Canon 70D: NOT the camera of the year

Started Jul 2, 2013 | Discussions
Mikhail Tal
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Canon 70D: NOT the camera of the year
Jul 2, 2013

Let's assume the best case scenario, that Canon's new dual pixel AF system works just as well in live view as it does with the mirror down. Great, so why keep the mirror and OVF at all? This fall's newest generation of EVFs are surely going to drive the lastnail in the OVF coffin and turn it into a complete anacrhonism, making the 70D technologically obsolete just a few months in. It has been well documented that OVFs are on the verge of going the way of film, useful only for nostalgia and people who don't care about utility and functionality. So the 70D may be a nice camera, too bad canon stuck it with an OVF and mirror that the more competitive cameras will soon be able to do without (by soon I mean this fall, like Olympus, Sony, etc.)

Canon EOS 70D
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Ed B
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Re: Canon 70D: NOT the camera of the year
In reply to Mikhail Tal, Jul 2, 2013

Mikhail Tal wrote:

Let's assume the best case scenario, that Canon's new dual pixel AF system works just as well in live view as it does with the mirror down. Great, so why keep the mirror and OVF at all? This fall's newest generation of EVFs are surely going to drive the lastnail in the OVF coffin and turn it into a complete anacrhonism, making the 70D technologically obsolete just a few months in. It has been well documented that OVFs are on the verge of going the way of film, useful only for nostalgia and people who don't care about utility and functionality. So the 70D may be a nice camera, too bad canon stuck it with an OVF and mirror that the more competitive cameras will soon be able to do without (by soon I mean this fall, like Olympus, Sony, etc.)

You're going to get some disagreement on this post.

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Just Having Fun
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If IQ is the same as the T2i, I agree
In reply to Mikhail Tal, Jul 3, 2013

The only report I have seen says the jpeg NR is improved at higher ISOs, but the output is the same as the old sensor from the T2i.  If that is true, then I don't see much of a reason to buy this camera.

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hjr13
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Re: Canon 70D: NOT the camera of the year
In reply to Mikhail Tal, Jul 3, 2013

Mikhail Tal wrote:

Let's assume the best case scenario, that Canon's new dual pixel AF system works just as well in live view as it does with the mirror down. Great, so why keep the mirror and OVF at all? This fall's newest generation of EVFs are surely going to drive the lastnail in the OVF coffin and turn it into a complete anacrhonism, making the 70D technologically obsolete just a few months in. It has been well documented that OVFs are on the verge of going the way of film, useful only for nostalgia and people who don't care about utility and functionality. So the 70D may be a nice camera, too bad canon stuck it with an OVF and mirror that the more competitive cameras will soon be able to do without (by soon I mean this fall, like Olympus, Sony, etc.)

Wow, first post and you have the future of cameras all figured out. It is going to be a long time, if ever that evf's replace ovf's in top end cameras. It might on lower end cameras,, but even then a lot  of people wouldn't be happy.

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Mahmoud Mousef
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Re: Canon 70D: NOT the camera of the year
In reply to Mikhail Tal, Jul 3, 2013

Mikhail Tal wrote:

It has been well documented that OVFs are on the verge of going the way of film, useful only for nostalgia and people who don't care about utility and functionality.

I'm constantly amazed at how many people dismiss optical viewfinders and wonder if their eyes are more magical than mine?

I have yet to see one electronic viewfinder that comes close to the dynamic range and refresh rate (...) of an optical viewfinder. The tiniest nuances under low light are revealed with an optical viewfinder, whereas an electronic one cloak it in a sea of black. Gaining up is also problematic half the time, since often it can gain up too much and lose detail in many situations.

Yes, I love electronic viewfinders too, but for different reasons (flexibility to put anything on the screen, the ability to magnify a section to show what's in focus under good light) but for everything else, I have yet to see one electronic viewfinder come close to capturing the dynamic range of a half-decent (or cheap) optical viewfinder found in commodity hardware.

I have tried various mirrorless cameras and have yet to prefer one electronic viewfinder for the best image of the actual scene. The most recent mirrorless camera I've tried is the Nikon V1.

As far as I'm aware, electronic viewfinders have a lot of growing up to do. So your comment about utility and funtionality rings very true to me, except I would apply that criticism to electronic viewfinders (!).

I guess it depends on what type of shooting you do. Daylight stuff is normally OK with electronic viewfinders. Low-light and fast action stuff is much more preferable to me with an optical viewfinder.

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Rod McD
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Re: Canon 70D: NOT the camera of the year
In reply to Mikhail Tal, Jul 3, 2013

Hi,

Let's use your approach and say that in the best case scenario EVF resolution catches up with OVF resolution.  The issue will remain that EVFs exhibit lags where OVFs are instantaneous.  It simply takes milliseconds of processing time to capture the image, process it, relay it and display it in the EVF.  So for tasks like sports, birds in flight - anything that needs critical timing, the OVF is likely to be faster - probably always.

Now before anyone jumps me as pro DSLR and anti-mirror-less, I'm not.  I own both - I use a DSLR and I'm a fan of compact high IQ cameras. The future is both EVF and OVF.   Either/or threads are yesterdays debate.  It's horses for courses.  People will buy the camera that suits their needs.  If you read across the forums, you will see that many people own both.  Choice is good.  It's an innovative period and we as photographers are blessed with more choice than we've probably ever had.  Good!

I'm not Canon DSLR owner, but to be fair, give the 70D an opportunity to be evaluated on its merits rather than using your first post to be negative before even one has been sold.

Rod

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Peter A. Stavrakoglou
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Re: Canon 70D: NOT the camera of the year
In reply to Mikhail Tal, Jul 3, 2013

I've not seen one EVF that can equal an OVF in a DSLR.  I'll gladly take a camera with an OVF and not have to deal with lag.

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Biggs23
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Re: Canon 70D: NOT the camera of the year
In reply to Rod McD, Jul 3, 2013

Rod McD wrote:

Hi,

Let's use your approach and say that in the best case scenario EVF resolution catches up with OVF resolution. The issue will remain that EVFs exhibit lags where OVFs are instantaneous. It simply takes milliseconds of processing time to capture the image, process it, relay it and display it in the EVF. So for tasks like sports, birds in flight - anything that needs critical timing, the OVF is likely to be faster - probably always.

Not probably, 100% for sure.

OVF = the speed of light.

EVF = the speed of light + processing time.

Ergo, an OVF will ALWAYS be faster, period.

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Just Having Fun
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Is this why TV can't follow golf balls in flight?
In reply to Rod McD, Jul 3, 2013

Rod McD wrote:

Hi,

It simply takes milliseconds of processing time to capture the image, process it, relay it and display it in the EVF.  So for tasks like sports, birds in flight - anything that needs critical timing, the OVF is likely to be faster - probably always.

And so TV cameras will not be able to follow golf balls, hockey pucks, baseballs, etc. because they all use EVFs.  Oh, wait...they have been doing that for years. 

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RedFox88
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so you join today to post this?
In reply to Mikhail Tal, Jul 3, 2013

Mikhail Tal wrote:

Let's assume the best case scenario, that Canon's new dual pixel AF system works just as well in live view as it does with the mirror down.

You joined today, I mean created a new account on here today, to post this to put down a new launch?  We all know what  you are.  Good luck with that.

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Mikhail Tal
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Re: Canon 70D: NOT the camera of the year
In reply to Rod McD, Jul 3, 2013

Rod McD wrote:

Hi,

Let's use your approach and say that in the best case scenario EVF resolution catches up with OVF resolution. The issue will remain that EVFs exhibit lags where OVFs are instantaneous. It simply takes milliseconds of processing time to capture the image, process it, relay it and display it in the EVF. So for tasks like sports, birds in flight - anything that needs critical timing, the OVF is likely to be faster - probably always.

Now before anyone jumps me as pro DSLR and anti-mirror-less, I'm not. I own both - I use a DSLR and I'm a fan of compact high IQ cameras. The future is both EVF and OVF. Either/or threads are yesterdays debate. It's horses for courses. People will buy the camera that suits their needs. If you read across the forums, you will see that many people own both. Choice is good. It's an innovative period and we as photographers are blessed with more choice than we've probably ever had. Good!

I'm not Canon DSLR owner, but to be fair, give the 70D an opportunity to be evaluated on its merits rather than using your first post to be negative before even one has been sold.

Rod

It doesn't matter if there is a lag if it is small enough so as to be not perceptible to the human eye

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Mikhail Tal
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LOL OVF people
In reply to Mikhail Tal, Jul 3, 2013

Me: Future EVFs will be superior to OVFs

OVF people: Wrong, because present EVFs are not superior to OVFs in my opinion.

Me: Flawless logic...

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TrapperJohn
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And that is why the 70D has an OVF
In reply to Peter A. Stavrakoglou, Jul 3, 2013

Not the lag, the latest EVF's have no perceptable lag. Or the resolution, the latest are very good.

It's the number of people that believe EVF's are still the laggy, pixely things that were found on P&S cameras that would have hurt the 70D's sales.

Rome wasn't built in a day.

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Oly Canikon
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Re: Is this why TV can't follow golf balls in flight?
In reply to Just Having Fun, Jul 3, 2013

Just Having Fun wrote:

Rod McD wrote:

Hi,

It simply takes milliseconds of processing time to capture the image, process it, relay it and display it in the EVF. So for tasks like sports, birds in flight - anything that needs critical timing, the OVF is likely to be faster - probably always.

And so TV cameras will not be able to follow golf balls, hockey pucks, baseballs, etc. because they all use EVFs. Oh, wait...they have been doing that for years.

They have been doing it with analog. I haven't seen any digital cameras without lag. Someday soon no doubt but not yet.

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Mike CH
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Who was he before?
In reply to RedFox88, Jul 3, 2013

RedFox88 wrote:

Mikhail Tal wrote:

Let's assume the best case scenario, that Canon's new dual pixel AF system works just as well in live view as it does with the mirror down.

You joined today, I mean created a new account on here today, to post this to put down a new launch? We all know what you are. Good luck with that.

One might even ask, who was he before today?

Regards, Mike

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tkbslc
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Excellent live view AF + OVF with excellent AF = win
In reply to Mikhail Tal, Jul 3, 2013

Most people don't want an EVF after they've experienced zero lag OVFs.

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tkbslc
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Re: LOL OVF people
In reply to Mikhail Tal, Jul 3, 2013

Mikhail Tal wrote:

Me: Future EVFs will be superior to OVFs

OVF people: Wrong, because present EVFs are not superior to OVFs in my opinion.

Me: Flawless logic...

Your logic is flawed because you are talking about the "Camera of the Year", which is the present, not the future.

Also the presumption that future EVFs will be better is based on faith, whereas OVF superiority is currently observed.

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MoreorLess
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Re: LOL OVF people
In reply to tkbslc, Jul 3, 2013

tkbslc wrote:

Mikhail Tal wrote:

Me: Future EVFs will be superior to OVFs

OVF people: Wrong, because present EVFs are not superior to OVFs in my opinion.

Me: Flawless logic...

Your logic is flawed because you are talking about the "Camera of the Year", which is the present, not the future.

Also the presumption that future EVFs will be better is based on faith, whereas OVF superiority is currently observed.

I'd add as well that there doesn't seem to be anything agenst a Fuji like system being used on DSLR's so you could potentially have both.

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MoreorLess
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Re: LOL OVF people
In reply to Mikhail Tal, Jul 3, 2013

Mikhail Tal wrote:

Me: Future EVFs will be superior to OVFs

OVF people: Wrong, because present EVFs are not superior to OVFs in my opinion.

Me: Flawless logic...

So basically you've come here to troll with a mirrorless agenda?

If were going that route I'm guessing you own a non Canon mirrorless system right? well this new AF system is likely going to be Canon only via patent so perhaps its you that should be a bit worried about your investment in a system that may now be technologically outdated in a still maturing(and loss making) market. If I was banking on one lens mount still being around in 5 years time it would be the Canon EF followed closely by the Nikon F and the Leica M over any current mirrorless one.

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Mikhail Tal
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Re: LOL OVF people
In reply to tkbslc, Jul 3, 2013

tkbslc wrote:

Mikhail Tal wrote:

Me: Future EVFs will be superior to OVFs

OVF people: Wrong, because present EVFs are not superior to OVFs in my opinion.

Me: Flawless logic...

Your logic is flawed because you are talking about the "Camera of the Year", which is the present, not the future.

Also the presumption that future EVFs will be better is based on faith, whereas OVF superiority is currently observed.

The year goes through December 31st if I'm not mistaken. Is that the present? The camera of the year doesn't exist yet (certainly won't be any camera from the first half).

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