Samsung gets it right - look here, Oly!

Started Jun 18, 2013 | Discussions
NZ Scott
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Re: Samsung gets it right - look here, Oly!
In reply to PAUL TILL, Jun 18, 2013

PAUL TILL wrote:

LMNCT wrote:

You may not like the way the G GH Panasonics "look" but the ergonomics and menu systems are excellent...as are the lenses. Pretty is as pretty does !

They should just change the mount on the GH series to 4/3rds, after all the idea behind Micro 4/3rds was to reduce the size. We have some nice compact lenses, why on earth would you want to mount them on a body bigger than the average APS-C camera?

First of all, the GH cameras are not bigger than the average APS-C camera. They are, on average, smaller.

Secondly, if you change the mount from m43 to 43 then you increase the flange distance and this tends to result in bigger and heavier lenses.

Your argument can be turned on its head: why change the GH's mount to 43 when you can keep it at m43 and allow the use of smaller and lighter lenses?

S

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Jorginho
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In reply to NZ Scott, Jun 18, 2013

If you are surprised by this I think the main cause is that you personally do not value it. Look around in the world. Camera's, watches, cars etc....looks matter a whole lot. Oly reailsied it. So did Fuji. for some it is the combination, others could not care less. Etc.

Why do you think people by DSLRs when they start shooting pics a bit more seriously? Because a DSLR LOOKS serious, not because they need it at all.

But someone who is surprised by this may be should take a good look at all sorts of brands and marketing and know looks ARe very important to many people. Hence Oly's choice. And it is good one. OMD has been very popular and the looks I think play a major role.

Oly's EM5 would have not been so popular at all would it have the look of this Samsung, I am very sure about that.

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PAUL TILL
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Re: Samsung gets it right - look here, Oly!
In reply to NZ Scott, Jun 18, 2013

NZ Scott wrote:

PAUL TILL wrote:

LMNCT wrote:

You may not like the way the G GH Panasonics "look" but the ergonomics and menu systems are excellent...as are the lenses. Pretty is as pretty does !

They should just change the mount on the GH series to 4/3rds, after all the idea behind Micro 4/3rds was to reduce the size. We have some nice compact lenses, why on earth would you want to mount them on a body bigger than the average APS-C camera?

First of all, the GH cameras are not bigger than the average APS-C camera. They are, on average, smaller.

If you say so.

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NZ Scott
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Re: Samsung gets it right - look here, Oly!
In reply to PAUL TILL, Jun 18, 2013

You are being overly selective with your examples.

You chose the GH3 for one thing. The other GH cameras are much smaller.

Also, you deleted my second point, which was this:

"Secondly, if you change the mount from m43 to 43 then you increase the flange distance and this tends to result in bigger and heavier lenses."

"Your argument can be turned on its head: why change the GH's mount to 43 when you can keep it at m43 and allow the use of smaller and lighter lenses?"

S

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PAUL TILL
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Re: Samsung gets it right - look here, Oly!
In reply to NZ Scott, Jun 18, 2013

NZ Scott wrote:

You are being overly selective with your examples.

You chose the GH3 for one thing. The other GH cameras are much smaller.

Also, you deleted my second point, which was this:

"Secondly, if you change the mount from m43 to 43 then you increase the flange distance and this tends to result in bigger and heavier lenses."

"Your argument can be turned on its head: why change the GH's mount to 43 when you can keep it at m43 and allow the use of smaller and lighter lenses?"

S

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Well this is not a history forum so I left the GH1/2 out of it.

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MichaelKJ
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Re: Why Samsung? Panny showed it already.
In reply to Winston Loo, Jun 18, 2013

Winston Loo wrote:

NZ Scott wrote:

Jorginho wrote:

I found this Samsung rather ugly btw. Olyw as very right in carving out a niche with their retro style. Add a grip and you're oke.

Add a grip and you're $300 poorer.

Who cares if the Samsung is ugly?

It's surprising how many people in this thread value form over function.

S

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Gee. millions in the world flock to i devices by apple because of FORM and FUNCTION. The E-M5 has both. The Samsung is terribly ugly and so what if it has a gorgeous 4" screen. No buttons for fast navigation. imagine the tons of fingerprints that will attract etc. Sorry.. i vote form over function any day.

I assume you aren't serious. Would you, for example, prefer a 2MP camera that you thought had better "form" than the E-M5?

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NZ Scott
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Re: Samsung gets it right - look here, Oly!
In reply to PAUL TILL, Jun 18, 2013

PAUL TILL wrote:

NZ Scott wrote:

You are being overly selective with your examples.

You chose the GH3 for one thing. The other GH cameras are much smaller.

Also, you deleted my second point, which was this:

"Secondly, if you change the mount from m43 to 43 then you increase the flange distance and this tends to result in bigger and heavier lenses."

"Your argument can be turned on its head: why change the GH's mount to 43 when you can keep it at m43 and allow the use of smaller and lighter lenses?"

S

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Well this is not a history forum so I left the GH1/2 out of it.

Actually you didn't. I was replying to your comment about "GH" cameras.

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NZ Scott
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Re: If you think that you lost contact with reality.
In reply to Jorginho, Jun 18, 2013

Jorginho wrote:

If you are surprised by this I think the main cause is that you personally do not value it. Look around in the world. Camera's, watches, cars etc....looks matter a whole lot. Oly reailsied it. So did Fuji. for some it is the combination, others could not care less. Etc.

Why do you think people by DSLRs when they start shooting pics a bit more seriously? Because a DSLR LOOKS serious, not because they need it at all.

But someone who is surprised by this may be should take a good look at all sorts of brands and marketing and know looks ARe very important to many people. Hence Oly's choice. And it is good one. OMD has been very popular and the looks I think play a major role.

Oly's EM5 would have not been so popular at all would it have the look of this Samsung, I am very sure about that.

Good on ya, Jorgi.

I suggest that you frame an EM5 and hang it on your wall.

That should save you from having to take any photographs!

S

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PAUL TILL
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Re: Why Samsung? Panny showed it already.
In reply to MichaelKJ, Jun 18, 2013

MichaelKJ wrote:

Winston Loo wrote:

NZ Scott wrote:

Jorginho wrote:

I found this Samsung rather ugly btw. Olyw as very right in carving out a niche with their retro style. Add a grip and you're oke.

Add a grip and you're $300 poorer.

Who cares if the Samsung is ugly?

It's surprising how many people in this thread value form over function.

S

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Gee. millions in the world flock to i devices by apple because of FORM and FUNCTION. The E-M5 has both. The Samsung is terribly ugly and so what if it has a gorgeous 4" screen. No buttons for fast navigation. imagine the tons of fingerprints that will attract etc. Sorry.. i vote form over function any day.

I assume you aren't serious. Would you, for example, prefer a 2MP camera that you thought had better "form" than the E-M5?

You're taking it to an extreme, with the same sensor what would you prefer? EXACTLY.

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PAUL TILL
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Re: Samsung gets it right - look here, Oly!
In reply to NZ Scott, Jun 18, 2013

NZ Scott wrote:

Actually you didn't. I was replying to your comment about "GH" cameras.

I've already forgotten about the GH-1/2, there is only one now the GH-3. You'll be bringing film cameras into the conversation next.

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markymark101
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In reply to NZ Scott, Jun 18, 2013

Ughh that looks like a Pany camera, not an Oly.

If I wanted a big camera I would have bought a DSLR.  I gave up the DSLR for the EM-5 to get a small camera with DSLR functionality.  I wear extra large gloves and have little problem with the EM-5.  I would hate to see OLY make it any larger or heavier.   I would have to reconsider my investment in M43 if that happened.

I don't need an onboard flash - they all pretty much suck anyway.  I wouldn't mind if they added one, but only if it did not make the camera larger or heavier.   Again, might as well just buy a DSLR.

A little more grip might be nice, but I don't find I miss it all that much.  If I shot one handed, maybe, but I always use two hands when shoothing, and I use an excellent Optech shoulder strap, too.

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tjuster1
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Re: Samsung gets it right - look here, Oly!
In reply to NZ Scott, Jun 18, 2013

Just like many others who have responded, I disagree. But that's the beauty of having lots of choices, huh? If you like the Samsung system so much you should buy one.

Personally, I hope Olympus doesn't try to imitate Samsung.

I don't really miss a built-in flash.

The EVF is just fine for me.

I think the ergonomics are fine, once you've sorted out how you want the camera configured.

I don't want more controls, certainly not at the expense of size.

We already have the GH3, which seems to tick off many of your boxes (minus IBIS). Couple it with native OIS lenses and don't you get the camera you're wishing for?

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DLBlack
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Re: Samsung gets it right - look here, Oly!
In reply to PAUL TILL, Jun 18, 2013

The GH-3 is more comparible to the pro-level cropped cameras like the 7D or the D300 and not to the cameras you selected for your comparison.

Anyhow, it is nice to see a camers the size of te GH3 with the features and specs it has in the MFT line of cameras.

Dave

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PAUL TILL
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Re: Samsung gets it right - look here, Oly!
In reply to DLBlack, Jun 18, 2013

DLBlack wrote:

The GH-3 is more comparible to the pro-level cropped cameras like the 7D or the D300 and not to the cameras you selected for your comparison.

Pro level, LOL. Why is that then? It doesn't do focus tracking as well as either of those so what's your reasoning or is it because you own one?

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tgutgu
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Re: Samsung gets it right - look here, Oly!
In reply to NZ Scott, Jun 18, 2013

It is funny that you use THIS camera to prove how bad Olympus' camera ergonomics are. Besides the fact that the E-M5's ergonomics aren't that bad, I have no clue how you can quote the camera with probably the worst ergonomics as a good example. This Samsung is almost completely screen driven, which to me is a deal breaker with respect to handling. There will be light situations, where the camera will be not usable, because you can't read the screen.

To equip a camera with a full fledged smartphone OS and apps is total bloat for a camera. Also it introduces insecurity into a camera, that I don't want to have.

To me, the E-M5 and its system is vastly superior in all respects.

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Thomas

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Olymore
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Re: Samsung gets it right - look here, Oly!
In reply to NZ Scott, Jun 18, 2013

If you're Mr or Mrs average consumer and you walk into a camera shop would you buy this over an Olympus ?
It's not about ergonomics or features it's about desireability. Do you really want a piece of moulded plastic over the nicely crafted EP-5 with it's milled dials .

I know that we care about these things but for the 'average consumer' a camera is a luxury purchase and if you can make a camera feel/look special they will want to buy it.

The  car industry has been doing this for years as has much of the Hi Fi industry  (Volkswagen/Audi and Bang & Olufson for example) and the Swiss watch industry is built on it

An automatic Omega watch is less reliable than a cheap casio digital and will have less features (alarms, stopwatches, countdown timers etc) but which is the more desirable object ?

I know in reality there's not an 'average consumer' and we all have different wants, needs and budgets but I think Oly is trying to develop a range of cameras that are good but also have that X factor. Whether that 'X' factor appeals to you...

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DLBlack
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Re: Samsung gets it right - look here, Oly!
In reply to PAUL TILL, Jun 18, 2013

PAUL TILL wrote:

DLBlack wrote:

The GH-3 is more comparible to the pro-level cropped cameras like the 7D or the D300 and not to the cameras you selected for your comparison.

Pro level, LOL. Why is that then? It doesn't do focus tracking as well as either of those so what's your reasoning or is it because you own one?

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Yes, it is consider "pro-level" because of all the direct control buttons and dials.  For better ergonomics  these buttons and dials require a larger body.  The larger body also makes handling larger lenses like the 12-35 f2.8 and 35-100 f2.8 easier when you hare user the camera for a whole day.  The battery is larger so you can get more shots without changing batteries.  All nice things for a pro using a camera for a whole day of shoting.  The swivel screen instead of a tilt screen also requires a bigger body.  Weather-selaling is a plus.  Yes, as you pointed out at this time C-AFand tracking  on any MFT camera is not up to the standards of a 7D or D300s.  Still if you are not shoting sports or wildlife the speed of any recent MFT camera is good enough.

I do not own a GH3.  So I am not a Panasonic fanboy.  I got an E-M5 a few months before the GH3 was even announced.  I have about 20,000 photos on it in the year that I own it.  For the past few months I have a RRS grip on it.  The grip does help in holding the camera but does nothing for those too small buttons and having to dive into the SCP to make basic changes.  Plus in a day of shoting I usually end up on my third battery.  Luckily I own four batteries.   If I haven't already won the E-M5 I will most likely own the GH3 instead of the E-M5.  It as several advantages for my use over the E-M5.  My wife has a E-PL2 and a week old E-M5.  The E-M5 is the best camera for her beacuse she always had the optional EVF on her E-PL2 and a smaller size body  and the lack of direct controls are important for her.  Anyhow, the G-seies, GH-series and OMD series cameras IMHO are a lot nice to use than those small bars of soap with a lens on one side and a screen on the other.

Anyhow, like I said in my pervious post is that it is a good thing to see  MFT range of camera from these "small bars of soap cameras" to the dslr size camera.  Choice is a good thing.  If the HG-3 is not your thing then don't buy it.

Dave

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Jorginho
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Re: If you think that you lost contact with reality.
In reply to NZ Scott, Jun 18, 2013

I have a Gh2 and an EPl5. I don't like the EM5 all that much. I am not good at framing anyways...

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MichaelKJ
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Re: Why Samsung? Panny showed it already.
In reply to PAUL TILL, Jun 18, 2013

PAUL TILL wrote:

MichaelKJ wrote:

Winston Loo wrote:

NZ Scott wrote:

Jorginho wrote:

I found this Samsung rather ugly btw. Olyw as very right in carving out a niche with their retro style. Add a grip and you're oke.

Add a grip and you're $300 poorer.

Who cares if the Samsung is ugly?

It's surprising how many people in this thread value form over function.

S

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Gee. millions in the world flock to i devices by apple because of FORM and FUNCTION. The E-M5 has both. The Samsung is terribly ugly and so what if it has a gorgeous 4" screen. No buttons for fast navigation. imagine the tons of fingerprints that will attract etc. Sorry.. i vote form over function any day.

I assume you aren't serious. Would you, for example, prefer a 2MP camera that you thought had better "form" than the E-M5?

You're taking it to an extreme, with the same sensor what would you prefer? EXACTLY.

Taking things to an extreme is useful for pointing out logical fallacies.

Asking which camera I would prefer with the same sensor is eliminating one aspect of function. It also suggests that you do, in fact, prefer at least one aspect of function (sensor quality) over form. If we take this to its logical extreme and eliminate all functional differences, you are simply asking if form matters at all to me.

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Bob Tullis
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Re: Samsung gets it right - look here, Oly!
In reply to NZ Scott, Jun 18, 2013

NZ Scott wrote:

The main problem with the Samsung is that it lacks room for physical controls. However, that's because it has an enormous 4.3 inch display. Knock that puppy down to 3 inches, add some dials and buttons, and Bob's your uncle.

So much for getting it right.

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