I’m still waiting for the right m43 camera

Started Jun 8, 2013 | Discussions
Elemental Photography
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I'd rather shoot in the present than the future
In reply to Grobb, Jun 8, 2013

Don't get me wrong, I think there is still lots of space to improve the state of m4/3 cameras. However, what I can use today is more than "good enough".
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Grobb
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Re: You are waiting for the ideal m43 camera.
In reply to eques, Jun 9, 2013

eques wrote:

It looks, as if you are also still waiting for the right shoes, car, house, tv set, computer ....

Peter.

I already own ALL of those and quite happy with all of them. I even built my own computer since one did not exist with of the requirements I wanted. The only thing I don’t have yet is a camera that has what I want without all the compromises that I listed in my original post. As soon as the m4/3 system comes out with what I require, I will consider purchasing one. I wish some company would come out with a new and improved, highly efficient 1 inch sensor with 14-16 that has smaller/better quality lenses that would compete with m4/3 format since I am not interested in narrow DOF. Maybe that would make it more compact and desirable, for me anyway. I currently have a Canon G12 and would like to go to a larger sensor camera with much better/sharper IQ, faster everything, unfortunately one does not exist yet IMO.

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wayfarers
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Re: I'd rather shoot in the present than the future
In reply to Elemental Photography, Jun 9, 2013

I agree with what you say, however I believe that typically thoughts like the one starting this thread are not leading to conclusion: "...and because of that I am not going to use any camera and I won't be taking any photos". I think that this is rather: "OK, so in some point in future I will be buying a new camera, and wouldn't it be nice if they finally change..." and a list of improvements follows. I think it is rare that seeing week points of a product, not so good implementation of certain functions, etc, etc leads an individual to conclude: "I will wait for a perfect product to come, and meanwhile, I will not be using anything" - that would be very silly attitude indeed.

Elemental Photography wrote:

Don't get me wrong, I think there is still lots of space to improve the state of m4/3 cameras. However, what I can use today is more than "good enough".
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woof woof
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Re: I'd rather shoot in the present than the future
In reply to wayfarers, Jun 9, 2013

I have a dfferent want list to the op...

- The availability of ISO 100 and the ability to shoot RAW at ISO 100. I would wish for ISO 50 but it just isn't going to happen.

- A max shutter speed of 1/8000 sec.

- A fully articulated screen.

- A built in EVF with light output low enough so that it is useable in low light / nightime without acting like a torch shining directly into my eye.

- Built in flash.

- In body IS.

- Small form RF and DSLR bodies to choose from and with a state of the art CSC market leading sensor.

Until all that is available I can't see MFT fully replacing my Canon setup, and I want it too, I really want to ditch the DSLR and run with just a CSC.

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eques
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Re: You are waiting for the ideal m43 camera.
In reply to Grobb, Jun 9, 2013

tron555 wrote:

eques wrote:

It looks, as if you are also still waiting for the right shoes, car, house, tv set, computer ....

Peter.

I already own ALL of those and quite happy with all of them. I even built my own computer since one did not exist with of the requirements I wanted.

It would be nice indeed, if there were modular cameras, we just could built like a sub sandwich. Technically this certainly would be possible.

The only thing I don’t have yet is a camera that has what I want without all the compromises that I listed in my original post. As soon as the m4/3 system comes out with what I require, I will consider purchasing one. I wish some company would come out with a new and improved, highly efficient 1 inch sensor with 14-16 that has smaller/better quality lenses that would compete with m4/3 format since I am not interested in narrow DOF.

Did you try? I wasn't interested in shallow DOF either, until I got a fast tele lens. It opens up a new dimension!

Maybe that would make it more compact and desirable, for me anyway. I currently have a Canon G12 and would like to go to a larger sensor camera with much better/sharper IQ,

Any mFT can give you that.

faster everything,

Any mFT camera is faster

unfortunately one does not exist yet IMO.

What I don't quite understand is that your all requirements have to be fulfilled by every mFT camera.
Perhaps you should consider to get more than one body, which I think is always a sensible thing to do - you have a back up, if one of them fails and you have less trouble changing lenses.

One last thing: if small size is important for you: perhaps you should look for a "enthusiast" compact camera like the G12: the Sony RX 100 offeres a larger sensor, even smaller size and might even be faster.

Peter.

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Marty4650
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Did anyone tell you this format was "for everyone?"
In reply to Grobb, Jun 9, 2013

There is NO single type of camera that is perfect for everyone. If you don't like this one, then buy something else.

The reason we have so many DIFFERENT types of cameras today is because not everyone has exactly the same needs and wants.

Personally, I don't want a $10,000 rangefinder camera. I don't like the limitations of a camera phone. I don't like the inconvenience and cost of using a medium format camera. But each of these sorts is perfect for someone.

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Grobb
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Re: You are waiting for the ideal m43 camera.
In reply to eques, Jun 9, 2013

What I don't quite understand is that your all requirements have to be fulfilled by every mFT camera.

Not fulfilled by every mFT, just one that fits my needs with less compromises than currently exists.

Perhaps you should consider to get more than one body, which I think is always a sensible thing to do - you have a back up, if one of them fails and you have less trouble changing lenses.

I only want one small/compact camera body to carry around, having more defeated the purpose.

One last thing: if small size is important for you: perhaps you should look for a "enthusiast" compact camera like the G12: the Sony RX 100 offers a larger sensor, even smaller size and might even be faster.

The G12 (which I already own) is an enthusiast camera but has reached it's end of life and no longer satisfies my IQ or responsiveness requirements. If the RX 100 had better ergonomics, 16MP instead of 20MP, and was a system camera with high quality/small lenses, I would certainly consider it.

Tron555

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The Jacal
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Re: I’m still waiting for the right m43 camera
In reply to Grobb, Jun 9, 2013

tron555 wrote:

These are the things I am looking for in a m43 camera to make me interested in purchasing one:

  • There is too much talk about shutter shock one certain cameras/lenses, they need to resolve this issue. Maybe go to electronic shutter?
  • The high quality zooms are still WAY too expensive like the 12-35, 35-100 for example. These are the two lenses that interest me, but are cost prohibitive at this time.
  • Ergonomics, button layout, built in EVF/flash, etc… are not the norm yet. I need all of them. I know ergonomics and button layout are very subjective, but I have not seen one yet that meet my requirements. Panasonic is getting a lot closer than Oly and almost there.
  • Focus tracking for sports/action shots have not evolved yet. Phase detection vs Contrast detection should be along within a year, or should be I hope!
  • 5 axis IBIS on all high end cameras is not standard yet and should be.
  • Weather proofing should be standard on all high end cameras and lenses.

Hopefully, Panasonic/Olympus will come out with an all in one camera someday that meets these requirements. The GX2 or EM6 may bring things closer, but until all these issues are addressed, there are too many compromises, for me anyway. I know some will say “all cameras are compromises”, but for me, those listed are just too many for me to accept at this time.

Maybe you should get in touch with Pany and Oly and tell them to collaborate more, or maybe just for you, to put all of the best bits from each manufacturer into a cam of your exacting requirements. And then, of course, sell it to you for the price of a GF5 or EMP1.

Looks like they'll lose a valuable customer if they don't.

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The Jacal
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Re: You are waiting for the ideal m43 camera.
In reply to Grobb, Jun 9, 2013

tron555 wrote:


What I don't quite understand is that your all requirements have to be fulfilled by every mFT camera.

Not fulfilled by every mFT, just one that fits my needs with less compromises than currently exists.

fewer.

Perhaps you should consider to get more than one body, which I think is always a sensible thing to do - you have a back up, if one of them fails and you have less trouble changing lenses.

I only want one small/compact camera body to carry around, having more defeated the purpose.

That's the point though. I went to Asia last year, hot, humid and dusty, the last thing I wanted to do was change lenses in dusty environments, waazay ff the beaten track, so I took two mf/t bodies. Both small and light, I certainly wouldn't have done that with my DSLR.

One last thing: if small size is important for you: perhaps you should look for a "enthusiast" compact camera like the G12: the Sony RX 100 offers a larger sensor, even smaller size and might even be faster.

The G12 (which I already own) is an enthusiast camera but has reached it's end of life and no longer satisfies my IQ or responsiveness requirements.

Was that, apart from the IQ, the perfect camera for you?

If the RX 100 had better ergonomics, 16MP instead of 20MP, and was a system camera with high quality/small lenses, I would certainly consider it.

So basically, you want a Sony RX100 with a different  body, different sensor and a different lens? So it'd be nothing like an RX100.

Sounds a bit like an EPM2 or GF5/6 you're describing here.

I really do wonder if this is (as mentioned before) a troll thread.

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exdeejjjaaaa
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Re: I’m still waiting for the right m43 camera
In reply to Grobb, Jun 9, 2013

tron555 wrote:

These are the things I am looking for in a m43 camera to make me interested in purchasing one:

  • There is too much talk about shutter shock one certain cameras/lenses, they need to resolve this issue. Maybe go to electronic shutter?

GH3

  • The high quality zooms are still WAY too expensive like the 12-35, 35-100 for example. These are the two lenses that interest me, but are cost prohibitive at this time.

nothing to do w/ "right m43 camera"

  • Ergonomics, button layout, built in EVF/flash, etc… are not the norm yet. I need all of them. I know ergonomics and button layout are very subjective, but I have not seen one yet that meet my requirements. Panasonic is getting a lot closer than Oly and almost there.

GH3

  • Focus tracking for sports/action shots have not evolved yet. Phase detection vs Contrast detection should be along within a year, or should be I hope!

on sensor PDAF will help you in a good light, but it will never be the same as separate PDAF sensors

  • 5 axis IBIS on all high end cameras is not standard yet and should be.

does not help with shutter shock (as EM5 thread perfectly illustrate), any kind of IS is evil for perfect sharpness...

  • Weather proofing should be standard on all high end cameras and lenses.

you have GH3 and EM5, lenses have nothing to do w/ "right m43 camera"

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bottom line, stop whining

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onlooker
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How dare you
In reply to Grobb, Jun 9, 2013

How dare you in any way imply that current cameras could be in any way improved? You are in the temple, and heathens like you are not welcome.  The fact that you own all of the cameras you mentioned will be ignored, and if noticed will not be considered in your favor. In fact, since you do, you will be declared guilty of apostasy.  Every word you say will be twisted and turned against you, no arguments will be listed to, your subsequent posts will not be read but will be responded to - repeatedly, and will appropriate ridicule.
Next time you come in remember to gently hum "Om" (you may skip the "d") and post some random unprocessed snapshots, and Olympus will be praised for its perfection, and praise shall also be bestowed upon you for producing such brilliant works of art that no human has ever produced before the days of Om (pronounce the "d").

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dougjgreen1
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Re: I'd rather shoot in the present than the future
In reply to Elemental Photography, Jun 9, 2013

Elemental Photography wrote:

Don't get me wrong, I think there is still lots of space to improve the state of m4/3 cameras. However, what I can use today is more than "good enough".

Yes, but if you are already shooting with something else, like a DSLR, the real question is, is there enough ADDED VALUE in moving to micro 4/3.  For me personally, I reached the point that there was, because I was tired of the bulk of my DSLRs and lenses that I wasn't bringing them on vacations -  but still only given the substantial price drops for cameras 1-2 generations older than the newest gear.  I recently bought in with an Oly E-PL2 and 14-42 kit lens for less than $200, and a Panasonic G5 with a 45-150 telephoto zoom with IS for less than $450 and miscellaneous adapters and spare batteries for about another $100.  So, at the level of investment where I could get a main camera and backup body, and 2 useful lenses and the necessary accessories for $750 yes it was worth it to me to make the move - while keeping my DSLRs until I could get enough familiarity and confidence it the robustness of the Micro 4/3 system to meet ALL of my needs.  But so far, I haven't bought any of the high grade lenses  or any new bodies which cost MAJOR bucks. The G5 actually surprised me by reaching a big price drop before it's replacement is in the stores and I bought - so really, I've just put my foot in the water - I haven't fully jumped in yet.

But that big G5 price drop so soon should be indicative that these cameras are over-priced when they are hitting the market.

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eques
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Re: You are waiting for the ideal m43 camera.
In reply to The Jacal, Jun 9, 2013

The Jacal wrote:

tron555 wrote:


What I don't quite understand is that your all requirements have to be fulfilled by every mFT camera.

Not fulfilled by every mFT, just one that fits my needs with less compromises than currently exists.

fewer.

Perhaps you should consider to get more than one body, which I think is always a sensible thing to do - you have a back up, if one of them fails and you have less trouble changing lenses.

I only want one small/compact camera body to carry around, having more defeated the purpose.

That's the point though. I went to Asia last year, hot, humid and dusty, the last thing I wanted to do was change lenses in dusty environments, waazay ff the beaten track, so I took two mf/t bodies. Both small and light, I certainly wouldn't have done that with my DSLR.

One last thing: if small size is important for you: perhaps you should look for a "enthusiast" compact camera like the G12: the Sony RX 100 offers a larger sensor, even smaller size and might even be faster.

The G12 (which I already own) is an enthusiast camera but has reached it's end of life and no longer satisfies my IQ or responsiveness requirements.

Well, waiting is one way to solve all problems.

Was that, apart from the IQ, the perfect camera for you?

If the RX 100 had better ergonomics, 16MP instead of 20MP, and was a system camera with high quality/small lenses, I would certainly consider it.

So basically, you want a Sony RX100 with a different  body, different sensor and a different lens? So it'd be nothing like an RX100.

Sounds a bit like an EPM2 or GF5/6 you're describing here.

I think, he wants a second generation Nikon 1, if indeed he wants anything.

I really do wonder if this is (as mentioned before) a troll thread.

I more and more believe it is.

N.B. I like trolls, if they have a sense of humor.

Peter.

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jedinstvo
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Mo biggah mo bettah
In reply to Grobb, Jun 9, 2013

My advice is git a full-frame camera. Get yourself a Canon 5D III and you'll be happy and fulfilled.

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Grobb
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Re: Mo biggah mo bettah
In reply to jedinstvo, Jun 9, 2013

jedinstvo wrote:

My advice is git a full-frame camera. Get yourself a Canon 5D III and you'll be happy and fulfilled.

Much too big, heavy, and expensive, I would not be happy or fulfilled, bad advice. That camera with a good set of quality lenses would cost how much and weigh how much? Maybe the new GX2 or E-M6 might be a consideration, IF either resolves or most of the issues I already mentioned in my OP.

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Grobb
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Re: You are waiting for the ideal m43 camera.
In reply to The Jacal, Jun 9, 2013

So basically, you want a Sony RX100 with a different  body, different sensor and a different lens? So it'd be nothing like an RX100.

Correct. A much better sensor and different (better) lenses and better ergonomics would be very interesting indeed. It might even give m4/3 a run for it's money if priced more reasonably and for those who do not want or like narrow DOF.

Sounds a bit like an EPM2 or GF5/6 you're describing here.

Incorrect. The EPM2 and GF5/6 or still plagued with the issues in my OP.

I really do wonder if this is (as mentioned before) a troll thread.

That's your problem. I'm simply pointing out facts that have kept me (and probably many others) from going to the m4/3 system cameras/lenses so far. If you feel the issues I have pointed out have zero merit, that is only your opinion.

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ulfie
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Waiting?
In reply to Grobb, Jun 9, 2013

The OP is waiting.  Waiting for gear-Godot?

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The Jacal
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Re: You are waiting for the ideal m43 camera.
In reply to Grobb, Jun 9, 2013

tron555 wrote:

So basically, you want a Sony RX100 with a different  body, different sensor and a different lens? So it'd be nothing like an RX100.

Correct. A much better sensor and different (better) lenses and better ergonomics would be very interesting indeed. It might even give m4/3 a run for it's money if priced more reasonably and for those who do not want or like narrow DOF.

Why mention an RX100 then?

Sounds a bit like an EPM2 or GF5/6 you're describing here.

Incorrect. The EPM2 and GF5/6 or still plagued with the issues in my OP.

As many others have said, there is no such thing as a perfect camera, just pick the one with the best ergonomics (for one thing) for you and adapt.

I really do wonder if this is (as mentioned before) a troll thread.

That's your problem.

Not when you come across as a troll, and not even a funny one.

I'm simply pointing out facts that have kept me (and probably many others) from going to the m4/3 system cameras/lenses so far.

It seems as if you're almost taking it as a personal affront by the consortium.

If you feel the issues I have pointed out have zero merit, that is only your opinion.

""If you feel"", so you're not sure, you're just getting your retaliation in first.

I don't feel your issues have zero merit, just the way it comes across is a bit 'woe is me'.  It always gets me when people post things here, and ask for opinions, and so many of the responses bleat on about 'personal preference' and berate the OP for asking, and then say something like 'just because it works for me doesn't mean it'll work for you', that's the point, people ask what works for some and not others, to get many different opinions.

Is this really so difficult?

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Photomonkey
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Stop blaming the camera
In reply to Grobb, Jun 9, 2013

They are tools with inherent limitations that good photographers work around or adapt to make great pictures.

No one has ever asked me if my pictures were better because of weatherproofing/IBIS/fast lenses etc.

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Hen3ry
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You forgot to mention …
In reply to Grobb, Jun 9, 2013

The automatic text generator that would produce "BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH" and then take advantage of the automatic bluetooth connection to your smart phone to upload that to DPR forums.

Of course, your ideal m43 purchase will be your first camera because no other camera incorporates everything you want to naturally you didn’t buy them.

But have no fear, the automatic picture finder in the m43 camera of your dreams will mean you can take instant advantage of your new cam to produce photographic masterpieces.

Cheers, geoff

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