Canon 70D: NOT the camera of the year

Started 9 months ago | Discussions
Mikhail Tal
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Re: Is this why TV can't follow golf balls in flight?
In reply to Midwest, 9 months ago

Midwest wrote:

Just Having Fun wrote:

Rod McD wrote:

Hi,

It simply takes milliseconds of processing time to capture the image, process it, relay it and display it in the EVF. So for tasks like sports, birds in flight - anything that needs critical timing, the OVF is likely to be faster - probably always.

And so TV cameras will not be able to follow golf balls, hockey pucks, baseballs, etc. because they all use EVFs. Oh, wait...they have been doing that for years.

TV cameras don't have to compose, sharply focus on and then capture an image of that golf ball or hockey puck. This argument is about as fatally flawed as a screen door on a submarine.

The last hockey game I watched on TV was pretty well composed and the puck looked pretty sharply focused to me, and I saw the captured image on my television.

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Midwest
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Re: LOL OVF people
In reply to tkbslc, 9 months ago

tkbslc wrote:

Mikhail Tal wrote:

Me: Future EVFs will be superior to OVFs

OVF people: Wrong, because present EVFs are not superior to OVFs in my opinion.

Me: Flawless logic...

Your logic is flawed because you are talking about the "Camera of the Year", which is the present, not the future.

Also the presumption that future EVFs will be better is based on faith, whereas OVF superiority is currently observed.

The electric cars of today are faster, but travel NO FURTHER on a charge than the electric car your great grandpa could buy one hundred years ago. Turn on the heat or A/C and lights and watch the range drop to half that much.

The laws of physics are a tough obstacle to get around, it seems.

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tkbslc
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Re: As one who's taken to EVFs big time. . .
In reply to Mikhail Tal, 9 months ago

Mikhail Tal wrote:

Bob Tullis wrote:

. . . this posture is just stupid, a provocation no different than walking through a crowd and poking individuals with a stick for the fun of it.

-- hide signature --

...Bob, NYC
http://www.bobtullis.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bobtullis/
"Well, sometimes the magic works. . . Sometimes, it doesn't." - Little Big Man
.

And many of the postures in response are no different than a being poked with a stick and acting as if blasted by a high-powered bazooka.

I think your sensitivity is so high that you perceive a gentle nudge back as a bazooka shell.

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Mikhail Tal
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Re: Canon 70D: NOT the camera of the year
In reply to Mahmoud Mousef, 9 months ago

Mahmoud Mousef wrote:

Mikhail Tal wrote:

Mahmoud Mousef wrote:

Mikhail Tal wrote:

It doesn't matter if there is a lag if it is small enough so as to be not perceptible to the human eye

Which camera's EVF has imperceptible lag?

Me: Future EVFs will make OVFs obsolete.

You: Which current EVFs do this?

Me: LOL

You wrote this in your first post:

So the 70D may be a nice camera, too bad canon stuck it with an OVF and mirror that the more competitive cameras will soon be able to do without (by soon I mean this fall, like Olympus, Sony, etc.)

Me: I think your concept of how close EVFs are from totally replacing optical viewfinders is highly optimistic, and that's a huge understatement.

I like how you tried to cleverly shift the point of contention from what I said (that Olympus and Sony cameras will launch cameras with functionally comparable or superior EVFs compared to current OVFs) to what you said (that OVFs will be replaced entirely). Solid effort there.
And unless you've seen and tested out the coming EVFs in question, your guess is no better than mine.

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Mikhail Tal
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Re: As one who's taken to EVFs big time. . .
In reply to tkbslc, 9 months ago

tkbslc wrote:

Mikhail Tal wrote:

Bob Tullis wrote:

. . . this posture is just stupid, a provocation no different than walking through a crowd and poking individuals with a stick for the fun of it.

-- hide signature --

...Bob, NYC
http://www.bobtullis.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bobtullis/
"Well, sometimes the magic works. . . Sometimes, it doesn't." - Little Big Man
.

And many of the postures in response are no different than a being poked with a stick and acting as if blasted by a high-powered bazooka.

I think your sensitivity is so high that you perceive a gentle nudge back as a bazooka shell.

Kind of like how the light-gathering sensitivity of an EVF is much higher than that of an OVF, right?

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Midwest
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Re: Excellent live view AF + OVF with excellent AF = win
In reply to Mikhail Tal, 9 months ago

Mikhail Tal wrote:

tkbslc wrote:

Most people don't want an EVF after they've experienced zero lag OVFs.

Most people don't want a mirror after they've experienced mirrorless.

My first several cameras were all 'mirrorless' with an EVF. When I got my first DSLR I realized what it was that the OVF people were taking about.

I wonder WHY it is that the mirrorless people are so insecure about their cameras they have to keep preaching that others' cameras will be obsolete soon, yada yada, blah blah woof woof.

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Midwest
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Re: Canon 70D: NOT the camera of the year
In reply to sdribetahi, 9 months ago

sdribetahi wrote:

Electronic viewfinders are like looking at the world through a 1989 Atari game.

Which is more than good enough for photo'ing flowers, squirrels, bowls of fruit, demanding stuff like that which prove how great EVF's are - they can keep up with things that aren't moving.

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Midwest
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Re: What's the resolution of an OVF? (n/t)
In reply to 57LowRider, 9 months ago

57LowRider wrote:

The resolution of an OVF USER is to not be suckered into viewing the world through a tiny tv screen.

-- hide signature --

It's nice to say that nice pictures are nice. (sarcasm)

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Midwest
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Re: As one who's taken to EVFs big time. . .
In reply to tkbslc, 9 months ago

tkbslc wrote:

Bob Tullis wrote:

. . . this posture is just stupid, a provocation no different than walking through a crowd and poking individuals with a stick for the fun of it.

I think that underlined part is a good summary of the OP.

Close... he isn't doing it for fun though. He's trying to handle his own insecurity about EVF's

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Midwest
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Re: As one who's taken to EVFs big time. . .
In reply to Mikhail Tal, 9 months ago

Mikhail Tal wrote:

Bob Tullis wrote:

. . . this posture is just stupid, a provocation no different than walking through a crowd and poking individuals with a stick for the fun of it.

-- hide signature --

...Bob, NYC
http://www.bobtullis.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bobtullis/
"Well, sometimes the magic works. . . Sometimes, it doesn't." - Little Big Man
.

And many of the postures in response are no different than a being poked with a stick and acting as if blasted by a high-powered bazooka.

Try using intelligence instead of a stick. By the way, who were you before you got a new ID to come around annoying people under?

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Lee Jay
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Re: As one who's taken to EVFs big time. . .
In reply to Mikhail Tal, 9 months ago

tkbslc wrote:

Mikhail Tal wrote:

Bob Tullis wrote:

. . . this posture is just stupid, a provocation no different than walking through a crowd and poking individuals with a stick for the fun of it.

-- hide signature --

...Bob, NYC
http://www.bobtullis.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bobtullis/
"Well, sometimes the magic works. . . Sometimes, it doesn't." - Little Big Man
.

And many of the postures in response are no different than a being poked with a stick and acting as if blasted by a high-powered bazooka.

I think your sensitivity is so high that you perceive a gentle nudge back as a bazooka shell.

Kind of like how the light-gathering sensitivity of an EVF is much higher than that of an OVF, right?

Wrong.
--
Lee Jay
(see profile for equipment)

 Lee Jay's gear list:Lee Jay's gear list
Canon ELPH 500 HS Canon PowerShot SX260 HS Canon EOS 5D Canon EOS 20D Canon EOS 550D +23 more
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Midwest
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Re: As one who's taken to EVFs big time. . .
In reply to Mikhail Tal, 9 months ago

Mikhail Tal wrote:

tkbslc wrote:

Mikhail Tal wrote:

Bob Tullis wrote:

. . . this posture is just stupid, a provocation no different than walking through a crowd and poking individuals with a stick for the fun of it.

-- hide signature --

...Bob, NYC
http://www.bobtullis.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bobtullis/
"Well, sometimes the magic works. . . Sometimes, it doesn't." - Little Big Man
.

And many of the postures in response are no different than a being poked with a stick and acting as if blasted by a high-powered bazooka.

I think your sensitivity is so high that you perceive a gentle nudge back as a bazooka shell.

Kind of like how the light-gathering sensitivity of an EVF is much higher than that of an OVF, right?

I didn't know that EVF's gather light, but they seem to attract nitwits.

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Midwest
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Re: Canon 70D: NOT the camera of the year
In reply to scorrpio, 9 months ago

scorrpio wrote:

Let us know when either Canon or Nikon announces an EVF-only flagship camera.

..or when at a major sporting event, the number of mirrorless cameras in the press box exceeds DSLRs.

Make it easy on him - let's say 'when the number of mirrorless cameras in the press box exceeds 3% of the DSLR's.' Or when he has posted even a single photo to his own gallery here.

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Lee Jay
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Re: Is this why TV can't follow golf balls in flight?
In reply to Just Having Fun, 9 months ago

Rod McD wrote:

Hi,

It simply takes milliseconds of processing time to capture the image, process it, relay it and display it in the EVF.  So for tasks like sports, birds in flight - anything that needs critical timing, the OVF is likely to be faster - probably always.

And so TV cameras will not be able to follow golf balls, hockey pucks, baseballs, etc. because they all use EVFs.  Oh, wait...they have been doing that for years. 

They do it by framing loosely which works for video but not for stills.
--
Lee Jay
(see profile for equipment)

 Lee Jay's gear list:Lee Jay's gear list
Canon ELPH 500 HS Canon PowerShot SX260 HS Canon EOS 5D Canon EOS 20D Canon EOS 550D +23 more
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Midwest
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Re: Canon 70D: NOT the camera of the year
In reply to Mikhail Tal, 9 months ago

Mikhail Tal wrote:

scorrpio wrote:

Let us know when either Canon or Nikon announces an EVF-only flagship camera.

..or when at a major sporting event, the number of mirrorless cameras in the press box exceeds DSLRs.

Very nice try, selectively exclusing EVF flagship brands such as Sony, Olympus, Panasonic, and Samsung, but the Nikon V2 is the flagship of the Nikon 1 line as well. Thanks for playing and please try again!

You conveniently overlook that the brand is Nikon, not "Nikon 1". Distorting reality to fit your hallucination just is not valid.

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Midwest
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Re: Is this why TV can't follow golf balls in flight?
In reply to Mikhail Tal, 9 months ago

Mikhail Tal wrote:

Midwest wrote:

Just Having Fun wrote:

Rod McD wrote:

Hi,

It simply takes milliseconds of processing time to capture the image, process it, relay it and display it in the EVF. So for tasks like sports, birds in flight - anything that needs critical timing, the OVF is likely to be faster - probably always.

And so TV cameras will not be able to follow golf balls, hockey pucks, baseballs, etc. because they all use EVFs. Oh, wait...they have been doing that for years.

TV cameras don't have to compose, sharply focus on and then capture an image of that golf ball or hockey puck. This argument is about as fatally flawed as a screen door on a submarine.

The last hockey game I watched on TV was pretty well composed and the puck looked pretty sharply focused to me

Which I would say explains a whole lot.

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Midwest
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Re: Canon 70D: NOT the camera of the year
In reply to Mikhail Tal, 9 months ago

Mikhail Tal wrote:

Midwest wrote:

Ed B wrote:

Mikhail Tal wrote:

Let's assume the best case scenario, that Canon's new dual pixel AF system works just as well in live view as it does with the mirror down. Great, so why keep the mirror and OVF at all? This fall's newest generation of EVFs are surely going to drive the lastnail in the OVF coffin and turn it into a complete anacrhonism, making the 70D technologically obsolete just a few months in. It has been well documented that OVFs are on the verge of going the way of film, useful only for nostalgia and people who don't care about utility and functionality. So the 70D may be a nice camera, too bad canon stuck it with an OVF and mirror that the more competitive cameras will soon be able to do without (by soon I mean this fall, like Olympus, Sony, etc.)

You're going to get some disagreement on this post.

It gets so wearisome trying to explain to fruit-bowl and flower shooters why a TTL OVF is both necessary and superior to mirrorless, at least for those of us who aren't photo'ing things that just stand in place.

As always a case of insecurity brought on by 'when they stop making that other kind of camera, it will prove that mine is the best kind' syndrome.

No, it is just a case of people like you not having reading comprehension, it's like if you said that land line phones were superior to mobile phones in 1989 because mobile phones were oversized. All of the significant ways in which OVFs can currently construed as functionally superior to EVFs are just a short matter of time from no longer qualifying as superior. That's where we can all see the insecurity of people who deny the inexorable tidal wave of mirrorless cameras drowning the OVF diehards in a wake of anachronism.

More nonsense which has no bearing on reality.

Is there a beanie and pennant that goes with membership in the mirrorless booster club? Or do you just get pamphlets to distribute door-to-door to spread your salvation?

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Mikhail Tal
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Re: Canon 70D: NOT the camera of the year
In reply to Midwest, 9 months ago

Midwest wrote:

sdribetahi wrote:

Electronic viewfinders are like looking at the world through a 1989 Atari game.

Which is more than good enough for photo'ing flowers, squirrels, bowls of fruit, demanding stuff like that which prove how great EVF's are - they can keep up with things that aren't moving.

Where do you live that squirrels aren't moving?

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Mikhail Tal
Regular MemberPosts: 281
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Re: Canon 70D: NOT the camera of the year
In reply to Midwest, 9 months ago

Midwest wrote:

Mikhail Tal wrote:

scorrpio wrote:

Let us know when either Canon or Nikon announces an EVF-only flagship camera.

..or when at a major sporting event, the number of mirrorless cameras in the press box exceeds DSLRs.

Very nice try, selectively exclusing EVF flagship brands such as Sony, Olympus, Panasonic, and Samsung, but the Nikon V2 is the flagship of the Nikon 1 line as well. Thanks for playing and please try again!

You conveniently overlook that the brand is Nikon, not "Nikon 1". Distorting reality to fit your hallucination just is not valid.

Wrong. The Nikon V2 is a flagship camera produced by Nikon.

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Mikhail Tal
Regular MemberPosts: 281
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Re: As one who's taken to EVFs big time. . .
In reply to Midwest, 9 months ago

Midwest wrote:

Mikhail Tal wrote:

Bob Tullis wrote:

. . . this posture is just stupid, a provocation no different than walking through a crowd and poking individuals with a stick for the fun of it.

-- hide signature --

...Bob, NYC
http://www.bobtullis.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bobtullis/
"Well, sometimes the magic works. . . Sometimes, it doesn't." - Little Big Man
.

And many of the postures in response are no different than a being poked with a stick and acting as if blasted by a high-powered bazooka.

Try using intelligence instead of a stick. By the way, who were you before you got a new ID to come around annoying people under?

Oh that's rich, blaming me for other people posting about how annoyed they are. Yeah I have such amazing power as to control their lives and make them post in this thread.

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