What prevents you from moving to a mirrorless camera?

Started Jun 26, 2013 | Polls
Midwest
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Re: What prevents you from moving to a mirrorless camera?
In reply to Sonyshine, Jun 27, 2013

Sonyshine wrote:

jrtrent wrote:

Sonyshine wrote:

I think the main reason people don't move to mirrorless is just ignorance.

Once you have really tried a decent system you will become hooked on them!

For decades, my preference in a viewing system has been a through-the-lens, optical viewfinder with at least close to 100% coverage. I haven't particularly liked the EVF's I've tried, and I don't want to put up with an 85% coverage optical finder, or one mounted to an accessory shoe with parallax error. My opinion is that the viewfinder is the single most important user interface on a camera, so if you don't have one you enjoy using, photography becomes less enjoyable. I can put up with LCD viewing to gain the compactness and other virtues of a shirt-pocketable, waterproof camera, but mirrorless models don't seem to offer anything of value to me sufficient to put up with not having an SLR viewing system.

I agree the viewfinder is very important indeed. That is why I don't like old fashion holes to peep through. Modern EVF's with all their pre chimping are just brilliant! They make it so much easier to get your shots right first time.

I leave it up to my camera's metering and autofocus systems to do their jobs properly without me babysitting each of them before every shot. I need a viewfinder that is in real-time and sees just as I see the scene directly. I don't want a viewfinder that freezes up during 'burst' shooting so that I can no longer see what is really in front of the lens, just a 'sample' shot from the start of the burst.

The viewfinder is too important to waste it trying to babysit the camera to make sure everything is perfect. If you're shooting fruit bowls or flowers then that might not matter so much and you can dawdle over each shot before you take it. Many of my 'photo ops' are not going to sit still while I puff my pipe and twiddle with the white balance. Others who wish to, more power to 'em.

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plevyadophy
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Re: An emotion laden term...
In reply to Joseph S Wisniewski, Jun 27, 2013

Joseph S Wisniewski wrote:

Glen Barrington called the kettle black wrote:

I don't see its use furthering your cause. Feel free to continue to use it if you want, but I don't see it making people WANT to use a mirrorless.

Seriously, you can write this

  • No one will take me seriously as a photographer. For that you need a DSLR.
  • They're for women's purses.

and take someone else to task for using "an emotion laden term" and not "furthering" a "cause". I'm impressed.

And the "this is just for fun" disclaimer has no more weight than hate speech with a smiley at the end.

You made impassioned "You all suck. I'm out of here forever" speeches on two different occasions. Why not keep that promise, instead of hanging around and trolling constantly?

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I think you are wrong to take the OP to task (or imply hypocrisy on his part) for adding those two items to the Poll because ..................... unfortunately, both those sentiments have been expressed in the past, and the first one (re DSLR) is a feeling that often still come across.

So I think it's right that the OP add those options and allow folks to be honest as to what their feelings are.

The only problem I find with the Poll is that there isn't the facility to select more than one option if more than one thing bothers you.

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003tvd
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Re: What prevents you from moving to a mirrorless camera?
In reply to Glen Barrington, Jun 27, 2013

so far, what prevents me from going mirrorless is, need, budget, and the lack of "meaty" feel in my paws. None of them gives me the "ooooh, I gotta have one" feeling yet.

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plevyadophy
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Banned! Re: My answer not on your list...
In reply to zackiedawg, Jun 27, 2013

zackiedawg wrote:

The only thing preventing me from moving entirely to a mirrorless system is that I don't really want to. I simply enjoy DSLRs for mutiple reasons, and find they are still best for me for certain types of photography...the combination of large body, big grip, lots of controls, optical viewfinder, big buffer, huge battery life, fast PDAF with good tracking ability just make it a tool that works well for my needs and preferences.

At the same time, I already long ago bought into the mirrorless systems - and am on my second generation mirrorless interchangeable lens model - I find them to be a pleasure to use, with IQ a match for DSLR, size and weight a wonderful convenience and much easier to carry or hike with, and perfect to either ride alongside the DSLR or take its place when the size and weight savings are important.

I can't see myself leaving either the DSLR arena OR the mirrorless arena - I love them both, and find that since there is no single perfect camera, having two cameras with perfectly complimentary shortcomings results in having a perfect photography combination.

As a human, I'm an adaptable species, so I'm capable of enjoying and using both large and small bodies, larger and smaller lenses, mirrored cameras and mirrorless cameras, OVFs and EVFs...and I don't consider them directly comparable tools - both get the job done with certain advantages and disadvantages.

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Midwest
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Re: What prevents you from moving to a mirrorless camera?
In reply to Glen Barrington, Jun 27, 2013

Glen Barrington wrote:

I've been to Rhode Island. . .

LOL. But my point is just that if you're not looking to move (to Rhode Island, or anyplace else, or to a different camera type) nothing is preventing you. You're not looking to make the move.

Nothing is preventing me from taking banjo lessons, but I don't.

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Midwest
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Re: An emotion laden term...
In reply to plevyadophy, Jun 27, 2013

plevyadophy wrote:

I think it's right that the OP add those options and allow folks to be honest as to what their feelings are.

The only problem I find with the Poll is that there isn't the facility to select more than one option if more than one thing bothers you.

There also isn't the facility to prevent mirrorless users from taking the poll and choosing silly answers to make DSLR users look foolish.

It's like if I made a poll about 'why do you like mirrorless so much?' and anyone could choose from answers including 'because they are cute'... 'because I'm so out of shape I can't lift more than six ounces'... 'because I can't figure out how to use a more complicated camera...'

As long as the poll is open to anyone to vote on, the results are not worth the pixels they're displayed on.

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Midwest
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Re: What prevents you from moving to a mirrorless camera?
In reply to 003tvd, Jun 27, 2013

003tvd wrote:

so far, what prevents me from going mirrorless is, need, budget, and the lack of "meaty" feel in my paws. None of them gives me the "ooooh, I gotta have one" feeling yet.

Some of them are very nifty gizmos but I don't want a nifty gizmo to take pictures with.

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robert1955
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is that a gun you're carrying or ...
In reply to Glen Barrington, Jun 27, 2013

Glen Barrington wrote:

Everyone is going on about how people aren't buying mirrorless cameras in the amounts that the industry expected them to, and how they seem to be more popular in Asia than in Europe and North America I wanted some clue as to why. Getting information from people who HAVE purchased a mirrorless camera didn't seem pertinent to the question.

You won't be getting any clue this way, but as this was only for amusement [for a certain value of amusement] that is no big deal. The right answer is of course 'not macho enough, I have to show that I still at least get a big camera up' which is sort of a combination of the last two items on your list

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ultimitsu
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Re: What prevents you from moving to a mirrorless camera?
In reply to Glen Barrington, Jun 27, 2013

Glen Barrington wrote:

I tried to list the objections I recall reading about in the past. I didn't include or exclude any because I thought they were particularly cogent or stupid; I'm looking for people's honest beliefs regardless of what "I" think of those beliefs.

I give you three of mine:

1, most good mirrorless primes are significantly more expensive than 35mm format equals. for example check the price of oly 75mm F1.8 against Canon and nikon 85mm F1.8. check the price of nikon 1 32mm F1.2.

2, Canon and nikon mirrorless lack native support for their DX format lenses. what I want is the sort of straight forward compatibility we saw in Pentax K-01. unfortunately for K-01, due to other reasons it was not a success. I think having to spend a few hundred dollars on a ugly adapter to be able to use EF-S lenses on EOS-M is a deal breaker.

3, Battery life is too short. I am very accustomed to the battery life of DSLR, takng a big step backward on battery life is very unappealing to me.

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REShultz
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Re: What prevents you from moving to a mirrorless camera?
In reply to charleyd, Jun 27, 2013

charleyd wrote:

None of the reasons listed. They simply aren't necessary. We already have the best of all worlds available to us. This is just another revenue source for the camera manufacturers. I know this is the way economics works. But, where does it stop? Until there is invented a totally new way of capturing an image, the current technology and devices are more than capable. What we have works brilliantly. What does mirrorless contribute to our picture taking? In my mind, nothing. It is the same technology repackaged. Will it help make my/your photos better? Hardly. I am all for technological advancement, it is what has gotten us to these glorious times.

For those of us who travel, smaller is important. A few weeks ago I was backpacking at 15k feet and the last thing I would have wanted would have been a bulky kit. In fact, one wouldn't have fit into my pack unless essentials like food/clothes were left out.

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Old Ed
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Re: One Off, One On...
In reply to Glen Barrington, Jun 27, 2013

Not on the list: Overpriced lenses.

On the list: Focusing concerns re moving subjects. (Nikon I may be OK on this, but I don't like the system otherwise.)

However: I'd really like to go MILC, and I'm always looking at new announcements and road tests.

Happy shooting...

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qianp2k
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Re: What prevents you from moving to a mirrorless camera?
In reply to Glen Barrington, Jun 27, 2013

For me lacking of equivalent lenses, EVF/CDAF and handing/ergonomic and inferior IQ (compared to FF) are main reasons.  Therefore I still prefer a Canon DSLR to backup my 5DIII as it's ready to use all my EF lenses without requiring an adapter (such as in EOS-M case).  60D is my backup camera in travel at this moment but I may pickup SR1/100D later.

There are simply no equivalent lenses as 24-70L II, 70-200L II (also 70-200L/4.0 IS) and 17mm TS-E, the Canon Trinity in my bag, 15mm FE, 100-400L, Sigma 150mm/2.8 macro OS and 500L with 1.4x TC III if necessary.  No match from many mirrorless to 5DIII AF (also own 1DIII) speed and tracking capability. With above lenses, 5DIII has much better IQ and much higher chance to capture moments than any mirrorless with whatever lenses they could use.

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TrapperJohn
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Not necessarily...
In reply to Sonyshine, Jun 27, 2013

I love my OMD, but it's not for everyone, nor is a NEX6, or an XE1, or a V1, or a GH3, or...

If you absolutely must have the absolutely best IQ under all circumstances, a D800 or 5DIII is better. So is a *sigh* M9... For me, the IQ difference between the OMD and those very respectable outfits isn't enough to justify the additional expense and bulk. For others, it is.

If you have a substantial investment in high end glass for a Canon outfit, or Nikon, or Pentax, or Leica, you won't find equvalents for all of them on the mirrorless platforms. You can use Leica M on any of the mirrorless bodies, but if you already have an M9, why bother?

Maybe you like the extra DOF control of a FF sensor, especially if you're into portraits, still life, and street. You can shrink the body, but you can't really shrink the glass for a large sensor.

Speaking of larger glass, even with M43, they haven't been able to really shrink a fast zoom without losing some IQ in the process. Panasonic did an amazing job shrinking their 35-100 F2.8, but it is no match for the ZD 35-100 F2 in the IQ department. One can, in many cases, adapt existing fast DSLR zooms to a micro body, but the result tends to be very clumsy handling, as EOS-M owners are finding when they mount longer L glass, and I found when I put fast ZD zooms on a Pen body. The OMD solves that quite nicely with a battery grip, so does the GH3, but most mirrorless bodies are just too small to comfortably use with larger lenses.

Or maybe you're just comfortable with what you have. If it does what you want, why change?

The EVF seems to be an issue with some. My personal experience is - it's not really an issue. The best EVF's are good enough that you tend to forget they're an EVF after a while.

Personally, I believe that most high end amateurs and enthusiasts would find a micro/mirrorless setup to be a terrific addition to their current kit. But, even with M43's extensive glass collection, it's probably not a full replacement at this time, and may never be for some, depending upon their preferred style.

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Glen Barrington
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Let's end this thread now
In reply to Glen Barrington, Jun 27, 2013

For those who have complained about the poll infrastructure, I had no part in that. It's not my fault we cant add poll questions after the fact, it's not my fault we cant check multiple selections, and it's not my fault we can't prevent dopes and the terminally irritable from posting. I'm just a user like you, trying out a new feature offered to users. If you got a problem with how the poll feature is set up, take it up with DPR. Complaining to me can yield little in the way of results.

If I didn't ask YOUR question, Sorry!  Create your own poll.

Now lets review the results:

  • Lack of OVF/EVF or other framing issues  22.2% 16 votes
  • The Image Quality just isn't there             9.7%  7 votes
  • Don't like the lens selection                    13.9% 10 votes
  • Too slow to focus or other functional speed issues  20.8% 15 votes
  • No FF                                                 18.1% 13 votes
  • Lack of manual focus or other decent manual controls 2.8% 2 votes
  • they're ugly                                           0.0%  0 votes
  • No one will take me seriously as a photographer. For that, you need a DSLR   4.2% 3 votes
  • They're for women's purses.                      8.3%  6 votes

Can we learn anything from this?  I don't know.

The good news is no one thinks they are ugly and less than 3% worry about the manual controls.

More than 1/5th of the respondents say a viewfinder or some other framing issue is a major impediment to adopting. While almost 1/5th think the lack of Full Frame is a problem for them.  And roughly 20% think the things are just too slow to operate.  Assuming the respondents aren't lying that might mean if the mirrorless manufacturers address those three issues, they might have a chance of capturing a big chunk of those who haven't adopted mirrorless yet.  I wouldn't state that as fact, but certainly, It is something the manufacturers ought to investigate more!

If you add the lens selection and Image quality together, that also adds up to more than 20% of the respondents.  I think it's fair to do that, my reasoning is lenses are a key component of both image quality and 'reach'. To me, that says a large chunk of people simply don't believe they can get the same quality of photo from a mirrorless as something else and/or they will have to work harder to get the same image.

Roughly 11% either think a mirrorless is not a serious camera, or is too 'girly' for them.  Are these respondents jokesters or crackpots?  I don't know, but the manufacturers need to find out who the likely buyers are going to be at this point, and determine if they have an image issue.

I don't think we should be able to add new questions after the fact, that will skew the results.  Everyone should have the same options.  Multiple selections are problematic for simple polls and too hard for amateurs to analyze if they want to.

I also don't think crackpots, dopes and the grumpy should be filtered out.  Over time, you discover who they are; I don't think they significantly affect the results, and who at DPR should be on crackpot patrol anyway?

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brianric
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Re: What prevents you from moving to a mirrorless camera?
In reply to Sonyshine, Jun 27, 2013

Sonyshine wrote:

I think the main reason people don't move to mirrorless is just ignorance.

Once you have really tried a decent system you will become hooked on them!

The ignorance is on your part. Mirrorless won't cover a bicycle rider crossing the finish line at 30 mph. Mirrorless won't cover kids running down a basketball court in a dimly lit court.

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Geoff_B
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Re: What prevents you from moving to a mirrorless camera?
In reply to brianric, Jun 27, 2013

Mirror or mirrorless...I don't really care. I want a responsive camera that gets sharp images and handles low light well. The XE-1 is an intriguing idea, and I've seen some very nice prints made from that camera. The size would be nice for street/documentary stuff, which I mainly shoot. But I will probably end up with another DSLR...probably a D800, and shoot with primes like I've been doing. I want to get back to shooting more film, so I plan to pick up an old rangefinder. They sell for next to nothing and there's great glass on some of those cameras.

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Philnw2
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Re: What prevents you from moving to a mirrorless camera?
In reply to Geoff_B, Jun 27, 2013

I already did as you can see from my signature.  Love the grip on the Sony Nex 5n.  And for casual shooting around town, i always take it.  Plus for backpacking - not going to carry my Pentax dslr -anymore.  But for indoor promo and dress rehearsal live performance shoots, its the K5 dslr.  Sony doesn't have the zoom lens for the e-mount mirrorless.  The ones they do are often at f6.3 towards the tele end.  hardly suitable for indoor or evening shoots.

Alas, there is no perfect camera - i guess.  But i do like my Sony - oh hell i like both my cameras

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Sonyshine
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Re: The word "ignorance" is an emotion laden term. . .
In reply to Midwest, Jun 27, 2013

I'm quite partial to decent mashed potato! 

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aja2
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Need you be so condescending?
In reply to Sonyshine, Jun 27, 2013

The camera world isn't black & white, so calling those who don't adopt your preferred system, 'ignorant' is.. well, ________. I'll let others who disagree with you fill in their own blank.

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Martin.au
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Re: What prevents you from moving to a mirrorless camera?
In reply to brianric, Jun 27, 2013

brianric wrote:

Sonyshine wrote:

I think the main reason people don't move to mirrorless is just ignorance.

Once you have really tried a decent system you will become hooked on them!

The ignorance is on your part. Mirrorless won't cover a bicycle rider crossing the finish line at 30 mph. Mirrorless won't cover kids running down a basketball court in a dimly lit court.

Rubbish.

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