LF1 Vs Other : LX7, S110, RX100

Started Jun 15, 2013 | Discussions
James Pilcher
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fair enough (nt)
In reply to tkbslc, Jun 19, 2013

tkbslc wrote:

James Pilcher wrote:

These are two entirely different cameras aimed at different types of users. Comparing them makes little sense. Panasonic created the LF1 for those who look at zoom range and megapixels first; in other words the mass consumer market. I'm more interested in lens speed and the variable aspect ratio sensor implementation.

I disagree. Those kind of people would not appreciate the viewfinder, f2.0 lens or RAW. The kind of people you describe are the ones who have made the TZ/ZS lineup successful.

The LF1 competes directly with the Canon S110 and in some regards the RX100, even though it has a smaller sensor. It's a premium compact/DSLR companion kind of camera.

Jim Pilcher
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kkardster
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Re: LF1 Vs Other : LX7, S110, RX100
In reply to Lumixdude, Jun 19, 2013

Lumixdude wrote:

Complete and utter rubbish 90% of the claims are false. All of these are false on the first link

LX7:

  • Has WiFi (Who cares?)

While you may get some satisfaction dissing a feature you don't need/use, some people actually do care and find these features useful. I for one wish my FZ200 had the WiFi control capability some of their newer cameras have, allowing full control (including remote viewfinder) from a SmartPhone or iPod. For now I get by with a wireless remote, but it would be nice to see what's in the frame and make adjustments from afar.

GPS is also often dissed, but also has its purposes - enough so that there are applications to marry camera and GPS data for geopositioning photos from cameras that don't natively include GPS positioning.

I could make a similar statement about the LX7's Multi Aspect Ratio sensor, but others do care.  Branding a feature you don't need/use with a "Who cares?" lends a bit of bias (and thus skepticism) to your post.

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Bruce
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kkardster
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Re: Not helpful
In reply to morepix, Jun 19, 2013

morepix wrote:

Maybe the original post was well-intentioned, but it doesn't add much value. As others have noted, the comparison with the LX7 has several errors, casting doubt on the whole thing.

I question the original intent - throwing up a bunch of links to somewhat dubious "reviews" with no context...

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GeraldW
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Re: LF1 Vs Other : LX7, S110, RX100
In reply to tmgp, Jun 19, 2013

Hopefully, we'll see Canon's hand before I have to make a decision.

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GeraldW
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Re: LF1 Vs Other : LX7, S110, RX100
In reply to tmgp, Jun 19, 2013

I'd like to see reviews from Imaging-Resource, DPReview, and CameraLabs before I commit.

Right now there are at least four reviews out, and all are positive; except that two of them mentioned weaker colors than they'd like; although at one of those, their images look fine to me.

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Jerry

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Robert Anderson
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Re: LF1 Vs Other : LX7, S110, RX100
In reply to GeraldW, Jun 19, 2013

To my eye, the LF1 images look as sharp or sharper in the center as the LX7, but they look very soft towards the edges. I don't think this is a matter of default settings.

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technic
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Re: LF1 Vs Other : LX7, S110, RX100
In reply to Robert Anderson, Jun 20, 2013

Robert Anderson wrote:

To my eye, the LF1 images look as sharp or sharper in the center as the LX7, but they look very soft towards the edges. I don't think this is a matter of default settings.

which LF1 images look soft? IMHO the WA images look just as good in the corners as S110 and similar cameras. I always check border/corner sharpness in the WA range because that is important to me, but I see nothing really wrong in the first LF1 images (but I didn't check all of them ...). The only negative I see is more than average PF in high contrast situations.

At 200mm equiv. the LF1 borders/corners are relatively soft indeed, but that's better than only 90/120mm maximum tele ...

Without controlled comparison shots it is difficult to make definitive statements about image quality.

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Robert Anderson
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Re: LF1 Vs Other : LX7, S110, RX100
In reply to technic, Jun 20, 2013

Look at the studio shots at imaging-resource. The paint brush and proportional scale on the right side and the crayons and fabric on the left really show the difference between the LX7 and LF1 in edge sharpness.

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technic
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Re: LF1 Vs Other : LX7, S110, RX100
In reply to Robert Anderson, Jun 20, 2013

Robert Anderson wrote:

Look at the studio shots at imaging-resource. The paint brush and proportional scale on the right side and the crayons and fabric on the left really show the difference between the LX7 and LF1 in edge sharpness.

I don't trust that type of studio shots, they are too vulnerable to field curvature and small changes in focus, and not representative of real life shots at larger focus distance (landscape / architecture style). Some lenses perform well in such studio shots at 1-3m distance, others perform better near infinity (which is more important to me).

I looked at several real-life shots from LF1 in online reviews that were taken with (almost) infinity focus, and corner/border sharpness of the LF1 looks fine there even at f/2.8. Could be that LX7 is even better in the corners, but there are no controlled comparisons available.

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GeraldW
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Re: LF1 Vs Other : LX7, S110, RX100
In reply to Robert Anderson, Jun 20, 2013

I take your point.  Also, the fact that the softness at the sides is uniform, left to right, tells me that the softness is not due to a tilted element; but is inherent in the design.  I'll have to see if I can find some more distant shots to see if that's distance related or not.  In my case it's not LF1 Vs LX7; but LF1 Vs my existing S90.

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GeraldW
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Re: LF1 Vs Other : LX7, S110, RX100
In reply to GeraldW, Jun 20, 2013

To Robert Anderson,

I just checked the LF1 Vs LX7 on the I-R comparitor.  The LX7 is, as you said, much more uniform across the image.  It also shows (at least to my eyes) that the LF1 sharpness falls off less on the left than it does on the right.  So perhaps even my earlier comment on the LF1 not showing evidence of tilted elements may be wrong.  However,even with the edge softness, the LF1 outperforms my S90 at higher ISO.

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tmgp
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Re: LF1 Vs Other : LX7, S110, RX100
In reply to GeraldW, Jun 20, 2013

to me it's about the alternatives to LF1... For the moment S110 vs LF1, and if the right deal strikes, the RX100 (not as pocket friendly, but great IQ and movie mode)...

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MichaelKz
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Re: LF1 Vs Other : LX7, S110, RX100
In reply to tmgp, Jun 20, 2013

tmgp wrote:

to me it's about the alternatives to LF1... For the moment S110 vs LF1, and if the right deal strikes, the RX100 (not as pocket friendly, but great IQ and movie mode)...

It continues to baffle me that several people consider cameras without integral viewfinders to be real alternatives to the LF1.  To me, the EVF is the BIG deal, much more than a minimal difference in IQ.

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technic
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Re: LF1 Vs Other : LX7, S110, RX100
In reply to MichaelKz, Jun 20, 2013

MichaelKz wrote:

tmgp wrote:

to me it's about the alternatives to LF1... For the moment S110 vs LF1, and if the right deal strikes, the RX100 (not as pocket friendly, but great IQ and movie mode)...

It continues to baffle me that several people consider cameras without integral viewfinders to be real alternatives to the LF1. To me, the EVF is the BIG deal, much more than a minimal difference in IQ.

Agree that the EVF is very important. However a swivel LCD can help with viewing in bright light and working with the camera close to the body for stabilisation (and for attracting less attention as a photographer). The rumoured RX100 mkII is a step in the right direction (plus a swivel LCD can have other advantages).

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Robert Anderson
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Re: LF1 Vs Other : LX7, S110, RX100
In reply to GeraldW, Jun 21, 2013

I was very excited about this camera when I first read the specs. It is the first pocketable camera with this size sensor having a long zoom range and an EVF. So far, the sample images have not been very impressive. I hope that we see some complete reviews with more and better samples soon.

I am very happy with my RX100. It would be nice to have an EVF and a bit more zoom but not at the cost of image quality.

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utomo99
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Canon S120 or S200 Re: LF1 Vs Other : LX7, S110, RX100
In reply to GeraldW, Jun 21, 2013

GeraldW wrote:

Hopefully, we'll see Canon's hand before I have to make a decision.

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Jerry

You mean the upcoming S110 replacement ? some people call it S200

I guess it will be announced in August or September

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Robert Anderson
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Re: LF1 Vs Other : LX7, S110, RX100
In reply to MichaelKz, Jun 21, 2013

I agree that the EVF is a big deal, if the resolution is good enough. Hope to see a real review soon.

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MichaelKz
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Re: LF1 Vs Other : LX7, S110, RX100
In reply to Robert Anderson, Jun 21, 2013

Robert Anderson wrote:

I agree that the EVF is a big deal, if the resolution is good enough. Hope to see a real review soon.

New review (today, June 21, I think) reports that the EVF is not so usable:
http://www.pocket-lint.com/review/121485-panasonic-lumix-lf1-review

I was hesitant to pre-order for just such a reason.  I live a few blocks from Adorama, and will head there (or B&H, also nearby) when it comes out, so I can see for myself.  It will be a big disappointment if the EVF is poor.

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tkpatric
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Re: LF1 Vs Other : LX7, S110, RX100
In reply to MichaelKz, Jun 21, 2013

MichaelKz wrote:

Robert Anderson wrote:

I agree that the EVF is a big deal, if the resolution is good enough. Hope to see a real review soon.

New review (today, June 21, I think) reports that the EVF is not so usable:
http://www.pocket-lint.com/review/121485-panasonic-lumix-lf1-review

I was hesitant to pre-order for just such a reason. I live a few blocks from Adorama, and will head there (or B&H, also nearby) when it comes out, so I can see for myself. It will be a big disappointment if the EVF is poor.

I have never read such stupid conclusions like at Pocket-lint.

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Timj351
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Re: LF1 Vs Other : LX7, S110, RX100
In reply to tkpatric, Jun 21, 2013

tkpatric wrote:

MichaelKz wrote:

Robert Anderson wrote:

I agree that the EVF is a big deal, if the resolution is good enough. Hope to see a real review soon.

New review (today, June 21, I think) reports that the EVF is not so usable:
http://www.pocket-lint.com/review/121485-panasonic-lumix-lf1-review

I was hesitant to pre-order for just such a reason. I live a few blocks from Adorama, and will head there (or B&H, also nearby) when it comes out, so I can see for myself. It will be a big disappointment if the EVF is poor.

I have never read such stupid conclusions like at Pocket-lint.

I thought it was pretty fair. They presented some strengths and weaknesses of the camera that seemed pretty accurate to me. It doesn't mean that you can't still capture great images with it with a little effort. Their main point is that it is a little bit too compromised for the suggested price. It still might be perfect for a lot of people though.

I sure didn't like the fact that the Wi-Fi button turns the camera on!? What's up with that?

-Tim

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