DPM-colors reviewed

Started Jun 14, 2013 | Discussions
Guenter Borgemeister
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DPM-colors reviewed
Jun 14, 2013

I took images with all WB-settings except bulb with all the DPM´s, all settings and colorspaces equal.

Subject was a print of an image in a window-lit room, all cameras set to 0.6sec. f4 ISO100 sRGB, shots taken in Camera-JPG-mode.

I just changed the distance to the print according to the different focallengths.

My conclusion is, the difference isn´t that strong anymore. Unlike before the recent FW-update, DP1 and DP2 are about equal, DP3 still has nicer colors with more saturation, even in auto or custom WB.

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BobNL
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Re: DPM-colors reviewed
In reply to Guenter Borgemeister, Jun 14, 2013

thanks, looks indeed much better. not great yet but much better Updating my firmwares now!

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Johan Borg
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Re: DPM-colors reviewed
In reply to Guenter Borgemeister, Jun 14, 2013

Guenter Borgemeister wrote:

My conclusion is, the difference isn´t that strong anymore. Unlike before the recent FW-update, DP1 and DP2 are about equal, DP3 still has nicer colors with more saturation, even in auto or custom WB.

After taking a couple of before/after shots with the DP2M and compared it to DP3M on older firmware, I must agree: The DP3M still has a bit richer colors than the DP2M, at least in the shadows (see lower left corner).

DP3M (firmware 1.01, Sunlight WB)

DP2M (firmware 1.05, Sunlight WB)

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yvind Strm
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Re: DPM-colors reviewed
In reply to Guenter Borgemeister, Jun 14, 2013

Nice! Very useful.

BTW: I recall you did a great job calibrating your SD14s some years ago, and was using the 144 patch to calibrate precisely.

How do the SD1 and the DPmx models fare in regard to that. Can they be calibrated with a 16 patch?

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Kendall Helmstetter Gelner
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Missing vector - color mode?
In reply to Guenter Borgemeister, Jun 16, 2013

I appreciate your time taken in putting that all together.

However one key aspect is not clear - what color mode what used to process?  To my mind that can have as much to say about the color output as the white balance.

Ideally, it would be awesome to see a sheet like you produced for each color mode...  I know that is a lot of extra work, do you have the raw files for that shot somewhere?

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Guenter Borgemeister
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Re: DPM-colors reviewed
In reply to yvind Strm, Jun 16, 2013

yvind Strm wrote:

Nice! Very useful.

BTW: I recall you did a great job calibrating your SD14s some years ago, and was using the 144 patch to calibrate precisely.

How do the SD1 and the DPmx models fare in regard to that. Can they be calibrated with a 16 patch?

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Kind regards
Øyvind

Hi Øyvind, I didn´t try calibrating the DP´s yet, should I ever do, I´ll let you know.

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Guenter Borgemeister
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Re: Missing vector - color mode?
In reply to Kendall Helmstetter Gelner, Jun 16, 2013

Kendall Helmstetter Gelner wrote:

I appreciate your time taken in putting that all together.

However one key aspect is not clear - what color mode what used to process? To my mind that can have as much to say about the color output as the white balance.

Ideally, it would be awesome to see a sheet like you produced for each color mode... I know that is a lot of extra work, do you have the raw files for that shot somewhere?

Hi Kendall, you are right, forgot about that.

Color mode on all shots was set to neutral.

If you want to spent a day doing as you proposed, I will be happy to send the RAW-files to you via Dropbox.

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digi2ap
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Re: DPM-colors reviewed
In reply to Guenter Borgemeister, Jun 16, 2013

Thanks for doing this. To my eyes the differences appear the least when using the CWB. Perhaps setting a CWB is more important (than Bayer) when using Sigma cams to preserve colour accuracy? Can you say whether the CWB has also rendered the scene more accurately as you remember it?

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Kendall Helmstetter Gelner
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Re: Missing vector - color mode?
In reply to Guenter Borgemeister, Jun 16, 2013

Guenter Borgemeister wrote:

Kendall Helmstetter Gelner wrote:

I appreciate your time taken in putting that all together.

However one key aspect is not clear - what color mode what used to process? To my mind that can have as much to say about the color output as the white balance.

Ideally, it would be awesome to see a sheet like you produced for each color mode... I know that is a lot of extra work, do you have the raw files for that shot somewhere?

Hi Kendall, you are right, forgot about that.

Color mode on all shots was set to neutral.

If you want to spent a day doing as you proposed, I will be happy to send the RAW-files to you via Dropbox.

Well, since it was done in Neutral I'm somewhat less interested in actually running through other color modes as that was the main one I was interested in... thanks for the offer though.  I'm sadly too busy to perform that service for everyone just now.

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Guenter Borgemeister
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Re: DPM-colors reviewed
In reply to digi2ap, Jun 17, 2013

digi2ap wrote:

Thanks for doing this. To my eyes the differences appear the least when using the CWB. Perhaps setting a CWB is more important (than Bayer) when using Sigma cams to preserve colour accuracy? Can you say whether the CWB has also rendered the scene more accurately as you remember it?

Yes, CWB was the most accurate indeed.

And since in CWB the colors in the three cams are almost identical, I wonder why it shouldn´t be possible to get the colors identical in the wired color modes as well. In theory, that shouldn´t be a problem.

There´s another factor in the game of course, and that is consistency from sensor to sensor. I guess, that could be a problem for Foveon sensors more than for the Bayers.

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digi2ap
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Re: DPM-colors reviewed
In reply to Guenter Borgemeister, Jun 17, 2013

Thanks again. As I have recently ordered a neutral Expodisc white balance disc I think I'll be making more use of CWB in the future.

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PrebenR
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Re: DPM-colors reviewed
In reply to Johan Borg, Jun 17, 2013

I have not tested, but if you increase saturation to 0.1-0.2 would they then match?

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Johan Borg
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Re: DPM-colors reviewed
In reply to PrebenR, Jun 17, 2013

PrebenR wrote:

I have not tested, but if you increase saturation to 0.1-0.2 would they then match?

Colors will be closer overall, but increasing saturation on the DP2M also makes it more obvious how Sigma improved shadows with the DP3M (less desaturation). So, while 45mm is my favorite focal length, the DP3M is still my favorite camera

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Jefftan
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Re: DPM-colors reviewed
In reply to Johan Borg, Jun 22, 2013

Why is DP3M color better?  Is it a slightly updated sensor? or is just processing?

If just processing can get DP1M/Dp2M the same color in PP

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Jefftan
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Re: DPM-colors reviewed
In reply to Jefftan, Jun 22, 2013

In my eyes, DP1M has the worst color of the three

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Johan Borg
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Re: DPM-colors reviewed
In reply to Jefftan, Jun 23, 2013

Jefftan wrote:

Why is DP3M color better? Is it a slightly updated sensor? or is just processing?

If just processing can get DP1M/Dp2M the same color in PP

I had a look earlier at RAW files from the DP2M with Roland's X3F Tools ( http://www.proxel.se/x3f.html ) and it appeared to me that the desaturation of shadows existed to at least some extent in the X3F file itself, making it hard to guess the original color in post processing.

Whether that means the DP3M is physically different or just has a better firmware is another question...

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Jefftan
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Re: DPM-colors reviewed
In reply to Johan Borg, Jun 24, 2013

Johan Borg wrote:

Jefftan wrote:

Why is DP3M color better? Is it a slightly updated sensor? or is just processing?

If just processing can get DP1M/Dp2M the same color in PP

I had a look earlier at RAW files from the DP2M with Roland's X3F Tools ( http://www.proxel.se/x3f.html ) and it appeared to me that the desaturation of shadows existed to at least some extent in the X3F file itself, making it hard to guess the original color in post processing.

Whether that means the DP3M is physically different or just has a better firmware is another question...

I am only interested in the 19mm FL of DP1M.  Now that DP3M color is better for unknown reason, I think it is safer to wait for a successor model.

but that may be a long wait.

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PrebenR
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Re: DPM-colors reviewed
In reply to Jefftan, Jun 24, 2013

Jefftan wrote:

I am only interested in the 19mm FL of DP1M. Now that DP3M color is better for unknown reason, I think it is safer to wait for a successor model.

but that may be a long wait.

Well it depends if you are shooting RAW or not

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