Canon 70D: NOT the camera of the year

Started Jul 2, 2013 | Discussions
Midwest
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Re: Canon 70D: NOT the camera of the year
In reply to Mikhail Tal, Jul 4, 2013

Mikhail Tal wrote:

Midwest wrote:

sdribetahi wrote:

Electronic viewfinders are like looking at the world through a 1989 Atari game.

Which is more than good enough for photo'ing flowers, squirrels, bowls of fruit, demanding stuff like that which prove how great EVF's are - they can keep up with things that aren't moving.

Where do you live that squirrels aren't moving?

Oh please. It becomes apparent why you think EVF's are good enough for any purpose.

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Midwest
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Re: As one who's taken to EVFs big time. . .
In reply to Mikhail Tal, Jul 4, 2013

Mikhail Tal wrote:

Midwest wrote:

Mikhail Tal wrote:

Bob Tullis wrote:

. . . this posture is just stupid, a provocation no different than walking through a crowd and poking individuals with a stick for the fun of it.

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...Bob, NYC
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"Well, sometimes the magic works. . . Sometimes, it doesn't." - Little Big Man
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And many of the postures in response are no different than a being poked with a stick and acting as if blasted by a high-powered bazooka.

Try using intelligence instead of a stick. By the way, who were you before you got a new ID to come around annoying people under?

Oh that's rich, blaming me for other people posting about how annoyed they are. Yeah I have such amazing power as to control their lives and make them post in this thread.

I'm just waiting to see if your brain will overheat like a mirrorless camera's sensor.

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It's nice to say that nice pictures are nice. (sarcasm)

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Midwest
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Re: Canon 70D: NOT the camera of the year
In reply to Mikhail Tal, Jul 4, 2013

Mikhail Tal wrote:

Midwest wrote:

Mikhail Tal wrote:

scorrpio wrote:

Let us know when either Canon or Nikon announces an EVF-only flagship camera.

..or when at a major sporting event, the number of mirrorless cameras in the press box exceeds DSLRs.

Very nice try, selectively exclusing EVF flagship brands such as Sony, Olympus, Panasonic, and Samsung, but the Nikon V2 is the flagship of the Nikon 1 line as well. Thanks for playing and please try again!

You conveniently overlook that the brand is Nikon, not "Nikon 1". Distorting reality to fit your hallucination just is not valid.

Wrong. The Nikon V2 is a flagship camera produced by Nikon.

Whatever. Next time you are watching a hockey game see how many professionals are using that 'flagship' V2 camera to photograph the game.

I'lll give you a hint.... ZERO!!!

Well, I've had my fun, someone else can take over this side of the court.

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Mikhail Tal
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Re: As one who's taken to EVFs big time. . .
In reply to Midwest, Jul 4, 2013

Midwest wrote:

Mikhail Tal wrote:

Midwest wrote:

Mikhail Tal wrote:

Bob Tullis wrote:

. . . this posture is just stupid, a provocation no different than walking through a crowd and poking individuals with a stick for the fun of it.

-- hide signature --

...Bob, NYC
http://www.bobtullis.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bobtullis/
"Well, sometimes the magic works. . . Sometimes, it doesn't." - Little Big Man
.

And many of the postures in response are no different than a being poked with a stick and acting as if blasted by a high-powered bazooka.

Try using intelligence instead of a stick. By the way, who were you before you got a new ID to come around annoying people under?

Oh that's rich, blaming me for other people posting about how annoyed they are. Yeah I have such amazing power as to control their lives and make them post in this thread.

I'm just waiting to see if your brain will overheat like a mirrorless camera's sensor.

-- hide signature --

It's nice to say that nice pictures are nice. (sarcasm)

Funny how you drone on about insecurity and here you are resorting to ridiculous personal attacks while showing your clear OVF prejudice, all because you just can't let it go. Projection much?

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Mahmoud Mousef
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Re: Canon 70D: NOT the camera of the year
In reply to Mikhail Tal, Jul 4, 2013

Mikhail Tal wrote:

Mahmoud Mousef wrote:

Mikhail Tal wrote:

Mahmoud Mousef wrote:

Mikhail Tal wrote:

It doesn't matter if there is a lag if it is small enough so as to be not perceptible to the human eye

Which camera's EVF has imperceptible lag?

Me: Future EVFs will make OVFs obsolete.

You: Which current EVFs do this?

Me: LOL

You wrote this in your first post:

So the 70D may be a nice camera, too bad canon stuck it with an OVF and mirror that the more competitive cameras will soon be able to do without (by soon I mean this fall, like Olympus, Sony, etc.)

Me: I think your concept of how close EVFs are from totally replacing optical viewfinders is highly optimistic, and that's a huge understatement.

I like how you tried to cleverly shift the point of contention from what I said (that Olympus and Sony cameras will launch cameras with functionally comparable or superior EVFs compared to current OVFs) to what you said (that OVFs will be replaced entirely). Solid effort there.
And unless you've seen and tested out the coming EVFs in question, your guess is no better than mine.

Hilarity. Read your first post again and see if my response was unreasonable or "shifting the point of contention". You can understand exactly what you said and the way it would be interpreted, but you're playing dumb now. A fine effort.

Let me pick out the gems:

"Great, so why keep the mirror and OVF at all?"

"This fall's newest generation of EVFs are surely going to drive the lastnail in the OVF coffin and turn it into a complete anacrhonism, making the 70D technologically obsolete just a few months in."

"It has been well documented that OVFs are on the verge of going the way of film, useful only for nostalgia and people who don't care about utility and functionality."

Last nail in the OVF coffin? I'm sure you can weasel your way out of this and say "oh sorry officer, I didn't mean it the way you interpreted it...I swear!"

...but it's clear what your goals are with posts like this. What is UNCLEAR is your exact point, which seems to be changing with every response, one weasel response at a time.

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Sonyshine
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Re: You've got it backwards
In reply to Lee Jay, Jul 4, 2013

I think you may well be right Mikhail. Interesting times ahead..... 

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Mikhail Tal
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Re: Canon 70D: NOT the camera of the year
In reply to Mahmoud Mousef, Jul 4, 2013

Mahmoud Mousef wrote:

Mikhail Tal wrote:

Mahmoud Mousef wrote:

Mikhail Tal wrote:

Mahmoud Mousef wrote:

Mikhail Tal wrote:

It doesn't matter if there is a lag if it is small enough so as to be not perceptible to the human eye

Which camera's EVF has imperceptible lag?

Me: Future EVFs will make OVFs obsolete.

You: Which current EVFs do this?

Me: LOL

You wrote this in your first post:

So the 70D may be a nice camera, too bad canon stuck it with an OVF and mirror that the more competitive cameras will soon be able to do without (by soon I mean this fall, like Olympus, Sony, etc.)

Me: I think your concept of how close EVFs are from totally replacing optical viewfinders is highly optimistic, and that's a huge understatement.

I like how you tried to cleverly shift the point of contention from what I said (that Olympus and Sony cameras will launch cameras with functionally comparable or superior EVFs compared to current OVFs) to what you said (that OVFs will be replaced entirely). Solid effort there.
And unless you've seen and tested out the coming EVFs in question, your guess is no better than mine.

Hilarity. Read your first post again and see if my response was unreasonable or "shifting the point of contention". You can understand exactly what you said and the way it would be interpreted, but you're playing dumb now. A fine effort.

Let me pick out the gems:

"Great, so why keep the mirror and OVF at all?"

"This fall's newest generation of EVFs are surely going to drive the lastnail in the OVF coffin and turn it into a complete anacrhonism, making the 70D technologically obsolete just a few months in."

"It has been well documented that OVFs are on the verge of going the way of film, useful only for nostalgia and people who don't care about utility and functionality."

Last nail in the OVF coffin? I'm sure you can weasel your way out of this and say "oh sorry officer, I didn't mean it the way you interpreted it...I swear!"

...but it's clear what your goals are with posts like this. What is UNCLEAR is your exact point, which seems to be changing with every response, one weasel response at a time.

Just because OVFs will become a technological anachronism doesn't mean they will be "replaced." Film cameras and vinyl records are anachronisms and they certainly haven't been replaced. They just deliver inferior quality compared to current technology.

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nzmacro
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Does it go click !!
In reply to Mikhail Tal, Jul 4, 2013

If it has a shutter that opens and closes,  I can use it, no problem.

Danny.

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inasir1971
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Re: LOL OVF people
In reply to Mikhail Tal, Jul 4, 2013

Mikhail Tal wrote:

Me: Future EVFs will be superior to OVFs

OVF people: Wrong, because present EVFs are not superior to OVFs in my opinion.

Me: Flawless logic...

You: too much time, go out and enjoy your 4th July

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rjjr
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Don't Feed The Troll.
In reply to Mikhail Tal, Jul 4, 2013
No text.
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Midwest
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Re: As one who's taken to EVFs big time. . .
In reply to Mikhail Tal, Jul 4, 2013

Mikhail Tal wrote:

Midwest wrote:

Mikhail Tal wrote:

Midwest wrote:

Mikhail Tal wrote:

Bob Tullis wrote:

. . . this posture is just stupid, a provocation no different than walking through a crowd and poking individuals with a stick for the fun of it.

-- hide signature --

...Bob, NYC
http://www.bobtullis.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bobtullis/
"Well, sometimes the magic works. . . Sometimes, it doesn't." - Little Big Man
.

And many of the postures in response are no different than a being poked with a stick and acting as if blasted by a high-powered bazooka.

Try using intelligence instead of a stick. By the way, who were you before you got a new ID to come around annoying people under?

Oh that's rich, blaming me for other people posting about how annoyed they are. Yeah I have such amazing power as to control their lives and make them post in this thread.

I'm just waiting to see if your brain will overheat like a mirrorless camera's sensor.

-- hide signature --

It's nice to say that nice pictures are nice. (sarcasm)

Funny how you drone on about insecurity and here you are resorting to ridiculous personal attacks while showing your clear OVF prejudice, all because you just can't let it go. Projection much?

I am not the one who created a new user ID specially to start this thread. You are. Amnesia much? Evidently. And insecure as all get out over your camera, which can only be vindicated if another kind stops being made because what you have should be good enough for everyone.

Here is a clue: your EVF is NOT good enough to dream of replacing my OVF.

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tecnoworld
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Re: Canon 70D: NOT the camera of the year
In reply to Mikhail Tal, Jul 4, 2013

I think the future are actually hybrid vf, on mirrorless cameras.

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peevee1
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Re: Canon 70D: NOT the camera of the year
In reply to Mikhail Tal, Jul 4, 2013

Mikhail Tal wrote:

Let's assume the best case scenario, that Canon's new dual pixel AF system works just as well in live view as it does with the mirror down. Great, so why keep the mirror and OVF at all? This fall's newest generation of EVFs are surely going to drive the lastnail in the OVF coffin and turn it into a complete anacrhonism, making the 70D technologically obsolete just a few months in. It has been well documented that OVFs are on the verge of going the way of film, useful only for nostalgia and people who don't care about utility and functionality. So the 70D may be a nice camera, too bad canon stuck it with an OVF and mirror that the more competitive cameras will soon be able to do without (by soon I mean this fall, like Olympus, Sony, etc.)

Image you see through Olympus VF-4 is already higher than the OVF in 1Dx, and at 2.4 mpix, beyond resolution problems and of course any brightness problems with any lens in any light. APS-C OVFs need not apply.

It truly sound like film-digital transitions now, and arguments are the same too.

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peevee1
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Re: Canon 70D: NOT the camera of the year
In reply to Biggs23, Jul 4, 2013

Biggs23 wrote:

Rod McD wrote:

Hi,

Let's use your approach and say that in the best case scenario EVF resolution catches up with OVF resolution. The issue will remain that EVFs exhibit lags where OVFs are instantaneous. It simply takes milliseconds of processing time to capture the image, process it, relay it and display it in the EVF. So for tasks like sports, birds in flight - anything that needs critical timing, the OVF is likely to be faster - probably always.

Not probably, 100% for sure.

OVF = the speed of light.

EVF = the speed of light + processing time.

Ergo, an OVF will ALWAYS be faster, period.

Your reaction, about 0.25 seconds, is much slower than both, so it does not matter - if you want to shoot action, you have to anticipate anyway, and the amount of anticipation varies by insignificant percentage (smaller percentage than the variability caused by different shutter release lags in different cameras).

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seilerbird666
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Re: Canon 70D: NOT the camera of the year
In reply to Mikhail Tal, Jul 4, 2013

Mikhail Tal wrote:

Just because OVFs will become a technological anachronism doesn't mean they will be "replaced." Film cameras and vinyl records are anachronisms and they certainly haven't been replaced. They just deliver inferior quality compared to current technology.

I hate to break the news to you but both film cameras and vinyl records have been completely replaced. A long time ago...

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peevee1
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Re: Canon 70D: NOT the camera of the year
In reply to sdribetahi, Jul 4, 2013

sdribetahi wrote:

Electronic viewfinders are like looking at the world through a 1989 Atari game.

Yeah, the "facts" like this is what is based your opinion on. Let's see.

1989 Atari gamehas 16 kpix screen resolution. Modern OVFs (Sony, Olympus) have 2.4 Mpix. Same thing, right?

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peevee1
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Re: Canon 70D: NOT the camera of the year
In reply to scorrpio, Jul 4, 2013

scorrpio wrote:

..or when at a major sporting event, the number of mirrorless cameras in the press box exceeds DSLRs.

Don't they now? I mean TV/video?

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peevee1
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Re: You've got it backwards
In reply to Lee Jay, Jul 4, 2013

ljfinger wrote:

Mikhail Tal wrote:

Let's assume the best case scenario, that Canon's new dual pixel AF system works just as well in live view as it does with the mirror down. Great, so why keep the mirror and OVF at all?

Zero lag, zero battery use, near-infinite dynamic range, near-infinite color gamut, better resolution.

Are you talking about film?

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peevee1
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Re: LOL OVF people
In reply to Midwest, Jul 4, 2013

Midwest wrote:

tkbslc wrote:

Mikhail Tal wrote:

Me: Future EVFs will be superior to OVFs

OVF people: Wrong, because present EVFs are not superior to OVFs in my opinion.

Me: Flawless logic...

Your logic is flawed because you are talking about the "Camera of the Year", which is the present, not the future.

Also the presumption that future EVFs will be better is based on faith, whereas OVF superiority is currently observed.

The electric cars of today are faster, but travel NO FURTHER on a charge than the electric car your great grandpa could buy one hundred years ago. Turn on the heat or A/C and lights and watch the range drop to half that much.

Your grandpa had access to Lithium-Ion batteries 100 years ago? Really? On what planet is this? Is it on the same planet where 0.01-0.02s of EVF lag tucked on top of 0.3-0.4s reaction time+shutter lag makes EVFs somehow unusable?  Oh horror, 0.31-0.42s total lag vs 0.3-0.4s lag!

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Sonyshine
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Re: Canon 70D: NOT the camera of the year
In reply to Biggs23, Jul 4, 2013

Biggs23 wrote:

Rod McD wrote:

Hi,

Let's use your approach and say that in the best case scenario EVF resolution catches up with OVF resolution. The issue will remain that EVFs exhibit lags where OVFs are instantaneous. It simply takes milliseconds of processing time to capture the image, process it, relay it and display it in the EVF. So for tasks like sports, birds in flight - anything that needs critical timing, the OVF is likely to be faster - probably always.

Not probably, 100% for sure.

OVF = the speed of light.

EVF = the speed of light + processing time.

Ergo, an OVF will ALWAYS be faster, period.

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Any opinions I express are my own and do not represent DPReview. Have a good one and God bless!

Very true but can your eye see the millisecond difference?

Mine sure can't!  

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