I’m still waiting for the right m43 camera

Started 10 months ago | Discussions
tron555
Senior MemberPosts: 1,068Gear list
Like?
I’m still waiting for the right m43 camera
10 months ago

These are the things I am looking for in a m43 camera to make me interested in purchasing one:

  • There is too much talk about shutter shock one certain cameras/lenses, they need to resolve this issue. Maybe go to electronic shutter?
  • The high quality zooms are still WAY too expensive like the 12-35, 35-100 for example. These are the two lenses that interest me, but are cost prohibitive at this time.
  • Ergonomics, button layout, built in EVF/flash, etc… are not the norm yet. I need all of them. I know ergonomics and button layout are very subjective, but I have not seen one yet that meet my requirements. Panasonic is getting a lot closer than Oly and almost there.
  • Focus tracking for sports/action shots have not evolved yet. Phase detection vs Contrast detection should be along within a year, or should be I hope!
  • 5 axis IBIS on all high end cameras is not standard yet and should be.
  • Weather proofing should be standard on all high end cameras and lenses.

Hopefully, Panasonic/Olympus will come out with an all in one camera someday that meets these requirements. The GX2 or EM6 may bring things closer, but until all these issues are addressed, there are too many compromises, for me anyway. I know some will say “all cameras are compromises”, but for me, those listed are just too many for me to accept at this time.

PC Wheeler
Forum ProPosts: 13,111Gear list
Like?
Re: I’m still waiting for the right m43 camera
In reply to tron555, 10 months ago

I'm unconvinced that you have real interest in purchasing a m4/3 cameras. Your "complaints" are not well enough considered. For example, CDAF is one of the strengths of m4/3, not a weakness. The "expensive" 12-35 & 35-100 f/2.8 lenses are priced on a par with corresponding quality lenses for other systems. Etc.

-- hide signature --

Phil

 PC Wheeler's gear list:PC Wheeler's gear list
Canon PowerShot S100 Panasonic Lumix DMC-FZ200 Canon PowerShot G15 Panasonic Lumix DMC-GH3 Olympus M.Zuiko Digital ED 9-18mm 1:4.0-5.6 +5 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
eques
Senior MemberPosts: 1,556Gear list
Like?
You are waiting for the ideal m43 camera.
In reply to tron555, 10 months ago

It looks, as if you are also still waiting for the right shoes, car, house, tv set, computer ....

Peter.

 eques's gear list:eques's gear list
Panasonic Lumix G Vario 14-45mm F3.5-5.6 ASPH OIS Panasonic Lumix G 20mm F1.7 ASPH Samyang 7.5mm F3.5 UMC Fisheye MFT Panasonic Lumix G Vario 45-150mm F4-5.6 ASPH Mega OIS +1 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Jim Laurel
Regular MemberPosts: 210Gear list
Like?
Re: I’m still waiting for the right m43 camera
In reply to tron555, 10 months ago

I have been very pleased with the OMD. Shutter shock? Never noticed it.

Panasonic 12-35 f/2.8 is $1139. Canon 24-70 f/2.8 is $2099.

Panasonic 35-100 f/2.8 is 1399. Canon 70-200 f/2.8 is $2199.

These prices seem very much in line to me. The high grade Zuiko primes, such as the 75 f/1.8 are downright cheap.

Ergonomics on the OMD could be improved, but by and large Oly got things right. Built-in flash? Name a high end DSLR with built-in flash. And why use flash anyway when you have really fast lenses that perform well wide open like the 12mm f2, 17mm f1.8, 45mm f/1.8, not to mention the Voigtlander Noktons? The clip-on for the Oly is great because it leaves room for other more useful technology.

Focus tracking will improve as processor speeds increase. Remember that people took plenty of great sports shots with manual focus cameras.

IBIS is a proprietary Olympus technology. Don't expect to see it on Panasonics any time soon.

OMD and GH3 are weatherproofed.

Tampak Sering Water Temple, Bali - Olympus OMD with Panasonic 20mm f/1.7

tron555 wrote:

These are the things I am looking for in a m43 camera to make me interested in purchasing one:

  • There is too much talk about shutter shock one certain cameras/lenses, they need to resolve this issue. Maybe go to electronic shutter?
  • The high quality zooms are still WAY too expensive like the 12-35, 35-100 for example. These are the two lenses that interest me, but are cost prohibitive at this time.
  • Ergonomics, button layout, built in EVF/flash, etc… are not the norm yet. I need all of them. I know ergonomics and button layout are very subjective, but I have not seen one yet that meet my requirements. Panasonic is getting a lot closer than Oly and almost there.
  • Focus tracking for sports/action shots have not evolved yet. Phase detection vs Contrast detection should be along within a year, or should be I hope!
  • 5 axis IBIS on all high end cameras is not standard yet and should be.
  • Weather proofing should be standard on all high end cameras and lenses.

Hopefully, Panasonic/Olympus will come out with an all in one camera someday that meets these requirements. The GX2 or EM6 may bring things closer, but until all these issues are addressed, there are too many compromises, for me anyway. I know some will say “all cameras are compromises”, but for me, those listed are just too many for me to accept at this time.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
jimoyer
Senior MemberPosts: 1,259Gear list
Like?
Re: I’m still waiting for the right m43 camera
In reply to tron555, 10 months ago

You keep waiting, and we'll keep enjoying ours

 jimoyer's gear list:jimoyer's gear list
Fujifilm X10 Nikon D200 Panasonic Lumix DMC-G5 Olympus PEN E-PL5 Nikon D7100 +9 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
PC Wheeler
Forum ProPosts: 13,111Gear list
Like?
Re: I’m still waiting for the right m43 camera
In reply to jimoyer, 10 months ago

jimoyer wrote:

You keep waiting, and we'll keep enjoying ours

Indeed!  My GH3 with the two f/2.8 zooms never fails to satisfy me. I'd probably be equally pleased with the EM-5 based on the excellent images I've seen posted here and elsewhere, but the ergonomics (size, handling, menus, etc.) are not for me: The GH3 fits my hand perfectly and after GH1 and GH2 (both too small IMO) the GH3 menus feel very natural.

-- hide signature --

Phil

 PC Wheeler's gear list:PC Wheeler's gear list
Canon PowerShot S100 Panasonic Lumix DMC-FZ200 Canon PowerShot G15 Panasonic Lumix DMC-GH3 Olympus M.Zuiko Digital ED 9-18mm 1:4.0-5.6 +5 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
TheDoctorWhat
Regular MemberPosts: 158
Like?
Re: I’m still waiting for the right m43 camera
In reply to tron555, 10 months ago

tron555 wrote:

These are the things I am looking for in a m43 camera to make me interested in purchasing one:

  • There is too much talk about shutter shock one certain cameras/lenses, they need to resolve this issue. Maybe go to electronic shutter?
  • The high quality zooms are still WAY too expensive like the 12-35, 35-100 for example. These are the two lenses that interest me, but are cost prohibitive at this time.

Take into consideration how much these lenses cost and the physical size and weight for a DSLR system and these lenses are inexpensive for a 2.8 lens. The 35-100 does not physical get any larger than what you see because of the internal zoom. It is the same size as the Panasonic 45-200 when not zoom but skinnier around the middle.

These lenses were made with the GH-3 in mind and to optimize the video side of things for the system.

  • Ergonomics, button layout, built in EVF/flash, etc… are not the norm yet. I need all of them. I know ergonomics and button layout are very subjective, but I have not seen one yet that meet my requirements. Panasonic is getting a lot closer than Oly and almost there.

If you never held a GH-3 you have no idea how great that hand grip is. Others need to add that vertical/battery grip to make it more substantial.

  • Focus tracking for sports/action shots have not evolved yet. Phase detection vs Contrast detection should be along within a year, or should be I hope!

Its not like you can't sell gear or wait, whatever. Again, this is DSLR stuff and if you consult the magic 8 ball maybe your correct, but only the manufacture knows.

  • 5 axis IBIS on all high end cameras is not standard yet and should be.

You turn it off anyway when your on a tripod. Image stablization is a crutch.

  • Weather proofing should be standard on all high end cameras and lenses.

Your average person is not going to spend $4,000 whatever it is on the GH-3, 12-35 & 35-100. For Panasonic its their Pro level camera and DSLR's do the same type of thing. Every little extra adds to the cost especially if you have to trust it can withstand certain aspects of getting moisture. Water residence or waterproof is a big deal to do it right.

Hopefully, Panasonic/Olympus will come out with an all in one camera someday that meets these requirements. The GX2 or EM6 may bring things closer, but until all these issues are addressed, there are too many compromises, for me anyway. I know some will say “all cameras are compromises”, but for me, those listed are just too many for me to accept at this time.

Even if they can do it is all planned out. IF they peak on everything now they have no place to go and generate money over and over again. IMO its on purpose they leave certain advances out of a camera.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Alumna Gorp
Senior MemberPosts: 1,531Gear list
Like?
Re: I’m still waiting for the right m43 camera
In reply to tron555, 10 months ago

tron555 wrote:

These are the things I am looking for in a m43 camera to make me interested in purchasing one:

  • There is too much talk about shutter shock one certain cameras/lenses, they need to resolve this issue. Maybe go to electronic shutter?

There is no shutter shock issue, there is nothing to resolve.

  • The high quality zooms are still WAY too expensive like the 12-35, 35-100 for example. These are the two lenses that interest me, but are cost prohibitive at this time.

There smaller, lighter and cheaper than there DSLR equivalents

  • Ergonomics, button layout, built in EVF/flash, etc… are not the norm yet. I need all of them. I know ergonomics and button layout are very subjective, but I have not seen one yet that meet my requirements. Panasonic is getting a lot closer than Oly and almost there.

This is a personal thing, we are all different.

  • Focus tracking for sports/action shots have not evolved yet. Phase detection vs Contrast detection should be along within a year, or should be I hope!

Again, a personal thing, we don`t all need focus tracking.

  • 5 axis IBIS on all high end cameras is not standard yet and should be.

I don`t think it will ever be the standard, Panasonic prefer optical IS.

  • Weather proofing should be standard on all high end cameras and lenses.

Weather proofing, its not essential on high end camera`s or lenses.

Hopefully, Panasonic/Olympus will come out with an all in one camera someday that meets these requirements. The GX2 or EM6 may bring things closer, but until all these issues are addressed, there are too many compromises, for me anyway. I know some will say “all cameras are compromises”, but for me, those listed are just too many for me to accept at this time.

I haven`t yet seen any issues, just a reduced bank balance.

 Alumna Gorp's gear list:Alumna Gorp's gear list
Fujifilm X10 Panasonic Lumix DMC-G2 Panasonic Lumix DMC-GF2 Olympus OM-D E-M5 Panasonic Lumix G 14mm F2.5 ASPH +4 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Ben Herrmann
Forum ProPosts: 16,076Gear list
Like?
Well, guess you'll keep waiting, but in the...
In reply to tron555, 10 months ago

...meantime I'm enjoying my m43 cameras to the max.

-- hide signature --

Have a great one....
Bernd (Ben) W. Herrmann
North Carolina, USA
link

 Ben Herrmann's gear list:Ben Herrmann's gear list
Olympus C-8080 Wide Zoom Olympus SP-570 UZ Olympus E-10 Olympus E-20 Canon PowerShot G12 +25 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
drusus
Contributing MemberPosts: 596Gear list
Like?
Re: I’m still waiting for the right m43 camera
In reply to tron555, 10 months ago

You're not alone in waiting for several of thes features. What are you using in the meantime that addresses your needs better than the current m43 cameras?

Drusus

 drusus's gear list:drusus's gear list
Panasonic Lumix DMC-GF1 Panasonic Lumix G 20mm F1.7 ASPH +1 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Les Freed
Regular MemberPosts: 171Gear list
Like?
Re: I’m still waiting for the right m43 camera
In reply to PC Wheeler, 10 months ago

PC Wheeler wrote:

I'm unconvinced that you have real interest in purchasing a m4/3 cameras. Your "complaints" are not well enough considered. For example, CDAF is one of the strengths of m4/3, not a weakness. The "expensive" 12-35 & 35-100 f/2.8 lenses are priced on a par with corresponding quality lenses for other systems. Etc.

-- hide signature --

Phil

Agreed. Sounds more like this: Python "argument" sketch

=--Les

 Les Freed's gear list:Les Freed's gear list
Panasonic Lumix DMC-LX3 Olympus OM-D E-M5 Nikon D600 Olympus PEN E-PL5 Nikon AF Nikkor 35mm f/2D +15 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
jalywol
jalywol MOD
Veteran MemberPosts: 4,547Gear list
Like?
Re: I’m still waiting for the right m43 camera
In reply to tron555, 10 months ago

tron555 wrote:

These are the things I am looking for in a m43 camera to make me interested in purchasing one:

  • There is too much talk about shutter shock one certain cameras/lenses, they need to resolve this issue. Maybe go to electronic shutter?
  • The high quality zooms are still WAY too expensive like the 12-35, 35-100 for example. These are the two lenses that interest me, but are cost prohibitive at this time.
  • Ergonomics, button layout, built in EVF/flash, etc… are not the norm yet. I need all of them. I know ergonomics and button layout are very subjective, but I have not seen one yet that meet my requirements. Panasonic is getting a lot closer than Oly and almost there.
  • Focus tracking for sports/action shots have not evolved yet. Phase detection vs Contrast detection should be along within a year, or should be I hope!
  • 5 axis IBIS on all high end cameras is not standard yet and should be.
  • Weather proofing should be standard on all high end cameras and lenses.

Hopefully, Panasonic/Olympus will come out with an all in one camera someday that meets these requirements. The GX2 or EM6 may bring things closer, but until all these issues are addressed, there are too many compromises, for me anyway. I know some will say “all cameras are compromises”, but for me, those listed are just too many for me to accept at this time.

You know, you can wait forever, or buy a camera and enjoy it.  Nothing is ever going to be EXACTLY perfect; the two questions you should ask yourself are:  Can I get the results I want from this camera, and is it set up in such a way that using it helps, rather than hinders, my creative flow?

Given that no camera is going to be totally perfect, you have to decide what you can adjust to and what you can't.  THAT is going to vary from one person to another.

For me?  I've used everything from the EPL1 to GF3 to GH2 to GH3 to EPM2.  In terms of ergonomics, the cameras that bugged me in the series?  EPL1, G3, GX1, EPL5.  Cameras I ergonomically really, really liked?  G2, GH2, GF3. Cameras somewhere in the middle? EPM2, GH3, G5 (for a variety of reasons, none of which may be particularly important to anyone else).

IBIS?  Don't care one way or another.  It would be nice, but my long lenses all have OIS, and it doesn't particularly matter to me on the short ones, so not a dealbreaker either way.

I do not give a rat's rear end about zippy focus tracking as I just don't use the camera that way.  Sure, it would be great if M43 developed it, since it would make it extremely competitive with DSLRs for those who want it, but not a big deal for me.  CDAF, as implemented in current bodies, is plenty fast and very accurate, and meets my present needs...

Weather proofing...nice idea, but not sure I would bother to pay more for a camera with it if it had everything else I needed.  For some, though, it's essential, and on high end cameras it should be available.  Not necessary on anything lower priced, though.

M43 already has a pretty impressive lens selection.  Not sure why you are complaining about the price of the high end zooms; the reality is that good glass is always expensive, and always will be, no matter what the camera format.  As third party lenses start coming around, other, less expensive options will, I am sure, come out, too.

Shutter shock is a minor issue, worse on some cameras than others; I've only run into it on one body with any regularity.  Honestly, until someone invents a global shutter, no camera is going to be immune from mechanical shutter (or mirror for that matter) vibrations in just the right circumstances.

What M43 does for me is give me very good image quality in a small package.  THAT is the real advantage of this system.  I am willing to adjust to what idiosyncracies it has in order to have a competent camera that can go with me just about everywhere.  If that is not an acceptable trade off for you, then it's not the right camera system for you.

Personally, I think if you need a camera now,  you should look at something like the Pentaxes.  They have a form of IBIS; they have fast image tracking; they are not huge; they have weather sealing, and there are 40+ years of lenses that will fit the camera mount.  Or, you can buy one of the cheap M43 basic bodies out there at the moment, and get started on your lens collection for when the body of your dream comes out....or not.

Photographic moments are fleeting.  Buy something that works for you, and if something better comes along down the road, then switch.  If M43s doesn't have what you want, look elsewhere; maybe it will in future, maybe it won't, so get what you need where you can, and go take pictures with it....

-J

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
FunGun
Junior MemberPosts: 39
Like?
Re: I’m still waiting for the right m43 camera
In reply to tron555, 10 months ago

I am waiting for the right m43 camera, too, but I don't have such a long list. I just need a built in EVF but in Pen form factor (small and functional). The other day, I went out and forgot to bring an external one, I could not see a thing on the screen to frame the shots, as it was too bright. I like using flash triggers, too, but with the external EVF, I can't do so.

Don't care about the rest in the list though. Olympus and Panasonic have the right lenses, 20mm and 45mm. That is all I need.

Maybe GX2 is gonna be that one, until then epm1 is usable.

tron555 wrote:

These are the things I am looking for in a m43 camera to make me interested in purchasing one:

  • There is too much talk about shutter shock one certain cameras/lenses, they need to resolve this issue. Maybe go to electronic shutter?
  • The high quality zooms are still WAY too expensive like the 12-35, 35-100 for example. These are the two lenses that interest me, but are cost prohibitive at this time.
  • Ergonomics, button layout, built in EVF/flash, etc… are not the norm yet. I need all of them. I know ergonomics and button layout are very subjective, but I have not seen one yet that meet my requirements. Panasonic is getting a lot closer than Oly and almost there.
  • Focus tracking for sports/action shots have not evolved yet. Phase detection vs Contrast detection should be along within a year, or should be I hope!
  • 5 axis IBIS on all high end cameras is not standard yet and should be.
  • Weather proofing should be standard on all high end cameras and lenses.

Hopefully, Panasonic/Olympus will come out with an all in one camera someday that meets these requirements. The GX2 or EM6 may bring things closer, but until all these issues are addressed, there are too many compromises, for me anyway. I know some will say “all cameras are compromises”, but for me, those listed are just too many for me to accept at this time.

-- hide signature --
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
s_grins
Veteran MemberPosts: 8,127Gear list
Like?
Re: I’m still waiting for the right m43 camera
In reply to tron555, 10 months ago

tron555 wrote:

These are the things I am looking for in a m43 camera to make me interested in purchasing one:

  • There is too much talk about shutter shock one certain cameras/lenses, they need to resolve this issue. Maybe go to electronic shutter?
  • The high quality zooms are still WAY too expensive like the 12-35, 35-100 for example. These are the two lenses that interest me, but are cost prohibitive at this time.
  • Ergonomics, button layout, built in EVF/flash, etc… are not the norm yet. I need all of them. I know ergonomics and button layout are very subjective, but I have not seen one yet that meet my requirements. Panasonic is getting a lot closer than Oly and almost there.
  • Focus tracking for sports/action shots have not evolved yet. Phase detection vs Contrast detection should be along within a year, or should be I hope!
  • 5 axis IBIS on all high end cameras is not standard yet and should be.
  • Weather proofing should be standard on all high end cameras and lenses.

Hopefully, Panasonic/Olympus will come out with an all in one camera someday that meets these requirements. The GX2 or EM6 may bring things closer, but until all these issues are addressed, there are too many compromises, for me anyway. I know some will say “all cameras are compromises”, but for me, those listed are just too many for me to accept at this time.

Keep reading! The best is yet to come!

-- hide signature --

Looking for equilibrium...

 s_grins's gear list:s_grins's gear list
Panasonic Lumix DMC-GH2 Panasonic Lumix G Vario 14-45mm F3.5-5.6 ASPH OIS Panasonic Lumix G 20mm F1.7 ASPH Panasonic Lumix G Vario 45-200mm F4-5.6 OIS Sigma 30mm F2.8 EX DN +2 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
baxters
Veteran MemberPosts: 3,837Gear list
Like?
Re: I’m still waiting for the right m43 camera
In reply to tron555, 10 months ago

I want one with the IQ of a 5D, viewfinder like the NEX6, 5-axis IBIS like the EM5/EP5, focus peaking from the EP5, full flip LCD like the G3-G6, and built-in tilt flash from the EPL1. And it should carry lightly like an EPM2.

Until then, I gotta carry six cameras to get all these features, and I still don't get FF IQ. So I just stick my EPM1 in my pocket. Boo hoo,.

 baxters's gear list:baxters's gear list
Olympus Body Cap Lens 15mm F8.0
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
optic67
Forum MemberPosts: 61Gear list
Like?
Re: I’m still waiting for the right m43 camera
In reply to baxters, 10 months ago

i think its called the RX15D

 optic67's gear list:optic67's gear list
Nikon Df
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
FrankS009
Senior MemberPosts: 1,862Gear list
Like?
Re: I’m still waiting for the right m43 camera
In reply to Les Freed, 10 months ago

No it doesn't.

F.

 FrankS009's gear list:FrankS009's gear list
Panasonic Lumix G 20mm F1.7 ASPH
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
DragosJianu
Regular MemberPosts: 142Gear list
Like?
Re: I’m still waiting for the right m43 camera
In reply to tron555, 10 months ago

That mindset condemns you to a life of lament. There will never be anything perfect, let alone cheap and perfect. Don't waste your life waiting for it. And that applies to more then just photo gear.

 DragosJianu's gear list:DragosJianu's gear list
Canon EOS 5D Olympus PEN E-PM1 Canon EF 35mm f/1.4L USM Canon EF 85mm f/1.2L II USM Canon EF 100mm f/2.8 Macro USM +2 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
artec540
Forum MemberPosts: 63
Like?
Re: I’m still waiting for the right m43 camera
In reply to DragosJianu, 10 months ago

I think Tron555's original post was just winding us up.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
wayfarers
Regular MemberPosts: 211
Like?
well, in such case...
In reply to DragosJianu, 10 months ago

...the manufacturers should be the first to stop releasing new models every year, freeze their "sufficiently good" designs, only do small tweaks from time to time, and tell the consumers: go and use it, it is really sufficiently good, be happy, use it, and remember: here will be no more new models for many years to come. Would that work in our society?

DragosJianu wrote:

That mindset condemns you to a life of lament. There will never be anything perfect, let alone cheap and perfect. Don't waste your life waiting for it. And that applies to more then just photo gear.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Keyboard shortcuts:
FForum MMy threads