'France is plagued by bankruptcy and mass immigration’ - Marine Le Pen

Started Jul 1, 2013 | Discussions
Bill Randall
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Re: 'France is plagued by bankruptcy and mass immigration’ - Marine Le Pen
In reply to carizi, Jul 4, 2013

Perhaps the Egyptian people are smarter than the French or the Americans. They at least recognize when their government has sold them out, and they do something about it.

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Limburger
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Re: 'France is plagued by bankruptcy and mass immigration’ - Marine Le Pen
In reply to Bill Randall, Jul 4, 2013

Bill Randall wrote:

Perhaps the Egyptian people are smarter than the French or the Americans. They at least recognize when their government has sold them out, and they do something about it.

People in general are equally smart. Intelligence doesn't stop at the border.

What is happening in Egypt now happened in Europe some time ago.

The people are fed up being pushed around.

The dark ages of the Muslim world is coming to a halt.

You need the division of church and state as trias politica.

Other types of state are doomed to last.

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Cuba: Mecca for Healthcare (Not)....
In reply to Wheatfield, Jul 4, 2013

Wheatfield wrote:

Cuba has a better health care system than the USA, and is both more honest and less violent than the USA.

Then I have a wish for you: That you experience the same wonderful Healthcare that Cuba has :

Problems within Cuba's health system, including:

  • Low pay of doctors.
  • Poor facilities—buildings in poor state of repair and mostly outdated.
  • Poor provision of equipment.
  • Frequent absence of essential drugs.
  • Concern regarding freedom of choice both for patient and doctor.

Katherine Hirschfeld, an anthropology professor at the University of Oklahoma, did her Ph.D. thesis on the Cuban health system, spending nine months conducting ethnographic work in Cuba in the late 1990s:

-"public criticism of the government is a crime in Cuba",

-"formally eliciting critical narratives about health care would be viewed as a criminal act both for me as a researcher, and for people who spoke openly with me". Nevertheless, she was able to hear from many Cubans, including health professionals,

-"serious complaints about the intrusion of politics into medical treatment and health care decision-making".

-there is no right to privacy in the physician-patient relationship in Cuba

-no patients’ right of informed consent

-no right to refuse treatment

-no right to protest or sue for malpractice".

-In her view medical care in Cuba can be dehumanizing.

-Cuban Ministry of Health (MINSAP) sets statistical targets that are viewed as production quotas.

-The most guarded is infant mortality rate. To illustrate this, Hirschfeld describes a case where a doctor said that if the ultrasound examination revealed "some fetal abnormalities", the woman "would have an abortion", to avoid an increase in the infant mortality rate.

- deliberate manipulation of health statistics, aggressive political intrusion into health care decision-making, criminalizing dissent, and other forms of authoritarian policing of the health sector designed to insure health changes reflect the (often utopian) predictions of Marxist theory".

-"the true extent of these practices was virtually unknown in the West", where "social scientists frequently cited favorable health statistics supplied by [these regimes], without critically looking at the ways these were created and maintained by state power".

-"Cuba’s health indicators are at least in some cases obtained by imposing significant costs on the Cuban population -- costs that Cuban citizens are powerless to articulate or protest, and foreign researchers unable to empirically investigate"

-foreign "health tourists" paying with dollars and senior Communist party officials receive a higher quality of care than Cuban citizens.

-the Cuban Government established mechanisms designed to turn the medical system into a profit-making enterprise. This creates an enormous disparity in the quality of healthcare services between foreigners and Cubans leading to a form of tourist apartheid.

- foreign patients were routinely inadequately or falsely informed about their medical conditions to increase their medical bills or to hide the fact that Cuba often advertises medical services it is unable to provide. Others makes similar claims, also stating that

-Senior Communist party and military officials can access this higher quality system free of charge.

An article in Canadian newspaper National Post, based upon interviews of Cubans, finds that in reality even the most common pharmaceutical items, such as aspirin and antibiotics are conspicuously absent or only available on the black market.

-Surgeons lack basic supplies and must re-use latex gloves. Patients must buy their own sutures on the black market and provide bedsheets and food for extended hospital stays.

A recent ABC-TV 20/20 report on Healthcare, based on footage taken from within the island, criticized Michael Moore's portrayals of the Cuban Healthcare system in the movie Sicko. In that film, Moore took a number of Americans to a hospital in Havana where they bought affordable drugs, and were given treatments for free that they could not afford in America. The report highlights the dilapidated conditions of some hospitals that are accessible to regular Cubans by pointing to the bleak conditions of hospital rooms and the filthy conditions of the facilities. The report also addressed the quality of care available to Cubans by arguing that patient neglect was a common phenomenon. Finally, in discussing the infant mortality rate, the report highlights the government's alleged efforts to promote abortions of potentially infirm fetuses and other alleged government efforts to manipulate the rate.

That's a bit on Cuba's great healthcare.

Care to guess about honesty in Cuba and crime?

Hint: Many Cuban's are so miserable  that they'd gladly trade a higher crime rate for more freedom, opportunity, and less misery.

RB

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Limburger
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Re: Cuba: Mecca for Healthcare (Not)....
In reply to RBFresno, Jul 4, 2013

RBFresno wrote:

Wheatfield wrote:

Cuba has a better health care system than the USA, and is both more honest and less violent than the USA.

Then I have a wish for you: That you experience the same wonderful Healthcare that Cuba has :

Problems within Cuba's health system, including:

  • Low pay of doctors.
  • Poor facilities—buildings in poor state of repair and mostly outdated.
  • Poor provision of equipment.
  • Frequent absence of essential drugs.
  • Concern regarding freedom of choice both for patient and doctor.

Katherine Hirschfeld, an anthropology professor at the University of Oklahoma, did her Ph.D. thesis on the Cuban health system, spending nine months conducting ethnographic work in Cuba in the late 1990s:

-"public criticism of the government is a crime in Cuba",

-"formally eliciting critical narratives about health care would be viewed as a criminal act both for me as a researcher, and for people who spoke openly with me". Nevertheless, she was able to hear from many Cubans, including health professionals,

-"serious complaints about the intrusion of politics into medical treatment and health care decision-making".

-there is no right to privacy in the physician-patient relationship in Cuba

-no patients’ right of informed consent

-no right to refuse treatment

-no right to protest or sue for malpractice".

-In her view medical care in Cuba can be dehumanizing.

-Cuban Ministry of Health (MINSAP) sets statistical targets that are viewed as production quotas.

-The most guarded is infant mortality rate. To illustrate this, Hirschfeld describes a case where a doctor said that if the ultrasound examination revealed "some fetal abnormalities", the woman "would have an abortion", to avoid an increase in the infant mortality rate.

- deliberate manipulation of health statistics, aggressive political intrusion into health care decision-making, criminalizing dissent, and other forms of authoritarian policing of the health sector designed to insure health changes reflect the (often utopian) predictions of Marxist theory".

-"the true extent of these practices was virtually unknown in the West", where "social scientists frequently cited favorable health statistics supplied by [these regimes], without critically looking at the ways these were created and maintained by state power".

-"Cuba’s health indicators are at least in some cases obtained by imposing significant costs on the Cuban population -- costs that Cuban citizens are powerless to articulate or protest, and foreign researchers unable to empirically investigate"

-foreign "health tourists" paying with dollars and senior Communist party officials receive a higher quality of care than Cuban citizens.

-the Cuban Government established mechanisms designed to turn the medical system into a profit-making enterprise. This creates an enormous disparity in the quality of healthcare services between foreigners and Cubans leading to a form of tourist apartheid.

- foreign patients were routinely inadequately or falsely informed about their medical conditions to increase their medical bills or to hide the fact that Cuba often advertises medical services it is unable to provide. Others makes similar claims, also stating that

-Senior Communist party and military officials can access this higher quality system free of charge.

An article in Canadian newspaper National Post, based upon interviews of Cubans, finds that in reality even the most common pharmaceutical items, such as aspirin and antibiotics are conspicuously absent or only available on the black market.

-Surgeons lack basic supplies and must re-use latex gloves. Patients must buy their own sutures on the black market and provide bedsheets and food for extended hospital stays.

A recent ABC-TV 20/20 report on Healthcare, based on footage taken from within the island, criticized Michael Moore's portrayals of the Cuban Healthcare system in the movie Sicko. In that film, Moore took a number of Americans to a hospital in Havana where they bought affordable drugs, and were given treatments for free that they could not afford in America. The report highlights the dilapidated conditions of some hospitals that are accessible to regular Cubans by pointing to the bleak conditions of hospital rooms and the filthy conditions of the facilities. The report also addressed the quality of care available to Cubans by arguing that patient neglect was a common phenomenon. Finally, in discussing the infant mortality rate, the report highlights the government's alleged efforts to promote abortions of potentially infirm fetuses and other alleged government efforts to manipulate the rate.

That's a bit on Cuba's great healthcare.

Care to guess about honesty in Cuba and crime?

Hint: Many Cuban's are so miserable that they'd gladly trade a higher crime rate for more freedom, opportunity, and less misery.

RB

I totally agree

But I think the point made was that it was fair for everybody no matter how good or bad.

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Cheers Mike

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Bill Randall
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Re: Cuba: Mecca for Healthcare (Not)....
In reply to Limburger, Jul 4, 2013

Limburger wrote:

RBFresno wrote:

Wheatfield wrote:

Cuba has a better health care system than the USA, and is both more honest and less violent than the USA.

Then I have a wish for you: That you experience the same wonderful Healthcare that Cuba has :

Problems within Cuba's health system, including:

  • Low pay of doctors.
  • Poor facilities—buildings in poor state of repair and mostly outdated.
  • Poor provision of equipment.
  • Frequent absence of essential drugs.
  • Concern regarding freedom of choice both for patient and doctor.

Katherine Hirschfeld, an anthropology professor at the University of Oklahoma, did her Ph.D. thesis on the Cuban health system, spending nine months conducting ethnographic work in Cuba in the late 1990s:

-"public criticism of the government is a crime in Cuba",

-"formally eliciting critical narratives about health care would be viewed as a criminal act both for me as a researcher, and for people who spoke openly with me". Nevertheless, she was able to hear from many Cubans, including health professionals,

-"serious complaints about the intrusion of politics into medical treatment and health care decision-making".

-there is no right to privacy in the physician-patient relationship in Cuba

-no patients’ right of informed consent

-no right to refuse treatment

-no right to protest or sue for malpractice".

-In her view medical care in Cuba can be dehumanizing.

-Cuban Ministry of Health (MINSAP) sets statistical targets that are viewed as production quotas.

-The most guarded is infant mortality rate. To illustrate this, Hirschfeld describes a case where a doctor said that if the ultrasound examination revealed "some fetal abnormalities", the woman "would have an abortion", to avoid an increase in the infant mortality rate.

- deliberate manipulation of health statistics, aggressive political intrusion into health care decision-making, criminalizing dissent, and other forms of authoritarian policing of the health sector designed to insure health changes reflect the (often utopian) predictions of Marxist theory".

-"the true extent of these practices was virtually unknown in the West", where "social scientists frequently cited favorable health statistics supplied by [these regimes], without critically looking at the ways these were created and maintained by state power".

-"Cuba’s health indicators are at least in some cases obtained by imposing significant costs on the Cuban population -- costs that Cuban citizens are powerless to articulate or protest, and foreign researchers unable to empirically investigate"

-foreign "health tourists" paying with dollars and senior Communist party officials receive a higher quality of care than Cuban citizens.

-the Cuban Government established mechanisms designed to turn the medical system into a profit-making enterprise. This creates an enormous disparity in the quality of healthcare services between foreigners and Cubans leading to a form of tourist apartheid.

- foreign patients were routinely inadequately or falsely informed about their medical conditions to increase their medical bills or to hide the fact that Cuba often advertises medical services it is unable to provide. Others makes similar claims, also stating that

-Senior Communist party and military officials can access this higher quality system free of charge.

An article in Canadian newspaper National Post, based upon interviews of Cubans, finds that in reality even the most common pharmaceutical items, such as aspirin and antibiotics are conspicuously absent or only available on the black market.

-Surgeons lack basic supplies and must re-use latex gloves. Patients must buy their own sutures on the black market and provide bedsheets and food for extended hospital stays.

A recent ABC-TV 20/20 report on Healthcare, based on footage taken from within the island, criticized Michael Moore's portrayals of the Cuban Healthcare system in the movie Sicko. In that film, Moore took a number of Americans to a hospital in Havana where they bought affordable drugs, and were given treatments for free that they could not afford in America. The report highlights the dilapidated conditions of some hospitals that are accessible to regular Cubans by pointing to the bleak conditions of hospital rooms and the filthy conditions of the facilities. The report also addressed the quality of care available to Cubans by arguing that patient neglect was a common phenomenon. Finally, in discussing the infant mortality rate, the report highlights the government's alleged efforts to promote abortions of potentially infirm fetuses and other alleged government efforts to manipulate the rate.

That's a bit on Cuba's great healthcare.

Care to guess about honesty in Cuba and crime?

Hint: Many Cuban's are so miserable that they'd gladly trade a higher crime rate for more freedom, opportunity, and less misery.

RB

I totally agree

But I think the point made was that it was fair for everybody no matter how good or bad.

If you are in government or have friends in the party, I'll bet your care is better than that available for the average citizen.

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lylejk
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In reply to carizi, Jul 4, 2013

All of Europe is in trouble.  

http://www.youtube.com/embed/6-3X5hIFXYU

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Limburger
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Re: Cuba: Mecca for Healthcare (Not)....
In reply to Bill Randall, Jul 4, 2013

Bill Randall wrote:

Limburger wrote:

RBFresno wrote:

Wheatfield wrote:

Cuba has a better health care system than the USA, and is both more honest and less violent than the USA.

Then I have a wish for you: That you experience the same wonderful Healthcare that Cuba has :

Problems within Cuba's health system, including:

  • Low pay of doctors.
  • Poor facilities—buildings in poor state of repair and mostly outdated.
  • Poor provision of equipment.
  • Frequent absence of essential drugs.
  • Concern regarding freedom of choice both for patient and doctor.

Katherine Hirschfeld, an anthropology professor at the University of Oklahoma, did her Ph.D. thesis on the Cuban health system, spending nine months conducting ethnographic work in Cuba in the late 1990s:

-"public criticism of the government is a crime in Cuba",

-"formally eliciting critical narratives about health care would be viewed as a criminal act both for me as a researcher, and for people who spoke openly with me". Nevertheless, she was able to hear from many Cubans, including health professionals,

-"serious complaints about the intrusion of politics into medical treatment and health care decision-making".

-there is no right to privacy in the physician-patient relationship in Cuba

-no patients’ right of informed consent

-no right to refuse treatment

-no right to protest or sue for malpractice".

-In her view medical care in Cuba can be dehumanizing.

-Cuban Ministry of Health (MINSAP) sets statistical targets that are viewed as production quotas.

-The most guarded is infant mortality rate. To illustrate this, Hirschfeld describes a case where a doctor said that if the ultrasound examination revealed "some fetal abnormalities", the woman "would have an abortion", to avoid an increase in the infant mortality rate.

- deliberate manipulation of health statistics, aggressive political intrusion into health care decision-making, criminalizing dissent, and other forms of authoritarian policing of the health sector designed to insure health changes reflect the (often utopian) predictions of Marxist theory".

-"the true extent of these practices was virtually unknown in the West", where "social scientists frequently cited favorable health statistics supplied by [these regimes], without critically looking at the ways these were created and maintained by state power".

-"Cuba’s health indicators are at least in some cases obtained by imposing significant costs on the Cuban population -- costs that Cuban citizens are powerless to articulate or protest, and foreign researchers unable to empirically investigate"

-foreign "health tourists" paying with dollars and senior Communist party officials receive a higher quality of care than Cuban citizens.

-the Cuban Government established mechanisms designed to turn the medical system into a profit-making enterprise. This creates an enormous disparity in the quality of healthcare services between foreigners and Cubans leading to a form of tourist apartheid.

- foreign patients were routinely inadequately or falsely informed about their medical conditions to increase their medical bills or to hide the fact that Cuba often advertises medical services it is unable to provide. Others makes similar claims, also stating that

-Senior Communist party and military officials can access this higher quality system free of charge.

An article in Canadian newspaper National Post, based upon interviews of Cubans, finds that in reality even the most common pharmaceutical items, such as aspirin and antibiotics are conspicuously absent or only available on the black market.

-Surgeons lack basic supplies and must re-use latex gloves. Patients must buy their own sutures on the black market and provide bedsheets and food for extended hospital stays.

A recent ABC-TV 20/20 report on Healthcare, based on footage taken from within the island, criticized Michael Moore's portrayals of the Cuban Healthcare system in the movie Sicko. In that film, Moore took a number of Americans to a hospital in Havana where they bought affordable drugs, and were given treatments for free that they could not afford in America. The report highlights the dilapidated conditions of some hospitals that are accessible to regular Cubans by pointing to the bleak conditions of hospital rooms and the filthy conditions of the facilities. The report also addressed the quality of care available to Cubans by arguing that patient neglect was a common phenomenon. Finally, in discussing the infant mortality rate, the report highlights the government's alleged efforts to promote abortions of potentially infirm fetuses and other alleged government efforts to manipulate the rate.

That's a bit on Cuba's great healthcare.

Care to guess about honesty in Cuba and crime?

Hint: Many Cuban's are so miserable that they'd gladly trade a higher crime rate for more freedom, opportunity, and less misery.

RB

I totally agree

But I think the point made was that it was fair for everybody no matter how good or bad.

If you are in government or have friends in the party, I'll bet your care is better than that available for the average citizen.

I am not saying Cuba is bonkers I am saying it's the same for everybody, let alone the hotshots but that is no different in the US, Russia or elsewhere, they go to Switzerland.

And socialism has nothing to do with the welfare of a nation , it's just how you split the gross national product.

Many complaints how socialism and communism failed, but capitalism fails every 25 years!

Personally I think socialism is the best system, no hunger and homeless people, a solid base to me.

It's not a matter of costs but a matter of savings.

A safetynet for when things get sour will get people to feel comfortable and spend even more money.

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Ubilam
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A Russian news website?
In reply to carizi, Jul 4, 2013

carizi wrote:

http://on.rt.com/o6tda1

You posted a Russian news website URL. I will not go there. Besides, anybody remember France's gift to the people of America way back when the French were going thru hard times??

The statue of Liberty? Happy 4th.

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Limburger
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Re: A Russian news website?
In reply to Ubilam, Jul 4, 2013

Ubilam wrote:

carizi wrote:

http://on.rt.com/o6tda1

You posted a Russian news website URL. I will not go there. Besides, anybody remember France's gift to the people of America way back when the French were going thru hard times??

The statue of Liberty? Happy 4th.

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"Hey, don't blame me."

Europe has learned, the rest of the world I am not so sure of.

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Cheers Mike

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LeRentier
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Re: 'France is plagued by bankruptcy and mass immigration’ - Marine Le Pen
In reply to carizi, Jul 4, 2013

carizi wrote:

http://on.rt.com/o6tda1

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There seems to be an agreement that France needs to be put back on its feet and, if anyone wants to propose a plan in 5 simple steps to achieve that, please, be my guest, detail the plan and if I like it, I'll organise a revolution to carry out that plan.
Realistic plans only please, I'm already working on a revolution in the US, I'm to busy for nonsense.

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veni vidi vomi

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KEVZPHOTOS
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Re: 'France is plagued by bankruptcy and mass immigration’ - Marine Le Pen
In reply to Henry Schobin, Jul 4, 2013

Henry Schobin wrote:

Summer School wrote:

Immigration is what is civilizing Europe today. Without immigrants, Europe would collapse.

The Muslims will take over Europe and unite it into one country...

What a load of bollox...

then eventually do the same with the rest of the world....and our politicians will help make it happen, ironically in the name of diversity.

Do YOU really believe this crap...or, are YOU simply trying to wind us up?

KEV

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"No problem can be solved at the level of consciousness which created it" - Albert Einstein

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DUSTY LENS
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Re: 'France is plagued by bankruptcy and mass immigration’ - Marine Le Pen
In reply to Wheatfield, Jul 4, 2013

Wheatfield wrote:

28to70 wrote:

KEVZPHOTOS wrote:

Todd Ka wrote:

Marine Le Pen is a shining example of the type of leadership the civilized world needs.

YOU are kidding us - right?

KEV

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"No problem can be solved at the level of consciousness which created it" - Albert Einstein

No Kev, Le socialisme doesn't work. Not even Russia is socialist anymore. Cuba and N Korea are, and look at the armpits they are. The world is rebelling against the tribe.

Amazing how all those norther European countries are working really well, as is your northern neighbor.

As an aside, Cuba would probably work a whole lot better were it not for the fact it's been blockaded by the USA for the past half century. At that, Cuba has a better health care system than the USA, and is both more honest and less violent than the USA.

But you need to give Cuba credit for enforcing it's borders . Something the U.S. hasn't thought of for the last half century .

Until the U.S. caches up to the rest of the world on border enforcement you will not have any honest comparison on what is better , Government run health care , or Free Clinics .

Also you are taking unfair advantage of the all time record reliance on dishonesty since Obama took over the office of propaganda and brain washing here in the U.S. .

This has never happened before Obama , except if you count Johnson , or Clinton , or Bush , or Janet Neopolitan , or maybe a few others .

So , You can pick on the U.S. now , But we may not be around for you to pick on us if we don't get some real change in the White House and everything under it .

Have Fun . Everything is fun and fair and on the table ,  , for now .

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DrugaRunda
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Re: Cuba: Mecca for Healthcare (Not)....
In reply to RBFresno, Jul 4, 2013

RBFresno wrote:

Wheatfield wrote:

Cuba has a better health care system than the USA, and is both more honest and less violent than the USA.

Then I have a wish for you: That you experience the same wonderful Healthcare that Cuba has :

Problems within Cuba's health system, including:

  • Low pay of doctors.
  • Poor facilities—buildings in poor state of repair and mostly outdated.
  • Poor provision of equipment.
  • Frequent absence of essential drugs.
  • Concern regarding freedom of choice both for patient and doctor.

Katherine Hirschfeld, an anthropology professor at the University of Oklahoma, did her Ph.D. thesis on the Cuban health system, spending nine months conducting ethnographic work in Cuba in the late 1990s:

-"public criticism of the government is a crime in Cuba",

-"formally eliciting critical narratives about health care would be viewed as a criminal act both for me as a researcher, and for people who spoke openly with me". Nevertheless, she was able to hear from many Cubans, including health professionals,

-"serious complaints about the intrusion of politics into medical treatment and health care decision-making".

-there is no right to privacy in the physician-patient relationship in Cuba

-no patients’ right of informed consent

-no right to refuse treatment

-no right to protest or sue for malpractice".

-In her view medical care in Cuba can be dehumanizing.

-Cuban Ministry of Health (MINSAP) sets statistical targets that are viewed as production quotas.

-The most guarded is infant mortality rate. To illustrate this, Hirschfeld describes a case where a doctor said that if the ultrasound examination revealed "some fetal abnormalities", the woman "would have an abortion", to avoid an increase in the infant mortality rate.

- deliberate manipulation of health statistics, aggressive political intrusion into health care decision-making, criminalizing dissent, and other forms of authoritarian policing of the health sector designed to insure health changes reflect the (often utopian) predictions of Marxist theory".

-"the true extent of these practices was virtually unknown in the West", where "social scientists frequently cited favorable health statistics supplied by [these regimes], without critically looking at the ways these were created and maintained by state power".

-"Cuba’s health indicators are at least in some cases obtained by imposing significant costs on the Cuban population -- costs that Cuban citizens are powerless to articulate or protest, and foreign researchers unable to empirically investigate"

-foreign "health tourists" paying with dollars and senior Communist party officials receive a higher quality of care than Cuban citizens.

-the Cuban Government established mechanisms designed to turn the medical system into a profit-making enterprise. This creates an enormous disparity in the quality of healthcare services between foreigners and Cubans leading to a form of tourist apartheid.

- foreign patients were routinely inadequately or falsely informed about their medical conditions to increase their medical bills or to hide the fact that Cuba often advertises medical services it is unable to provide. Others makes similar claims, also stating that

-Senior Communist party and military officials can access this higher quality system free of charge.

An article in Canadian newspaper National Post, based upon interviews of Cubans, finds that in reality even the most common pharmaceutical items, such as aspirin and antibiotics are conspicuously absent or only available on the black market.

-Surgeons lack basic supplies and must re-use latex gloves. Patients must buy their own sutures on the black market and provide bedsheets and food for extended hospital stays.

A recent ABC-TV 20/20 report on Healthcare, based on footage taken from within the island, criticized Michael Moore's portrayals of the Cuban Healthcare system in the movie Sicko. In that film, Moore took a number of Americans to a hospital in Havana where they bought affordable drugs, and were given treatments for free that they could not afford in America. The report highlights the dilapidated conditions of some hospitals that are accessible to regular Cubans by pointing to the bleak conditions of hospital rooms and the filthy conditions of the facilities. The report also addressed the quality of care available to Cubans by arguing that patient neglect was a common phenomenon. Finally, in discussing the infant mortality rate, the report highlights the government's alleged efforts to promote abortions of potentially infirm fetuses and other alleged government efforts to manipulate the rate.

That's a bit on Cuba's great healthcare.

Care to guess about honesty in Cuba and crime?

Hint: Many Cuban's are so miserable that they'd gladly trade a higher crime rate for more freedom, opportunity, and less misery.

RB

Cuban GDP per capita 6k USD - about 8x less than in US (about 90th in the world), and largely due to US sanctions (such a low level, it would be at least double or better without them).

Cuban life expectancy - 79 years - the same as in the US (about 30th in the world).

So they seem to be doing pretty well, and I am also sure that they do not have the gap between different groups in their country as you have in the US.

http://content.healthaffairs.org/content/31/8/1803

When race and education are combined, the disparity is even more striking. In 2008 white US men and women with 16 years or more of schooling had life expectancies far greater than black Americans with fewer than 12 years of education—14.2 years more for white men than black men, and 10.3 years more for white women than black women

You life prospects depend greatly on where you were born in the US, not so much in Cuba, so at least in that respect they are more equal even though they do not have access to 50k USD of GPD per head on average as you have, but 8x less than that. Amazing, isn't it?

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RBFresno
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Re: Cuba: Paradise for all.......
In reply to DrugaRunda, Jul 4, 2013

DrugaRunda wrote:

RBFresno wrote:

Wheatfield wrote:

Cuba has a better health care system than the USA, and is both more honest and less violent than the USA.

Then I have a wish for you: That you experience the same wonderful Healthcare that Cuba has :

Problems within Cuba's health system, including:

  • Low pay of doctors.
  • Poor facilities—buildings in poor state of repair and mostly outdated.
  • Poor provision of equipment.
  • Frequent absence of essential drugs.
  • Concern regarding freedom of choice both for patient and doctor.

Katherine Hirschfeld, an anthropology professor at the University of Oklahoma, did her Ph.D. thesis on the Cuban health system, spending nine months conducting ethnographic work in Cuba in the late 1990s:

-"public criticism of the government is a crime in Cuba",

-"formally eliciting critical narratives about health care would be viewed as a criminal act both for me as a researcher, and for people who spoke openly with me". Nevertheless, she was able to hear from many Cubans, including health professionals,

-"serious complaints about the intrusion of politics into medical treatment and health care decision-making".

-there is no right to privacy in the physician-patient relationship in Cuba

-no patients’ right of informed consent

-no right to refuse treatment

-no right to protest or sue for malpractice".

-In her view medical care in Cuba can be dehumanizing.

-Cuban Ministry of Health (MINSAP) sets statistical targets that are viewed as production quotas.

-The most guarded is infant mortality rate. To illustrate this, Hirschfeld describes a case where a doctor said that if the ultrasound examination revealed "some fetal abnormalities", the woman "would have an abortion", to avoid an increase in the infant mortality rate.

- deliberate manipulation of health statistics, aggressive political intrusion into health care decision-making, criminalizing dissent, and other forms of authoritarian policing of the health sector designed to insure health changes reflect the (often utopian) predictions of Marxist theory".

-"the true extent of these practices was virtually unknown in the West", where "social scientists frequently cited favorable health statistics supplied by [these regimes], without critically looking at the ways these were created and maintained by state power".

-"Cuba’s health indicators are at least in some cases obtained by imposing significant costs on the Cuban population -- costs that Cuban citizens are powerless to articulate or protest, and foreign researchers unable to empirically investigate"

-foreign "health tourists" paying with dollars and senior Communist party officials receive a higher quality of care than Cuban citizens.

-the Cuban Government established mechanisms designed to turn the medical system into a profit-making enterprise. This creates an enormous disparity in the quality of healthcare services between foreigners and Cubans leading to a form of tourist apartheid.

- foreign patients were routinely inadequately or falsely informed about their medical conditions to increase their medical bills or to hide the fact that Cuba often advertises medical services it is unable to provide. Others makes similar claims, also stating that

-Senior Communist party and military officials can access this higher quality system free of charge.

An article in Canadian newspaper National Post, based upon interviews of Cubans, finds that in reality even the most common pharmaceutical items, such as aspirin and antibiotics are conspicuously absent or only available on the black market.

-Surgeons lack basic supplies and must re-use latex gloves. Patients must buy their own sutures on the black market and provide bedsheets and food for extended hospital stays.

A recent ABC-TV 20/20 report on Healthcare, based on footage taken from within the island, criticized Michael Moore's portrayals of the Cuban Healthcare system in the movie Sicko. In that film, Moore took a number of Americans to a hospital in Havana where they bought affordable drugs, and were given treatments for free that they could not afford in America. The report highlights the dilapidated conditions of some hospitals that are accessible to regular Cubans by pointing to the bleak conditions of hospital rooms and the filthy conditions of the facilities. The report also addressed the quality of care available to Cubans by arguing that patient neglect was a common phenomenon. Finally, in discussing the infant mortality rate, the report highlights the government's alleged efforts to promote abortions of potentially infirm fetuses and other alleged government efforts to manipulate the rate.

That's a bit on Cuba's great healthcare.

Care to guess about honesty in Cuba and crime?

Hint: Many Cuban's are so miserable that they'd gladly trade a higher crime rate for more freedom, opportunity, and less misery.

RB

Cuban GDP per capita 6k USD - about 8x less than in US (about 90th in the world), and largely due to US sanctions (such a low level, it would be at least double or better without them).

Yep, that's the common excuse that Cuba gives for anything that doesn't measure up. The Cuban version of the Liberal mantra, "It's Bush's fault".

Cuban life expectancy - 79 years - the same as in the US (about 30th in the world).

See the above reference for how Cuba doctors up it's statistics. I suppose if I want to hear the truth about Cuba, I should dial up some videos of Castro describing Communist Nirvana. And what of the quality of that "life" in Cuba?

So they seem to be doing pretty well, and I am also sure that they do not have the gap between different groups in their country as you have in the US.

Sure.

What"gap" are you referring to? Health Care?

The Communist party leaders in Cuba get the same care as the peasants and poor (Not)?

http://content.healthaffairs.org/content/31/8/1803

When race and education are combined, the disparity is even more striking. In 2008 white US men and women with 16 years or more of schooling had life expectancies far greater than black Americans with fewer than 12 years of education—14.2 years more for white men than black men, and 10.3 years more for white women than black women

You life prospects depend greatly on where you were born in the US, not so much in Cuba, so

Let's see.... I was grew up in a family of 6, to parents with no education beyond High School and making less than $11,000/year.

After High School, I officially "lived in poverty" for at least half a decade.

I now hold three degrees degrees from Stanford, and am in the (reviled by some ) "upper 1%". Just like would have happened to me in Cuba. (except I suppose I would have gotten better Medical Care[???])

More of my background here. You decide how I would have fared growing up in Cuba:

American Dream....

least in that respect they are more equal even though they do not have access to 50k USD of GPD per head on average as you have, but 8x less than that. Amazing, isn't it?

You want to talk "GDP" and "more equal"?

Fine.

In the 1950's, Cuba's GDP was equal to that of Italy's.

Of course there was the dreaded maldistribution of wealth. The Cuban wealth is now more evenly distributed, along with the misery.

Citing Cuba as an example of having less of a "gap" than the U.S., brings to mind Maggie Thatcher's famous statement that "they'd rather (close the gap) if the poor were poorer as long as the rich were less rich" ..

Let's make the U.S. "more equal" (your term), by lowering it's GDP. And while we're at it, why not a "People's Revolution, also like Cuba, where Cuba has "institutionalized" corruption with state-run monopolies, cronyism, and lack of accountability, all making Cuba one of the world's most corrupt states.

RB

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DrugaRunda
Senior MemberPosts: 2,604Gear list
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Re: Cuba: Paradise for all.......
In reply to RBFresno, Jul 4, 2013

RBFresno wrote:

DrugaRunda wrote:

RBFresno wrote:

Wheatfield wrote:

Cuba has a better health care system than the USA, and is both more honest and less violent than the USA.

Then I have a wish for you: That you experience the same wonderful Healthcare that Cuba has :

Problems within Cuba's health system, including:

  • Low pay of doctors.
  • Poor facilities—buildings in poor state of repair and mostly outdated.
  • Poor provision of equipment.
  • Frequent absence of essential drugs.
  • Concern regarding freedom of choice both for patient and doctor.

Katherine Hirschfeld, an anthropology professor at the University of Oklahoma, did her Ph.D. thesis on the Cuban health system, spending nine months conducting ethnographic work in Cuba in the late 1990s:

-"public criticism of the government is a crime in Cuba",

-"formally eliciting critical narratives about health care would be viewed as a criminal act both for me as a researcher, and for people who spoke openly with me". Nevertheless, she was able to hear from many Cubans, including health professionals,

-"serious complaints about the intrusion of politics into medical treatment and health care decision-making".

-there is no right to privacy in the physician-patient relationship in Cuba

-no patients’ right of informed consent

-no right to refuse treatment

-no right to protest or sue for malpractice".

-In her view medical care in Cuba can be dehumanizing.

-Cuban Ministry of Health (MINSAP) sets statistical targets that are viewed as production quotas.

-The most guarded is infant mortality rate. To illustrate this, Hirschfeld describes a case where a doctor said that if the ultrasound examination revealed "some fetal abnormalities", the woman "would have an abortion", to avoid an increase in the infant mortality rate.

- deliberate manipulation of health statistics, aggressive political intrusion into health care decision-making, criminalizing dissent, and other forms of authoritarian policing of the health sector designed to insure health changes reflect the (often utopian) predictions of Marxist theory".

-"the true extent of these practices was virtually unknown in the West", where "social scientists frequently cited favorable health statistics supplied by [these regimes], without critically looking at the ways these were created and maintained by state power".

-"Cuba’s health indicators are at least in some cases obtained by imposing significant costs on the Cuban population -- costs that Cuban citizens are powerless to articulate or protest, and foreign researchers unable to empirically investigate"

-foreign "health tourists" paying with dollars and senior Communist party officials receive a higher quality of care than Cuban citizens.

-the Cuban Government established mechanisms designed to turn the medical system into a profit-making enterprise. This creates an enormous disparity in the quality of healthcare services between foreigners and Cubans leading to a form of tourist apartheid.

- foreign patients were routinely inadequately or falsely informed about their medical conditions to increase their medical bills or to hide the fact that Cuba often advertises medical services it is unable to provide. Others makes similar claims, also stating that

-Senior Communist party and military officials can access this higher quality system free of charge.

An article in Canadian newspaper National Post, based upon interviews of Cubans, finds that in reality even the most common pharmaceutical items, such as aspirin and antibiotics are conspicuously absent or only available on the black market.

-Surgeons lack basic supplies and must re-use latex gloves. Patients must buy their own sutures on the black market and provide bedsheets and food for extended hospital stays.

A recent ABC-TV 20/20 report on Healthcare, based on footage taken from within the island, criticized Michael Moore's portrayals of the Cuban Healthcare system in the movie Sicko. In that film, Moore took a number of Americans to a hospital in Havana where they bought affordable drugs, and were given treatments for free that they could not afford in America. The report highlights the dilapidated conditions of some hospitals that are accessible to regular Cubans by pointing to the bleak conditions of hospital rooms and the filthy conditions of the facilities. The report also addressed the quality of care available to Cubans by arguing that patient neglect was a common phenomenon. Finally, in discussing the infant mortality rate, the report highlights the government's alleged efforts to promote abortions of potentially infirm fetuses and other alleged government efforts to manipulate the rate.

That's a bit on Cuba's great healthcare.

Care to guess about honesty in Cuba and crime?

Hint: Many Cuban's are so miserable that they'd gladly trade a higher crime rate for more freedom, opportunity, and less misery.

RB

Cuban GDP per capita 6k USD - about 8x less than in US (about 90th in the world), and largely due to US sanctions (such a low level, it would be at least double or better without them).

Yep, that's the common excuse that Cuba gives for anything that doesn't measure up. The Cuban version of the Liberal mantra, "It's Bush's fault".

Cuban life expectancy - 79 years - the same as in the US (about 30th in the world).

See the above reference for how Cuba doctors up it's statistics. I suppose if I want to hear the truth about Cuba, I should dial up some videos of Castro describing Communist Nirvana. And what of the quality of that "life" in Cuba?

So they seem to be doing pretty well, and I am also sure that they do not have the gap between different groups in their country as you have in the US.

Sure.

What"gap" are you referring to? Health Care?

The Communist party leaders in Cuba get the same care as the peasants and poor (Not)?

http://content.healthaffairs.org/content/31/8/1803

When race and education are combined, the disparity is even more striking. In 2008 white US men and women with 16 years or more of schooling had life expectancies far greater than black Americans with fewer than 12 years of education—14.2 years more for white men than black men, and 10.3 years more for white women than black women

You life prospects depend greatly on where you were born in the US, not so much in Cuba, so

Let's see.... I was grew up in a family of 6, to parents with no education beyond High School and making less than $11,000/year.

After High School, I officially "lived in poverty" for at least half a decade.

I now hold three degrees degrees from Stanford, and am in the (reviled by some ) "upper 1%". Just like would have happened to me in Cuba. (except I suppose I would have gotten better Medical Care[???])

More of my background here. You decide how I would have fared growing up in Cuba:

American Dream....

least in that respect they are more equal even though they do not have access to 50k USD of GPD per head on average as you have, but 8x less than that. Amazing, isn't it?

You want to talk "GDP" and "more equal"?

Fine.

In the 1950's, Cuba's GDP was equal to that of Italy's.

Of course there was the dreaded maldistribution of wealth. The Cuban wealth is now more evenly distributed, along with the misery.

Citing Cuba as an example of having less of a "gap" than the U.S., brings to mind Maggie Thatcher's famous statement that "they'd rather (close the gap) if the poor were poorer as long as the rich were less rich" ..

Let's make the U.S. "more equal" (your term), by lowering it's GDP. And while we're at it, why not a "People's Revolution, also like Cuba, where Cuba has "institutionalized" corruption with state-run monopolies, cronyism, and lack of accountability, all making Cuba one of the world's most corrupt states.

RB

Typically the life expectancy is not doctored, first as it is hard to do, and second because it has no benefit, so that point is weak.

The point on Cuba's GDP dropping hard has to do both with their social organization and with US sanctions - they both have a hand in it. You in US do not have too much of an issue to deal with Communist China and becoming heavily indebted to it, while there is the whole "principle" of sanctions on the little island in your vicinity due to their political choices, and your ability to block them without any repercussions. If you had any integrity left you would put sanctions on China too. .

While you personally did well in US system, clearly many of your countryman are unable to do the same. Is it just them to blame, or is it your system which perpetuates inequality? Both countries are having issues, and by the looks of it, some Americans would have a lot longer life if nothing else - if they were living in Cuba.

It is interesting when you compare life expectancy by US States, they range is from 81 years in Hawaii to 75 years in Mississippi. Pretty wide gap, and a four year gap behind Cubans in some of those "red states".

Another interesting point - if you were in the state that voted for Obama on the last elections, you can expect to live 2 years longer .

One way or another - there are issues everywhere, and making healthcare coverage more universal does not mean that you have to have Obama as a dictator for next 50 years. There is a middle ground, but current rethoric that I see coming from the US is "me - me - me - and the others can screw themselves", which despite of still very high economic production is leaving your country a very divided place, and in many cases like the third world, an "us and them" society.

Solution to it is accountability, transparency in a system which provides for both the rich and the poor, but you seem to be very resistant on doing anything to help anyone else out. Just the new American way, or was it a dream?

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taintedcamera
Senior MemberPosts: 3,909
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Re: Cuba: Mecca for Healthcare (Not)....
In reply to DrugaRunda, Jul 4, 2013

DrugaRunda wrote:

You life prospects depend greatly on where you were born in the US, not so much in Cuba, so at least in that respect they are more equal even though they do not have access to 50k USD of GPD per head on average as you have, but 8x less than that. Amazing, isn't it?

That is only because they no longer are forced to dig canals and roadways by pick and shovel.

But to say "You life prospects depend greatly on where you were born in the US" is just plain false.

Stress is the number #1 killer.... so you may have a point in saying that Cuba, as a whole, may now have a healthier less stressful lifestyle for the masses..... be they poor.

But in Cuba as well as the US, who lives the longest and who is it that enjoys the fruit of better living....The wealthy.

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RBFresno
Veteran MemberPosts: 8,985Gear list
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Re: Cuba: Paradise for all.......
In reply to DrugaRunda, Jul 4, 2013

DrugaRunda wrote:

RBFresno wrote:

DrugaRunda wrote:

RBFresno wrote:

Wheatfield wrote:

Cuba has a better health care system than the USA, and is both more honest and less violent than the USA.

Then I have a wish for you: That you experience the same wonderful Healthcare that Cuba has :

Problems within Cuba's health system, including:

  • Low pay of doctors.
  • Poor facilities—buildings in poor state of repair and mostly outdated.
  • Poor provision of equipment.
  • Frequent absence of essential drugs.
  • Concern regarding freedom of choice both for patient and doctor.

Katherine Hirschfeld, an anthropology professor at the University of Oklahoma, did her Ph.D. thesis on the Cuban health system, spending nine months conducting ethnographic work in Cuba in the late 1990s:

-"public criticism of the government is a crime in Cuba",

-"formally eliciting critical narratives about health care would be viewed as a criminal act both for me as a researcher, and for people who spoke openly with me". Nevertheless, she was able to hear from many Cubans, including health professionals,

-"serious complaints about the intrusion of politics into medical treatment and health care decision-making".

-there is no right to privacy in the physician-patient relationship in Cuba

-no patients’ right of informed consent

-no right to refuse treatment

-no right to protest or sue for malpractice".

-In her view medical care in Cuba can be dehumanizing.

-Cuban Ministry of Health (MINSAP) sets statistical targets that are viewed as production quotas.

-The most guarded is infant mortality rate. To illustrate this, Hirschfeld describes a case where a doctor said that if the ultrasound examination revealed "some fetal abnormalities", the woman "would have an abortion", to avoid an increase in the infant mortality rate.

- deliberate manipulation of health statistics, aggressive political intrusion into health care decision-making, criminalizing dissent, and other forms of authoritarian policing of the health sector designed to insure health changes reflect the (often utopian) predictions of Marxist theory".

-"the true extent of these practices was virtually unknown in the West", where "social scientists frequently cited favorable health statistics supplied by [these regimes], without critically looking at the ways these were created and maintained by state power".

-"Cuba’s health indicators are at least in some cases obtained by imposing significant costs on the Cuban population -- costs that Cuban citizens are powerless to articulate or protest, and foreign researchers unable to empirically investigate"

-foreign "health tourists" paying with dollars and senior Communist party officials receive a higher quality of care than Cuban citizens.

-the Cuban Government established mechanisms designed to turn the medical system into a profit-making enterprise. This creates an enormous disparity in the quality of healthcare services between foreigners and Cubans leading to a form of tourist apartheid.

- foreign patients were routinely inadequately or falsely informed about their medical conditions to increase their medical bills or to hide the fact that Cuba often advertises medical services it is unable to provide. Others makes similar claims, also stating that

-Senior Communist party and military officials can access this higher quality system free of charge.

An article in Canadian newspaper National Post, based upon interviews of Cubans, finds that in reality even the most common pharmaceutical items, such as aspirin and antibiotics are conspicuously absent or only available on the black market.

-Surgeons lack basic supplies and must re-use latex gloves. Patients must buy their own sutures on the black market and provide bedsheets and food for extended hospital stays.

A recent ABC-TV 20/20 report on Healthcare, based on footage taken from within the island, criticized Michael Moore's portrayals of the Cuban Healthcare system in the movie Sicko. In that film, Moore took a number of Americans to a hospital in Havana where they bought affordable drugs, and were given treatments for free that they could not afford in America. The report highlights the dilapidated conditions of some hospitals that are accessible to regular Cubans by pointing to the bleak conditions of hospital rooms and the filthy conditions of the facilities. The report also addressed the quality of care available to Cubans by arguing that patient neglect was a common phenomenon. Finally, in discussing the infant mortality rate, the report highlights the government's alleged efforts to promote abortions of potentially infirm fetuses and other alleged government efforts to manipulate the rate.

That's a bit on Cuba's great healthcare.

Care to guess about honesty in Cuba and crime?

Hint: Many Cuban's are so miserable that they'd gladly trade a higher crime rate for more freedom, opportunity, and less misery.

RB

Cuban GDP per capita 6k USD - about 8x less than in US (about 90th in the world), and largely due to US sanctions (such a low level, it would be at least double or better without them).

Yep, that's the common excuse that Cuba gives for anything that doesn't measure up. The Cuban version of the Liberal mantra, "It's Bush's fault".

Cuban life expectancy - 79 years - the same as in the US (about 30th in the world).

See the above reference for how Cuba doctors up it's statistics. I suppose if I want to hear the truth about Cuba, I should dial up some videos of Castro describing Communist Nirvana. And what of the quality of that "life" in Cuba?

So they seem to be doing pretty well, and I am also sure that they do not have the gap between different groups in their country as you have in the US.

Sure.

What"gap" are you referring to? Health Care?

The Communist party leaders in Cuba get the same care as the peasants and poor (Not)?

http://content.healthaffairs.org/content/31/8/1803

When race and education are combined, the disparity is even more striking. In 2008 white US men and women with 16 years or more of schooling had life expectancies far greater than black Americans with fewer than 12 years of education—14.2 years more for white men than black men, and 10.3 years more for white women than black women

You life prospects depend greatly on where you were born in the US, not so much in Cuba, so

Let's see.... I was grew up in a family of 6, to parents with no education beyond High School and making less than $11,000/year.

After High School, I officially "lived in poverty" for at least half a decade.

I now hold three degrees degrees from Stanford, and am in the (reviled by some ) "upper 1%". Just like would have happened to me in Cuba. (except I suppose I would have gotten better Medical Care[???])

More of my background here. You decide how I would have fared growing up in Cuba:

American Dream....

least in that respect they are more equal even though they do not have access to 50k USD of GPD per head on average as you have, but 8x less than that. Amazing, isn't it?

You want to talk "GDP" and "more equal"?

Fine.

In the 1950's, Cuba's GDP was equal to that of Italy's.

Of course there was the dreaded maldistribution of wealth. The Cuban wealth is now more evenly distributed, along with the misery.

Citing Cuba as an example of having less of a "gap" than the U.S., brings to mind Maggie Thatcher's famous statement that "they'd rather (close the gap) if the poor were poorer as long as the rich were less rich" ..

Let's make the U.S. "more equal" (your term), by lowering it's GDP. And while we're at it, why not a "People's Revolution, also like Cuba, where Cuba has "institutionalized" corruption with state-run monopolies, cronyism, and lack of accountability, all making Cuba one of the world's most corrupt states.

RB

Typically the life expectancy is not doctored, first as it is hard to do, and second because it has no benefit, so that point is weak.

See my reference to the contrary.

The point on Cuba's GDP dropping hard has to do both with their social organization and with US sanctions -

That's not your original contention.

While you personally did well in US system, clearly many of your countryman are unable to do the same. Is it just them to blame, or is it your system which perpetuates inequality?

Which "system"?

Under the current Administration, despite Obama's "middle class this and middle class that" who do you think has had their wealth eroded more: The rich, the middle class or the poor?

Take one of the largest groups in the U.S. that are undereducated and underemployed: Young, black males. Listen to this Nobel Laureate's comments regarding that (1:19):

Unholey coalition of "Do-Gooders" and Special Interests and effect of minimum wage on Black Unempoyment

Both countries are having issues, and by the looks of it, some Americans would have a lot longer life if nothing else - if they were living in Cuba.

You are the victim of falsification and distortion of statistics by Cuba:

Cuba's "Long Life Expentancy"

The Mythology od Cuban Health Care

But perhaps some Americans would live longer in Cuba. Especially those who, in the U.S. (but not Cuba) can afford to abuse themselves (and sometimes their unborn babies) with alcohol and drugs. One of the flaws in using infant mortality as a proxy for Health Care delivery is that even the best Health care can't counteract a low birth weight babyborn to a mother who has abused herself with drugs and alcohol. Do you suppose a "crack baby" born in the U.S. would fare better if born in Cuba?

It is interesting when you compare life expectancy by US States, they range is from 81 years in Hawaii to 75 years in Mississippi. Pretty wide gap, and a four year gap behind Cubans in some of those "red states".

Comparing the methodology  of data collection and analysis between the U.S. and Cuba as equivalent is not justified (see above references). Communist Regimes have long be expert at manipulating demographic data (see above reference's which you still have not obviously read).

Another interesting point - if you were in the state that voted for Obama on the last elections, you can expect to live 2 years longer .

Are you suggesting a cause and effect? Good Grief....

One way or another - there are issues everywhere, and making healthcare coverage more universal does not mean that you have to have Obama as a dictator for next 50 years. There is a middle ground, but current rethoric that I see coming from the US is "me - me - me - and the others can screw themselves"

That's not the majority of Americans..

, which despite of still very high economic production is leaving your country a very divided place, and in many cases like the third world, an "us and them" society.

Have you seen the statistics on the U.S. being a "divided place" since the election of the Divider -in-Chief?

Solution to it is accountability, transparency in a system which provides for both the rich and the poor,

Yep.

As N. Pelosi said regarding the ineptly named "Affordable" Care Act, "you need to pass it to see what's in it". And this under a President who promised transparency, and that any bill would be on the Internet and/or C-span for enough time to have it reviewed by the public. A lie of the first order.

RB

but you seem to be very resistant on doing anything to help anyone else out.

Who is the "you" that you are referring to? Helping out with what? Healthcare?

Obamacare as drafted, is rife with special treatment for special interests and favored groups, including the ability for some groups to opt out, and other groups not.

Just the new American way, or was it a dream?

Part of the  emerging "New American Way" is in  some ways reminiscent of the Old (Failed) Socialist Ways..

RB

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lanefAU
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Re: 'France is plagued by bankruptcy and mass immigration’ - Marine Le Pen
In reply to LeRentier, Jul 4, 2013

LeRentier wrote:

carizi wrote:

http://on.rt.com/o6tda1

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Photography is more than a medium for factual communication of ideas. It is a creative art.
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There seems to be an agreement that France needs to be put back on its feet and, if anyone wants to propose a plan in 5 simple steps to achieve that, please, be my guest, detail the plan and if I like it, I'll organise a revolution to carry out that plan.
Realistic plans only please, I'm already working on a revolution in the US, I'm to busy for nonsense.

Talking about Revolution?  The men can't think straight, too much wine in the head,  bring on the Women, they know how to start a revolution,  The painting of De La Croix comes to my mind, ok let us call it: "La Revolution  aux  seins nus"

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LeRentier
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Re: 'France is plagued by bankruptcy and mass immigration’ - Marine Le Pen
In reply to lanefAU, Jul 4, 2013

lanefAU wrote:

LeRentier wrote:

carizi wrote:

http://on.rt.com/o6tda1

-- hide signature --

Photography is more than a medium for factual communication of ideas. It is a creative art.
Ansel Adams

There seems to be an agreement that France needs to be put back on its feet and, if anyone wants to propose a plan in 5 simple steps to achieve that, please, be my guest, detail the plan and if I like it, I'll organise a revolution to carry out that plan.
Realistic plans only please, I'm already working on a revolution in the US, I'm to busy for nonsense.

Talking about Revolution? The men can't think straight, too much wine in the head, bring on the Women, they know how to start a revolution, The painting of De La Croix comes to my mind, ok let us call it: "La Revolution aux seins nus"

Posting from Sevilla

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Re: 'France is plagued by bankruptcy and mass immigration’ - Marine Le Pen
In reply to Bill Randall, Jul 4, 2013

Bill Randall wrote:

Perhaps the Egyptian people are smarter than the French or the Americans. They at least recognize when their government has sold them out, and they do something about it.

No kidding. The U.S. was created by people who wanted to be free from Kings, feudalism, cowardly police and armies. There are 1,000,000 of tales of the King's Knights and soldiers entering villages in Old Europe and raping little boys and men, kidnapping pubescent girls for sexual servitude, stealing harvested crops and livestock, ... We're back to Old Europe again. Obama is continuing the curse with his cowardly police and military.

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