About moderation - Feedback

Started Jun 24, 2013 | Discussions
Kendall Helmstetter Gelner
Forum ProPosts: 18,170Gear list
Like?
An even more reasonable question
In reply to Detail Man, Jun 29, 2013

Detail Man wrote:

<...>What is actually motivating these people to allegedly "work for free" ?

What is motivating any user to post helpful advice in a forum anywhere? They too are working for free. How is that any different?

The internet is chock full of people helping other people for free. If I go to http://www.khanacademy.org, I can watch 3000+ videos providing education on a wide variety of topics, all for free.

Indeed looking across the internet, free is the norm and paid is the exception.  If you go to just about any site for help you expect it to be free.  If you send a message on twitter looking for help from followers you do not deposit $1 to tweet.

People love helping other people, a fact which the internet has channeled to grand effect.  It's simply human nature to help others for no personal gain.

 Kendall Helmstetter Gelner's gear list:Kendall Helmstetter Gelner's gear list
Sigma 70-200mm F2.8 EX DG OS HSM Sigma 8-16mm F4.5-5.6 DC HSM Sigma 24-70mm F2.8 EX DG HSM Sigma 50-500mm F4.5-6.3 DG OS HSM Sigma 85mm F1.4 EX DG HSM +4 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
bosjohn21
Senior MemberPosts: 4,493
Like?
Re: About moderation - Feedback
In reply to quadrox, Jun 29, 2013

quadrox wrote:

You want to make all the rules and do not want to know what the other forum members have to say. This is your right of course (or more precisely, DPRs right), but this way lies malcontent for many of us. Therefore I am creating this thread to bring some much needed balance.

I am not doing this out of hostility, I am doing this so that you can understand my/other members thoughts. You guys are probably doing a load of good that I am not even aware of right now, but it feels like I would rather have fewer moderators than some of the mods we have today.

So let me respond to your post to be a bit more clear about what I see as a problem.

How to volunteer moderating works :

1. We're volunteers, so try to remember we don't have unlimited time to double check everything, read everything or read your minds. We do as best we can with limited time.

With power comes responsibility - it must be so. If you are not dead certain of a wrongdoing and you do not have the time to investigate or analyse, then don't take any action. If you wan't to hide behind "I'm only a volunteer, I don't have time to do this properly" then please just do not do anything.

2. If you have an issue related to a moderator you feel strongly about then the ONLY legitimate ways to deal with it are either PM the moderator in reasonably civil terms and explain your position or contact an administrator using Feedback. That's all there is. Any public attacks or multiple personal messages threatening or abusing moderators will at best get you ignored and at worst banned.

I agree with the public attacks part, but being unable to make your voice heard in a case of perceived injustice feels like you are an oppresive bunch of dictators. Even if you all just do your best, this is how it is perceived. Flaming/trolling/abuse should of course not be tolerated, but a civilized discussion should definitely be allowed.

3. We are normal members. We ARE entitled to express our views in threads. [...]

For the most part yes. But remember, with power comes responsibility. If you do not want the responsibility of making sure your post is not misunderstood as authorative, then you should not be a moderator - and I have seen a post of yours recently that was not stated so much as an opinion but a statement of fact. I know it was meant to be an opinion, but as moderator (I think) you must work even harder than everyone else to make this clear.

4. We don't get paid. We don't get anything material from this. If that kind of work interests you then contact DPR. They'd love a larger pool of moderators. People do leave - it's stressful and time consuming.

I would not mind being a mod, and being fair. Not sure that DPR wants me though.

5. We are subject to oversight from DPR. I can't give you details, but we do pool our information and we do have a private moderator forum. Admins do over-rule us sometimes. We basically don't care if they do because ultimately it's their website.

Ok.

6. To the best of my knowledge DPR has never tried to influence what moderators post outside of things that directly relate to moderation. We are not toeing a party line.

I am not sure, but I doubt that this what is being complained about.

7. Although moderators can edit any post any time, I have seen this done only on very rare occasions. We are not seeking to censor or to control what is said beyond trying to maintain a reasonably civil forum. It would be as dull as dishwater otherwise.

Ok.

I have heard much about the rules and the feedback forum but there is no link to either the rules or the feedback forum in the main forums menu. Is this an oversite? I should think you would want these to be easilly found. I have just spent half an hour looking for the rules with no luck.

i humbly suggest that at least one thing you can do is to include rules and feedback in the main forum menu

-- hide signature --

John aka bosjohn21

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Deleted1929
Forum ProPosts: 13,050
Like?
Re: About moderation - Feedback
In reply to bosjohn21, Jun 29, 2013

There is no Feedback Forum.  There is a Feedback page where you send feedback to DPR.  The link is at the bottom of every page.

The rules are linked to on the top of the forum listings AND in the text above the editor pane.  I can see the link in blue ( embedded in a white on black text as I type this ).

-- hide signature --

StephenG

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
bosjohn21
Senior MemberPosts: 4,493
Like?
Re: Moderator Note : For the record
In reply to Deleted1929, Jun 29, 2013

sjgcit wrote:

I don't know specifically what all moderators do and specific instances will always have exceptions, but AFAIK we generally try to inform the member involved why actions are taken.

> It also would likely promote more civil responses from the user and create useful dialog.

Firstly moderators are not obliged to enter a dialog. It's not a democracy and people need to stop trying to convince themselves it is. Moderators are there to make decisions which are not, practically by definition, going to be popular or agreed with by the people on the receiving end.

For example, anyone under the impression that someone whose post has been deleted for trolling is going to engage in a useful dialog with a moderator is, I can tell you from personal experience, going to get a rude awakening.

In any case, as a matter of practical reality volunteer moderators do not have the time to litigate their way through endless pseudo-legal claptrap that we do indeed get from members determined to change our minds.

This isn't court, we're not judges and you're not lawyers. We're moderators and we make decisions based on our common sense interpretation of rules. Don't like those decisions ? Take it up with the Admins via Feedback.

That's how it works. Simple.

-- hide signature --

StephenG

That there is a problem here at dpreview is evident from the numerous threads like the one in whcih we are engaged, thinking everythins is hunky dory is burrying our collective heads in the sand,

but as the moderators have pointed out, and I feel quite well; its not, as stated above, a democracy.

In the few actions that have directly affected me I have received full explinations from the mods as to why an action was taken, while I think one or two silly there it is. They were doing what they signed on to do.

We as the generaly posters have no recourse for redress beyond what the owners allow. We are guests here. guests of the owners and should keep that in mind. we have no rights other than the rights granted by the owners and administration.

But yes I know there is always a but.

There is a direct corolation between rules and thier administration and the vitality of a forum.

more rules and stricter enforcment make for a peacful but unexciting experience, fewer rules and looser enforcment will encourage more dynamic and exciting and make for a less diciplined forum. It is up to you, the moderators to shape the experience here. Your the ones responsible for setting the level of tolerance and accomodation. I am assuming you have met with eachother and have a good idea of where you want this experience to go.

what kind of forum do you want? ( in this case you is a collective pronoun) it your call, but to make the best call you need to know what we participants want as well as the owners. If you don't listen to the unwashed masses of we posters you run the risk of the whole thing whithering on the vine.

I came to dpreview a short time before the Leica M8 was introduced in 2006 and have been here on and off since. I participate here out of a love of photography, a desire to learn and to contribute, but mostly I come here to have fun, fun to meet with friends on the Leica forum, fun to have livly debates, fun to share photos with my fellow Leica forumers, fun to learn etc.

I am guessing I am not much different than most other posters, We have a very interesting mix of well educated pro and amateur photographers here united by our love of making images.

But if the forums become over moderated to the point they loose their vitality I will porbably leave.

You have a tough row to hoe in keeping order and allowing free discourse. I would urge you as an unwritten rule of thumb if your going to error error on the side of less moderation rather than more.

So even though we have not legal standing and its you and the administration who will set the tone of the forums it has beed determined by the owners that the forums are very very good for business and increase the traffic at dpreview  so do not think for a moment we have no leverage.

-- hide signature --

John aka bosjohn21

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
bosjohn21
Senior MemberPosts: 4,493
Like?
Re: About moderation - Feedback
In reply to Deleted1929, Jun 29, 2013

sjgcit wrote:

There is no Feedback Forum. There is a Feedback page where you send feedback to DPR. The link is at the bottom of every page.

The rules are linked to on the top of the forum listings AND in the text above the editor pane. I can see the link in blue ( embedded in a white on black text as I type this ).

-- hide signature --

StephenG

thanks I found the feed back but i am still not seeing anything in blue for the rules

-- hide signature --

John aka bosjohn21

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Kendall Helmstetter Gelner
Forum ProPosts: 18,170Gear list
Like?
Think of all possible forum readers, and efficiency
In reply to lenshoarder, Jun 29, 2013

lenshoarder wrote:

More importantly, most forums allow users to ignore other users. So if someone "trolls", simply ignore them and they can't troll you since you don't even see their posts. Some prefer to censor what others write. I think it's better that we simply censor what we choose to read.

That helps you, but ignores a huge number of people that read DPReview without ever creating an account.  They don't know who is a troll.  If they decide someone is a troll they cannot block them from future reading (because they have no account).

You have to remember that inherently each forum is a body of work meant to help ALL people interested in the forum topic, not just one person or even registered users only.  So all moderation should err on the side of making threads generally useful to readers in that forum who are there specifically for the topic the forum is built around.

Trolling and flamewars do not help the causal reader coming in to learn more about the subject under discussion.  On top of that it is really inefficient for each user to have to individually figure out what is trolling and flaming and so on.  Instead it makes a lot more sense to have a small handful of dedicated forum readers who understand every subtlety of a forum and the users posting there, to help shape as useful and interesting a stream of information as possible for everyone to enjoy.

 Kendall Helmstetter Gelner's gear list:Kendall Helmstetter Gelner's gear list
Sigma 70-200mm F2.8 EX DG OS HSM Sigma 8-16mm F4.5-5.6 DC HSM Sigma 24-70mm F2.8 EX DG HSM Sigma 50-500mm F4.5-6.3 DG OS HSM Sigma 85mm F1.4 EX DG HSM +4 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
bosjohn21
Senior MemberPosts: 4,493
Like?
Re: About moderation - Feedback
In reply to Deleted1929, Jun 29, 2013

sjgcit wrote:

There is no Feedback Forum. There is a Feedback page where you send feedback to DPR. The link is at the bottom of every page.

The rules are linked to on the top of the forum listings AND in the text above the editor pane. I can see the link in blue ( embedded in a white on black text as I type this ).

-- hide signature --

StephenG

ok I found it the rules

-- hide signature --

John aka bosjohn21

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Kendall Helmstetter Gelner
Forum ProPosts: 18,170Gear list
Like?
On Excitement
In reply to bosjohn21, Jun 29, 2013

bosjohn21 wrote:

more rules and stricter enforcment make for a peacful but unexciting experience

Watching buildings be demolished is very exciting.

But you can only do that so often before you have no city.

At some point you have to allow time for buildings, cities, and communities to be built.

Even if it's not exciting, more comes from it in the long run.

 Kendall Helmstetter Gelner's gear list:Kendall Helmstetter Gelner's gear list
Sigma 70-200mm F2.8 EX DG OS HSM Sigma 8-16mm F4.5-5.6 DC HSM Sigma 24-70mm F2.8 EX DG HSM Sigma 50-500mm F4.5-6.3 DG OS HSM Sigma 85mm F1.4 EX DG HSM +4 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
bosjohn21
Senior MemberPosts: 4,493
Like?
Re: On Excitement
In reply to Kendall Helmstetter Gelner, Jun 29, 2013

Kendall Helmstetter Gelner wrote:

bosjohn21 wrote:

more rules and stricter enforcment make for a peacful but unexciting experience

Watching buildings be demolished is very exciting.

But you can only do that so often before you have no city.

At some point you have to allow time for buildings, cities, and communities to be built.

Even if it's not exciting, more comes from it in the long run.

I dont understand the buildings being demolished reference. I am not advocating anarchy only pointing out how moderation can effect our experience. I prefer a more livly forum because I have developed a thinkish skin over the years others will feel more comfortable with strict rules and dicipline. but I what I think I am hearing is the general concensus is for less moderation rather than more I could be wrong I often am

-- hide signature --

John aka bosjohn21

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
mehdrtr
New MemberPosts: 14
Like?
Re: On Excitement
In reply to bosjohn21, Jun 29, 2013

bosjohn21 wrote:

Kendall Helmstetter Gelner wrote:

bosjohn21 wrote:

more rules and stricter enforcment make for a peacful but unexciting experience

Watching buildings be demolished is very exciting.

But you can only do that so often before you have no city.

At some point you have to allow time for buildings, cities, and communities to be built.

Even if it's not exciting, more comes from it in the long run.

I dont understand the buildings being demolished reference. I am not advocating anarchy only pointing out how moderation can effect our experience. I prefer a more livly forum because I have developed a thinkish skin over the years others will feel more comfortable with strict rules and dicipline. but I what I think I am hearing is the general concensus is for less moderation rather than more I could be wrong I often am

-- hide signature --

John aka bosjohn21

I don't know what you're talking about. It's not like these forums could exist without moderation. I don't think that they were ever unmoderated and if they were surely nothing good came out of it.

As for liveliness, I don't see how they could be more lively than now. I think what we all want is a place that can be enjoyed in a friendly and adult way. This can only happen when everybody mostly agrees on everything and that's what moderators are for.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
mehdrtr
New MemberPosts: 14
Like?
Re: Moderator Note : For the record
In reply to bobn2, Jun 29, 2013

Bobn2 wrote:

sjgcit wrote:

I didn't put any spin on the actions for the simple reason I didn't detail them.

I would respectfully suggest that your post did 'put a spin' on the actions. You said:

Posts in this thread have also been deleted because a very small number of members seem unable to accept that there are rules and they are not immune. Bans are an inevitable consequence for the more obstinate ones who ignore warnings.

So you are telling us that the cause of the deletions is people who seem unable to accept that there are rules and they are not immune.

I would hazard a guess that the people that you are talking about, whoever they are, may see the matter very differently from you. It is quite possible that they do not believe that they have violated any rule, and that the moderation that they have been subjected to is heavy handed and unreasonable.

I can see why you're confused. You seem like a good person, if with issues with authority, so I'll offer you a new angle that may help you  understand.

How would you know right from wrong were not for the preachers vested with special powers?

However, we shall never know, because they cannot put their side of the story the way things work here. that is what I meant by 'one sided'.

My post was simply to correct a false impression that no actions took place at all. They do.

For that action you should be commended, because it would be impossible for a mere member to make that point, because it is likely that their posts would be removed for violating the 'no talking about moderation rule'. In fact it is possible that this might actually have happened.

As for what "some people" think, I frankly don't care unless they're "some people" who write the rules. Moderators don't write the rules. Neither do you. And it's not a democracy either. The people who pay for the forum's running costs get to make the rules. Talk to them.

I would suggest, again respectfully, that any system where it is only the opinion of the rule makers that matters, and not those of the people subject to the rules, has gone deeply astray.

-- hide signature --

Bob

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
bosjohn21
Senior MemberPosts: 4,493
Like?
Re: On Excitement
In reply to mehdrtr, Jun 29, 2013

mehdrtr wrote:

bosjohn21 wrote:

Kendall Helmstetter Gelner wrote:

bosjohn21 wrote:

more rules and stricter enforcment make for a peacful but unexciting experience

Watching buildings be demolished is very exciting.

But you can only do that so often before you have no city.

At some point you have to allow time for buildings, cities, and communities to be built.

Even if it's not exciting, more comes from it in the long run.

I dont understand the buildings being demolished reference. I am not advocating anarchy only pointing out how moderation can effect our experience. I prefer a more livly forum because I have developed a thinkish skin over the years others will feel more comfortable with strict rules and dicipline. but I what I think I am hearing is the general concensus is for less moderation rather than more I could be wrong I often am

-- hide signature --

John aka bosjohn21

I don't know what you're talking about. It's not like these forums could exist without moderation. I don't think that they were ever unmoderated and if they were surely nothing good came out of it.

As for liveliness, I don't see how they could be more lively than now. I think what we all want is a place that can be enjoyed in a friendly and adult way. This can only happen when everybody mostly agrees on everything and that's what moderators are for.

did you read the post he was replying too? I have followed this and many threads here about moderation the feeling I get from them is that folks want a bit less. Of course there must be moderation all we are discussiing is how much is a good balance. I think I made that clear

-- hide signature --

John aka bosjohn21

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
AllMankind
Contributing MemberPosts: 564
Like?
Re: I think that is a bad idea
In reply to SigmaChrome, Jun 29, 2013

SigmaChrome wrote:

It's not just the level of moderation, Kendall, it's quality of it too.

If moderation becomes over-zealous, lively discussion is suppressed. People need to feel that they can express themselves without their personality being policed -- censored. All this does, IMO, is to drive people away. Don't get me wrong; I'm not suggesting that aggressive personal attacks should be tolerated, but I do think a moderator should suggest that a poster should use a more civil tone -- before they get too abusive. Simply censoring a comment is not necessarily moderating -- sometimes it is just 'butting in'. I really think a moderator's job is analogous to that of a chairperson, not a policeman.

Well said.  One of the big problems with the moderation on DPR is that it is over zealous and often heavy handed.  Combine that with snide remarks from some mods and you end up with a hostile atmosphere that will drive people away just as surely as troll and fanboy attacks.

Change is needed DPR.  Anyone listening?

-- hide signature --

Oppose Tyranny in all its forms.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
AllMankind
Contributing MemberPosts: 564
Like?
Re: About moderation - Feedback
In reply to Ed B, Jun 29, 2013

Ed B wrote:

Biggs23 wrote:

Removing spam but allowing rampant trolling, is that what you'd like to see?

-- hide signature --

Any opinions I express are my own and do not represent DPReview. Have a good one and God bless!

Don't get me wrong because I'm not trying to be a jerk but allowing some trolling is a good idea because that adds a certain amount of interest to the forums. Keeps them from becoming boring.

Exactly.  In fact, dealing with the trolls can be entertaining.  As long as the troll (or anyone else) doesn't go off the tracks and starts being abusive, then what is the harm?

A troll who becomes "obnoxious" can easily be controlled through the complaint system.

A mod should not get involved unless there are complaints.

And even then the mod needs to look closely at the thread to see if it has in fact become derailed, rather than someone just complaining for the sake of complaining.

Some of the moderation has hurt DPR and these forums are quickly becoming less and less interesting.

Considerably less.

Spam should always be removed, posts with bad language removed, some posts need to be moved to other forums, but a moderator shouldn't get involved with a thread unless there are complaints.

Just an opinion.

And this is pretty much what real moderation is about.

Mods should not be trolling the forums looking for people to chastise, or posts/threads to delete.

The mods should be waiting for the users to complain, and then looking to see if the complaint is valid, taking action only when necessary.

The preemptive strike strategy does not work.  It alienates your friends and allies, in this case, DPR users.

-- hide signature --

Oppose Tyranny in all its forms.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Detail Man
Forum ProPosts: 14,971
Like?
Re: Kendall's declared "even more reasonable questions"
In reply to Kendall Helmstetter Gelner, Jun 29, 2013

Kendall Helmstetter Gelner wrote:

Detail Man wrote:

<...>What is actually motivating these people to allegedly "work for free" ?

What is motivating any user to post helpful advice in a forum anywhere? They too are working for free. How is that any different?

The internet is chock full of people helping other people for free. If I go to http://www.khanacademy.org, I can watch 3000+ videos providing education on a wide variety of topics, all for free.

Indeed looking across the internet, free is the norm and paid is the exception. If you go to just about any site for help you expect it to be free. If you send a message on twitter looking for help from followers you do not deposit $1 to tweet.

People love helping other people, a fact which the internet has channeled to grand effect. It's simply human nature to help others for no personal gain.

I find your enthusiatic visions of pure an unadulterated altruism abounding everywhere on the interent charming - but it seems to me to reflect a willingness to generalize regarding myriads of different people doing myriads of differing things that neither you or I could possibly hope to comprehensively assess in more that what might well strike many readers as little more than sweepingly general and Pollyannistic terms. Nor is it clear that you stated your own motivations.

As opposed to responding to my question with questions, I would be more interested in knowing how you see yourself (which is in fact the only person that you can reliably speak for) in your intended role, and how you envision specific ways in which your organizational position as an unpaid volunteer representing DPReview may, or may not, in actual practice facilitate that personal vision.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
AllMankind
Contributing MemberPosts: 564
Like?
Re: About moderation - Feedback
In reply to Kendall Helmstetter Gelner, Jun 29, 2013

Kendall Helmstetter Gelner wrote:

AllMankind wrote:

DonA2 wrote:

A bit of respect is small payment.

Respect needs to be EARNED.

Moderators are inherently going to not be respected by those they moderate, because the interpretation of rules differs.

It is impossible to both moderate and "earn the respect" of those you are moderating.

Actually, I would disagree with you here.  If a moderator is not over zealous or heavy handed, but fair and even handed, then I would say that mod would earn the respect of at least some members, especially members that frequent the forums.

Just like the bad cop gives all police a bad reputation, a bad mod gives all the mods a bad reputation.

Perhaps DPR needs a training course for mods.  Simply tossing them into the deep end of the pool doesn't seem to be working.

-- hide signature --

Oppose Tyranny in all its forms.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
bobn2
Forum ProPosts: 28,375
Like?
Re: Think of all possible forum readers, and efficiency
In reply to Kendall Helmstetter Gelner, Jun 29, 2013

Kendall Helmstetter Gelner wrote:

lenshoarder wrote:

More importantly, most forums allow users to ignore other users. So if someone "trolls", simply ignore them and they can't troll you since you don't even see their posts. Some prefer to censor what others write. I think it's better that we simply censor what we choose to read.

That helps you, but ignores a huge number of people that read DPReview without ever creating an account. They don't know who is a troll. If they decide someone is a troll they cannot block them from future reading (because they have no account).

Would it not be up for an individual to decide who they consider to be a 'troll', and they can avoid reading their posts simply by not reading them? So far as I know, DPReview does not have a Clockwork Orange inspired user interface, where eyelids are held open while hapless victims are forced to read content that they don't want to. Everyone here has the choice to select what they want to read and ignore what they don't.

The argument that you put forward is the argument that censors put forward everywhere - that censorship is necessary to protect the great unwashed from being exposed to content they might find objectionable. I think in most liberal societies that attitude didn't last it through the 1960's, and the onus on censors has been to demonstrate harm in order to justify censorship. Of course in societies where the role of censorship is to protect the powers that be form seditious conversation censorship has a different purpose, but look at those societies and you will find that the censors maintain that they perform their role for the common good.

-- hide signature --

Bob

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
merops
Contributing MemberPosts: 929
Like?
Re: About moderation - Feedback
In reply to AllMankind, Jun 29, 2013

AllMankind wrote:

The preemptive strike strategy does not work. It alienates your friends and allies, in this case, DPR users.

You can only speak for yourself. Speaking for myself, preemptive strikes do sometimes work, and in general have my approval rather than alienating me.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
bobn2
Forum ProPosts: 28,375
Like?
Re: Moderator Note : For the record
In reply to mehdrtr, Jun 29, 2013

mehdrtr wrote:

Bobn2 wrote:

sjgcit wrote:

I didn't put any spin on the actions for the simple reason I didn't detail them.

I would respectfully suggest that your post did 'put a spin' on the actions. You said:

Posts in this thread have also been deleted because a very small number of members seem unable to accept that there are rules and they are not immune. Bans are an inevitable consequence for the more obstinate ones who ignore warnings.

So you are telling us that the cause of the deletions is people who seem unable to accept that there are rules and they are not immune.

I would hazard a guess that the people that you are talking about, whoever they are, may see the matter very differently from you. It is quite possible that they do not believe that they have violated any rule, and that the moderation that they have been subjected to is heavy handed and unreasonable.

I can see why you're confused. You seem like a good person, if with issues with authority, so I'll offer you a new angle that may help you understand.

How would you know right from wrong were not for the preachers vested with special powers?

I do not believe personally that concepts of 'right' and 'wrong' come from preachers. Nor do I believe that preachers are vested with 'special powers'. My own morality comes from a sense of empathy - if it isn't something I'd like to happen to me I won't visit it on someone else. When I get involved in fights here, it is generally only after I have determined that the other side actually wishes to engage in a fight - people who are passive or simply politely discursive won't get a fight, even if we disagree - as the saying goes, it takes two to Tango. Empathy is a simple consequence of evolutionary behaviour - empathic behaviour increases the chances of social species (which we are) passing on their genes.

As for preachers, which ones should I choose to take 'right and wrong' from? The Jihadist who tells me to kill the infidel? The white supremicist who tells me that I am one of 'God's' chosen? The one who tells me that I should deny children medical care? The one who tells me that my gay friends will burn in hell for eternity? For my part, it would be the one who tells me to do what I already know is right, and then that preacher is redundant is he (usually a 'he') not?

-- hide signature --

Bob

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
bobn2
Forum ProPosts: 28,375
Like?
Re: About moderation - Feedback
In reply to AllMankind, Jun 29, 2013

AllMankind wrote:

Kendall Helmstetter Gelner wrote:

AllMankind wrote:

DonA2 wrote:

A bit of respect is small payment.

Respect needs to be EARNED.

Moderators are inherently going to not be respected by those they moderate, because the interpretation of rules differs.

It is impossible to both moderate and "earn the respect" of those you are moderating.

Actually, I would disagree with you here. If a moderator is not over zealous or heavy handed, but fair and even handed, then I would say that mod would earn the respect of at least some members, especially members that frequent the forums.

I would agree. There are several moderators on these forums (and of course I can't name names) whose activities are a model of responsible and constructive moderation, and who have earned respect for the way that they go about the tasks.

I think that it is possible to see the difference in attitude from the various mods who have contributed to these forums. While some seem to understand that their role is necessary to prevent undeniable excesses (for instance, actual defamation, 'hate' posts, etc) others see their role as shaping the discussion into a form more personally acceptable to them individually, and adjudicating on which opinions are acceptable and not acceptable (of course again a personal view). All of these moderators enforce the same set of rules, and all of them will claim that is all that they are doing, but interpretation of the rules (which are by and large sensible, apart from the infamous rule 3) varies greatly according to the sense of personal mission by the moderator.

-- hide signature --

Bob

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Keyboard shortcuts:
FForum MMy threads