Crystal Ball Required... Locked

Started Jul 9, 2013 | Discussions
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JackM
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Re: Crystal Ball Required...
In reply to qianp2k, Jul 11, 2013

qianp2k wrote:

I prefer expose normally on shadow or even a bit of ETTR (expose on right) and still can recover most of highlights.

you mean like this?

as-shot

fixed.

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qianp2k
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Re: Crystal Ball Required...
In reply to JackM, Jul 11, 2013

JackM wrote:

qianp2k wrote:

I prefer expose normally on shadow or even a bit of ETTR (expose on right) and still can recover most of highlights.

you mean like this?

Yes.

as-shot

fixed.

Still recoverable. It can be recovered further by applying software GND filter and brush tool in LR. Technically you can use fill-flash that is not a problem at 200mm. Nevertheless my point is that this look better than pulling a dark face with excessive ISO 1600-6400 eq noise/grain and distorted colors.

Similar but birds instead. I gave +2/3 EC on top of Partial metering so totally about +1 EV above 'normal' exposure under Evaluative metering.

+1 EC

+2/3 EC

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King Redshirt
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Re: Crystal Ball Required...
In reply to JackM, Jul 11, 2013

Ya that does get me about the nikon.. the colors look ... over cooked? just too vibrant..

At henrys i took a picture of the red on the price tags with the d800 then the 5dmark 3 and just looking at the back of the screen you could see that the canon's rendition of red was an exact match to the actual price tag.. the nikons was and orangy florescent what ever just not red..

I dont know if thats just the actual LCD screen quality but surely not even close to the original.

I think i want to be a canon guy but im not thrilled by the sensor offering.... I'll pay someone an extra 500 bucks to put a 30mp xtrans chip into the 5dmark 3...lol

Alot of people say the chip isnt everything.. i really dissagree..  I know the lense is supposed to paint the picture... but no... its still the chip...

Sony, Nikon and Canon... didn't figure out to randomize the pixel pattern so they dont have to blur it... sheesh... I think we can all agree that sucked.

Well lets hope Fuji comes out with some kick ass mirrorlesses...mirrorlessi what ever the plural for that is...lol... or DSLRs.

qianp2k
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Re: Crystal Ball Required...
In reply to JackM, Jul 11, 2013

I also saw your samples in page 1.  On my opinion, this sample should have -0.5 EC than your current exposed one while in your #2 sample, I'd give +0.5 or +2/3 EC than your exposed.  Once you have an ideal exposure you can get ideal result from Canon.  Hans Kruse has a good idea in landscape photography to give exposure bracket and pick the most ideal exposed one for processing, the technique I will use.  However I agreed Nikon cameras have more room on an underexposed photo.

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King Redshirt
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Re: I miss your judge for 6D
In reply to sean lancaster, Jul 11, 2013

sean lancaster wrote:

King Redshirt wrote:

And for that NEX having great low light.... just no... if you use that mode that takes like 5-6 jpegs and stiches them together then yes... it will beat my camera phone.. if you leave it in raw.. then no its not as imressive.. yes you can leave the shutter open on a tripod and controll it manually..... but all things being equal on automatic.. camera phone wins.. the raw's looked so noisy and bandy.

Who made the claim that the 3N has great low light performance? And what camera phone are you using to shoot raw (never mind that anyone shooting raw is doing it wrong if they don't post process)? I think perhaps I am the only one to even address this and I merely claimed that it's far better than any camera phone. I'd also make the same claim about any point and shoot with the a 1/3" - 2/3" sensor against the 3N. For that matter, the smaller sensor of the Sony RX100 cannot even be challenged by any camera phone. I suggest a little primer on how sensors impact photography. View the charts and note the sensor sizes. I don't mean to suggest the NEX 3N is optimal at all. In fact, I have an NEX 5N but it's my backup camera as I wanted better low light performance and selected a full frame camera myself (Canon 6D), which is what I now shoot. But I certainly go for the 5N well before my camera phone (and it's a Galaxy Nexus less than a year old) because there's just no comparison if I have both cameras in my possession.

Ya so would I, Thats why i bought the sony 3n for the greater ev value over the nikon1.. then for the hell of it i bought the nikon 1 from costco to compair it.

The Nikon 1 showed tree branches in a park in the shadow of the sun where the sony had the highlights boosted in light room up to 100 percent and still could not catch up.

King Redshirt
New MemberPosts: 10
Re: Crystal Ball Required...
In reply to qianp2k, Jul 11, 2013

qianp2k wrote:

I also saw your samples in page 1.  On my opinion, this sample should have -0.5 EC than your current exposed one while in your #2 sample, I'd give +0.5 or +2/3 EC than your exposed.  Once you have an ideal exposure you can get ideal result from Canon.  Hans Kruse has a good idea in landscape photography to give exposure bracket and pick the most ideal exposed one for processing, the technique I will use.  However I agreed Nikon cameras have more room on an underexposed photo.

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One day ima know what that all means...

DtEW
Senior MemberPosts: 1,802Gear list
Re: I miss your judge for 6D
In reply to King Redshirt, Jul 11, 2013

King Redshirt wrote:

sean lancaster wrote:

King Redshirt wrote:

And for that NEX having great low light.... just no... if you use that mode that takes like 5-6 jpegs and stiches them together then yes... it will beat my camera phone.. if you leave it in raw.. then no its not as imressive.. yes you can leave the shutter open on a tripod and controll it manually..... but all things being equal on automatic.. camera phone wins.. the raw's looked so noisy and bandy.

Who made the claim that the 3N has great low light performance? And what camera phone are you using to shoot raw (never mind that anyone shooting raw is doing it wrong if they don't post process)? I think perhaps I am the only one to even address this and I merely claimed that it's far better than any camera phone. I'd also make the same claim about any point and shoot with the a 1/3" - 2/3" sensor against the 3N. For that matter, the smaller sensor of the Sony RX100 cannot even be challenged by any camera phone. I suggest a little primer on how sensors impact photography. View the charts and note the sensor sizes. I don't mean to suggest the NEX 3N is optimal at all. In fact, I have an NEX 5N but it's my backup camera as I wanted better low light performance and selected a full frame camera myself (Canon 6D), which is what I now shoot. But I certainly go for the 5N well before my camera phone (and it's a Galaxy Nexus less than a year old) because there's just no comparison if I have both cameras in my possession.

Ya so would I, Thats why i bought the sony 3n for the greater ev value over the nikon1.. then for the hell of it i bought the nikon 1 from costco to compair it.

The Nikon 1 showed tree branches in a park in the shadow of the sun where the sony had the highlights boosted in light room up to 100 percent and still could not catch up.

*facepalm*

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JackM
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Re: Crystal Ball Required...
In reply to King Redshirt, Jul 11, 2013

King Redshirt wrote:

Ya that does get me about the nikon.. the colors look ... over cooked? just too vibrant..

At henrys i took a picture of the red on the price tags with the d800 then the 5dmark 3 and just looking at the back of the screen you could see that the canon's rendition of red was an exact match to the actual price tag.. the nikons was and orangy florescent what ever just not red..

Yes, there are some who switch from Nikon to Canon for the colors, especially skin tones.

Well lets hope Fuji comes out with some kick ass mirrorlesses...mirrorlessi what ever the plural for that is...lol... or DSLRs.

Well, the X-Pro1 is pretty kick ass.  It's not a DSLR, so not really for sports/action, but it's kick ass

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JackM
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Re: Crystal Ball Required...
In reply to King Redshirt, Jul 11, 2013

King Redshirt wrote:

qianp2k wrote:

I also saw your samples in page 1. On my opinion, this sample should have -0.5 EC than your current exposed one while in your #2 sample, I'd give +0.5 or +2/3 EC than your exposed. Once you have an ideal exposure you can get ideal result from Canon. Hans Kruse has a good idea in landscape photography to give exposure bracket and pick the most ideal exposed one for processing, the technique I will use. However I agreed Nikon cameras have more room on an underexposed photo.

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One day ima know what that all means...

EC = exposure compensation.  It's a camera function, but you can also apply it after the fact to a raw file.  When you use EC you're telling the camera to override the meter by some fraction of a stop or more.  1 "stop" = twice or half the light, e.g. going from a shutter speed of 1/100 to 1/200 is 1 stop, as is going from f/2.8 to f/4.

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SushiEater
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Re: Crystal Ball Required...
In reply to King Redshirt, Jul 11, 2013

Even if you had 5D3 with Nikon sensor in it you would still read many complaints. Just remember this there will be no perfect camera ever. Period!!!!! There is no way someone can create the camera for every situation out there.

As far as 5D3 vs, D800 vs D600:

I have two of them, 5D3 and D800e.Would not even consider D600 because it uses only SD cards.

Sold 5D2 to buy D800e. Bought 5D3 later. All around as a camera (not IQ for me) 5D3 is a better camera for me yet I use it the least as a backup because the final product is not based on the camera body. To me IQ of D800e is far more superior than 5D3 for what I shoot. It is not the DR that ruins it for me but the severe banding and resolution. High resolution of D800e can hide a lot of things like noise, camera shake, subject movement etc....just like if you look at the picture on the rear LCD and don't see any of it until you zoom in. I shoot a lot in the dim lights so D800e is for me but I was missing the features of 5D3 so much that I had to buy it even if I use it as secondary camera.

If you PM me I will tell you the real difference between the two. I just don't want to start another camera war here.

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JackM
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Re: Crystal Ball Required...
In reply to SushiEater, Jul 12, 2013

SushiEater wrote:

 To me IQ of D800e is far more superior than 5D3 for what I shoot. It is not the DR that ruins it for me but the severe banding

Post an example so we can decide if you are being hyperbolic.  I have seen no severe banding on my 5D3.  But I know how to expose, so that's probably why.

If you PM me I will tell you the real difference between the two. I just don't want to start another camera war here.

Or you just don't want anyone to disagree with you.

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Dan Marchant
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Try them, pick the one you actually LIKE.
In reply to King Redshirt, Jul 12, 2013

Specs are meaningless marketing jargon. A few extra pixels here, a slightly different rendering of red there. Similarly priced cameras will take similar pictures. Decide what you can afford to spend then compare the cameras at that price range (as in pic them up and handle them). Then pic the one that you think feel nicest. You will enjoy using it more and take better pictures because of it.

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Dan
-
f/2.8 is a smaller number than f/22 in the same way that 100 is a smaller number than 20.
I am learning photo graphee - see the results at www.danmarchant.com

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pete zeugma
Regular MemberPosts: 476
Re: Crystal Ball Required...
In reply to King Redshirt, Jul 12, 2013

well, you can either keep on dreeming... or do something really radical... BUY a camera

Fog Maker
Senior MemberPosts: 1,149
Re: Try them, pick the one you actually LIKE.
In reply to Dan Marchant, Jul 12, 2013

Dan Marchant wrote:

Specs are meaningless marketing jargon. A few extra pixels here, a slightly different rendering of red there. Similarly priced cameras will take similar pictures. Decide what you can afford to spend then compare the cameras at that price range (as in pic them up and handle them). Then pic the one that you think feel nicest. You will enjoy using it more and take better pictures because of it.

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Dan
-
f/2.8 is a smaller number than f/22 in the same way that 100 is a smaller number than 20.
I am learning photo graphee - see the results at www.danmarchant.com

Good post.

King Redshirt
New MemberPosts: 10
Re: Crystal Ball Required...
In reply to pete zeugma, Jul 12, 2013

pete zeugma wrote:

well, you can either keep on dreeming... or do something really radical... BUY a camera

Yes its that obvious eh?...lol

I cant wait to get a camera my last camera was an old film pentax.. and I  loved it..

I'm going to make the move very soon, my finances just lined up...

qianp2k
Forum ProPosts: 10,350Gear list
Re: Crystal Ball Required...
In reply to SushiEater, Jul 12, 2013

SushiEater wrote:

Even if you had 5D3 with Nikon sensor in it you would still read many complaints. Just remember this there will be no perfect camera ever. Period!!!!! There is no way someone can create the camera for every situation out there.

As far as 5D3 vs, D800 vs D600:

I have two of them, 5D3 and D800e.Would not even consider D600 because it uses only SD cards.

Sold 5D2 to buy D800e. Bought 5D3 later. All around as a camera (not IQ for me) 5D3 is a better camera for me yet I use it the least as a backup because the final product is not based on the camera body. To me IQ of D800e is far more superior than 5D3 for what I shoot. It is not the DR that ruins it for me but the severe banding and resolution. High resolution of D800e can hide a lot of things like noise, camera shake, subject movement etc....just like if you look at the picture on the rear LCD and don't see any of it until you zoom in. I shoot a lot in the dim lights so D800e is for me but I was missing the features of 5D3 so much that I had to buy it even if I use it as secondary camera.

If you PM me I will tell you the real difference between the two. I just don't want to start another camera war here.

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/3514784

Someone did a side by side comparison between 5D3 and D800E with one of the best prime lenses, Zeiss 2/35mm.  If you pixel peeping I am sure you can see D800E has slight more details at full size (I did own processing by upsampling 5DIII to D800E size).  I don't believe you will see noticeable difference at 20x30" print or even 30x40" print.  In reality if we use Canon and Nikon respective own lenses especially zoom such as between 24-70L/2.8 II vs 24-70G/2.8, 70-200L/2.8 IS II vs 70-200G/2.8 VR, the difference is even smaller and 5D3 may even edge out a bit at edges as Canon lenses are better.

You will only see 5D3 banding on a severely underexposed photo and then you push many stops back where nobody disputes Nikon has a clear advantage there.  However it's a bad technique by using this tactic that you expose on highlight and then pushing deep dark shadows 3-6 stops back under highly contrast scenes that only creates surreal looking, excessive noise/grain in original shadow areas, details lost and possible distorted color tonality.  We have seen enough such extreme-shadow-pushing games ended with crappy photos, just lesser of evil basically.  The far better way is to expose correctly on mid-tone or even a bit of ETTR (expose on right), not only shadow areas are exposed correctly with much more details preserved, much less pushing needed, but also you still can recover highlight mostly as some samples in above we have seen.

In addition Nikon doesn't have better high ISOs than Canon such as between D800 and 5D3, D600 and 6D.  Canon actually edges out Nikon in very high ISOs more noticeably in videos.

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The Davinator
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Re: Crystal Ball Required...
In reply to SushiEater, Jul 12, 2013

SushiEater wrote:

Even if you had 5D3 with Nikon sensor in it you would still read many complaints. Just remember this there will be no perfect camera ever. Period!!!!! There is no way someone can create the camera for every situation out there.

As far as 5D3 vs, D800 vs D600:

I have two of them, 5D3 and D800e.Would not even consider D600 because it uses only SD cards.

Sold 5D2 to buy D800e. Bought 5D3 later. All around as a camera (not IQ for me) 5D3 is a better camera for me yet I use it the least as a backup because the final product is not based on the camera body. To me IQ of D800e is far more superior than 5D3 for what I shoot. It is not the DR that ruins it for me but the severe banding and resolution. High resolution of D800e can hide a lot of things like noise, camera shake, subject movement etc....just like if you look at the picture on the rear LCD and don't see any of it until you zoom in. I shoot a lot in the dim lights so D800e is for me but I was missing the features of 5D3 so much that I had to buy it even if I use it as secondary camera.

If you PM me I will tell you the real difference between the two. I just don't want to start another camera war here.

I have been looking at getting the D800e to replace my D800.  For some of the things I photograph, it would add a bit of peak sharpness.  Where I found the biggest benefit aside from rez, is that when proper technique is used for metering a scene with a large DR requirement, one can meter easily for the highlights and maintain the midtones.  Some mistakingly call this pulling the shadows, but it has nothing to do with that actually.  In a large DR scene, if one exposes for the highlights, the midtones that were around zone 5or 6 are moved down and compressed to zone 2 or so.  In post processing, we can expand those midtones back to zone 5 or 6 while leaving the shadows in zone 0 or 1 exactly where they are.  Moving those midtones back to zone 5 or 6 is about a 4 stop movement.  As the eye  tends to fall on the midtones, this is where one does not want banding.  Currently, the D800 is better suited to this than the 5D3.  The resolution is a nice bump as well as it amounts to about an extra print size.  In other words, a 20x30 from the D800 is about a 16x24 for the 5D3.  This actually matters less to me than the extra DR.

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The Davinator
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Re: Crystal Ball Required...
In reply to JackM, Jul 12, 2013

JackM wrote:

King Redshirt wrote:

Ya that does get me about the nikon.. the colors look ... over cooked? just too vibrant..

At henrys i took a picture of the red on the price tags with the d800 then the 5dmark 3 and just looking at the back of the screen you could see that the canon's rendition of red was an exact match to the actual price tag.. the nikons was and orangy florescent what ever just not red..

Yes, there are some who switch from Nikon to Canon for the colors, especially skin tones.

Jack, I think it is pretty obvious to anyone that knows how to profile their cameras in raw that the skin tones are identical in each.  There have been hundreds of posts on this topic where people simply cannot tell the difference.  Some of the most rabid fanboys I've encountered were fooled.  This is simply not an issue.

Well lets hope Fuji comes out with some kick ass mirrorlesses...mirrorlessi what ever the plural for that is...lol... or DSLRs.

Well, the X-Pro1 is pretty kick ass. It's not a DSLR, so not really for sports/action, but it's kick ass

The X-Pro is truly a well made machine.

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King Redshirt
New MemberPosts: 10
Re: Crystal Ball Required...
In reply to The Davinator, Jul 12, 2013

Xpro-1 is a well made machine...  but...contrast detection...  no thanks....

Xpro-2........... if it has phase detection and weather sealing, and a few more lenses... thats gonna start some serious discussions about the future of canikon...

I love lots about FUJI, just no comparable offerings/support....yet... Maybe one day we will be talkin about SONJI !!

SO why exactly do I keep hearing the statement that Canon has better lenses?

I thought the nikkor 24-70 and 14-24 were pretty good.. what makes the offerings from canon better...?

qianp2k
Forum ProPosts: 10,350Gear list
Re: Crystal Ball Required...
In reply to King Redshirt, Jul 12, 2013

King Redshirt wrote:

Xpro-1 is a well made machine... but...contrast detection... no thanks....

Xpro-2........... if it has phase detection and weather sealing, and a few more lenses... thats gonna start some serious discussions about the future of canikon...

I love lots about FUJI, just no comparable offerings/support....yet... Maybe one day we will be talkin about SONJI !!

SO why exactly do I keep hearing the statement that Canon has better lenses?

I thought the nikkor 24-70 and 14-24 were pretty good.. what makes the offerings from canon better...?

Canon 24-70L/2.8 II is much better than Nikon counterpart 24-70G/2.8.

go down the page on the link below to see how it compared to Nikon counterpart on D800/D3X.  5D3+24-70L II beats D800+24-70G according to DXOMark's test, especially at edges/corners and much less LoCA.

http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/Publications/DxOMark-Reviews/Canon-EF24-70mm-f-2.8L-II-USM-A-Peerless-Performer/Comparisons

http://www.canonrumors.com/2013/01/canon-ef-24-70-f2-8l-ii-is-a-peerless-performer/

Canon also is better in 70-200L/2.8 IS II over Nikon 70-200G/2.8 VR. Canon TS-E lenses are much better.

Nikon 14-24G/2.8 is an excellent UWA zoom that Canon doesn't have a counterpart yet. Canon has 16-35L/2.8 II that is still very good and can use filters while Nikon 14-24G cannot. However rumored Canon 14-24L/2.8 seems coming

http://www.canonrumors.com/tag/ef-14-24-f2-8l/

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