major reasons for making panny better in video than oly

Started Jun 30, 2013 | Questions
j9300
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major reasons for making panny better in video than oly
Jun 30, 2013

I was told that panny GF6 will be better than oly epl5 in video although they have same fps.

what makes the better quality in panny video compared to oly?

I experienced epl5 lose the focus frequently when shooting video. this does not happen in panny GF6??

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Olympus PEN E-PL5 Panasonic Lumix DMC-GF6
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007peter
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I find Panasonic suffer from less JELLO effect.
In reply to j9300, Jun 30, 2013

My past experience with Olympus M43 in shooting video is that it is prone to Jello Effect, much more pronounce than either Panasonic or Sony NEX.  I haven't try the latest E-P5 or E-M5 for video, but the E-M1 that I tried last time give me a bad impression.

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Guy Parsons
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Re: major reasons for making panny better in video than oly
In reply to j9300, Jun 30, 2013

j9300 wrote:

I was told that panny GF6 will be better than oly epl5 in video although they have same fps.

what makes the better quality in panny video compared to oly?

I experienced epl5 lose the focus frequently when shooting video. this does not happen in panny GF6??

Panasonic makes video cameras as a major product line so that experience carried over into the M4/3 cameras.

Olympus specialises in stills cameras and cameras that look in holes in your body (endoscopes). They don't seem to worry too much about the video except that marketing demands that it be included.

If really worried about video the first choice is a real video camera, second choice would be a Panasonic M4/3 camera then thirdly an Olympus M4/3 camera.

Somebody said that the Olympus high definition video is a joke anyway and muddy results happen, so the better choice is the lesser 1280 wide to get less mud.

AF with video is always a problem unless using a pocket camera with a tiny sensor and huge depth of field, better to do like the pros and only use manual focus and separate clips so focus is pulled differently for each clip.

Regards...... Guy

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j9300
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Re: major reasons for making panny better in video than oly
In reply to Guy Parsons, Jun 30, 2013

oh, I see.

So, then unstable AF with shallow depth lens would happen to panny 4/3, too.

good to know!

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Guy Parsons
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Re: I find Panasonic suffer from less JELLO effect.
In reply to 007peter, Jun 30, 2013

007peter wrote:

My past experience with Olympus M43 in shooting video is that it is prone to Jello Effect, much more pronounce than either Panasonic or Sony NEX. I haven't try the latest E-P5 or E-M5 for video, but the E-M1 that I tried last time give me a bad impression.

Jello is due to the rather weird pixel shift "stabilisation" for video for Pens prior to E-P5. Better to use a Panasonic OIS lens for video on Olympus, needs to be switched OIS before E-PL5/E-PM2, can be an unswitched lens for E-PL5/E-PM2 and later.

Also CMOS sensor may cause passing trucks etc to slope backwards or forwards, better to use a CCD sensor camera for video of moving things.

Regards...... Guy

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Guy Parsons
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Re: major reasons for making panny better in video than oly
In reply to j9300, Jun 30, 2013

j9300 wrote:

oh, I see.

So, then unstable AF with shallow depth lens would happen to panny 4/3, too.

good to know!

Yes, C-AF will "pump" as it tries to settle on what it thinks is the right focus point, for instance I tried to video a smooth surfaced train moving out of a station, the AF locked on a window, then pumped on the white bit between until it found another window or door to focus on. All the way down the train it pumped in and out.

Better to use a very small aperture and S-AF or manual focus to stop the pumping and have a good depth of field, plus of course a slower shutter speed usually gives a smoother effect.

Saying all that I have very little video experience, rarely use it, but those facts seemed to have emerged in my own experience and from reading this forum.

Regards...... Guy

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Chatokun
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Re: I find Panasonic suffer from less JELLO effect.
In reply to 007peter, Jun 30, 2013

007peter wrote:

My past experience with Olympus M43 in shooting video is that it is prone to Jello Effect, much more pronounce than either Panasonic or Sony NEX. I haven't try the latest E-P5 or E-M5 for video, but the E-M1 that I tried last time give me a bad impression.

The effect doesn't occur or is extremely minimized with EM5. I'm not sure if it's the IBIS or the software, but it's been minimized. I'm sure the EP5 should be the same, especially if IBIS was the cause.

See here for a video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9sUNWz3O42Q

That said, I'm no expert on video, but the problem as I hear it is bitrate, framerate, and a slew of manual controls and settings that are missing. I don't know much on the bitrate and framerate yet (I plan to learn, and the G6 I'll probably buy to do that, unless OLY surprises me with an awesome PDAF/C-AF camera first), however, I noticed one thing I really liked with what I saw on GH3 reviews: changing focus by touching the touchscreen. This doesn't occur on the EM5, you can have it on continuous, single, or manual. While manual is very effective, it does take some practice, and sometimes you just want to select where you want to focus.

I've heard there's plenty of other little things you can set stronger in the Panasonic cameras, and one final thing: There's no time limit on Pany cameras, at least not ones like the GH series and G6. The GX1 lacked this as well. However, the EM5 has a 30 min limit for most files except its highest quality file, which has a 22 minute limit. This is likely due to the file size limit of 4Gb on FAT32 cards, which the Pany cameras adjust to by making multiple files which work seamlessly with each other. Olympus just doesn't seem to try on this front. Maybe they lack experience... I don't see much for camcorders on Oly's site, while I know Pany has experience with video, both from camcorders and more professional level cameras.

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Dr_Jon
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Re: I find Panasonic suffer from less JELLO effect.
In reply to Chatokun, Jun 30, 2013

My GH3 certainly has a 29 minute 59 second video recording limit, in common with nearly all Video-capable DSLRs/DSLMs sold in Europe. (BTW I really quite like DSLM as a descriptive term for Mirrorless interchangeable lens cameras, which the M stands for, makes them seem to be more like DSLRs which some are.)

I wouldn't be surprised to find all the PAL versions have this limit. Also if they are doing it on the GH3 I'm sure their whole range has this limit.

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Dr_Jon
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Re: major reasons for making panny better in video than oly
In reply to j9300, Jun 30, 2013

I wrote a very long post them lost it due to a minor glitch, here's the short version (actually got quite long by the time I was done). Summary is I think the GF6 will be a bit better but neither are really aimed at videographers.

EPL5 video is 1080p at 30fps and 17/20 Mbps or 720p at 30fps and 10/13Mbps all recorded in Quicktime .MOV containers. It doesn't support rates over 30fps or PAL rates in PAL countries, which could be somewhat limiting in PAL regions. ISO is fixed once recording starts. Touch focus is supported during movie recording (I think someone suggested it doesn't do this, but it does). Has a better sensor (e.g. re low light video noise) than the GF6's (although the Codec will probably lose a bit of that lead).

GF6 adds PAL speeds of 25/50fps or 30/60 in non-PAL regions at, however the sensor reads out at 25/30p so the 50/60 modes are somewhat synthetic. It records in AVCHD (17Mbps for 1080/50-60i) and MP4 (20Mbps for 1080/25-30p) containers. Touch focus during movie recording. It's screen is over twice the resolution of the EPL5's.

I don't think either are great video cameras, but should be okay. they are more stills cameras with fairly decent tacked-on video modes. Neither do "real" modes faster than 30p and neither support bitrates over 20Mbps. For casual use 17-20 Mbps is pretty good though, but if you want to go to 50p/60p then 28Mbps is a nice speed to get at least as high as.

General Panasonic plusses:
They have a big Camcorder business and a Codec chip business, so tend to put quite good Codecs (Video/Audio compressors/decompressors) in their Cameras.
There is much more interest in Panasonic video on the web than Olympus, largely due to the GH series cameras. This means there is Hacked firmware available for a number of the cameras (even my old GF1 has a video hack available adding extra features). I don't believe there is anything for the GF6 yet.
They use optically stabilised lenses which is usually better for video, especially when it comes to keeping the sensor cool. The down-sides to IBIS are you can't mount the sensor on a nice heat-sink block and connect it to the camera body plus you have a bunch of kit getting hot moving the sensor around right beside the sensor. This limits how long you can shoot for and will increase noise on long takes if it's dark out.
Good video AF (generally better than Oly) but as there is a limit as to how fast you want to change focus during recording the difference isn't huge.

My main m43 video experiences are with my GH3, here the main issue is having more Moire than I'd like. You really have to think about it. In the last week I had a shot ruined by Moire which I can't repeat (I got much closer to a particular type of bird than I'd ever been before, but the Moire on a few of the feathers was really bad, I even used a not-that-sharp lens to try to help). I suspect Olympus, who are after sharp stills, will have the same issues and you need either a video camera or a camera that can read out all the pixels to help. (I don't know a m43 camera that can read the whole frame out at video speeds, so they just skip chunks of it.) I actually think for casual (!) video shooting my RX100 in its 28Mbps 50p mode is the best camera I have, it always gives great results.

If you really have video as a priority then consider getting a GH2 and applying one of the not-too-adventurous hacks. (Some run it at speeds where it will cook.)

All IMHO of course.

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nick101
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Re: I find Panasonic suffer from less JELLO effect.
In reply to Dr_Jon, Jun 30, 2013

Dr_Jon wrote:

My GH3 certainly has a 29 minute 59 second video recording limit, in common with nearly all Video-capable DSLRs/DSLMs sold in Europe. (BTW I really quite like DSLM as a descriptive term for Mirrorless interchangeable lens cameras, which the M stands for, makes them seem to be more like DSLRs which some are.)

I wouldn't be surprised to find all the PAL versions have this limit. Also if they are doing it on the GH3 I'm sure their whole range has this limit.

The limit is imposed to stop the EU designated the camera as a video camera, and charging a higher rate of duty. All video-capable stills cameras have it. With some Pannys there's a hack to get round it

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Michael Meissner
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Re: I find Panasonic suffer from less JELLO effect.
In reply to Dr_Jon, Jun 30, 2013

Dr_Jon wrote:

My GH3 certainly has a 29 minute 59 second video recording limit, in common with nearly all Video-capable DSLRs/DSLMs sold in Europe. (BTW I really quite like DSLM as a descriptive term for Mirrorless interchangeable lens cameras, which the M stands for, makes them seem to be more like DSLRs which some are.)

I wouldn't be surprised to find all the PAL versions have this limit. Also if they are doing it on the GH3 I'm sure their whole range has this limit.

That's due to the European laws that classify anything that can shoot 1/2 hour of high definition video as a video camera, rather than a still camera.  Video cameras are subject to a higher import tax (I think it is 4-6%), and so camera companies tend to limit cameras that are not primarily video cameras to 29 minutes, 59 seconds, so they are not subject to the tax.

Some companies only limit camera models that are sold in Europe with a nearly identical model sold elsewhere, while other camera companies only have a single world wide model.  For point & shoot cameras, Panasonic tended to be in the first category, and Olympus in the second.

I tend to be of the opinion that Panasonic historically was a video camera company, and understands video and videographers needs.  On the other hand, Olympus comes to the table primarily as a maker of still cameras and understands better the needs of still photographers, particularly those of us that shoot with flash.

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Fredrik Glckner
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Re: major reasons for making panny better in video than oly
In reply to Guy Parsons, Jun 30, 2013

Guy Parsons wrote:

j9300 wrote:

oh, I see.

So, then unstable AF with shallow depth lens would happen to panny 4/3, too.

good to know!

Yes, C-AF will "pump" as it tries to settle on what it thinks is the right focus point

That said, I think the GH3 has come a long way regarding autofocus during video recording. I compared it with the GH2 in one Youtube video, and it is clear that the GH2 has to jog much more back and forth than the GH3 to confirm the focus.

http://m43photo.blogspot.com/2013/04/autofocus-during-video-comparison-gh2.html

The GH3 performs very impressively here, I think.

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Atlasman
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Re: I find Panasonic suffer from less JELLO effect.
In reply to Guy Parsons, Jun 30, 2013

Go and have a direct comparison between Pany OIS and Olympus IBIS here:

http://vimeo.com/67728197

From what I'm getting, the Olympus IBIS is far superior--especially for video.

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j9300
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Re: major reasons for making panny better in video than oly
In reply to Dr_Jon, Jun 30, 2013

thanks a lot!

Really helps!

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ryan2007
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Re: major reasons for making panny better in video than oly
In reply to j9300, Jun 30, 2013

j9300 wrote:

I was told that panny GF6 will be better than oly epl5 in video although they have same fps.

what makes the better quality in panny video compared to oly?

I experienced epl5 lose the focus frequently when shooting video. this does not happen in panny GF6??

First, they are two different companies that only share the same lens mount. FPS is a small part of the equation.

Past all the technical stuff I would say what exists today is not what Olympus wants to do on the video side.

Panasonic is also a company that makes video cameras. The Canon 5D Mark ii or iii is another option for a HDSLR that also does video. Canon makes a wide range of video cameras as well.

Specifically about the GF-6 I have not looked at specs yet.

If you are interested in video Black Magic Design is introducing a new video camera same size as the Panasonic GX-1 with MFT's lens mount. It will be a $1,000 camera body.

They will also have another cinema camera with MFT's lens mount and that body will be $3,000

Their is a third Black Magic camera called a production camera and that uses different lenses and costs even more.

http://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/blackmagicpocketcinemacamera/

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AllMankind
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Re: major reasons for making panny better in video than oly
In reply to j9300, Jun 30, 2013

j9300 wrote:

what makes the better quality in panny video compared to oly?

Panasonic has a long history in video (and film), something Olympus does not have.

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micronean
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Re: major reasons for making panny better in video than oly
In reply to AllMankind, Jun 30, 2013

AllMankind wrote:

j9300 wrote:

what makes the better quality in panny video compared to oly?

Panasonic has a long history in video (and film), something Olympus does not have.

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exactly. Panasonic also makes video cameras (and has done so for a long time). Olympus doesn't.

...I'm pretty sure if the topic was endoscopes, olympus would have a significant advantage over panasonic though...

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Guy Parsons
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Re: major reasons for making panny better in video than oly
In reply to micronean, Jun 30, 2013

micronean wrote:

exactly. Panasonic also makes video cameras (and has done so for a long time). Olympus doesn't.

...I'm pretty sure if the topic was endoscopes, olympus would have a significant advantage over panasonic though...

Though with endoscopes and the like the quality of the video image is really important, and Sony with Olympus are combining in that field due to the mutual company setup. Things like remote controlled surgery require high resolution 3D I guess, so there will be that expertise in the endoscope team. Maybe some of that expertise will leak through to the video in Oly stills cameras?

Regards..... Guy

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ntsan
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Re: major reasons for making panny better in video than oly
In reply to Guy Parsons, Jun 30, 2013

As other had said, Panasonic have much better codec/algorithm in terms of video over Olympus, Olympus's video is really bad when there are motions in the video, you get artifacts which ruins the shot E-M5 motion artifacts

Though the IBIS from E-M5 and E-P5 gives really good result in terms of stabilized footage especially when using prime lens, but their video function and quality feel like being slapped on

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Chris Noble
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Re: major reasons for making panny better in video than oly
In reply to Guy Parsons, Jun 30, 2013

Guy Parsons wrote:

micronean wrote:

exactly. Panasonic also makes video cameras (and has done so for a long time). Olympus doesn't.

...I'm pretty sure if the topic was endoscopes, olympus would have a significant advantage over panasonic though...

Though with endoscopes and the like the quality of the video image is really important.

Regards..... Guy

Where did you get that information? I've had a couple of those procedures, and the video quality is very poor. All the physician is looking for is an indication that there is something suspicious; they then snip a piece for analysis. They don't do any diagnosis based on the image itself, at least in my experience as a patient.

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