Is it design of new GX?

Started Jul 9, 2013 | Questions
Hen3ry
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Portraits in bright sunlight
In reply to tt321, Jul 11, 2013

tt321 wrote:

thxbb12 wrote:

Photomonkey wrote:

Back in the film days the lenses were just as fast but the top shutter speed was only 1/1000 for the most part. Leica really impressed us for their 1/2000 shutter speed on the SL.

We used ND filters but mostly we didn't think of trying to use f1.4 or 1.2 in bright sun.

Sure, but the reason for wanting to shoot wide-open with MFT is to reduce DOF as much as possible. Remember, you loose 2 stops compared to film.

A 25mm at f/1.4 with MFT corresponds to a 50mm f/2.8 in the film days, so given the shallower DOF with film one didn't have the need to use lenses as wide-open as it's the case with MFT.

Another problem with 1.4 or 1.2 on film is that one could almost never focus accurately enough for these apertures, given the limitations of the MF and AF capabilities of film cameras. The very fast wide open apertures were useful to help one focus accurately to shoot at 2.8. Hence the often atrocious optical quality of these old fast lenses wide open - for most people this was fine.

Show us some of your portraits taken in such bright light that you need 1/8000 to take them, thxbb12. I would be fascinated to see them.

Incidentally, back in the hey day of 35mm -- the 60s and 70s -- all photojournalists shot on Tri-X 400 ASA.

All.

It was demanded of them by publications and agencies for uniformity of processing and handling, and the speed which meant that they were able to shoot at a decent shutter speed with enough depth of field to get something in focus in varied light.

In addition, editors liked the "look" of Tri-X images. It was a great film.

Cheers, geoff

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woof woof
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Re: Portraits in bright sunlight
In reply to Hen3ry, Jul 11, 2013

Hen3ry wrote:

Show us some of your portraits taken in such bright light that you need 1/8000 to take them, thxbb12. I would be fascinated to see them.

Incidentally, back in the hey day of 35mm -- the 60s and 70s -- all photojournalists shot on Tri-X 400 ASA.

All.

It was demanded of them by publications and agencies for uniformity of processing and handling, and the speed which meant that they were able to shoot at a decent shutter speed with enough depth of field to get something in focus in varied light.

In addition, editors liked the "look" of Tri-X images. It was a great film.

Cheers, geoff

I have lots of shots taken with an APS-C camera at f1.4 and 1/8000 and the problem is even more acute with my G1 so I have no intention of buying a camera with a base ISO of 200.

Yes, years ago we thought ourselves lucky if we had a shutter speed of 1/2000, anything faster than f2.8 was a distant dream and ND's were our best friend but do we want to live in 1952 forever?

Fact is that if this latest Panasonic has a shutter speed of 1/4000, a base ISO of 200 or a crappy sensor made with technology Panasonic has had in its pocket for two years the Nex 6 is availanble and at least has a base ISO of 100.

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tt321
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Re: Portraits in bright sunlight
In reply to woof woof, Jul 11, 2013

woof woof wrote:

Hen3ry wrote:

Show us some of your portraits taken in such bright light that you need 1/8000 to take them, thxbb12. I would be fascinated to see them.

Incidentally, back in the hey day of 35mm -- the 60s and 70s -- all photojournalists shot on Tri-X 400 ASA.

All.

It was demanded of them by publications and agencies for uniformity of processing and handling, and the speed which meant that they were able to shoot at a decent shutter speed with enough depth of field to get something in focus in varied light.

In addition, editors liked the "look" of Tri-X images. It was a great film.

Cheers, geoff

I have lots of shots taken with an APS-C camera at f1.4 and 1/8000 and the problem is even more acute with my G1 so I have no intention of buying a camera with a base ISO of 200.

Yes, years ago we thought ourselves lucky if we had a shutter speed of 1/2000, anything faster than f2.8 was a distant dream and ND's were our best friend but do we want to live in 1952 forever?

Fact is that if this latest Panasonic has a shutter speed of 1/4000, a base ISO of 200 or a crappy sensor made with technology Panasonic has had in its pocket for two years the Nex 6 is availanble and at least has a base ISO of 100.

Yes. After the very loud requests for a NEX-6 clone heard in this and other M43 fora here seems to be the first attempt at it. So at least it should be as good as the model. Otherwise what's the point?

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thxbb12
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Re: Portraits in bright sunlight
In reply to Hen3ry, Jul 11, 2013

Show us some of your portraits taken in such bright light that you need 1/8000 to take them, thxbb12. I would be fascinated to see them.

Here is one. I shot it with the 45mm wide-open (f/1.8). I was able to shot it wide-open because inside the forest there was little light (compared to outside).

However, that day in bright sun light I couldn't shoot at a larger aperture than f/3.2! Keep in mind I have a G3 which goes to 160 ISO while an OM-D has a base ISO of 200.

So tell me geoff, what's the point of having an excellent f/1.8 portrait lens that you cannot use wide-open?

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s_grins
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Re: Is it design of new GX?
In reply to agachart, Jul 11, 2013

agachart wrote:

http://www.digifotopro.nl/content/breaking-ontwerp-panasonic-gx2-te-zien-in-patent

I think this is close (but not exact) design of GL camera

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DLBlack
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Re: Portraits in bright sunlight
In reply to thxbb12, Jul 11, 2013

Nice photo and I totally agree with you.  I really wish we could have native base iso down to 50 and extended iso down to 25.  Iso 200 is just too high for a base iso.  Yes, you can use ND filters to help out but that is shooting through another layer of glass.

Dave

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Flycoop
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Re: Is it design of new GX?
In reply to l_objectif, Jul 12, 2013

Me too. The GX1 is the perfect size & is my favorite camera. The only problem is that the sensor has relatively weak low light performanance. This was driven home when I bought my wife a Sony RX100. The low light performance of the RX100 is utterly amazing & blows away my GX1. My perfect camera would be the GX1 with a Sony sensor. The GX1 is, IMO, also beautiful. But alas, I may have to someday switch to an Olympus to get a small body with a snazzy Sony sensor.

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safaridon
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Re: Is it design of new GX?
In reply to s_grins, Jul 13, 2013

s_grins wrote:

agachart wrote:

http://www.digifotopro.nl/content/breaking-ontwerp-panasonic-gx2-te-zien-in-patent

I think this is close (but not exact) design of GL camera

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I really am surprised there hasn't been more excitement expressed on this forum regarding the new Pany rangefinder model with EVF (GX7)?  If you look over on 43rumors you will find that Pany has already said it is coming soon (August?) and 43rumors say the specs of new 18mp sensor, 2 axis IBIS,  tilting inbody EVF, inbody flash among others are confirmed FT5.

Earlier spec rumors were 2.3mp EVF,  I would guess most likely Epson's latest UHimicron 0.48" XGA EVF with 1024 x 768 resolution or twice the resolution in the current EM5.  If the patent sketches are to scale this new GX7 will be similar size to existing GX1 inspite of adding EVF.

What has happened to this forum?  Aren't we interested to know of new exciting developments by any manufacture?  Too often people venturing to post a new thread  for information or comment receive little or no response.

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FrankS009
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Re: Is it design of new GX?
In reply to safaridon, Jul 13, 2013

I can only speak for myself, but I am quite excited about this camera.  I find that I am holding back in my expectations a bit until I learn more whether the sensor is indeed new, or another version of the GH2 one. Perhaps on this forum we are super-sensitized to sensor performance.  In any case this seems to be the camera body I have been looking forward to for for years.

F.

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Mike Ronesia
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Re: Is it design of new GX?
In reply to safaridon, Jul 13, 2013

safaridon wrote:

What has happened to this forum? Aren't we interested to know of new exciting developments by any manufacture? Too often people venturing to post a new thread for information or comment receive little or no response.

From what I see this forum is dominated by Oly fans and many Panasonic topics are either ignored or belittled by them. Many of them have a need to feel superior so topics like this scare them. I bet some of them are hoping the new 18mp senor is not as good as the current ones which is just sad. You will see things pick up when Oly announces a new camera.

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captura
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Re: Is it design of new GX?
In reply to agachart, Jul 14, 2013

agachart wrote:

http://www.digifotopro.nl/content/breaking-ontwerp-panasonic-gx2-te-zien-in-patent

Ok so here's the Dutch to English translation. It appears to me to be just another example of the perambulations of one of those rumors sites...not much of any substance here that I can see:

"Seen in patent Design Panasonic GX2:. BREAKING
Manufacturers not only protect inventions with a patent, but can also capture industrial designs law. We discovered a patent from Panasonic including a design that we did not see before. We are pretty sure: this must surely be the unreleased GX2 are!
by: Jesse Bead | July 9, 2013

The website OHIM (Office for Harmonization in the integral market) we came across a patent for Panasonic that the design of a digital system camera shows. Usually we find cameras that have already been introduced, this time something went our hearts beat faster: this must be the Panasonic GX2?

Panasonic GX2

About the Panasonic GX2, the successor of the GX1, rumored for some time. Even though there appeared a comprehensive technical patent that describes a new camera. However, this patent that can be seen in the U.S. Patent Office, reveals little about the design of the camera.
specifications

In May we wrote extensively about the possible specifications of the Panasonic GX2. Digicame Info published a list specifciaties and 43rumors.com says make sure that the Panasonic GX2 provides a new 18-megapixel sensor with image stabilization (for the first time in a MFT camera from Panasonic) and a tiltable EVF with probably 2 million pixels.

About the specifications, we can not say anything with certainty, but the design as seen on these sketches is probably stuck. When Panasonic officially announcing the GX2 is not yet known. We will keep you up to date."

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peevee1
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Re: Is it design of new GX?
In reply to safaridon, Jul 14, 2013

safaridon wrote:

s_grins wrote:

agachart wrote:

http://www.digifotopro.nl/content/breaking-ontwerp-panasonic-gx2-te-zien-in-patent

I think this is close (but not exact) design of GL camera

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I really am surprised there hasn't been more excitement expressed on this forum regarding the new Pany rangefinder model with EVF (GX7)? If you look over on 43rumors you will find that Pany has already said it is coming soon (August?) and 43rumors say the specs of new 18mp sensor, 2 axis IBIS, tilting inbody EVF, inbody flash among others are confirmed FT5.

So basically it adds nothing to E-M5 (except having non-removable flash in body instead of replaceable flash in the box and useless tilting-up EVF - the feature apparently requested by people with neck braces for shooting skies), while removing 5-axis image stabilization and weather sealing. And the sensor quality is unknown, while sensor quality in E-M5 is very good.

Earlier spec rumors were 2.3mp EVF, I would guess most likely Epson's latest UHimicron 0.48" XGA EVF with 1024 x 768 resolution or twice the resolution in the current EM5.

2.3 is not twice of 1.44. Not that resolution of E-M5s EVF is the camera's biggest problem, or problem at all, at that apparent view it is more than enough. And 2.3mpix EVF is just your speculation at this point, it as well may be 200kpix EVF from LF1, right? And given the size contraints, I doubt it is going to be something like VF-4.

If the patent sketches are to scale this new GX7 will be similar size to existing GX1 inspite of adding EVF.

Bigger.

What has happened to this forum? Aren't we interested to know of new exciting developments by any manufacture? Too often people venturing to post a new thread for information or comment receive little or no response.

Most people who were interested in a good full-featured m43 camera have bought E-M5 a year or more ago. Any new development should concentrate on pushing the envelope further, and that would include improving AF-C+tracking, high ISO and global electronic shutter. No rumors like these, unfortunately.

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FrankS009
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Re: Is it design of new GX?
In reply to peevee1, Jul 14, 2013

Having handled it in the store, the E-M5 did not suit me. Panasonic bodies and ergonomics are better, at least for me. Therefore the new camera will add something to the EM5 by that important criterion alone whatever other advantages it might have.

Is a tilting EV useless? I have never used one, but it seems a good idea.

Your final remark that "Most people who were interested in a good full-featured m43 camera have bought E-M5 a year or more ago." makes a lot of unwarranted assumptions to say the least. I for one am interested in a good full-featured m4/3rds camera, chose not to buy the EM5, and plan to buy the GX7 instead if it is as rumoured. Nor would those who bought the GH3 agree with you, for example. There are different m4/3rd models that are full featured, both Panasonic and Olympus, that members of this forum may have purchased. Some like myself are waiting for the GX7.

To each his or her own. I take it that you did buy a EM5 and I hope you enjoy it.

F.

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Hen3ry
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Re: Is it design of new GX?
In reply to FrankS009, Jul 14, 2013

FrankS009 wrote:

Having handled it in the store, the E-M5 did not suit me. Panasonic bodies and ergonomics are better, at least for me. Therefore the new camera will add something to the EM5 by that important criterion alone whatever other advantages it might have.

Exactly.

Is a tilting EV useless? I have never used one, but it seems a good idea.

No, it is pretty cool, actually, in just the same way as the tilting screen is useful -- you can get down for that low viewpoint shot much more easily andin many situations, the tilting EVF is much superior to the tilting screen.

I have both on my E-PL3 with VF-2. I use the VF-2 tilted much more than I use the screen tilted (and that is usually with the screen tilted down so I can take a high shot.

Your final remark that "Most people who were interested in a good full-featured m43 camera have bought E-M5 a year or more ago." makes a lot of unwarranted assumptions to say the least. I for one am interested in a good full-featured m4/3rds camera, chose not to buy the EM5, and plan to buy the GX7 instead if it is as rumoured. Nor would those who bought the GH3 agree with you, for example. There are different m4/3rd models that are full featured, both Panasonic and Olympus, that members of this forum may have purchased. Some like myself are waiting for the GX7.

Damn right. Full featured? What does "full featured" mean. For example, the EM5 doesn’t have a built-in flash. The E-P5 does so that's an acknowledgement by Oly that the EM5 design is compromised -- less than full featured.

To each his or her own. I take it that you did buy a EM5 and I hope you enjoy it.

What a masterfully restrained statement, Frank!

Cheers, geoff

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GeorgianBay1939
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Re: Is it design of new GX?
In reply to Hen3ry, Jul 14, 2013

Hen3ry wrote:

FrankS009 wrote:

snip

To each his or her own. I take it that you did buy a EM5 and I hope you enjoy it.

What a masterfully restrained statement, Frank!

Canucks  are known for their self-effacing restraint!  

t

PS  As a GH2 and GX1 user, I passed on the OMD and the GH3, and also will consider the GXx.

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Sean Nelson
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Re: Is it design of new GX?
In reply to peevee1, Jul 14, 2013

peevee1 wrote:

safaridon wrote:

I really am surprised there hasn't been more excitement expressed on this forum regarding the new Pany rangefinder model with EVF (GX7)?

So basically it adds nothing to E-M5...

I'm waiting to see how good its video implementation is.  Oly's lack of good 1080p60 video is what's kept me from buying one, so yes - it could very well add something very important (for me) to the E-M5.

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jhinkey
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Re: Is it design of new GX?
In reply to FrankS009, Jul 14, 2013

FrankS009 wrote:

Having handled it in the store, the E-M5 did not suit me. Panasonic bodies and ergonomics are better, at least for me. Therefore the new camera will add something to the EM5 by that important criterion alone whatever other advantages it might have.

Is a tilting EV useless? I have never used one, but it seems a good idea.

Your final remark that "Most people who were interested in a good full-featured m43 camera have bought E-M5 a year or more ago." makes a lot of unwarranted assumptions to say the least. I for one am interested in a good full-featured m4/3rds camera, chose not to buy the EM5, and plan to buy the GX7 instead if it is as rumoured. Nor would those who bought the GH3 agree with you, for example. There are different m4/3rd models that are full featured, both Panasonic and Olympus, that members of this forum may have purchased. Some like myself are waiting for the GX7.

To each his or her own. I take it that you did buy a EM5 and I hope you enjoy it.

F.

I am one of those folks looking for a good full-featured m43 camera who did not buy the E-M5 because:

- No built-in flash (a must for me)

- Terrible ergonomics/terrible menu system

- Not the greatest video

I bought a GH-2 instead and have been very happy thus far - I will likely get the GX7 as it appears to have all the features, save the flip out screen and native multi-aspect sensor (both are nice to haves), that I'm looking for with hopefully a much better sensor the the one that the GH-2 has (which is actually very good for most of my uses).

I have a D800 + plethora of Nikkor glass, but I see this big heavy FX system becoming more of a low light/landscape/special occasion setup while my m43 system being more of a day-to-day and compact/light weight system when size/weight is critical.

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agachart
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Re: Is it design of new GX?
In reply to safaridon, Jul 14, 2013

safaridon wrote:

s_grins wrote:

agachart wrote:

http://www.digifotopro.nl/content/breaking-ontwerp-panasonic-gx2-te-zien-in-patent

I think this is close (but not exact) design of GL camera

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Looking for equilibrium...

I really am surprised there hasn't been more excitement expressed on this forum regarding the new Pany rangefinder model with EVF (GX7)? If you look over on 43rumors you will find that Pany has already said it is coming soon (August?) and 43rumors say the specs of new 18mp sensor, 2 axis IBIS, tilting inbody EVF, inbody flash among others are confirmed FT5.

Earlier spec rumors were 2.3mp EVF, I would guess most likely Epson's latest UHimicron 0.48" XGA EVF with 1024 x 768 resolution or twice the resolution in the current EM5. If the patent sketches are to scale this new GX7 will be similar size to existing GX1 inspite of adding EVF.

What has happened to this forum? Aren't we interested to know of new exciting developments by any manufacture? Too often people venturing to post a new thread for information or comment receive little or no response.

i can't found where is power button(on/off)! in right hand like power zoom control 

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peevee1
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Re: Is it design of new GX?
In reply to FrankS009, Jul 14, 2013

FrankS009 wrote:

Having handled it in the store, the E-M5 did not suit me. Panasonic bodies and ergonomics are better, at least for me. Therefore the new camera will add something to the EM5 by that important criterion alone whatever other advantages it might have.

Do you know that? It is going to be a small body, without large grip. What added ergonomics?

Is a tilting EV useless? I have never used one, but it seems a good idea.

How is it a good idea? An extra breaking point, for what? Again, what is the value, except for the people with a neck brace shooting sky? It is not like tilting screen which you can use to shoot overhead or from low level. If you brought the camera to the eye, it's much more convenient to just tilt the head with the camera.

Your final remark that "Most people who were interested in a good full-featured m43 camera have bought E-M5 a year or more ago." makes a lot of unwarranted assumptions to say the least. I for one am interested in a good full-featured m4/3rds camera, chose not to buy the EM5, and plan to buy the GX7 instead if it is as rumoured. Nor would those who bought the GH3 agree with you, for example. There are different m4/3rd models that are full featured, both Panasonic and Olympus, that members of this forum may have purchased. Some like myself are waiting for the GX7.

See the word "most"? How many have actually bought GH3? I bet much fewer than E-M5, and again, just because E-M5 was much earlier, cheaper and have 5-axis stabilization which is more important for many than mic input and 25 fps.

To each his or her own. I take it that you did buy a EM5 and I hope you enjoy it.

F.

As I think many. GX7 might be great, but a catch-up camera coming late and missing something is not going to be as successful. Again, they might add something substantial yet, I don't know. Or might provide almost E-M5 for $500. But useless gimmicks like battery-draining WiFi and tilting EVF for the same high price are not it (and for the same reason I don't think much about E-P5 either - it's not going to be a success). Again:

1) fast and reliable AF-C with tracking

2) better high ISO (and not unsubstantially, at least 2/3EV)

3) global electronic shutter.

Have you seen any of that in the rumors?

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Sean Nelson
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Re: Is it design of new GX?
In reply to peevee1, Jul 14, 2013

peevee1 wrote:

GX7 might be great, but  ....  useless gimmicks like battery-draining WiFi and tilting EVF for the same high price are not it...

You're making the mistake of thinking that a feature that's not useful to you can't be useful to anyone.   That's clearly not the case.   WiFi is something I find to be very useful because I'm often mounting the camera somewhere to shoot a video and then controlling it remotely.   When I don't use WiFi I just turn it off so that it doesn't have an impact on battery life.

I'm looking for a fairly compact camera that has WiFi, at least a tilting LCD (fully articulated would be ideal) and good 1080p60 video.   The EM-5 fails on two of those counts, but it sounds like this camera could be just what I'm looking for.

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