X-M1

Started Jun 21, 2013 | Discussions
snack
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Re: Does Size Matter?
In reply to Al Valentino, Jun 21, 2013

This could make a great compliment body to the x100s....especially for travel.  Using the x100s for most shots and the XM as a handy body to use a telephoto or a wide...interesting.

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nixda
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Re: Does Size Matter?
In reply to Al Valentino, Jun 21, 2013

Al Valentino wrote:

Does size matter? Especially if you have big hands?

Below are the relative sizes of the bodies. Would have been nice if the same case fit both bodies but you decide for yourself

To me the XE1 was a smaller, less expensive alternative to the XPro1. They took out the Optical viewfinder and made the body smaller. Now they remove the viewfinder altogether. Personally, if I want to take a picture without a viewfinder and hold the camera out, I pull out my iPhone.

I think that's a bit too harsh. There is room for cameras that only have an LCD screen but are otherwise still very capable devices. I am sure Fuji did the market research to drive their decision-making process.

After all, the viewfinder primarily serves for composing a shot, not much more. Many people are happy without a view finder. They still deserve good cameras.

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nixda
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Re: No aperture ring on the pancake and the new zoom
In reply to TexasBuyer, Jun 21, 2013

TexasBuyer wrote:

dengx wrote:

bentheoandrews wrote:

I've never used anything to alter the aperture on my XE1 other than the aperture ring. If a lens didn't have one, how would I alter it in "A" mode?

My guess is that like in the most cameras today - via dial.

Regards

Yes, based on the photos of the rear of the X-M1, there appears to be a dial above the Play and Video Record buttons. It's strange because that dial budges out like it was some dial that was grafted into the body.

It looks like a thumbrest with built-in dial. I think that's a great solution, but will need to try in person.

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Al Valentino
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Re: Does Size Matter?
In reply to nixda, Jun 21, 2013

nixda wrote:

Al Valentino wrote:

Does size matter? Especially if you have big hands?

Below are the relative sizes of the bodies. Would have been nice if the same case fit both bodies but you decide for yourself

To me the XE1 was a smaller, less expensive alternative to the XPro1. They took out the Optical viewfinder and made the body smaller. Now they remove the viewfinder altogether. Personally, if I want to take a picture without a viewfinder and hold the camera out, I pull out my iPhone.

I think that's a bit too harsh.

Perhaps we could do without my iPhone crack

After all, the viewfinder primarily serves for composing a shot, not much more.

I disagree.

Bracing the camera against your head allows another contact point for stability for low shutter speeds. I have pulled off some incredible shots by using proper technique (Not referring just to fuji) by pressing against eye/head, holding elbows in and against my body, and rolling finger over the shutter between breaths. The longer lenght and shorter the shutter speed, the more important technique it. Hold a pencil against your chest pointing away. Now just watch it move up and down as you take normal breaths - body motion from breathing can be a factor.

Also, if their is a bright light behind you then the LCD can have plenty of glare making it hard to see. Not so when looking through a viewfinder.

So a viewfinder, although not necessary, can be very useful 

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Aethon
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Re: X-M1
In reply to Al Valentino, Jun 21, 2013

Al Valentino wrote:

Not for me. Personally, i think this cheapens the brand a little. I saw fuji as a cousin to Leica interchangeable lens bodies with quality lenses and no consumer gimmicks.

I don't think this cheapens the Fuji brand.

If you really want to see what cheapening the brand looks like check out Hasselblad's latest:

http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-57514888-1/hasselblad-aims-for-luxury-camera-market-not-just-pros/

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viking79
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Re: Does Size Matter?
In reply to Al Valentino, Jun 21, 2013

Al Valentino wrote:

nixda wrote:

Al Valentino wrote:

Does size matter? Especially if you have big hands?

Below are the relative sizes of the bodies. Would have been nice if the same case fit both bodies but you decide for yourself

To me the XE1 was a smaller, less expensive alternative to the XPro1. They took out the Optical viewfinder and made the body smaller. Now they remove the viewfinder altogether. Personally, if I want to take a picture without a viewfinder and hold the camera out, I pull out my iPhone.

I think that's a bit too harsh.

Perhaps we could do without my iPhone crack

After all, the viewfinder primarily serves for composing a shot, not much more.

I disagree.

Bracing the camera against your head allows another contact point for stability for low shutter speeds. I have pulled off some incredible shots by using proper technique (Not referring just to fuji) by pressing against eye/head, holding elbows in and against my body, and rolling finger over the shutter between breaths.

See, I wear glasses and can't do this.  Plus I don't like jamming the camera into my face if I don't have to

You can brace using the rear monitor very well too, flip screen up, hold camera body against chest and tuck elbows into your sides.  This uses your chest as the 3rd contact point and is as stable as you can stand (same as eye level).

Even on my XP1 I composed with the rear LCD most of the time, EVF the rest of the time, rarely used OVF.  Again, that was just my style.

Also, if their is a bright light behind you then the LCD can have plenty of glare making it hard to see. Not so when looking through a viewfinder.

So a viewfinder, although not necessary, can be very useful

Sure it can, no substitute for viewfinder in some situations.  I do like having one, I only use it about 20% of the time so I can make do without.  I am sure bird and sports shooters use it closer to 100% of the time

I like having option of using either viewfinder or live view display, if live view only it really needs to be articulated as this X-M1.  I really like the look of that camera.

Eric

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viking79
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Re: X-M1
In reply to kcamacho11, Jun 21, 2013

kcamacho11 wrote:

I believe it is the answer to the NEX-3-5's, not the NEX-6. The NEX-6 is the direct competion to the X-E1 because both have EVF's and are more pro build with dials.

I agree, Sony NEX 5R, Samsung NX300, and Fuji XM1 seem fairly similar.

I think this is a very good move by Fuji. They are trying to attract amateurs with this new camera system, making it more user friendly while still delivering spectacular image quality.

I think so too, looks very nice.  I sort of hope it uses the non XTrans sensor too, but that seems to be the Fuji trade mark now, probably make more sense to make them all the same.

Eric

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supercalifragilisticexpialidocious
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Re: X-M1
In reply to OdzBodkinz, Jun 21, 2013

OdzBodkinz wrote:

How would somebody operate the aperture on the 27mm if its mounted to an XP1 or XE1?

Hence the firmware update?

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lnbolch
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Re: X-M1
In reply to supercalifragilisticexpialidocious, Jun 21, 2013

Slows down delivery of new lenses:

Camera body manufacture and lens manufacture are certainly two different divisions within Fuji. The lens people do not stop their work and start making cameras.

Cheapens the line:

Both Canon and Nikon make industry-leading cameras for substantial prices, consumer-level and entry-level cameras that use the same lenses. A full-service camera company will provide a reasonably priced entry point. Leica is a boutique brand, charging enormous prices to compensate for minimal sales and so are not in competition with anyone.

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Felts
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Re: X-M1
In reply to lnbolch, Jun 21, 2013

To the naysayers, Fuji is a business with an aim to make profit, not a boutique camera manufacturer doing it for the love of the game. The more popular the X-series, the greater money the company has to invest into lenses, R&D etc for all levels of consumer. In turn this should lead to better AF, user interface etc so all those little niggles will be ironed out. Maybe... Hopefully...

But all positive IMHO 

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Olly Wright
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Re: X-M1
In reply to Al Valentino, Jun 21, 2013

Al Valentino wrote:

1. Not for me. Personally, i think this cheapens the brand a little. .

2. I also think their time would have been better spent getting those remaining lenses out to help sell more cameras, with viewfinders, and build their rep are a great camera with the best lens options.

On 1. Does the fact that Nikon and Canon produce consumer-grade entry-level DSLRs cheapen their DSLR brand? If so, I don't see evidence for it.

On 2. I agree completely. The biggest weakness right now for X-system is the lack of lens options. Compare to Sony and Olympus its bad, and compared to the semi-pro DSLRs they're trying to steal customers away from it's dire.

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zapatista
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Re: X-M1
In reply to Al Valentino, Jun 21, 2013

Al Valentino wrote:

Not for me. Personally, i think this cheapens the brand a little. I saw fuji as a cousin to Leica interchangeable lens bodies with quality lenses and no consumer gimmicks. Now with a slow lens, which will likely have focus problems, and consumer gimmicks like wifi, tilt screens, and NO Viewfinder, it is a toy camera. Fuji was building a solid reputation as a photographers cameras now it is something you hold away from you to see the glarring LCD as you try to get the slow lens to focus. A viewfinder no only help see without glare issues, it also acts as a point of stabilization against your head letting you take sharp pictures in low shutter speeds. I guess in the end all companies seems to cater to consumers not just serious enthusiasts or pros.

I also think their time would have been better spent getting those remaining lenses out to help sell more cameras, with viewfinders, and build their rep are a great camera with the best lens options.

Leica with no gimmicks?!? How about re-branded Panasonic compacts cameras and lenses. There isn't one brand that doesn't lend it's name for $$.

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Canadianguy
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Re: X-M1 - X20 killer
In reply to DDWD10, Jun 21, 2013

I think they just killed the X20 market - $600-$650 market too close to the 550-599 X20.

Guess the sales of the X20 were not doing so well.

DDWD10 wrote:

I like it - in size it looks roughly similar to the X20. Hopefully that LCD finally abandons the old 460k resolution for something more modern (921k+). With twin control dials I don't think it will be as compromised as some think. I had no trouble controlling my X10 with a similar setup.

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Matz03
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Re: X-M1
In reply to bentheoandrews, Jun 21, 2013

I like it!  Put me down for a black one.  I've been waiting for something like this as a companion to my X-E1 when hiking or biking, or when minimal size is needed, I sold off my trusty LX3 along with my m43 kit.  I hope the X-M1 + 27mm is reasonably priced though, it seems similar to the sony nex 3n which is a steal $449 with kit zoom.  Only reason I didn't go with the baby NEX is to stay with a single lens system.  Lets see the price and the features list next!

Regarding the 27mm and no aperture ring, hopefully the rear-dial becomes the aperture control on the X-E1 and I'd be fine with that, but it's a little disappointing too see the change.

I've been holding off on an X20 because I really want an aps-c in my cameras.

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Beat Traveller
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Re: X-M1
In reply to bentheoandrews, Jun 21, 2013

I'm curious as to where the rising interest for this particular style of camera is coming from. So many companies now are putting out relatively cheap interchangeable lens mirrorless cameras with no viewfinders but wifi, tilt screens and mode dials. Who's in the target market? Almost everyone I see walking around with a camera has either got a DSLR or a compact, and on the rare occasion that I see someone with a mirrorless, it's usually one of the high-end models like the OM-D.

But hey, if they're making them, someone must be buying them.

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eadrian75
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Re: No aperture ring on the pancake and the new zoom
In reply to baobob, Jun 21, 2013

This would be so disappointing. The beauty of the xe1 is the ability to quickly view and adjust your settings even before turning it on or waking it from sleep. While setting aperture via dial is easy, it still requires a peek at the screen. It would completely ruin the experience and charm of the system. If this is the future direction of x lenses then I'm seriously going to consider jumping ship - unless Fuji improves focus speed ten fold.

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Matz03
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Re: X-M1
In reply to Beat Traveller, Jun 21, 2013

Beat Traveller wrote:

But hey, if they're making them, someone must be buying them.

I'm curious too, with so many options in the $400-$600 range like the nex 3n, ep5, epl5, gf camera yet I rarely see anyone with one.  The pens are somewhat popular but I can't imagine the others sell that well.  I think this is kind of a new market with phones replacing compact cams and these becoming the new breed of point and shoot/compact cams.

I want a high quality compact cam and this fits the bill for me, having xf lens compatibility is such a bonus.  Same high quality x-trans files, proper depth of field control, high iso performance, all in a body that doesn't require it's own camera bag.

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Daniel from Bavaria
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Re: X-M1 - X20 killer
In reply to Canadianguy, Jun 22, 2013

Canadianguy wrote:

I think they just killed the X20 market - $600-$650 market too close to the 550-599 X20

So what? If Fuji does not canibalize their products, others will do it. It's just that simple.

Regards,

Daniel

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lnbolch
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Re: X-M1 - X20 killer
In reply to Canadianguy, Jun 22, 2013

Canadianguy wrote:

I think they just killed the X20 market - $600-$650 market too close to the 550-599 X20.

Add in a lens so you can actually make photographs, and you are up to $1200—1400 or more. If it has an impact, it will be on the $800 X-E1. However, the X-E1 is aimed at experienced shooters while the X-M1 is aimed at being an entry-level to the X-cameras.

Guess the sales of the X20 were not doing so well.

The X20 is a quite different camera, built-in zoom lens, 2/3" sensor, half the price. I expect that one has little impact upon the other.

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Daniel from Bavaria
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Re: No aperture ring on the pancake and the new zoom
In reply to eadrian75, Jun 22, 2013

eadrian75 wrote:

This would be so disappointing. The beauty of the xe1 is the ability to quickly view and adjust your settings even before turning it on or waking it from sleep. While setting aperture via dial is easy, it still requires a peek at the screen. It would completely ruin the experience and charm of the system. If this is the future direction of x lenses then I'm seriously going to consider jumping ship - unless Fuji improves focus speed ten fold.

It's always funny here. I am sure their is no reason to be freightend. This camera targets a total different market than the Xp1 or XE1.

When I just look at my colleques and most of my friends or my wife, they are all not able to work with shutterspeeds, aperture control or EV-adjustments. Theirfore these dials are useless for them - a mode dial with nice pictogramms for Full-Auto, Candle-light, landscape, and these ominous P, A and S stuff is usefull for them or at least they can somehow interpret and us it.

And the XM-1 is made for these people. So control wise they did everything right here - from my point of view. That the pancake does not have an aperture ring is a bit of a pitty, but maybe it is just to small to do so.

I also agree that a bit more focus speed would be nice, but for me it is more essential to finally get that blo.dy auto-iso stuff right - as it is in the X100(s).

As I said, I am absolutely sure that Fuji will stay with the controll layout of the XP1 and XE1, everything else would be stupid.

Regards,

Daniel

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