micro 4/3s , Owls IF

Started Jun 5, 2013 | Photos
Trevor Carpenter
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micro 4/3s , Owls IF
Jun 5, 2013

Not wild birds but still a good challenge for the G5 and 100-300 especially as we can't do BIFs with m4/3s.  Siberian Eagle Owl.

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grumpyolderman
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Re: micro 4/3s , Owls IF
In reply to Trevor Carpenter, Jun 5, 2013

Great shots Trevor, but it was not a m43, you have hidden the exif, LOL how did you do it?

JL

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19andrew47
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Re: micro 4/3s , Owls IF
In reply to Trevor Carpenter, Jun 5, 2013

Nicely timed captures Trevor.  As uploaded here, they could be sharper and more detailed.  I don't know what the limiting factor is here.  If I had taken these I would be thrilled to have captured them, but would still have the same question if that is all the detail there is.

Andrew

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eques
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Re: micro 4/3s , Owls IF
In reply to 19andrew47, Jun 6, 2013

19andrew47 wrote:

Nicely timed captures Trevor.

Yes, excellent capture!

As uploaded here, they could be sharper and more detailed.  I don't know what the limiting factor is here.  If I had taken these I would be thrilled to have captured them, but would still have the same question if that is all the detail there is.

Indeed - so the first idea is, mFT can't do BIF - and you suggested it yourself.

Peter.

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Fleabag
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Re: micro 4/3s , Owls IF
In reply to Trevor Carpenter, Jun 6, 2013

Micro 4/3's doing birds in flight is like saying a '64 bug is a race car. Yes it can race, but...

I love my EM-5 but a BIF camera it is not.

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Grzzl
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To be honest
In reply to Trevor Carpenter, Jun 6, 2013

I could only do BIF with my D300 with a prime tele. With the lower end zooms it was still too slow.

That said. In the 70's there was no AF and yet people made BIF pics (Not me BTW)

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Martin.au
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Re: micro 4/3s , Owls IF
In reply to Fleabag, Jun 6, 2013

Fleabag wrote:

Micro 4/3's doing birds in flight is like saying a '64 bug is a race car. Yes it can race, but...

I love my EM-5 but a BIF camera it is not.

Suit yourself.

Great pics Trevor.

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jimoyer
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Re: micro 4/3s , Owls IF
In reply to Martin.au, Jun 6, 2013

Seems to me that there are some people driving those VW's that are showing what a "giant killer" they can be.  

Great images!

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Trevor Carpenter
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Re: micro 4/3s , Owls IF
In reply to Fleabag, Jun 6, 2013

Fleabag wrote:

Micro 4/3's doing birds in flight is like saying a '64 bug is a race car. Yes it can race, but...

I love my EM-5 but a BIF camera it is not.

But if it is what you have and is what you can afford it does OK pro rata for the investment and IMO does as well as a DSLR for the same amount of money.  I don't have the money or inclination to go formula 1 so I'll do a bit of karting.

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Fleabag
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Re: micro 4/3s , Owls IF
In reply to Trevor Carpenter, Jun 6, 2013

Of course you do the best you can with what you have, and that's great. Not saying that you don't have a nice shot there, and I'm not trying to criticize you. All I am really saying is that the EM-5 is not in the same league as even the E-5 when it comes to doing BIF for so many reasons. Yes people can take some nice BIF shots with the EM5 but doing it on a regular basis is another story. I see lot's of posts saying the EM-5 can do this and can do that.. but there are some severe limitations.

Here is an example. The golden hour where the light is beautiful with your subject pushing 300mm?  Guess what, that f6.7 lens will be lucky to even focus in that light. (I've tried it), couple that with the lack of any teleconverter, mirror blackout issues, focus box issues, stability due to lack of mass and it all adds up to a terrible BIF system.

Not saying people can't pull a few out, but giant killer it's not.

Trevor Carpenter wrote:

Fleabag wrote:

Micro 4/3's doing birds in flight is like saying a '64 bug is a race car. Yes it can race, but...

I love my EM-5 but a BIF camera it is not.

But if it is what you have and is what you can afford it does OK pro rata for the investment and IMO does as well as a DSLR for the same amount of money.  I don't have the money or inclination to go formula 1 so I'll do a bit of karting.

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Fleabag
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Re: To be honest
In reply to Grzzl, Jun 6, 2013

I've done some BIF with a manual focus lens, an Olympus 350mmf2.8. Even bigger than the 300mmf2.8 we currently have. It's not easy and you miss a lot of shots. Takes a lot of practice.

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Fleabag
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Re: micro 4/3s , Owls IF
In reply to Martin.au, Jun 6, 2013

Your second shot is a good example of what I am talking about. Yes you have a BIF but in my opinion there is too much noise in the image. Example is under the wing. Just to get 1/800 which for a lot of birds is too slow, you had to crank the ISO up to 1250. It's because there is not suitable lens for birding unless all of your shots are at close range. Can't really do that in the wild. A 300mm lens at 6.8 will have difficulty focusing when the light is low, I've tried it and had to send the lens back. It just would not work. Not so say you can't pull out some shots, but as a system the EM-5 falls way short.

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Martin.au
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Re: micro 4/3s , Owls IF
In reply to Fleabag, Jun 6, 2013

Fleabag wrote:

Your second shot is a good example of what I am talking about. Yes you have a BIF but in my opinion there is too much noise in the image. Example is under the wing. Just to get 1/800 which for a lot of birds is too slow, you had to crank the ISO up to 1250. It's because there is not suitable lens for birding unless all of your shots are at close range. Can't really do that in the wild. A 300mm lens at 6.8 will have difficulty focusing when the light is low, I've tried it and had to send the lens back. It just would not work. Not so say you can't pull out some shots, but as a system the EM-5 falls way short.

Pffft.

So now it's not the camera, it's the lack of 300mm f2.8's or similar lenses. Move those goalposts.

As I would rarely carry a 300mm f2.8, I fail to see its benefit to me. I certainly wouldn't be carrying one while meandering around town, so you're "solution" would result in no Macaw photos.

There's no issues focussing the 75-300 in low light. It will happily focus very quickly down to light below usable level. (eg, sunset).

Now, If you're a dedicated birder, then I would not recommend the EM5. There are better options. If you are a dedicated birder though, then that's not an excuse to be a snob about it. Not everyone is interested in spending upwards of $10k on a fun hobby, and the big long glass that you think birding requires is not actually very convenient a lot of the time. You work to the limitations of your equipment. In the case of the 75-300, it's a bright light lens.

PS. If you like I could post tiny size photos instead. Noise all gone.

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Martin.au
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Re: micro 4/3s , Owls IF
In reply to Fleabag, Jun 6, 2013

On another note. You have the 300 f2.8 and, I believe, and EM5. How effectively does it focus on the EM5? Similar to the 12-60?

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Fleabag
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Re: micro 4/3s , Owls IF
In reply to Martin.au, Jun 6, 2013

Mjankor wrote:

Fleabag wrote:

Your second shot is a good example of what I am talking about. Yes you have a BIF but in my opinion there is too much noise in the image. Example is under the wing. Just to get 1/800 which for a lot of birds is too slow, you had to crank the ISO up to 1250. It's because there is not suitable lens for birding unless all of your shots are at close range. Can't really do that in the wild. A 300mm lens at 6.8 will have difficulty focusing when the light is low, I've tried it and had to send the lens back. It just would not work. Not so say you can't pull out some shots, but as a system the EM-5 falls way short.

Pffft.

So now it's not the camera, it's the lack of 300mm f2.8's or similar lenses. Move those goalposts.

As I would rarely carry a 300mm f2.8, I fail to see its benefit to me. I certainly wouldn't be carrying one while meandering around town, so you're "solution" would result in no Macaw photos.

There's no issues focussing the 75-300 in low light. It will happily focus very quickly down to light below usable level. (eg, sunset).

Now, If you're a dedicated birder, then I would not recommend the EM5. There are better options. If you are a dedicated birder though, then that's not an excuse to be a snob about it. Not everyone is interested in spending upwards of $10k on a fun hobby, and the big long glass that you think birding requires is not actually very convenient a lot of the time. You work to the limitations of your equipment. In the case of the 75-300, it's a bright light lens.

PS. If you like I could post tiny size photos instead. Noise all gone.

Not trying to be a snob, didn't think my post would be popular. I guess my response is an extension of the many posts I have seen saying the EM-5 and micro 4/3's in general can do BIF.  Well it can and it can't. Depends. If you want general shots, then sure... Yes I do have the EM-5 and E-5 w/  300f2.8 and IMO the EM5 sucks for birding. I do hope however that Olympus will release something that let's me extend the life of my lens.

As far as specifics the EM-5 with it's mirror black out issues makes it very difficult to keep up with fast flying birds. Try a falcon or a fast moving duck against a background. The issue with the focus box is that it is too big to focus on an eye for example with out have to mess around with the camera. It's also too small IMO and it's not easy keeping it still vs. something larger. There is more.

Regarding the 75-300, I bought two of them, had to send both back because they would not meet my needs. Too slow. Both of them were taken out to the field and both at 300 mm in lower light could not reliably obtain focus on moving objects (birds). Not to say it couldn't lock, but way way too many lost shots. Now if I pulled the lens back to around 150mm then things improved, but my subjects were too far for 150mm.

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Fleabag
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Re: micro 4/3s , Owls IF
In reply to Martin.au, Jun 6, 2013

Mjankor wrote:

On another note. You have the 300 f2.8 and, I believe, and EM5. How effectively does it focus on the EM5? Similar to the 12-60?

It sucks on the 300mm. Too slow to focus for anything other that something standing still, even then under critical review too many shots were OOF. The killer however was it rattlesnaked the lens so bad that I thought it would break. Disappointing, I wanted to use the camera for birding. Hard even to get the camera dirty, it's so pretty. The E-5 is just build so much better for field conditions, but even with the E-5 I don't like taking it over ISO400 due to noise.

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Trevor Carpenter
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Re: micro 4/3s , Owls IF
In reply to Martin.au, Jun 6, 2013

Mjankor wrote:

So now it's not the camera, it's the lack of 300mm f2.8's or similar lenses. Move those goalposts.

and that's how I see where the discussion should be.  That is M4/3s limitation isn't cameras, evfs, tracking capability but glass.  That doesn't nean that the other factors aren't important they are and the best camera with the best OVF and the best tracking capability coupled with the best glass will always be better.  There are workarounds for m4/3s users on some criteria but not on glass uinless you use  nzmacros option and go manual..

The biggest step forward for m4/s and action will be available glass.  I don't know if it is even possible at a sensible size and price but if Oly and Panny can offer zooms to 300 for £400, what can they give me for a £1K

Incidentally, like Mjankor,  I have never doubted that the best solution for action is FF and good glass but the point I have tried to push on this forum is that micro 4/3s is just as good as low to medium DSLRs.  I stil,. have my E620 and I wouldn't consider my previous combination of E620 and 70-300 when shooting birds.  The G5 and 100-300 wipes the floor with it even with its EVF.

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Fleabag
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Re: micro 4/3s , Owls IF
In reply to Trevor Carpenter, Jun 6, 2013

You should see me in our Digital Photography Forum at work. I work for a high tech company in the Silicon valley and it's full of engineers with their C&N cameras. Actually Fuji has crept in with it's larger sensor ( I bet they find this post)   Out of hundreds on the forum, there is about 3 who use the EM-5. See, you give an engineer spec sheets of three cameras the check marks will always point to the bigger sensor, better ISO, etc etc.

Trevor Carpenter wrote:

Mjankor wrote:

So now it's not the camera, it's the lack of 300mm f2.8's or similar lenses. Move those goalposts.

and that's how I see where the discussion should be.  That is M4/3s limitation isn't cameras, evfs, tracking capability but glass.  That doesn't nean that the other factors aren't important they are and the best camera with the best OVF and the best tracking capability coupled with the best glass will always be better.  There are workarounds for m4/3s users on some criteria but not on glass uinless you use  nzmacros option and go manual..

The biggest step forward for m4/s and action will be available glass.  I don't know if it is even possible at a sensible size and price but if Oly and Panny can offer zooms to 300 for £400, what can they give me for a £1K

Incidentally, like Mjankor,  I have never doubted that the best solution for action is FF and good glass but the point I have tried to push on this forum is that micro 4/3s is just as good as low to medium DSLRs.  I stil,. have my E620 and I wouldn't consider my previous combination of E620 and 70-300 when shooting birds.  The G5 and 100-300 wipes the floor with it even with its EVF.

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Kim Letkeman
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Re: micro 4/3s , Owls IF
In reply to Trevor Carpenter, Jun 6, 2013

Trevor Carpenter wrote:

Fleabag wrote:

Micro 4/3's doing birds in flight is like saying a '64 bug is a race car. Yes it can race, but...

I love my EM-5 but a BIF camera it is not.

But if it is what you have and is what you can afford it does OK pro rata for the investment and IMO does as well as a DSLR for the same amount of money.  I don't have the money or inclination to go formula 1 so I'll do a bit of karting.

A modern entry dSLR like the D5100 and the 70-300VR are going to be far quicker to track the bird and will cost the same or less new ... so it is quite unlikely that a mirrorless camera is going to outdo a modern entry dSLR with BIF ...

Which is not to say that good shots cannot be done. these are ok, but the shutter is too low and the AF was barely there on the first and totally missed on the second. I suspect that tracking AF and manual mode with faster shutter and perhaps higher ISO might do a better job ... but the dSLR can do that too, and better ...

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Kim Letkeman
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Re: micro 4/3s , Owls IF
In reply to Fleabag, Jun 6, 2013

Fleabag wrote:

Here is an example. The golden hour where the light is beautiful with your subject pushing 300mm?  Guess what, that f6.7 lens

The Panny version (which he no doubt has since he shoots the G5) is f/5.6 ... I agree that the Oly lens is hopeless ... but the Panny lens is a bit better ... still, it is the contrast detect AF that makes it hopeless as light intensity drops ...

Not saying people can't pull a few out, but giant killer it's not.

And no one has said it is. As Trevor suggested ... it is the equivalent of going out go-karting ... a little fun and nothing too serious ...

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