shutter speed is too slow (indoor shots), I click EAST and turn up ISO.

The is the best workaround I've read so far. But without a dedicated button for ISO or exp compensation, do you use the wheel for changing ISO?

In any case this method is too slow for street shooting where light constantly changes for me.

Or I set the lower limit of the Auto ISO range to force the ISO above 125.

M2 lowest AutoISO is at 160, maybe it's different from M1?

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digitalphotographer
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Re: I miss that feature for a l l of my cameras!
In reply to p12, Jul 19, 2013

p12 wrote:

was one of my most used setting on the beloved Pana FZ28. It should be standard on all cameras, not only the RX!

Fujifilm already announced this feature on all its mirrorless, plus Canon, Nikon, Olympus etc already have it.

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digitalphotographer
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Works for static situations but ..
In reply to Ron AKA, Jul 19, 2013

Ron AKA wrote:

I wonder if using S Mode and setting the Control Ring for ISO would work for you. Just turn the ring until you get the aperture you want for the selected shutter speed.

But for street shooting, where the lighting conditions drastically changes from one frame to another, while I move in and out of shadows, this is too slow.

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cd23murray
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Re: Get ahead while you're on top
In reply to digitalphotographer, Jul 19, 2013

digitalphotographer wrote:

Jamon47 wrote:

Petition... well Sony rarely publish firmware updates to Cyber-Shot cameras. The RX100 (and probably the RX100 II too) sells so well that Sony will be even less incline to break that “rule”. Your best chance is for other manufacturers to introduce serious competitors to the RX100s... that will have much more impact on Sony. BTW any manufacturers in a similar uncontested position would do the same... why change a winning product?

or stand still to let others take over?

I would argue that Sony is one of the few camera manufacturers that aren't standing still.  With the RX1, Rx100 and full fram nex that will probably be announced soon (for 2014), they are definitely not standing still (I would say the are leading the way really).  Now they aren't perfect but at least they are trying somethings others haven't.  In fact there is no direct comparison for the RX100 or the RX1 right now.

The RX100 (1 and 2) aren't perfect cameras and I think your suggestion would be a good one, but I get the feeling you don't want to like Sony or the camera (which is fine).  Either way they aren't going to add the features you want any time soon, even with a petition.

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