Dpreview Nikon Coolpix A compatative review published

Started Jun 6, 2013 | Discussions
Richard Butler
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Dpreview Nikon Coolpix A compatative review published
Jun 6, 2013

Hello all

I thought you might be interested to know that we've published our review of the Coolpix A.

Given the similarity of intent between this and the Ricoh GR, we've written the review as a comparative review - showing how the Nikon performs relative to the Ricoh.

We hope you find it useful or, at least, interesting.

Nikon Coolpix A review

Richard - dpreview.com

Lightpath48
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Re: Dpreview Nikon Coolpix A compatative review published
In reply to Richard Butler, Jun 6, 2013

Link doesn't work.

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eilivk
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Re: Dpreview Nikon Coolpix A compatative review published
In reply to Richard Butler, Jun 6, 2013

Thanks, have been waiting for this! Seeing the % in the conclusion, easy to forget what a step forward this is, large sensor in a small body. Like what is written about jpeg quality. GR hovering in the background, will there be a full review? Got two older Ricohs, very solid and good in daylight.

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Richard Butler
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Re: Dpreview Nikon Coolpix A compatative review published
In reply to eilivk, Jun 6, 2013

There certainly will be a full Ricoh review.

Much of it will be based around these same comparison images but I'll also look in a bit more depth at some of the Ricoh's specific features.

Richard - dpreview.com

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dougjgreen1
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Nikon seems to have made a nice ~$700 Camera
In reply to Richard Butler, Jun 7, 2013

Unfortunately, they priced it WAY above $700.

Just for yucks, compare the features and capabilities of this camera to the similarly priced Nikon D7100.  Or the Nikon D5100 with a good wide prime.

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tommy leong
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Re: Nikon seems to have made a nice ~$700 Camera
In reply to dougjgreen1, Jun 7, 2013

thanks for the article

AS i was reading and doing the high iso comparision,
it suddenly dawn on me, how very good the Fujifilm X100S is.
Curiously, i found my EOS 60D pales in comparision at ISO 3200...yikes.
wish i didn't read the article


Wouldn't you say, the Grand daddy of this category would be the Fujifilm X100 ?
and now X100S, would be the target for both Nikon and Ricoh.

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AngryCorgi
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Re: Nikon seems to have made a nice ~$700 Camera
In reply to dougjgreen1, Jun 7, 2013

dougjgreen1 wrote:

Unfortunately, they priced it WAY above $700.

Just for yucks, compare the features and capabilities of this camera to the similarly priced Nikon D7100.  Or the Nikon D5100 with a good wide prime.

Point me toward a "good wide prime" to mate up to the D5100 and we'll talk.  For now, nothing in the same price range exists, and definitely not at the optical performance level of the lens on the A.

-- hide signature --

-AC-

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dougjgreen1
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Here ya go: Voigtlander 20mm f3.5 Skopar
In reply to AngryCorgi, Jun 7, 2013

AngryCorgi wrote:

dougjgreen1 wrote:

Unfortunately, they priced it WAY above $700.

Just for yucks, compare the features and capabilities of this camera to the similarly priced Nikon D7100.  Or the Nikon D5100 with a good wide prime.

Point me toward a "good wide prime" to mate up to the D5100 and we'll talk.  For now, nothing in the same price range exists, and definitely not at the optical performance level of the lens on the A.

-- hide signature --

-AC-

here's a link to it:

http://www.dpreview.com/products/voigtlander/lenses/voigtlander_20_3p5_slii

If you want wider:   Samyang 14mm f2.8

http://www.dpreview.com/products/samyang/lenses/samyang_14_2p8

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AngryCorgi
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Re: Here ya go: Voigtlander 20mm f3.5 Skopar
In reply to dougjgreen1, Jun 7, 2013

dougjgreen1 wrote:

AngryCorgi wrote:

dougjgreen1 wrote:

Unfortunately, they priced it WAY above $700.

Just for yucks, compare the features and capabilities of this camera to the similarly priced Nikon D7100.  Or the Nikon D5100 with a good wide prime.

Point me toward a "good wide prime" to mate up to the D5100 and we'll talk.  For now, nothing in the same price range exists, and definitely not at the optical performance level of the lens on the A.

-- hide signature --

-AC-

here's a link to it:

http://www.dpreview.com/products/voigtlander/lenses/voigtlander_20_3p5_slii

If you want wider:   Samyang 14mm f2.8

http://www.dpreview.com/products/samyang/lenses/samyang_14_2p8

Both are MF-only to begin with.  The Voigtlander is NOT as sharp, especially on APS-C, as the A's lens.  It's particularly soft in the extreme corners on APS-C.  The Samyang is very sharp, but poorly corrected with lots of barrel distortion.  Neither are practical to MF with the tiny dim VF of the D5100.

-- hide signature --

-AC-

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dougjgreen1
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Re: Here ya go: Voigtlander 20mm f3.5 Skopar
In reply to AngryCorgi, Jun 7, 2013

AngryCorgi wrote:

dougjgreen1 wrote:

AngryCorgi wrote:

dougjgreen1 wrote:

Unfortunately, they priced it WAY above $700.

Just for yucks, compare the features and capabilities of this camera to the similarly priced Nikon D7100.  Or the Nikon D5100 with a good wide prime.

Point me toward a "good wide prime" to mate up to the D5100 and we'll talk.  For now, nothing in the same price range exists, and definitely not at the optical performance level of the lens on the A.

-- hide signature --

-AC-

here's a link to it:

http://www.dpreview.com/products/voigtlander/lenses/voigtlander_20_3p5_slii

If you want wider:   Samyang 14mm f2.8

http://www.dpreview.com/products/samyang/lenses/samyang_14_2p8

Both are MF-only to begin with.  The Voigtlander is NOT as sharp, especially on APS-C, as the A's lens.  It's particularly soft in the extreme corners on APS-C.  The Samyang is very sharp, but poorly corrected with lots of barrel distortion.  Neither are practical to MF with the tiny dim VF of the D5100.

-- hide signature --

-AC-

I think you'd be hard pressed to show that the lens on the Nikon A is better than the Voigtlander.

And as for Manual Focus - a 20mm has such wide depth of field that it's a non-issue.

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photo perzon
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Ricoh's colors are messed up. I got Nikon at Best Buy for $899.
In reply to Richard Butler, Jun 7, 2013

Specially in the Ricoh forum, there are about 100 opinions on the colors vs B/W on the Ricoh.  The consensus is that the Ricoh has sublime B/W, but that its blues, greens and (before) the reds have issues.

The reds appear to have been fixed easily in RAW with LR.  However still today the greens and blues have issues.

And these issues are requiring extensive ACR and a lot of work.  Many Ricoh forum posters agree (also Ming) that for color get the A and for B/W the Ricoh.  Many Ricoh posters post pictures with the greens massaged this way and that, asking and commenting what others think.  The post several versions of their greens.

Now personally I think that there is a lot of Ricoh love out there and Ricoh followers will do anything to convince themselves that Ricoh is great...many of them are into B/W pictures!

In dpreview galleries color pictures are the norm.

Even in the Ricoh forum they acknowledge that Nikon gets the colors dead on.

I got my A at Best Buy for $899 by asking the salesman to ask his manager to match the Feb 19 sale Best Buy had for the Nikon A then.  In Asia Nikon is almost the same price as the Ricoh now.

And don't forget, with the Nikon or the Ricoh you won't be able to buy 10 lenses and thus save a lot of money.

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photo perzon
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Ray Sachs wrote:
In reply to photo perzon, Jun 7, 2013

And Ray wrote:

"The bigger deal is that, even with the use of the proper updated ACR color profiles, the Ricoh doesn’t handle colors as well as the Nikon IMHO, but creates files that are better than the Nikon for B&W conversions. Ming Thein raised this in his review and I initially doubted it and figured a lot of it was down to the color profile being updated. But the more I work with both cameras, the more I think he was on to something. The Nikon colors are just dead on. The Ricoh colors don’t have anything like the red issues that they had without the ACR profile, but the blues and greens still seem off to me. On some shots I can get them right with a fairly simple WB adjustment, but sometimes I’m left scratching my head and on some back to back landscapes, just couldn’t come close to getting the Ricoh raw files to my liking."

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AngryCorgi
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Re: Here ya go: Voigtlander 20mm f3.5 Skopar
In reply to dougjgreen1, Jun 7, 2013

dougjgreen1 wrote:

AngryCorgi wrote:

dougjgreen1 wrote:

AngryCorgi wrote:

dougjgreen1 wrote:

Unfortunately, they priced it WAY above $700.

Just for yucks, compare the features and capabilities of this camera to the similarly priced Nikon D7100.  Or the Nikon D5100 with a good wide prime.

Point me toward a "good wide prime" to mate up to the D5100 and we'll talk.  For now, nothing in the same price range exists, and definitely not at the optical performance level of the lens on the A.

-- hide signature --

-AC-

here's a link to it:

http://www.dpreview.com/products/voigtlander/lenses/voigtlander_20_3p5_slii

If you want wider:   Samyang 14mm f2.8

http://www.dpreview.com/products/samyang/lenses/samyang_14_2p8

Both are MF-only to begin with.  The Voigtlander is NOT as sharp, especially on APS-C, as the A's lens.  It's particularly soft in the extreme corners on APS-C.  The Samyang is very sharp, but poorly corrected with lots of barrel distortion.  Neither are practical to MF with the tiny dim VF of the D5100.

-- hide signature --

-AC-

I think you'd be hard pressed to show that the lens on the Nikon A is better than the Voigtlander.

And as for Manual Focus - a 20mm has such wide depth of field that it's a non-issue.

Hard pressed??  Not really.

http://slrlensreview.com/web/reviews/voigtlander/voigtlander-wide-angle/705-voigtlander-color-skopar-asph-20mm-f35-slii?showall=&start=2#canon-xti-10mp

The lens struggled to be particularly sharp on a 10MP sensor.  It needs to be stopped down to f/8.  It would do even worse on a 16MP sensor.  The A lens is extremely sharp wide-open.  Pretty cut-and-dry situation.  The voigtlander simply isn't in the same class as the A's lens.

-- hide signature --

-AC-

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dougjgreen1
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You quoted that review out of context
In reply to AngryCorgi, Jun 7, 2013

AngryCorgi wrote:

http://slrlensreview.com/web/reviews/voigtlander/voigtlander-wide-angle/705-voigtlander-color-skopar-asph-20mm-f35-slii?showall=&start=2#canon-xti-10mp

The lens struggled to be particularly sharp on a 10MP sensor.  It needs to be stopped down to f/8.  It would do even worse on a 16MP sensor.  The A lens is extremely sharp wide-open.  Pretty cut-and-dry situation.  The voigtlander simply isn't in the same class as the A's lens.

-- hide signature --

-AC-

The poor performance you reference occurred outside the DX crop area on Full Frame images,  The same report you quoted actually stated that on an APS-C sensor, it was good across the frame at f5.6, which is only stopped down 1-1/3 stops - rather typical actually.

And from what I've heard, the Nikon A's lens is nothing special in the corners at f2.8 or f4 either.

See here for reference:

"Coolpix A edge resolution very low at F2.8 and F4?

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2417565,00.asp "

So maybe you'd like to try again, since your last "proof" seems to have been a whiff.

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ovatab
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Re: Dpreview Nikon Coolpix A compatative review published
In reply to Richard Butler, Jun 7, 2013

Thank you for the review, looking forward for the Ricoh story.

Typo: Nikon Coolpix A - F3.2 and ISO 1400 are not correct for the Winery photo at http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikon-coolpix-a/7

They are F8, ISO 100 from the same pic in the gallery.
BTW why did you set F8 in a dark coffee shop?

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AngryCorgi
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Re: You quoted that review out of context
In reply to dougjgreen1, Jun 7, 2013

dougjgreen1 wrote:

AngryCorgi wrote:

http://slrlensreview.com/web/reviews/voigtlander/voigtlander-wide-angle/705-voigtlander-color-skopar-asph-20mm-f35-slii?showall=&start=2#canon-xti-10mp

The lens struggled to be particularly sharp on a 10MP sensor.  It needs to be stopped down to f/8.  It would do even worse on a 16MP sensor.  The A lens is extremely sharp wide-open.  Pretty cut-and-dry situation.  The voigtlander simply isn't in the same class as the A's lens.

-- hide signature --

-AC-

The poor performance you reference occurred outside the DX crop area on Full Frame images,  The same report you quoted actually stated that on an APS-C sensor, it was good across the frame at f5.6, which is only stopped down 1-1/3 stops - rather typical actually.

And from what I've heard, the Nikon A's lens is nothing special in the corners at f2.8 or f4 either.

See here for reference:

"Coolpix A edge resolution very low at F2.8 and F4?

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2417565,00.asp "

So maybe you'd like to try again, since your last "proof" seems to have been a whiff.

"Good", no, it stated "fairly decent results" a f/5.6.  Look at the crop results and the verbage.

"While not particularly sharp at f/3.5, the images taken with the APS-C body did produce higher MTF50 numbers then on either of the full frame bodies used in the tests."

As you can see, stopping it down on a 10MP XTi barely improves it.  So, no, it is not ideal for a crop 16MP sensor where it would perform even more poorly than it did in their testing.  They warned about it in the review.  I'll trust a proper review site over "pcmag" anyday, and DPR and DXOmark both show very very good corner performance from the coolpix at f/4.

-- hide signature --

-AC-

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Ray Sachs
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Re: Ray Sachs wrote:
In reply to photo perzon, Jun 7, 2013

photo perzon wrote:

And Ray wrote:

"The bigger deal is that, even with the use of the proper updated ACR color profiles, the Ricoh doesn’t handle colors as well as the Nikon IMHO, but creates files that are better than the Nikon for B&W conversions. Ming Thein raised this in his review and I initially doubted it and figured a lot of it was down to the color profile being updated. But the more I work with both cameras, the more I think he was on to something. The Nikon colors are just dead on. The Ricoh colors don’t have anything like the red issues that they had without the ACR profile, but the blues and greens still seem off to me. On some shots I can get them right with a fairly simple WB adjustment, but sometimes I’m left scratching my head and on some back to back landscapes, just couldn’t come close to getting the Ricoh raw files to my liking."

And if you'd kept reading in that thread you'd see I concluded it was mostly an exposure issue, not a color issue, because my greens in less tricky light, including brighter and darker came out just fine. And bumping the exposure on those specific images was a large part of the fix. Don't cherry pick the quotes you like and leave out the ones you don't like.

-Ray
--------------------------------------
http://www.flickr.com/photos/20889767@N05/

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photo perzon
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Re: Ray Sachs wrote:
In reply to Ray Sachs, Jun 7, 2013

Ray Sachs wrote:

photo perzon wrote:

And Ray wrote:

"The bigger deal is that, even with the use of the proper updated ACR color profiles, the Ricoh doesn’t handle colors as well as the Nikon IMHO, but creates files that are better than the Nikon for B&W conversions. Ming Thein raised this in his review and I initially doubted it and figured a lot of it was down to the color profile being updated. But the more I work with both cameras, the more I think he was on to something. The Nikon colors are just dead on. The Ricoh colors don’t have anything like the red issues that they had without the ACR profile, but the blues and greens still seem off to me. On some shots I can get them right with a fairly simple WB adjustment, but sometimes I’m left scratching my head and on some back to back landscapes, just couldn’t come close to getting the Ricoh raw files to my liking."

And if you'd kept reading in that thread you'd see I concluded it was mostly an exposure issue, not a color issue, because my greens in less tricky light, including brighter and darker came out just fine. And bumping the exposure on those specific images was a large part of the fix. Don't cherry pick the quotes you like and leave out the ones you don't like.

-Ray
--------------------------------------
http://www.flickr.com/photos/20889767@N05/

Oh OK.  Still an issue for the GR no?

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Ray Sachs
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Re: Ray Sachs wrote:
In reply to photo perzon, Jun 7, 2013

photo perzon wrote:

Ray Sachs wrote:

photo perzon wrote:

And Ray wrote:

"The bigger deal is that, even with the use of the proper updated ACR color profiles, the Ricoh doesn’t handle colors as well as the Nikon IMHO, but creates files that are better than the Nikon for B&W conversions. Ming Thein raised this in his review and I initially doubted it and figured a lot of it was down to the color profile being updated. But the more I work with both cameras, the more I think he was on to something. The Nikon colors are just dead on. The Ricoh colors don’t have anything like the red issues that they had without the ACR profile, but the blues and greens still seem off to me. On some shots I can get them right with a fairly simple WB adjustment, but sometimes I’m left scratching my head and on some back to back landscapes, just couldn’t come close to getting the Ricoh raw files to my liking."

And if you'd kept reading in that thread you'd see I concluded it was mostly an exposure issue, not a color issue, because my greens in less tricky light, including brighter and darker came out just fine. And bumping the exposure on those specific images was a large part of the fix. Don't cherry pick the quotes you like and leave out the ones you don't like.

-Ray
--------------------------------------
http://www.flickr.com/photos/20889767@N05/

Oh OK.  Still an issue for the GR no?

Probably just a matter of spending a bit more time with it and getting used to the metering. One of the few objective "wins"for the Nikon is its metering, which most reviewers agree is better than most. The Ricoh metering is fine, but not as good. And like most cameras, is just a matter of getting a bit if experience with it under your belt. Also, for that shoot I was using both cameras and was trying to match exposure for each shot - probably not the best approach! Bottom line - I wouldn't hesitate to buy the Ricoh because of its colors or metering, although I consider the metering a plus for the Nikon.

If you prefer one if these cameras in your gut, there are plenty of ways to rationalize either. So just pick the one you like more. Or if the cost is an issue, get the Ricoh or wait for the Nikon's price to come down. Or just buy some RIKON kitchen ware and split the difference.

-Ray
--------------------------------------
http://www.flickr.com/photos/20889767@N05/

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walkaround
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Re: Nikon seems to have made a nice ~$700 Camera
In reply to dougjgreen1, Jun 7, 2013

dougjgreen1 wrote:

Unfortunately, they priced it WAY above $700.

Just for yucks, compare the features and capabilities of this camera to the similarly priced Nikon D7100.  Or the Nikon D5100 with a good wide prime.

Man, you are clueless...

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