From DSLR to PEN...Why do you stick to LCD?

Started Jul 8, 2013 | Questions
bluelemmy
Contributing MemberPosts: 824Gear list
Like?
Re: From DSLR to PEN...Why do you stick to LCD?
In reply to Grani, Jul 8, 2013

This is simply a matter of personal choice. Some prefer EVF, some don't like it. People can tell you their reasons but they have no relevance to you.

If you find you cannot get on with the LCD monitor, then you need to buy the EVF. That's all there is to it really.

-- hide signature --

David
www.dthorpe.net

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Marla
Veteran MemberPosts: 8,796Gear list
Like?
Re: Jalywol....big difference between VF-2 and VF4?
In reply to jalywol, Jul 9, 2013

jalywol wrote:

Marla wrote:

I noticed you have used both. I just ordered the E-PL5 and own the VF2 which I'm happy with. I'm just curious how the two differ in real life use......

Thanks

HUGE difference. The VF-4 is one of the largest viewing areas I have seen on a camera, and it is bright, not grainy at all, and has great color and responsiveness. I also always used to get a headache from the VF-2 and do not from the the VF-4.....

If there is anyway you can try one, you should. It's really a pretty amazing device (oh, and with the added bonus that it has a lock, so you can't accidentally knock it out of the hot shoe )

-J

Sounds great....I have a question (I'm a bit "technically challenged" for want of a better term). The following statement is included in the description of the VF-4 on the B&H website. I don't understand the statement "not compatible with the Eye Sensor." I guess it makes no difference in the image and usage with the E-PL5, although there can be "degradation in the images" of the older cameras.

B&H Quote

The Olympus PEN E-PL5, E-PL3, E-PL2, E-PL1, E-PL1s, E-PM2, E-PM1, E-P3, E-P2, E-M5 and XZ-2 cameras can be made compatible with the VF-4 with a free firmware update, however the eye sensor is not supported on these cameras .......

and with the E-PL2, E-PL1, E-PL1s, E-P2, XZ-2 cameras, slight image degradation on the viewfinder is noted.

Thanks for your help

Maria

 Marla's gear list:Marla's gear list
Olympus XZ-1 Panasonic Lumix DMC-GF1 Olympus OM-D E-M5 Panasonic Lumix G Vario 14-45mm F3.5-5.6 ASPH OIS Panasonic Leica D Summilux Asph 25mm F1.4 +3 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
jalywol
jalywol MOD
Veteran MemberPosts: 5,418Gear list
Like?
Re: Jalywol....big difference between VF-2 and VF4?
In reply to Marla, Jul 9, 2013

Everything except the EP5 needs a firmware update for the VF-4 to work at all.    I downloaded and installed the update on the EPM2 on the day it came out, and the VF-4 arrived a couple of days later, and worked perfectly.

The eye sensor is a proximity detector that automatically switches from the LCD to the viewfinder when your eye is brought near the viewfinder (like it does on the OMD or on the Panasonic models with built-in viewfinders).  Unfortunately, this feature only works on the EP5, so you have to press the VF button to switch (as on the VF-2) between LCD and VF on all of the other cameras.

Only the older models will have any image quality reduction; the current and immediately prior gen cameras will be fine once they have the firmware update to make the VF-4 work.  In other words, it works just like the VF-2 does, on your camera, but with better IQ.

-J

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
ryan2007
Veteran MemberPosts: 9,296Gear list
Like?
Re: From DSLR to PEN...Why do you stick to LCD?
In reply to Grani, Jul 9, 2013

Grani wrote:

Recently i got my first PEN, a E-P5. I have been playing around for a few days, and find the build quality excellent. I will post a"first impression - with photos" soon....

Some issues will raise, and the first is the viewfinder - or the missing of a VF....

Coming from E-620, I'm not used to a big OVF. But this was the only option for me, and worked fine.

I did not invest in the EV-4 for my P5, and realize that each time I grab the camera to shoot - I lift it up to my face...

I have seen some threads covering pros/cons of LCD vs. EVF, but could some of the only LCD users elaborate a bit - and the please the one of you who comes from an OVF?

What made you stick to LCD only, or what made you throw away the EVF at your PEN?

This would help me before I decide to go or not to go for the 249$ EV-4.... Thanks!

/Stig of Norway

Buy the camera you want and what you determine is the best for you. Think about the system as a whole not just this camera. You will most likely sell this camera body in a couple years any way for something better or find you do not like the system and switch to a completely different manufacture.

If the camera you like only has EVF you will get used to it, if the EVF does not rotate you get used to it. Only you know what your deal breaker for a camera will be.

I know the type of photography I do and what I can overlook and what is a deal breaker. My deal breaker is the camera has to have a hot shoe for external flash and other shoe accessories.

Yes, the OVF is nice and I just switched from the Panasonic GH-3, GX-1 stuff to the Fuji XE-1 and X20 that both have very nice OVF, but that is not why I sold all my MFT's stuff for now and switched.

You also should not look at a camera as an investment. Gold or Silver bullion, mutual funds for the future is an investment.

A camera is like a hammer or screwdriver just a tool to do a job.

A camera is an investment if you are actually depending on it to make a living as a sole source of income and photography is your job. That said, as it stands today no professional photographer is using anything mirror-less as a main camera for commercial needs.

If they make a mirror less DSLR that uses smaller lenses while keeping the sensor size the same, that would be a total winner.

Don't over think it, and don't just read DPREVIEW to make an educated decision. The only DPREVIEWS I read are the negative conclusions about a camera to see if it is that big of a deal.

 ryan2007's gear list:ryan2007's gear list
Fujifilm X-T1
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
baxters
Veteran MemberPosts: 4,271Gear list
Like?
Re: From DSLR to PEN...Why do you stick to LCD?
In reply to Grani, Jul 9, 2013

Grani wrote:

I did not invest in the EV-4 for my P5, and realize that each time I grab the camera to shoot - I lift it up to my face...

I went from an Oly E-510 DSLR to the EPL1 and had the same reaction for few months. At $249, same price as VF4, the VF2 available at the time was low on my priority list, but after 8 month sof PEN ownership, when I had a chance to get a new one discounted to $190, I took it.

The EVF allows me to better focus my legacy 85mm and 135mm lenses. I couldn't shoot my adapted ZD 70-300mm w/o it. While it can help in situations where I cannot see the screen in bright sun, it's not easy to shoot in the noon day sun anyway, so this is less of a advantage.

After two years of EPL1 ownership, I got a nice deal on an EM5 body and use that. With an integrated EVF, I only use that when absolutely necessary. LCD is getting plenty of use. Getting too old to bend down, so the tilt screen and EVF is quite handy in many situations. I also get more stability with wider angle lenses tensioning my camera neck strap against my body than by holding it up to my eyes.

 baxters's gear list:baxters's gear list
Olympus Body Cap Lens 15mm F8.0
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Laszlo13
Contributing MemberPosts: 820Gear list
Like?
Just try it for some time
In reply to Grani, Jul 9, 2013

I was fortunate to make the switch to the E-P1, a while back, which didn't have the option for an EVF.  It did take a little while to get used to, and I too raised the camera to my eye many times.  However, I'm convinced it's the better way to make pictures.  As some others have mentioned, I found that once you're used to it, you compose faster, explore more angles, and spot opportunities better.  Basically, you're not fixated on a tiny portion of the scene.  Imagine asking an artist to paint a picture of a scene, while only looking through a peep hole.

The LCD of the OMD (and presumable E-P5) are much better than the E-P1.  On my OMD, I use the LCD 90% of the time.  I only use the EVF, if in very bright sun, where the sun is shining onto the LCD, and with long telephoto lenses where additional support is helpful.

I'm considering switching to the E-P5, once prices drop.  I'll get the EVF kit - but will leave it off the camera most of the time.

 Laszlo13's gear list:Laszlo13's gear list
Panasonic Lumix DMC-GF5 Panasonic Lumix DMC-GX7
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Albert Ang
Regular MemberPosts: 229Gear list
Like?
3 reasons why I prefer LCD over VF
In reply to Grani, Jul 9, 2013

Previously, I owned Nikon D90 before moving towards m43 (EM5). Initially, EVF feels more natural - however as the time goes, I found LCD is more and more preferable for few reasons:

1. It's easier to engage with the object. Using EVF/VF, I feel my face is hidden behind the camera - it makes the subject feels more uncomfortable and less relax. I guess, it's human nature to feel more relax if we can see the photographer facial reaction

2. It's easier to shoot at above or below eye level so you can get the best angle as possible. If I'm using EVF, it will force me to make weird body posture to get the angle that I want. It's quite tiring to do this whole day - and bad for the knee.

3. Easier to manual-focus using LCD since it's larger. Also, when I'm using EVF to manual focus, I found my eye grow tired quickly since the distance from the eye and EVF is closer than when LCD is used. This closer distance force the eye to move more rapidly and therefore, easier to fatigue. (same analogy when our eyes are tired easily when we read book very close to our eyes)

 Albert Ang's gear list:Albert Ang's gear list
Canon EOS 6D Canon EF 35mm f/2.0 Canon EF 50mm f/1.4 USM Canon EF 85mm f/1.8 USM Canon EF 17-40mm f/4.0L USM +4 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
YouDidntDidYou
Senior MemberPosts: 1,576
Like?
Re: From DSLR to PEN...Why do you stick to LCD?
In reply to highwave, Jul 9, 2013

highwave wrote:

coming from a point and shoot background with a great dislike of VF

I would say 30% EVF and 70% LCD on my OM-D E-M5

Pros of EVF:

- can save battery life

- better to judge exposure in harsh light

- better to hold steady

- better for tracking motion

Pros for LCD:

- a whole lot more flexibility in composition (add to that the tilting LCD and the comparison isn't even funny)

- much more stealthy and inconspicuous

- people are less likely to react to someone shooting off LCD (less intimidation)

- using the LCD to take your shot doesn't isolate you from your surroundings, so you don't feel like you're missing out on the action hiding behind a camera.

- like it or not, shooting with LCD is the more natural thing. Sticking a camera to your face isn't. I don't mean to be mean but people who argue otherwise are from a generation where VF are the only option and think that that's the more natural setting. People like me who never had to use VF disagree.

Again, I really can't emphasis enough how liberating and flexible an LCD is when it comes to shooting. You can really get the shot you want when composing with an LCD. Unlike crouching backwards with an obnoxious flip angle for your back to see your shot of a flower through a VF.

+100 what you said, i've been shooting LCD for 99% of the time since 2008
living life to the Four Thirds!
http://www.YouDidntDidYou.com/blog

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Corkcampbell
Forum ProPosts: 13,353Gear list
Like?
Thanks to Steven and Raymond for the replies and explanations.
In reply to Steven Wandy, Jul 9, 2013

The only thing that I would comment on is that I don't mind the external flash for the OM-D. I have two OM-Ds (and two GH2s for video) and the flashes are just, more or less, permanently attached.

I have taken into consideration your comments on the newer Oly and I may check one out when I visit B&H this week, but, hopefully, I won't like it for some reason because I don't need yet another camera.

Again, thanks.

 Corkcampbell's gear list:Corkcampbell's gear list
Sigma DP2 Merrill Sony Cyber-shot DSC-RX10 Sony Cyber-shot DSC-RX100 III Panasonic Lumix DMC-GH2 Olympus OM-D E-M5 +4 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Impulses
Senior MemberPosts: 1,134Gear list
Like?
Re: From DSLR to PEN...Why do you stick to LCD?
In reply to Tom Axford, Jul 9, 2013

Grani wrote:

I have seen some threads covering pros/cons of LCD vs. EVF, but could some of the only LCD users elaborate a bit - and the please the one of you who comes from an OVF?

What made you stick to LCD only, or what made you throw away the EVF at your PEN?

I have been using LCD only now for over 3 years after many decades of OVF. There are several points I would make in favour of LCDs (similar points have already been made by others).

A general background point that is worth remembering is that the image quality of the shot you take is not changed one iota by the method used for framing the shot.

I find using the LCD is more natural in that it allows me to view the whole scene, as well as just that part of it that is in the LCD. As highwave said, it is rather liberating.

For photographing people, it allows me to interact with them while taking the photo, which is a considerable advantage, particularly with young children.

Using an LCD can be more difficult in some circumstances (e.g. bright sunlight), but that can also be an advantage in an odd sort of way. If you have to put more effort into composing the picture, you often end up with a better picture (rather like using a tripod, which can give much the same sort of benefit).

I find I have developed a different technique for using LCD-only cameras, particularly for holding the camera steady while taking a shot. In fact, for people shots and some action shots I quite often release the shutter while I am looking at the subject rather than at the LCD - which is quite successful provided the camera can be held steady enough.

I'm gonna have to try that sometime... There's probably some visual/spatial reason why it works well (not trying to focus your eyesight on keeping the display steady against what you're seeing or something vs just keeping your hands steady).

There's lots of tricks to using an LCD more effectively, this notion that you have to hold the camera up in the air just because you're using an LCD probably came from the compact p&s world, but it's rather silly. Even the GF series has a tilting LCD now, it's pretty easy to tilt it up, brace it against your body, and shoot while looking down; effectively steadying it just as well as you would while using a VF against your forehead. Won't work for every shot or angle but I'm surprised it's not done more often.

I've never been a big fan of VFs even tho they're clearly the better choice at times, it's just notcomfortable wto use one while wearing glasses IMO (nor do I enjoy the streaks and smudges I'll leave on my glasses). Then again, Oly's recent 16:9 displays bug me nearly as much.

 Impulses's gear list:Impulses's gear list
Panasonic Lumix DMC-GF6 Olympus M.Zuiko Digital ED 9-18mm 1:4.0-5.6 Olympus M.Zuiko Digital 45mm 1:1.8 Panasonic 20mm F1.7 II Panasonic Lumix G Vario HD 12-32mm F3.5-5.6 Mega OIS +19 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
NalaKing
Forum MemberPosts: 76Gear list
Like?
Re: From DSLR to PEN...Why do you stick to LCD?
In reply to Grani, Jul 9, 2013

There are some individuals who actually prefer the LCD in Live view mode than the awesome viewfinder on the Leica M Type-240. Personal preference i reckon.

 NalaKing's gear list:NalaKing's gear list
Sony Alpha 7R Voigtlander 35mm F1.2 Nokton
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Acrill
Senior MemberPosts: 1,431Gear list
Like?
Re: From DSLR to PEN...Why do you stick to LCD?
In reply to bluelemmy, Jul 9, 2013

I use both the EVF and LCD on my E-M5.

EVF for wandering around and taking photos during the day, bright sunlight, trips out of town.

LCD for shooting the baby, friends and family.

 Acrill's gear list:Acrill's gear list
Fujifilm X-T1 Fujifilm XF 35mm F1.4 R Fujifilm XF 14mm F2.8 R
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Marla
Veteran MemberPosts: 8,796Gear list
Like?
Re: Thank you!!!
In reply to jalywol, Jul 9, 2013

jalywol wrote:

Everything except the EP5 needs a firmware update for the VF-4 to work at all. I downloaded and installed the update on the EPM2 on the day it came out, and the VF-4 arrived a couple of days later, and worked perfectly.

The eye sensor is a proximity detector that automatically switches from the LCD to the viewfinder when your eye is brought near the viewfinder (like it does on the OMD or on the Panasonic models with built-in viewfinders). Unfortunately, this feature only works on the EP5, so you have to press the VF button to switch (as on the VF-2) between LCD and VF on all of the other cameras.

Only the older models will have any image quality reduction; the current and immediately prior gen cameras will be fine once they have the firmware update to make the VF-4 work. In other words, it works just like the VF-2 does, on your camera, but with better IQ.

-J

Once again thanks for the clarification.  I will most likely sell my two viewfinders to help pay for this one.  I was surprised the VF-2 still sells for $249 new - although a bit less on Amazon.

-- hide signature --

Maria

 Marla's gear list:Marla's gear list
Olympus XZ-1 Panasonic Lumix DMC-GF1 Olympus OM-D E-M5 Panasonic Lumix G Vario 14-45mm F3.5-5.6 ASPH OIS Panasonic Leica D Summilux Asph 25mm F1.4 +3 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Grani
New MemberPosts: 16Gear list
Like?
Re: From DSLR to PEN...Why do you stick to LCD?
In reply to Impulses, Jul 10, 2013

Impulses wrote:

There's lots of tricks to using an LCD more effectively, this notion that you have to hold the camera up in the air just because you're using an LCD probably came from the compact p&s world, but it's rather silly. Even the GF series has a tilting LCD now, it's pretty easy to tilt it up, brace it against your body, and shoot while looking down; effectively steadying it just as well as you would while using a VF against your forehead. Won't work for every shot or angle but I'm surprised it's not done more often.

Shooting in landscape, I now start to see the benefits. Had a good time out yesterday and shot some street pictures. Yes indeed, keeping the camera at chest height was quite good. This will work for me.

My question now: Do you have any trick for effective LCD use when shooting in portrait?

/Stig

 Grani's gear list:Grani's gear list
Olympus PEN E-P5
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Keyboard shortcuts:
FForum MMy threads