New info for the E-7...can you say mirrorless ?

Started Jun 29, 2013 | Discussions
Geo Wharton
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Re: m4/3rds adapter will be a hinderance
In reply to rovingtim, Jul 6, 2013

rovingtim wrote:

First of all, there are rumours of the 'pro' camera not needing an adapter. Two ways to do this: 1) have a built in extension or 2) move the sensor internally.

But even if the rumour is not true, a well built adapter will be same as if the camera had the 4/3rds register distance built in. All it has to do is provide the correct registration distance for the 4/3rds lenses while keeping the necessary electronic connections. Nothing is lost.

Correction - little is lost.

If your using light small lenses this may be true.  But if you are using larger heavier 4/3 lenses, the loss will be magnified. If you want to use either EC-14, EC-20, or EX-25, and an adapter to micro then now you have three mechanical fits between your lens and the camera body.  These have tolerance and movement.  The negligible amount of inaccuracy of one fit with a light lens is now greater and taken to the third power.  To make matters worse, in this case the micro 4/3 mount is smaller and weaker and the bodies are not as rigid as a larger pro camera body built for heavy duty.

This is my primary objection to going micro.

Otherwise, I will love the small compactness.  When the EVF is larger and good resolution as the newest one probably is (I haven't personally tried it), and they get CAF tracking to work well as the E-5, and there are some more respectable zooms for m4/3, then I will be in line too.

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altair8800
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really - no pro Micro Four Thirds
In reply to rovingtim, Jul 6, 2013

rovingtim wrote:

How about reading just a little bit further.

"At this moment, we cannot say anything for sure, because there are many possibilities -- it could be Micro Four Thirds, or Four Thirds, or somehow a hybrid."

By the way, about the size of the new camera he says this:

"We would also like to provide the benefits of a small body size. You may remember these policies were also a key part of the Four Thirds concept itself."

Just so people know what we are talking about, here is the interview:

http://www.imaging-resource.com/news/2012/09/27/qa-with-olympus-innovation-key-to-staying-ahead-of-mirrorless-competititon

While it is interesting to see him hedge later, "we think we still need the E-System to satisfy professional photographers" leaves no room for Micro Four Thirds professional.

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bobn2
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Re: really - no pro Micro Four Thirds
In reply to altair8800, Jul 6, 2013

altair8800 wrote:

rovingtim wrote:

How about reading just a little bit further.

"At this moment, we cannot say anything for sure, because there are many possibilities -- it could be Micro Four Thirds, or Four Thirds, or somehow a hybrid."

By the way, about the size of the new camera he says this:

"We would also like to provide the benefits of a small body size. You may remember these policies were also a key part of the Four Thirds concept itself."

Just so people know what we are talking about, here is the interview:

http://www.imaging-resource.com/news/2012/09/27/qa-with-olympus-innovation-key-to-staying-ahead-of-mirrorless-competititon

While it is interesting to see him hedge later, "we think we still need the E-System to satisfy professional photographers" leaves no room for Micro Four Thirds professional.

There is room for weasel words. The E-M5 is an 'E system' camera - it has an 'E' at the front.

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Bob

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rovingtim
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Re: m4/3rds adapter will be a hinderance
In reply to Geo Wharton, Jul 7, 2013

Of course, this depends on how close the tolerances are. It is possible to make something with high enough quality that even with the slack taken to the third power, it is still within design specifications. And small does not necessarily correlate with weakness.

However, your point is a good one. With more parts there is always more room for something to go wrong.

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Messier Object
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Re: m4/3rds adapter will be a hinderance
In reply to Geo Wharton, Jul 7, 2013

There is no guarantee that Olympus will support stacked adapters as they may screw up the AF.
So there might not be a need to worry about your EC-xx and EX-25 having the wobbles, they might not work at all !

Peter

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R2elk
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Re: m4/3rds adapter will be a hinderance
In reply to Messier Object, Jul 7, 2013

Messier Object wrote:

There is no guarantee that Olympus will support stacked adapters as they may screw up the AF.
So there might not be a need to worry about your EC-xx and EX-25 having the wobbles, they might not work at all !

Peter

Currently Olympus allows the adaptors (EC-xx and EC-25) to work with their m43 adaptors but they strongly recommend against their use with the m43 adaptors.

A camera that does not allow the use of these adaptors would have absolutely no value to me.

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Comments and critiques always welcome.
Bob K.

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altair8800
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Re: really - no pro Micro Four Thirds
In reply to bobn2, Jul 8, 2013

Bobn2 wrote:

altair8800 wrote:

rovingtim wrote:

How about reading just a little bit further.

"At this moment, we cannot say anything for sure, because there are many possibilities -- it could be Micro Four Thirds, or Four Thirds, or somehow a hybrid."

By the way, about the size of the new camera he says this:

"We would also like to provide the benefits of a small body size. You may remember these policies were also a key part of the Four Thirds concept itself."

Just so people know what we are talking about, here is the interview:

http://www.imaging-resource.com/news/2012/09/27/qa-with-olympus-innovation-key-to-staying-ahead-of-mirrorless-competititon

While it is interesting to see him hedge later, "we think we still need the E-System to satisfy professional photographers" leaves no room for Micro Four Thirds professional.

There is room for weasel words. The E-M5 is an 'E system' camera - it has an 'E' at the front.

Yes, I guess the first part is still needed:

Ogawa: "Of course, we're reaching a high level of performance with our Micro Four Thirds mirrorless product, but we are still not satisfied with these at the professional level. That's why we think we still need the E-System to satisfy professional photographers."

He is clearly separating Micro Four Thirds mirrorless from E-System and I think only the E-1,3,5 series are considered professional level.

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bobn2
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Re: really - no pro Micro Four Thirds
In reply to altair8800, Jul 8, 2013

altair8800 wrote:

Bobn2 wrote:

altair8800 wrote:

rovingtim wrote:

How about reading just a little bit further.

"At this moment, we cannot say anything for sure, because there are many possibilities -- it could be Micro Four Thirds, or Four Thirds, or somehow a hybrid."

By the way, about the size of the new camera he says this:

"We would also like to provide the benefits of a small body size. You may remember these policies were also a key part of the Four Thirds concept itself."

Just so people know what we are talking about, here is the interview:

http://www.imaging-resource.com/news/2012/09/27/qa-with-olympus-innovation-key-to-staying-ahead-of-mirrorless-competititon

While it is interesting to see him hedge later, "we think we still need the E-System to satisfy professional photographers" leaves no room for Micro Four Thirds professional.

There is room for weasel words. The E-M5 is an 'E system' camera - it has an 'E' at the front.

Yes, I guess the first part is still needed:

Ogawa: "Of course, we're reaching a high level of performance with our Micro Four Thirds mirrorless product, but we are still not satisfied with these at the professional level. That's why we think we still need the E-System to satisfy professional photographers."

He is clearly separating Micro Four Thirds mirrorless from E-System and I think only the E-1,3,5 series are considered professional level.

But that makes it look like 'still need the E-System just until we're satisfied with Micro Four Thirds at the Professional level' and of course since the 'Professional level' means nothing at all, that can be tomorrow if they choose. All it means is 'we keep the E-5 and FT lenses in the catalogue for now'.

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Bob

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altair8800
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Re: really - no pro Micro Four Thirds
In reply to bobn2, Jul 8, 2013

Bobn2 wrote:

altair8800 wrote:

Bobn2 wrote:

altair8800 wrote:

rovingtim wrote:

How about reading just a little bit further.

"At this moment, we cannot say anything for sure, because there are many possibilities -- it could be Micro Four Thirds, or Four Thirds, or somehow a hybrid."

By the way, about the size of the new camera he says this:

"We would also like to provide the benefits of a small body size. You may remember these policies were also a key part of the Four Thirds concept itself."

Just so people know what we are talking about, here is the interview:

http://www.imaging-resource.com/news/2012/09/27/qa-with-olympus-innovation-key-to-staying-ahead-of-mirrorless-competititon

While it is interesting to see him hedge later, "we think we still need the E-System to satisfy professional photographers" leaves no room for Micro Four Thirds professional.

There is room for weasel words. The E-M5 is an 'E system' camera - it has an 'E' at the front.

Yes, I guess the first part is still needed:

Ogawa: "Of course, we're reaching a high level of performance with our Micro Four Thirds mirrorless product, but we are still not satisfied with these at the professional level. That's why we think we still need the E-System to satisfy professional photographers."

He is clearly separating Micro Four Thirds mirrorless from E-System and I think only the E-1,3,5 series are considered professional level.

But that makes it look like 'still need the E-System just until we're satisfied with Micro Four Thirds at the Professional level' and of course since the 'Professional level' means nothing at all, that can be tomorrow if they choose. All it means is 'we keep the E-5 and FT lenses in the catalogue for now'.

Here is from another interview:

"Watanabe was unable to confirm whether the camera would be a traditional DSLR type design or a mirrorless device.

Speaking about the challenges faced by DSLRs in a marketplace where compact system cameras are becoming ever more popular, he said that two key technologies need to be improved before DSLRs will be superseded - the AF system and the EVF.

He said that continuous autofocus was the biggest challenge, while EVFs needed to have a higher resolution, faster frame rates and better contrast."

Do you think they will delay a "Pro" camera until those problems are solved, or just put the E-M5 sensor in a E-5 (call it E-7) and tweak the AF?

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bobn2
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Re: really - no pro Micro Four Thirds
In reply to altair8800, Jul 8, 2013

altair8800 wrote:

Bobn2 wrote:

altair8800 wrote:

Bobn2 wrote:

altair8800 wrote:

rovingtim wrote:

How about reading just a little bit further.

"At this moment, we cannot say anything for sure, because there are many possibilities -- it could be Micro Four Thirds, or Four Thirds, or somehow a hybrid."

By the way, about the size of the new camera he says this:

"We would also like to provide the benefits of a small body size. You may remember these policies were also a key part of the Four Thirds concept itself."

Just so people know what we are talking about, here is the interview:

http://www.imaging-resource.com/news/2012/09/27/qa-with-olympus-innovation-key-to-staying-ahead-of-mirrorless-competititon

While it is interesting to see him hedge later, "we think we still need the E-System to satisfy professional photographers" leaves no room for Micro Four Thirds professional.

There is room for weasel words. The E-M5 is an 'E system' camera - it has an 'E' at the front.

Yes, I guess the first part is still needed:

Ogawa: "Of course, we're reaching a high level of performance with our Micro Four Thirds mirrorless product, but we are still not satisfied with these at the professional level. That's why we think we still need the E-System to satisfy professional photographers."

He is clearly separating Micro Four Thirds mirrorless from E-System and I think only the E-1,3,5 series are considered professional level.

But that makes it look like 'still need the E-System just until we're satisfied with Micro Four Thirds at the Professional level' and of course since the 'Professional level' means nothing at all, that can be tomorrow if they choose. All it means is 'we keep the E-5 and FT lenses in the catalogue for now'.

Here is from another interview:

"Watanabe was unable to confirm whether the camera would be a traditional DSLR type design or a mirrorless device.

Speaking about the challenges faced by DSLRs in a marketplace where compact system cameras are becoming ever more popular, he said that two key technologies need to be improved before DSLRs will be superseded - the AF system and the EVF.

He said that continuous autofocus was the biggest challenge, while EVFs needed to have a higher resolution, faster frame rates and better contrast."

Do you think they will delay a "Pro" camera until those problems are solved, or just put the E-M5 sensor in a E-5 (call it E-7) and tweak the AF?

I think that rates as an extended 'no comment'. My own view is that there is more likely an E-M7 than an E-7. The deal with Sony (both deals) might give them on-sensor PDAF (and Olympus has a decent patent on that it could trade as part of the deal) and I think that there will be a next gen EVF that will be better. Even so, the mFT mount register at 19.25mm has room for a 13mm reflex mirror (even without turning it sideways like a Pen F or E300) perhaps not with the AF gubbins on the back, but maybe with sensor PDAF that wouldn't be needed. There would also be room for a SLT like configuration (though that merges the worst features of DSLR and mirrorless, IMO). So, Olympus has options. I think the most likely is mFT, EVF and on-sensor PDAF.

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Bob

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