E5 shutter dies ... in the middle of shooting Taylor Swift

Started Jun 17, 2013 | Discussions
Skeeterbytes
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Re: the problem
In reply to rovingtim, Jun 18, 2013

Is there any kind of industry standard for shutter MTBF? I presume most, if not all shutters are made by third parties (e.g., Casio) and the two companies collaborate on performance specs, including MTBF. Any lifespan claim should come from such a collaboration.

We consumers aren't in a position to know the actual typical lifespan and only hear of failures, for the most part. For myself, my expectation is longer life from my E-5 and E-30 than, say, my E-510 or E-M5. But it may be the advanced models' higher shutter speed causes more stress on the mechanism than the lower-spec models. It would take an engineer with inside knowledge to know.

If y'all would like to see a shutter nightmare, look at an original Contax rangefinder. We've come a long way.

Cheers,

Rick

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jkrumm
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Re: E5 shutter dies ... in the middle of shooting Taylor Swift
In reply to Doug Brown, Jun 18, 2013

No fun for sure. Mine died early too. I had the extended warranty so costs came out even (it was the only time I ever used the warranty). Been working fine since, but of course as a pro it would make one think about back-up options.

The only other warranty issue I've had is the motor failing on my 50-200 swd.

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Doug Brown
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Re: the problem
In reply to rovingtim, Jun 18, 2013

rovingtim wrote:

The problem isn't that the shutter failed. The problem is that Olympus's promises 150,000 actuations from this "top pro camera" and that when their cameras fail at a fraction of that promised total, Olympus throws their hands up and says "Not my problem!"

150,000 shutter cycles is a normal achievement for a jobbing pro. The E1 routinely reached these totals so Olympus knows how to do it if they wanted to.

Seriously? You know of many E1's reaching that number of activations?
I know you champion the E1 camera, but it wasn't very well accepted in the profession and most were sold off at fire sale prices near the end of it's production life.

Whenever I see used E1's advertised I'm always amazed at how low the mileage on them is, considering it's a pro-level camera.

Anyway, my news gets worse as now it seems the mirror assembly isn't operational either. Perhaps the shutter blade is lodged in there somewhere.

I like using the E-M5 so much I'm considering a second OMD body, or the new pro OMD instead of getting the E5 fixed. Will wait and see what it's like.

Douglas Brown

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rovingtim
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Re: the problem
In reply to Doug Brown, Jun 18, 2013

Hi Doug,

Yeah, I know there a lot of low mileage E1's around. The problem with the E1 as a professional camera when it first came out was the severe shortage of lenses and accessories. Also, it was a completely unknown quantity. Only the very hardy risked it. However, considering what was there at the time, it developed a surprisingly large professional following developed (though not compared to CaNikon). At least a few of these cameras saw 200,000 clicks. While, I don't know what the average shutter life is on an E1, even in its heyday I rarely heard of shutter failures -- except in the very beginning.

As a result of these early problems, Olympus immediately responded and put in a new shutter in the E1. You can tell because the very first E1's did not have the recock electrical whine that the 'new' shutter had. However, as far as I'm aware, the 'new' shutter held out very well indeed. Rarely heard of any problems. Even today, 10 years after its original release, how often do you hear of an E1 shutter failure? It happens, but not often. Usually the sensor goes before the shutter does.

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CollBaxter
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Re: E5 shutter dies ... in the middle of shooting Taylor Swift
In reply to Doug Brown, Jun 18, 2013

Hell Doug that's a bummer , especially the timing.

Things always break at the wrong time.

My E-5 broke a shutter blade at 30,000 activations . Fortunately it was under warranty. (11 months) . Last month the OVF and top panel display started failing intermittently. I think its a lose ribbon cable , maybe not put back in properly  from the shutter replacement. Its out of warranty though , I have a MAC extended warranty on the camera but I have to pay shipping costs to and back from the US. I will see what  the local guys can do. So at the moment its the E-30 that keeps on going. (And the E-620)

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AussieAndo
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Re: E5 shutter dies ... in the middle of shooting Taylor Swift
In reply to dave gaines, Jun 19, 2013

dave gaines wrote:

... I think your E-5 shitter is just fried ...

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Dave

Nice freudian slip there Dave

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agogo
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My E3 is close to maxing out....
In reply to Doug Brown, Jun 19, 2013

.......after 5.5 years and still going strong!

I'm expecting it to die sometime soon, although I'm not using it that much these days.

It has been the most durable camera I've ever owned.

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YouDidntDidYou
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Re: E5 shutter dies ... in the middle of shooting Taylor Swift
In reply to Doug Brown, Jun 19, 2013

My Panasonic L10's are both on 200,000+ shutter actuations

living life to the Four Thirds!
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YouDidntDidYou
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Re: E5 shutter dies ... in the middle of shooting Taylor Swift
In reply to Doug Brown, Jun 19, 2013

Doug Brown wrote:

RoelHendrickx wrote:

Sorry to hear.

Only dead shutter I have experienced, was on an E-300 that I got thrown in for free as extra with the purchase of a lens combo (14-54 and 50) from a pro photographer. This was years ago : he must have known the camera was going DOA.

My E-3 and E-5 still have a solid shutter (touching wood).

But I love the "Taylor Swift filter". Funky!!

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Roel Hendrickx
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Perhaps I should recommend this filter to Olympus (render the top 1/3 of the frame at a shutter speed several times slower than the actual speed) and out of gratitude Olympus will fix my E5 for free, and Taylor Swift will send me a free CD for all the royalties she'll be raking in on naming rights. : )

Douglas Brown

...a light leaks art filter is on my request list for the O-MD Pro or E-7

living life to the Four Thirds!
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bobn2
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Re: the problem
In reply to goblin, Jun 19, 2013

goblin wrote:

rovingtim wrote:

The problem isn't that the shutter failed. The problem is that Olympus's promises 150,000 actuations from this "top pro camera" and that when their cameras fail at a fraction of that promised total, Olympus throws their hands up and says "Not my problem!"

150,000 shutter cycles is a normal achievement for a jobbing pro. The E1 routinely reached these totals so Olympus knows how to do it if they wanted to.

The actual problem is that people read one thing and interpret it the way it arranges them. I dare anyone to find anywhere an official mention of Olympus promising 150000 shutter actuations. There is no such thing.

The shutter is "tested" for 150000 shutter actuations as per Olympus or "rated / expected to survive at least" 150000 actuations as per the magazine and online reviews who stay on the serious side of things.

Everything else is wishful thinking / urban legend which feeds on itself. No promises here. Not from Olympus, nor from any other camera brand. I have yet to see any brand giving a specific shutter warranty the way some automakers give a longer "powertrain" warranty than the warranty of the rest of the car.

You do need to check with consumer legislation wherever you are though. In many the claim 'tested for 150000 shutter actuations' would be seen as an advertising claim leading the consumer to reasonably expect that the shutter would last 150000 actuations, and the supplier would have to make good on it, warranty or no warranty.

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Art_P
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that site listes the E-3
In reply to rovingtim, Jun 19, 2013

but you have to search for it... http://www.olegkikin.com/shutterlife/oly_e3.htm

'Average number of actuations after which shutter died: 68,877.0'

Certainly not as good as one would expect.  Top Nikon and Canon cameras do much better.

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rovingtim
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That tallies with Doug's experience
In reply to Art_P, Jun 19, 2013

It is also far below what Oly suggests this camera is engineered to do.

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rovingtim
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I stand corrected - E1
In reply to rovingtim, Jun 19, 2013

Though the sample size is quite small, the E1 doesn't do much better.

http://www.olegkikin.com/shutterlife/oly_e1.htm

However, out of 43 cameras, the E1 had 6 shutter failures. Out of 48 cameras, the E3 had 14 shutter failures.

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Doug Brown
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Question ....
In reply to YouDidntDidYou, Jun 19, 2013

What is the button push sequence for finding out the number of actuations on an E5?

Let's find out exactly how many frames this puppy did before the shutter fried.

Douglas Brown

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Harri Fin H5
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Re: Question ....
In reply to Doug Brown, Jun 19, 2013

Hi

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/37493012

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Doug Brown
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89,000 and change ....
In reply to Harri Fin H5, Jun 19, 2013

Thank-you for the info.

According to the screen the camera did 89,047 releases.

That's better than I thought (would have guessed 65-70,000 because I have been mainly using the E-M5 for the last year) but it's a fair distance from the advertised 150,000.

Still, 89,000 is not bad if you are an enthusiast who's not eating up mileage shooting commercial work.

Douglas Brown

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Harri Fin H5
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Re: 89,000 and change ....
In reply to Doug Brown, Jun 19, 2013

Hi again

more info

The shutter mechanism is Seiko's

,,,I hope you get your camera repaired

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Josh152
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Re: the problem
In reply to bobn2, Jun 19, 2013

Bobn2 wrote:

goblin wrote:

rovingtim wrote:

The problem isn't that the shutter failed. The problem is that Olympus's promises 150,000 actuations from this "top pro camera" and that when their cameras fail at a fraction of that promised total, Olympus throws their hands up and says "Not my problem!"

150,000 shutter cycles is a normal achievement for a jobbing pro. The E1 routinely reached these totals so Olympus knows how to do it if they wanted to.

The actual problem is that people read one thing and interpret it the way it arranges them. I dare anyone to find anywhere an official mention of Olympus promising 150000 shutter actuations. There is no such thing.

The shutter is "tested" for 150000 shutter actuations as per Olympus or "rated / expected to survive at least" 150000 actuations as per the magazine and online reviews who stay on the serious side of things.

Everything else is wishful thinking / urban legend which feeds on itself. No promises here. Not from Olympus, nor from any other camera brand. I have yet to see any brand giving a specific shutter warranty the way some automakers give a longer "powertrain" warranty than the warranty of the rest of the car.

You do need to check with consumer legislation wherever you are though. In many the claim 'tested for 150000 shutter actuations' would be seen as an advertising claim leading the consumer to reasonably expect that the shutter would last 150000 actuations, and the supplier would have to make good on it, warranty or no warranty.

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Bob

I was thinking the exact same thing. They didn't just make some vague claim about durability they gave the shutter a specific number of actuations it was tested to be able to do before failure.  I am pretty sure here in the U.S. if it could be proven that the shutters fail before the claimed number of actuations they would be liable under truth in advertising laws. Especially since people are getting less than half the claimed actuations.  The issue would be proving it was every camera and not just a defect with that specific one or a specific production run.  This would probably require expensive testing.

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bobn2
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Re: the problem
In reply to Josh152, Jun 19, 2013

Josh152 wrote:

Bobn2 wrote:

goblin wrote:

rovingtim wrote:

The problem isn't that the shutter failed. The problem is that Olympus's promises 150,000 actuations from this "top pro camera" and that when their cameras fail at a fraction of that promised total, Olympus throws their hands up and says "Not my problem!"

150,000 shutter cycles is a normal achievement for a jobbing pro. The E1 routinely reached these totals so Olympus knows how to do it if they wanted to.

The actual problem is that people read one thing and interpret it the way it arranges them. I dare anyone to find anywhere an official mention of Olympus promising 150000 shutter actuations. There is no such thing.

The shutter is "tested" for 150000 shutter actuations as per Olympus or "rated / expected to survive at least" 150000 actuations as per the magazine and online reviews who stay on the serious side of things.

Everything else is wishful thinking / urban legend which feeds on itself. No promises here. Not from Olympus, nor from any other camera brand. I have yet to see any brand giving a specific shutter warranty the way some automakers give a longer "powertrain" warranty than the warranty of the rest of the car.

You do need to check with consumer legislation wherever you are though. In many the claim 'tested for 150000 shutter actuations' would be seen as an advertising claim leading the consumer to reasonably expect that the shutter would last 150000 actuations, and the supplier would have to make good on it, warranty or no warranty.

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Bob

I was thinking the exact same thing. They didn't just make some vague claim about durability they gave the shutter a specific number of actuations it was tested to be able to do before failure. I am pretty sure here in the U.S. if it could be proven that the shutters fail before the claimed number of actuations they would be liable under truth in advertising laws. Especially since people are getting less than half the claimed actuations. The issue would be proving it was every camera and not just a defect with that specific one or a specific production run. This would probably require expensive testing.

It depends on the different laws. Here in the UK, if the advertising led you to make a reasonable expectation on which you based your purchase, and it turned out not to be true, then the supplier has deemed to have broken the contract of sale. The key thing is are the goods sold 'fit for purpose' and if the advertised and implied purpose of the shutter was to last 150,000 actuations, then if your shutter doesn't last that long, the manufacturer must make good. Of course, some shutters are bound to fail before the 150k by simple statistics, but the manufacturer should take those costs into account before making the claim - in fact the only difference between a 150k and 200k shutter might be the set-aside for meeting such claims (obviously making the 200k shutter cost more). So, what I'm getting round to is that her you wouldn't have to prove anything about any camera other than yours. The only thing you'd need to prove is that the advertising claim could reasonably be construed as saying that the shutter would last 150k actuations, and courts have been quite eager to skin the weasel words.

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Bob

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YouDidntDidYou
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200,000+ actuations
In reply to Doug Brown, Jun 20, 2013

Doug Brown wrote:

Thank-you for the info.

According to the screen the camera did 89,047 releases.

That's better than I thought (would have guessed 65-70,000 because I have been mainly using the E-M5 for the last year) but it's a fair distance from the advertised 150,000.

Still, 89,000 is not bad if you are an enthusiast who's not eating up mileage shooting commercial work.

Douglas Brown

I very rarely use high burst settings so maybe thats why my cameras are still going strong
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