Whats causing the grainy, dirty look to my photos after using lightroom? Ronkinon lens just arrived

Started Jun 4, 2013 | Discussions
Nano princess
Regular MemberPosts: 288
Like?
Whats causing the grainy, dirty look to my photos after using lightroom? Ronkinon lens just arrived
Jun 4, 2013

Two things okay several things.

Why do my photos always have this grainy dirty .  Am I actually editing jpeg? in Lightroom I always see this with my photos

Two.. what constitutes good bokeh.  I got the 85mm 1.4 and ran outside and started snapping.  I know odd things.  But I just started snapping anyways.  I never ever got the circle things with my 35 1.8

What do you all think? Not critique my photo but the circle things I love!!! The dark grainy, dirty look what cause that in photos.  I never see it on great photographers.  But I have seen it a lot with newbie photographers as myself.  So what am I doing wrong.

zakkix
Regular MemberPosts: 375
Like?
Re: Whats causing the grainy, dirty look to my photos after using lightroom?
In reply to Nano princess, Jun 4, 2013

Nano princess wrote:

Two things okay several things.

Why do my photos always have this grainy dirty .  Am I actually editing jpeg? in Lightroom I always see this with my photos

Two.. what constitutes good bokeh.  I got the 85mm 1.4 and ran outside and started snapping.  I know odd things.  But I just started snapping anyways.  I never ever got the circle things with my 35 1.8

What do you all think? Not critique my photo but the circle things I love!!! The dark grainy, dirty look what cause that in photos.  I never see it on great photographers.  But I have seen it a lot with newbie photographers as myself.  So what am I doing wrong.

If you have purchased a 85mm 1.4 and need to know the above then really read a photography book, online courses, sign up for photography classes.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Nano princess
Regular MemberPosts: 288
Like?
Re: Whats causing the grainy, dirty look to my photos after using lightroom?
In reply to zakkix, Jun 4, 2013

zakkix wrote:

Nano princess wrote:

Two things okay several things.

Why do my photos always have this grainy dirty .  Am I actually editing jpeg? in Lightroom I always see this with my photos

Two.. what constitutes good bokeh.  I got the 85mm 1.4 and ran outside and started snapping.  I know odd things.  But I just started snapping anyways.  I never ever got the circle things with my 35 1.8

What do you all think? Not critique my photo but the circle things I love!!! The dark grainy, dirty look what cause that in photos.  I never see it on great photographers.  But I have seen it a lot with newbie photographers as myself.  So what am I doing wrong.

If you have purchased a 85mm 1.4 and need to know the above then really read a photography book, online courses, sign up for photography classes.

Are you serious??? that's your helpful answer.  Okay I will surely wait for others to chime in.  I love the circle bokeh? But some hate it I have found.  Soooooooooo just want to know what you all thought of it?   are you saying that's a terrible thing to have? or good? the dirty grimy look I see maybe due to lowering the shadows or raising the something.

That was your helpful answer.  Why are you here???

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Mark K W
Senior MemberPosts: 1,139
Like?
Re: Whats causing the grainy, dirty look to my photos after using lightroom?
In reply to Nano princess, Jun 4, 2013

Nano princess wrote:

Two things okay several things.

Why do my photos always have this grainy dirty .  Am I actually editing jpeg? in Lightroom I always see this with my photos

Two.. what constitutes good bokeh.  I got the 85mm 1.4 and ran outside and started snapping.  I know odd things.  But I just started snapping anyways.  I never ever got the circle things with my 35 1.8

What do you all think? Not critique my photo but the circle things I love!!! The dark grainy, dirty look what cause that in photos.  I never see it on great photographers.  But I have seen it a lot with newbie photographers as myself.  So what am I doing wrong.

What LR adjustments are you doing? I presume you are starting with a RAW....

In LR's Develop Module, the ones to check for affecting graininess are Sharpening (not too much), Noise (apply enough to smooth the image; you are shooting at high speeds at ISO100, so I presume your images are in real bright light and so there is not much noise coming from the sensor to start off with), Contrast (again apply just enough), and then Clarity (be very very careful with that and use very sparingly unless you want a heavily processed effect). There is also a Grain effect but I assume you are not applying this.

Also what Export settings do you have for the JPEGs? Are you Sharpenng there again?

-- hide signature --
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Ron Poelman
Veteran MemberPosts: 4,337Gear list
Like?
All the shots are hovering on the edge of under-exposed..
In reply to Nano princess, Jun 4, 2013

Possibly your monitor is tuned too bright ?
Why not re-run a couple at 1/3 to 1/2 a stop brighter and see what you think ?
The other question is what was the light like on the day ?
From here it looks like overcast grey.

 Ron Poelman's gear list:Ron Poelman's gear list
Sony Cyber-shot DSC-H2 Sony Cyber-shot DSC-R1 Sony SLT-A57 Sony Alpha 7R
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Hugo600si
Contributing MemberPosts: 738Gear list
Like?
Re: Whats causing the grainy, dirty look to my photos after using lightroom?
In reply to Nano princess, Jun 4, 2013

Are you using a camera profile? I'm frequently using the standard one from http://www.piraccini.net/2011/02/profili-colore-sony-a900-per-adobe-lr.html on my raw files when I'm lazy. If not lazy I play with the settings (top down in development view)

What alterations do you do on your raw files in lightroom developer?

My simple flow is (using a sample photo, values will differ per shot):

1. set lens profile if required

2. Crop to my liking

3. Adjust exposure to my liking

4. up contrast a little if needed (low values)

5. increase whites and or highlights (+26 in my playing sample) looking at the histogram to not loose data or burn out the photo

6. reduce blacks same thing (-17 in my sample, these values are normally a bit lower)

starting to get more color

7. increase vibrance (+5 to +12)

8. increase saturation (+5 to +10)

I like velvia (on portraits I am a lot softer as I used to love portra 160 from Kodak)

9. Sharpening, add a bit (+37 in my sample, do not over do this!)

10. luminance noise reduction, 24, watch your detail, do not over do this, could be far less

11. color noise in higher iso images, not in my test

That's about it for a quick touch up, there are probably good guides on how to do this... but I haven't gone through the trouble of reading them Lot is on personal taste, most important, do not overdo it!

Hope this helps a bit

Some of the experts here can say where I'm going horribly wrong

Edit, forgot to add, for my 24/1.8 on the nex I sometimes have to remove fringing too.

-- hide signature --

Shamelessly promoting my favourite painters website (my wife's ) and my handiwork:
http://EdithsArt.com and http://EditshArt.nl (Dutch)

 Hugo600si's gear list:Hugo600si's gear list
Sony Alpha DSLR-A700 Sony Alpha NEX-7 Sony SLT-A77 Sony DT 16-80mm F3.5-4.5 ZA Carl Zeiss Vario-Sonnar T* Sony 70-400mm F4-5.6 G SSM +11 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Nano princess
Regular MemberPosts: 288
Like?
Re: All the shots are hovering on the edge of under-exposed..
In reply to Ron Poelman, Jun 4, 2013

Ron Poelman wrote:

Possibly your monitor is tuned too bright ?
Why not re-run a couple at 1/3 to 1/2 a stop brighter and see what you think ?
The other question is what was the light like on the day ?
From here it looks like overcast grey.

Darn... thank you.. for the help.  Underexposed.  Ty for the help

it was sunny but I was under a pergola so shaded.  Darn I was so hoping you all were going to say great lens... LOL

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Nano princess
Regular MemberPosts: 288
Like?
Re: Whats causing the grainy, dirty look to my photos after using lightroom?
In reply to Hugo600si, Jun 4, 2013

Hugo600si wrote:

Are you using a camera profile? I'm frequently using the standard one from http://www.piraccini.net/2011/02/profili-colore-sony-a900-per-adobe-lr.html on my raw files when I'm lazy. If not lazy I play with the settings (top down in development view)

What alterations do you do on your raw files in lightroom developer?

My simple flow is (using a sample photo, values will differ per shot):

1. set lens profile if required

2. Crop to my liking

3. Adjust exposure to my liking

4. up contrast a little if needed (low values)

5. increase whites and or highlights (+26 in my playing sample) looking at the histogram to not loose data or burn out the photo

6. reduce blacks same thing (-17 in my sample, these values are normally a bit lower)

starting to get more color

7. increase vibrance (+5 to +12)

8. increase saturation (+5 to +10)

I like velvia (on portraits I am a lot softer as I used to love portra 160 from Kodak)

9. Sharpening, add a bit (+37 in my sample, do not over do this!)

10. luminance noise reduction, 24, watch your detail, do not over do this, could be far less

11. color noise in higher iso images, not in my test

That's about it for a quick touch up, there are probably good guides on how to do this... but I haven't gone through the trouble of reading them Lot is on personal taste, most important, do not overdo it!

Hope this helps a bit

Some of the experts here can say where I'm going horribly wrong

Edit, forgot to add, for my 24/1.8 on the nex I sometimes have to remove fringing too.

-- hide signature --

Shamelessly promoting my favourite painters website (my wife's ) and my handiwork:
http://EdithsArt.com and http://EditshArt.nl (Dutch)

thank you so much for the details in how you edit some of your photos through lightroom.  I so appreciated that info.

Blessings

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Nano princess
Regular MemberPosts: 288
Like?
Re: Whats causing the grainy, dirty look to my photos after using lightroom?
In reply to Mark K W, Jun 4, 2013

Mark K W wrote:

Nano princess wrote:

Two things okay several things.

Why do my photos always have this grainy dirty .  Am I actually editing jpeg? in Lightroom I always see this with my photos

Two.. what constitutes good bokeh.  I got the 85mm 1.4 and ran outside and started snapping.  I know odd things.  But I just started snapping anyways.  I never ever got the circle things with my 35 1.8

What do you all think? Not critique my photo but the circle things I love!!! The dark grainy, dirty look what cause that in photos.  I never see it on great photographers.  But I have seen it a lot with newbie photographers as myself.  So what am I doing wrong.

What LR adjustments are you doing? I presume you are starting with a RAW....

In LR's Develop Module, the ones to check for affecting graininess are Sharpening (not too much), Noise (apply enough to smooth the image; you are shooting at high speeds at ISO100, so I presume your images are in real bright light and so there is not much noise coming from the sensor to start off with), Contrast (again apply just enough), and then Clarity (be very very careful with that and use very sparingly unless you want a heavily processed effect). There is also a Grain effect but I assume you are not applying this.

Also what Export settings do you have for the JPEGs? Are you Sharpenng there again?

-- hide signature --

Hello, I just upload them from my camera card to liveroom.  Then do my thing.  I am doing something really really wrong.  I will figure this out.  Thank you so much for the help.

No I just upload the photos and then sharpen but no more then the number 50.  What number do you all usually go to on contrast in light room? Clarity I love clarity .. LOL trying to calm down my hand on that little lever.  LOL

I don't know maybe Me uploading off the camera card and yes.. I shoot in raw.   That then their fore is raw I am converting right? I couldn't figure out what I was uploading when I had my camera set to raw and jpeg.  So now I just keep it set in raw.  Thank you

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Ron Poelman
Veteran MemberPosts: 4,337Gear list
Like?
Under exposing has it's uses .....
In reply to Nano princess, Jun 4, 2013

you just have to choose which bit counts !

 Ron Poelman's gear list:Ron Poelman's gear list
Sony Cyber-shot DSC-H2 Sony Cyber-shot DSC-R1 Sony SLT-A57 Sony Alpha 7R
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Mark K W
Senior MemberPosts: 1,139
Like?
Re: Whats causing the grainy, dirty look to my photos after using lightroom?
In reply to Nano princess, Jun 4, 2013

Mark K W wrote:

What LR adjustments are you doing? I presume you are starting with a RAW....

In LR's Develop Module, the ones to check for affecting graininess are Sharpening (not too much), Noise (apply enough to smooth the image; you are shooting at high speeds at ISO100, so I presume your images are in real bright light and so there is not much noise coming from the sensor to start off with), Contrast (again apply just enough), and then Clarity (be very very careful with that and use very sparingly unless you want a heavily processed effect). There is also a Grain effect but I assume you are not applying this.

Also what Export settings do you have for the JPEGs? Are you Sharpenng there again?

Hello, I just upload them from my camera card to liveroom.  Then do my thing.  I am doing something really really wrong.  I will figure this out.  Thank you so much for the help.

No I just upload the photos and then sharpen but no more then the number 50.  What number do you all usually go to on contrast in light room?

I am very sparing on all my adjustments (starting with an A900 or A700 RAW file). I adjust Highlights/Shadows/Whites/Blacks by holding down the ALT key which shows you clearly where the limit point is. Contrast I just tend to nudge up a bit to my taste, but often not over 15 or 20. Exposure is set with an eye on the histogram and how I want my image.

Clarity I love clarity .. LOL trying to calm down my hand on that little lever.  LOL

Clarity is both great for things which have natural structure (e.g. clouds, bricks, flaky paint, wood), but also can be very excessive for things which are naturally smooth, and should always be used very carefully in areas where the image is naturally dark because all it will do is accentuate the noise. I often only use clarity heavily in an area with either a graduated filter (e.g. for cloudy skies) or else with adjustment brush.

Sharpening and noise reduction are in some ways opposites, and you just have to adjust carefully each to your taste being mindful of the 1:1 image view panel set to an appropriate area in the image as you do it. There is an actual science as to how to do both as "accurately" as possible, but it's not something to explain simply as it depends on the image content.

I don't know maybe Me uploading off the camera card and yes.. I shoot in raw.   That then their fore is raw I am converting right? I couldn't figure out what I was uploading when I had my camera set to raw and jpeg.  So now I just keep it set in raw.  Thank you

You can see from the filename in LR what is file you are making the adjustments on. Sony RAW is .ARW file.

-- hide signature --
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Nano princess
Regular MemberPosts: 288
Like?
Re: Under exposing has it's uses .....
In reply to Ron Poelman, Jun 4, 2013

Ron Poelman wrote:

you just have to choose which bit counts !

Now isn't that seriously underexposed? sorry.. looks cool though.  ayyayaa will I ever get this down.  Yes I will one day.  Smiles..

Thank you so much

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Nano princess
Regular MemberPosts: 288
Like?
Re: Whats causing the grainy, dirty look to my photos after using lightroom?
In reply to Mark K W, Jun 4, 2013

Mark K W wrote:

Mark K W wrote:

What LR adjustments are you doing? I presume you are starting with a RAW....

In LR's Develop Module, the ones to check for affecting graininess are Sharpening (not too much), Noise (apply enough to smooth the image; you are shooting at high speeds at ISO100, so I presume your images are in real bright light and so there is not much noise coming from the sensor to start off with), Contrast (again apply just enough), and then Clarity (be very very careful with that and use very sparingly unless you want a heavily processed effect). There is also a Grain effect but I assume you are not applying this.

Also what Export settings do you have for the JPEGs? Are you Sharpenng there again?

Hello, I just upload them from my camera card to liveroom.  Then do my thing.  I am doing something really really wrong.  I will figure this out.  Thank you so much for the help.

No I just upload the photos and then sharpen but no more then the number 50.  What number do you all usually go to on contrast in light room?

I am very sparing on all my adjustments (starting with an A900 or A700 RAW file). I adjust Highlights/Shadows/Whites/Blacks by holding down the ALT key which shows you clearly where the limit point is. Contrast I just tend to nudge up a bit to my taste, but often not over 15 or 20. Exposure is set with an eye on the histogram and how I want my image.

Clarity I love clarity .. LOL trying to calm down my hand on that little lever.  LOL

Clarity is both great for things which have natural structure (e.g. clouds, bricks, flaky paint, wood), but also can be very excessive for things which are naturally smooth, and should always be used very carefully in areas where the image is naturally dark because all it will do is accentuate the noise. I often only use clarity heavily in an area with either a graduated filter (e.g. for cloudy skies) or else with adjustment brush.

Sharpening and noise reduction are in some ways opposites, and you just have to adjust carefully each to your taste being mindful of the 1:1 image view panel set to an appropriate area in the image as you do it. There is an actual science as to how to do both as "accurately" as possible, but it's not something to explain simply as it depends on the image content.

I don't know maybe Me uploading off the camera card and yes.. I shoot in raw.   That then their fore is raw I am converting right? I couldn't figure out what I was uploading when I had my camera set to raw and jpeg.  So now I just keep it set in raw.  Thank you

You can see from the filename in LR what is file you are making the adjustments on. Sony RAW is .ARW file.

-- hide signature --

Thank you again for the detailed support.  Here I thought the grainy dirty look.  Which shows up massively more so when I convert photos to black and white.  thank you for the alt key info.  I remember seeing a video about that sometime back.  But have not been doing it that way for awhile.  Looks like its time I go back that.  Blessings

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Ron Poelman
Veteran MemberPosts: 4,337Gear list
Like?
Best thing to do with PP.....
In reply to Nano princess, Jun 4, 2013

is shove all those sliders all the way and all the way down and see what happens.
Remember, it's supposed to be fun.
You have no obligation to the rest of the planet to be an instant expert.

 Ron Poelman's gear list:Ron Poelman's gear list
Sony Cyber-shot DSC-H2 Sony Cyber-shot DSC-R1 Sony SLT-A57 Sony Alpha 7R
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Nano princess
Regular MemberPosts: 288
Like?
Re: Best thing to do with PP.....
In reply to Ron Poelman, Jun 4, 2013

Ron Poelman wrote:

is shove all those sliders all the way and all the way down and see what happens.
Remember, it's supposed to be fun.
You have no obligation to the rest of the planet to be an instant expert.

Thank you Ron

LOL... alright went back in and did my own way of my over pp editing.  But I love my over pp editing.  This is me!!! LOL.. I was trying to tame my editing earlier.  But it was blah to me. Thank you Ron.  I just don't want to overprocess because I cant get the fundamentals down as of yet.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
dlkeller
Veteran MemberPosts: 6,390
Like?
Re: Best thing to do with PP.....
In reply to Nano princess, Jun 5, 2013

To me that looks very overexposed which leads to a washed out look.  The trial that you felt was very under exposed may be a little bit, but not much.  In any case the things he did gave a very sharp, clear image--which is what I would want for the crystal pendant.

-- hide signature --

Dave

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Nano princess
Regular MemberPosts: 288
Like?
Re: Best thing to do with PP.....
In reply to dlkeller, Jun 5, 2013

dlkeller wrote:

To me that looks very overexposed which leads to a washed out look.  The trial that you felt was very under exposed may be a little bit, but not much.  In any case the things he did gave a very sharp, clear image--which is what I would want for the crystal pendant.

-- hide signature --

Dave

Ahhhh okay I see.  Thank you.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Ed at Ridersite
Forum ProPosts: 15,773
Like?
Re: Whats causing the grainy, dirty look to my photos after using lightroom?
In reply to Nano princess, Jun 5, 2013

If you are using LR4, it appears to me that you need to move the Luminance NR slider to the right a bit - maybe to 10.  Slide it just a bit and pay attention to the background.  If it doesn't clear up, slide it a bit more and wait a second.  Continue this until it meets your expectations.

The EXIF says aperture = F1 - not sure why.  So, I assume you were shooting wide open at f1.4.  I see some CA/PF.  Not a lot, but enough that a few spots could use some correcting.  Either use the adjustment brush (moving the defringe slider to 100) and brush a few strokes over the purple fringe, or use the Remove Chromatic Aberration box to get rid of the purple fringe.

-- hide signature --

AEH
http://aehass.zenfolio.com/
http://aehass.zenfolio.com/blog
Question: What do you do all week?
Answer: Mon to Fri. Nothing, Sat & Sun I rest!

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
stan_pustylnik
Veteran MemberPosts: 3,459Gear list
Like?
bokeh is good, use exposure compensation
In reply to Nano princess, Jun 5, 2013

I my oppinion "dirty, noisy look" in these samples come from slight underexposure. try +0.5  ot +0.7 Exposure compensation.

Bokeh of this lens is good, lens with bad bokeh would create donuts instead of circles.

-- hide signature --

Person is taking photos, not camera. When photograph is bad, it's because photographer doesn't know how to choose settings optimal to "own preferences". Then blames camera for bad IQ.
This is same as blaming car about arriving to wrong destination.
http://stan-pustylnik.smugmug.com

 stan_pustylnik's gear list:stan_pustylnik's gear list
Panasonic Lumix DMC-TS2 Sony Alpha DSLR-A850 Sony Alpha 7 II
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Draek
Senior MemberPosts: 2,028Gear list
Like?
Re: Whats causing the grainy, dirty look to my photos after using lightroom? Ronkinon...
In reply to Nano princess, Jun 5, 2013

To respond to the easiest question first... what constitutes "good" bokeh is entirely up to the individual. Do you like it? then it's good. You don't? then it's bad. Myself, I hate the bokeh from the Helios 44-2 58/2.0 russian lens I own, but many owners of the same lens like it. Are they wrong? nope. Am I wrong? nope. It's subjective, like saying your liking of strawberry ice cream is "wrong" somehow.

As for the "grainy" look, well that one's tougher, as I don't see anything of the sort. One possible reason is noise, which is to be expected since all cameras produce it at all ISOs to one degree or another, so if you look hard enough you'll always find it, specially in RAW images which haven't had noise reduction applied to them. Another possible reason is, well, that your lens ain't the sharpest one in the bunch and lacking in micro-contrast as well, which is to be expected from a fast lens shot wide open---try shooting with it stopped down to f/4 or so, and see if the image becomes sufficiently clearer. And a third alternative is that you've simply cranked Lightroom's sharpening algorithms far too high, and what you're seeing is sharpening artifacts around; I don't think that's the case myself, but do try lowering it to 10-25, or even down to zero altogether and see if things improve then.

 Draek's gear list:Draek's gear list
Fujifilm FinePix F70EXR Samsung TL500 Canon PowerShot A1200 Sony Alpha DSLR-A390
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Keyboard shortcuts:
FForum MMy threads