I’m still waiting for the right m43 camera

Started Jun 8, 2013 | Discussions
Najinsky
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Re: I’m still waiting for the right m43 camera
In reply to Grobb, Jun 9, 2013

tron555 wrote:

These are the things I am looking for in a m43 camera to make me interested in purchasing one:

  • There is too much talk about shutter shock one certain cameras/lenses, they need to resolve this issue. Maybe go to electronic shutter?

More talk than issue. There is clearly some kind of issue, but it is obscure and so has many work arounds and you'd be unfortunate not to find one that suits you. OM-D is a great camera with reports of Shutter Shock outnumbered by orders of magnitude by people posting images with no shutter shock.

  • The high quality zooms are still WAY too expensive like the 12-35, 35-100 for example. These are the two lenses that interest me, but are cost prohibitive at this time.

They are constant 2.8 zooms. Try pricing them for any other system. It's difficult for true comparisons due to the imbalances inherent in equivalence, so just choose what you feel are equivalents that you'd like to shoot with in your preferred systems and see what you come up with.

  • Ergonomics, button layout, built in EVF/flash, etc… are not the norm yet. I need all of them. I know ergonomics and button layout are very subjective, but I have not seen one yet that meet my requirements. Panasonic is getting a lot closer than Oly and almost there.

If there were an infinite number of bodies, everyone could find their goldilocks. But at some point, if you want to buy a camera, you have to jump in with the most suitable rather than a 100% match. Or you can decide you don't really want a camera.

  • Focus tracking for sports/action shots have not evolved yet. Phase detection vs Contrast detection should be along within a year, or should be I hope!

It may never. People who want this as a primary requirement rarely go for m4/3 so your quest may be over before it begins. However, remember that lack of focus tracking doesn't guarantee you will miss the shot. And likewise, having focus tracking doesn't guarantee you get the shot. Focus tracking is an aid to help improve your chances in some circumstances.

  • 5 axis IBIS on all high end cameras is not standard yet and should be.

It only exists in one camera, the OM-D, and very soon/now the E-P5 as well, so in this respect it's the other systems that are out of luck, not M43. And they are missing out, because IBIS is an excellent feature. Very few I know of had this as a top feature when they bought the OM-D. Yet it's become one of the most talked about features because it was a delightful surprise that brought unforeseen bonuses.

  • Weather proofing should be standard on all high end cameras and lenses.

M4/3 only or all systems? What does that do to the price of your selected F/2.8 zooms for your system?

Hopefully, Panasonic/Olympus will come out with an all in one camera someday that meets these requirements. The GX2 or EM6 may bring things closer, but until all these issues are addressed, there are too many compromises, for me anyway. I know some will say “all cameras are compromises”, but for me, those listed are just too many for me to accept at this time.

Not really, a maximum of 3 apply to the OM-D, which is the only camera in any system that meets your 5 axis IBIS (unless E-P5 has hit the shelves yet).

You have the uncompromising demands of a P&S shooter. Someone who's not yet experienced 'jumping in'.

-Najinsky

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Grobb
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Re: I’m still waiting for the right m43 camera
In reply to Najinsky, Jun 9, 2013

You have the uncompromising demands of a P&S shooter. Someone who's not yet experienced 'jumping in'.

-Najinsky

I never jump into anything when the waters are so muddy and murky. When the time and camera is right, I will jump in. Until then, I can wait until the right camera is designed (m4/3 or otherwise) and qualitylenses are not so ridiculously expensive.

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Nikcan
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Re: I’m still waiting for the right m43 camera
In reply to Grobb, Jun 9, 2013

tron555 wrote:


You have the uncompromising demands of a P&S shooter. Someone who's not yet experienced 'jumping in'.

-Najinsky

I never jump into anything when the waters are so muddy and murky. When the time and camera is right, I will jump in. Until then, I can wait until the right camera is designed (m4/3 or otherwise) and qualitylenses are not so ridiculously expensive.

Oh well I have a the right m43 for me but wish it made the tea as well. The water here is very clear but it takes all sorts to make world.

See the quote under my signature it is very true

Best Regards Mike.
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HornOUBet
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Re: You are waiting for the ideal m43 camera.
In reply to Grobb, Jun 10, 2013

tron555 wrote:

eques wrote:

It looks, as if you are also still waiting for the right shoes, car, house, tv set, computer ....

Peter.

I already own ALL of those and quite happy with all of them. I even built my own computer since one did not exist with of the requirements I wanted. The only thing I don’t have yet is a camera that has what I want without all the compromises that I listed in my original post. As soon as the m4/3 system comes out with what I require, I will consider purchasing one. I wish some company would come out with a new and improved, highly efficient 1 inch sensor with 14-16 that has smaller/better quality lenses that would compete with m4/3 format since I am not interested in narrow DOF. Maybe that would make it more compact and desirable, for me anyway. I currently have a Canon G12 and would like to go to a larger sensor camera with much better/sharper IQ, faster everything, unfortunately one does not exist yet IMO.

Let us know where you will be and we will let you know when it's released...........

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jhinkey
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Re: I’m still waiting for the right m43 camera
In reply to Grobb, Jun 10, 2013

I'm waiting for the right m43 camera too, but in the mean time I got a GH-2 and 12-35/2.8 and it's doing me just fine.

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Mahmoud Mousef
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Re: I’m still waiting for the right m43 camera
In reply to Grobb, Jun 10, 2013

tron555 wrote:

These are the things I am looking for in a m43 camera to make me interested in purchasing one:

  • There is too much talk about shutter shock one certain cameras/lenses, they need to resolve this issue. Maybe go to electronic shutter?

DMC-G5

  • Ergonomics, button layout, built in EVF/flash, etc… are not the norm yet. I need all of them. I know ergonomics and button layout are very subjective, but I have not seen one yet that meet my requirements. Panasonic is getting a lot closer than Oly and almost there.

DMC-G5

  • Focus tracking for sports/action shots have not evolved yet. Phase detection vs Contrast detection should be along within a year, or should be I hope!
  • 5 axis IBIS on all high end cameras is not standard yet and should be.
  • Weather proofing should be standard on all high end cameras and lenses.

Hopefully, Panasonic/Olympus will come out with an all in one camera someday that meets these requirements.

Just curious: what are you using now?

The GX2 or EM6 may bring things closer, but until all these issues are addressed, there are too many compromises, for me anyway. I know some will say “all cameras are compromises”, but for me, those listed are just too many for me to accept at this time.

I was using my Olympus E-520 a couple of days ago (Four Thirds as opposed to Micro Four Thirds). Less compromise than some of my newer gear in many areas but still with its own weaknesses of course. You'll never escape compromise in any camera you buy. To me one of the joys of camera ownership is doing the best you can with what you have and capturing precious memories that will live forever rather than letting them slip by.

Tech lust is good in moderation, but with so many good deals on so many fine cameras, if I didn't already have a camera I'd snap one up without delay.

In the past I wanted a camera that did it all....that was before I discovered that each has its own unique personality and traits that you can exploit to your best advantage. No single camera will do it all, or do it all well...or even feel as right as another for a particular task.

Cameras that attempt to 'pack it all in' and please everyone on every level often come across as the biggest compromises to me, and I'm often unwilling to pay for them or carry them too.

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RoelHendrickx
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While you keep waiting...
In reply to Grobb, Jun 10, 2013

While you keep waiting, I will shoot with that µFT that is 95% ideal for me.

I waited a LONG time to get into µFT but I did with the first Oly camera that had an in-built EVF in a weathersealed body.  This is about a year ago and I still love using that camera.

tron555 wrote:

These are the things I am looking for in a m43 camera to make me interested in purchasing one:

  • There is too much talk about shutter shock one certain cameras/lenses, they need to resolve this issue. Maybe go to electronic shutter?
  • The high quality zooms are still WAY too expensive like the 12-35, 35-100 for example. These are the two lenses that interest me, but are cost prohibitive at this time.
  • Ergonomics, button layout, built in EVF/flash, etc… are not the norm yet. I need all of them. I know ergonomics and button layout are very subjective, but I have not seen one yet that meet my requirements. Panasonic is getting a lot closer than Oly and almost there.
  • Focus tracking for sports/action shots have not evolved yet. Phase detection vs Contrast detection should be along within a year, or should be I hope!
  • 5 axis IBIS on all high end cameras is not standard yet and should be.
  • Weather proofing should be standard on all high end cameras and lenses.

Hopefully, Panasonic/Olympus will come out with an all in one camera someday that meets these requirements. The GX2 or EM6 may bring things closer, but until all these issues are addressed, there are too many compromises, for me anyway. I know some will say “all cameras are compromises”, but for me, those listed are just too many for me to accept at this time.

Just checking off your list:

* shutter shock: never experienced it

* lenses: I use primes and the 12-50 that I find very capable

* ergonomics : subjective, but quite OK for me

* AF: good enough for my purposes, and yes, this is the only thing that I am hoping for too in an upgrade, with the purpose of even better use of my FT lenses

* IBIS : works pretty darn well, and I need it only on ONE camera (not on all the ones I will not buy)

* weather sealing : ditto.

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AllBrands
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Re: I’m still waiting for the right m43 camera
In reply to Grobb, Jun 10, 2013

Add to your list; Olympus lenses that are unstabilized when used on Panasonic bodies vs Panasonic lenses that don't auto-correct for distortion and CA when used on Olympus bodies.  That's not quite the open-standard functionality I had hoped for.

Or has this changed recently and I missed the memo?

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systemBuilder
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Re: I’m still waiting for the right m43 camera
In reply to Grobb, Jun 10, 2013

I am about to pull the trigger on an Olympus E-PL5 or E-PM2, the new models that have the same sensor as the OM-D.  First, some observations :

(1) They are giving away the bodies, get over it.  That's why the lenses are so darned expensive.  They are still trying to get the lens mount established, and to do this, they need extremely cheap entry-level cameras, i.e. the PEN cameras with 14-42 lens (a $50 lens) is crazy-cheap.

I feel there are 3 disappointments in these cameras :

(a) Video quality is marginal, and the focus system tends to "hunt" rather badly, especially when panning.  This is easily seen in the sample videos at www.cameralabs.com.  For video, imho, the Olympus cameras are a FAIL.

(b) Lack of a built-in flash is a disappointment, but I am buying these cameras because of their excellent low-light sharpness and size, and hopefully the flash will be necessary far less often with good low-light ability.

(c) I understand the user interface is horrible, and the E-PM2 doesn't even have a mode dial.  That's just ridiculous.  If my son's $99 Panasonic SZ-7 can have a mode dial, a $400 Olympus can have a mode dial!   If I want a mode dial I can get an E-PL5, but it has a big fat articulating screen that articulates in a really weird and un-useful way, to avoid cannibalizing digicam sales, I imagine.  If I get the larger E-PL5 I'll give up even more compactness, give up the flash, in return for a mode dial and stupid articulating screen.  Olympus, why are your cameras always too funky ??

After looking at many studio shots on the imaging resource website, at ISO 1600, and looking at the sharpness of e.g. "The Digital Proportional Scale", I can find no better cameras for indoor photography, quite surprisingly.  No DSLR does better.  I am through taking grainy smeared shots with a 1/2.33" Panasonic ZS-3 at boy scout events,  I need a micro 4/3rds camera, period.

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drcPhoto
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Re: I’m still waiting for the right m43 camera
In reply to PC Wheeler, Jun 10, 2013

PC Wheeler wrote:

jimoyer wrote:

You keep waiting, and we'll keep enjoying ours

Indeed! My GH3 with the two f/2.8 zooms never fails to satisfy me. I'd probably be equally pleased with the EM-5 based on the excellent images I've seen posted here and elsewhere, but the ergonomics (size, handling, menus, etc.) are not for me: The GH3 fits my hand perfectly and after GH1 and GH2 (both too small IMO) the GH3 menus feel very natural.

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Phil

Phil - I agree completely.  Couldn't be happier with the GH3 and the two Pana zooms.  It just fits right and works perfectly.  I would like a few specific primes someday too, but until then I couldn't be happier with my gear.

Dale

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Grobb
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Re: I’m still waiting for the right m43 camera
In reply to drcPhoto, Jun 10, 2013

drcPhoto wrote:

PC Wheeler wrote:

jimoyer wrote:

You keep waiting, and we'll keep enjoying ours

Indeed! My GH3 with the two f/2.8 zooms never fails to satisfy me. I'd probably be equally pleased with the EM-5 based on the excellent images I've seen posted here and elsewhere, but the ergonomics (size, handling, menus, etc.) are not for me: The GH3 fits my hand perfectly and after GH1 and GH2 (both too small IMO) the GH3 menus feel very natural.

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Phil

Phil - I agree completely. Couldn't be happier with the GH3 and the two Pana zooms. It just fits right and works perfectly. I would like a few specific primes someday too, but until then I couldn't be happier with my gear.

Dale

PC/Dale… if I had about $3,500 laying around to spend for the GH3 and both Panasonic 2.8 zooms, I’d probably be very happy with that kit myself. That would be my ultimate m4/3 setup that has the least amount of compromises that even Icould live with. Hopefully (in the not too distant future), a body similar to the GH3 and some 'slightly lessor' quality zooms lenses will be released that are more in line with my budget.

Tron555

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Moti
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Re: I’m still waiting for the right m43 camera
In reply to Grobb, Jun 10, 2013

tron555 wrote:

You have the uncompromising demands of a P&S shooter. Someone who's not yet experienced 'jumping in'.

-Najinsky

I never jump into anything when the waters are so muddy and murky.

I find the water vry clear and full of qualities but I guess that you should learn how to swim before you put your feet in. Blaming the water is always an easy excuse when one can't swim.

Moti

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