Would you switch brands if an nex sized ff competitor entered the market?

Started Jun 4, 2013 | Discussions
Tastybread
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Would you switch brands if an nex sized ff competitor entered the market?
Jun 4, 2013

I've been thinking about this for a little while. I desperately want to move onto ff sensors but can't stand the size of the available dslr's. I fully believe that Sony will try to bring something to the market before anyone else, but I often wonder how attached I am to the platform. If a competitor happened to beat Sony to the punch and thsee hardware were respectable, I probably wouldn't hesitate.

Keit ll
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Re: Would you switch brands if an nex sized ff competitor entered the market?
In reply to Tastybread, Jun 4, 2013

Whether anyone would switch may depend on what lenses any FF 'NEX' would use. If it took A mount lenses then there would be a strong incentive to stay with Sony if the user had a number of such lenses but if the FF required entirely new FF E mount lenses then it might be better to switch systems as a totally new set of options would present itself.

It might be wise not to rush into this market as matters may change rapidly.

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Computer Controlled
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Re: Would you switch brands if an nex sized ff competitor entered the market?
In reply to Keit ll, Jun 4, 2013

Sony RX-1

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Spunky8
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Re: Would you switch brands if an nex sized ff competitor entered the market?
In reply to Computer Controlled, Jun 4, 2013

Computer Controlled wrote:

Sony RX-1

The RX-1 does it but at an extremely hefty price.

What the RX-1 is missing is a built-in viewfinder.  I think it would be an easy step for Sony to make a full-frame Nex with viewfinder and it wouldn't surprise me at all if it announces one this year.

If Sony got its act together by implementing sensible menus, a FF Nex with viewfinder would tempt me enormously.

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Keit ll
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Re: Would you switch brands if an nex sized ff competitor entered the market?
In reply to Spunky8, Jun 4, 2013

The RX-1 is irrelevant to the ordinary user , it is too expensive & has no EVF.  If Sony see compact FF as a means to milk the buying public then they will definitely open the door to competitors.

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Marla2008
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Re: Would you switch brands if an nex sized ff competitor entered the market?
In reply to Tastybread, Jun 4, 2013

It's an interesting question. I'm a heavy NEX user who's invested in the system not so much financially (I own only 2 E lenses as I find the line-up really poor and lousy as a whole), as emotionally. I totally bonded with the NEX 7 and find the 6 (that I also own) a solid performer, and the menus and peculiar interface have become totally intuitive to me at this point (especially on the 7, whose TriNavi system is genius imo).

To me the only real question is : do you need AF. It all boils down to that. I just ordered a Lens Turbo focal reducer which is going to let me use Nikon FF lenses at their native focal lentgh and aperture (please don't going into hair splitting, I know it's a rough equivalence, but good enough for me). I am comfortable with the loss of AF (many of those lenses I use don't have AF in the first place). I resent the fact that it ties me to a single mount (or could get awfully expensive if I wanted several of those adapters in various mounts), but I think I can also live with that. If an OM to NEX Lens Turbo is born in the future, I might consider this and stick to OM lenses. Or maybe by then I'll have my need covered in Nikon AI-s and F lenses, doesn't matter.

So really the answer to that question is more about global systems than camera bodies (as always, anyway). I personally want 3 lenses : a "normal" (50mm equivalent) prime, a standard zoom (28-70 equivalent, fast aperture) and a fastish tele (70-200 at F4 max is good). And I can live without AF so far. However, I realise many people have totally different needs, want a much larger lens selection, and will not do without AF (which shouldn't be a problem much longer as I think all manufacturers are working really hard at craking the mirrorless AF riddle).

At this point I wouldn't switch my NEX 7 for anything else than a NEX 7 replacement with *much* faster AF and a touch screen (if neither, no us upgrading at all for me). YMMV.

Morning break

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jpr2
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Claire: I'm with you on most you've said
In reply to Marla2008, Jun 4, 2013

Marla2008 wrote:

It's an interesting question. I'm a heavy NEX user who's invested in the system not so much financially (I own only 2 E lenses as I find the line-up really poor and lousy as a whole), as emotionally. I totally bonded with the NEX 7 and find the 6 (that I also own) a solid performer, and the menus and peculiar interface have become totally intuitive to me at this point (especially on the 7, whose TriNavi system is genius imo).

To me the only real question is : do you need AF. It all boils down to that. I just ordered a Lens Turbo focal reducer which is going to let me use Nikon FF lenses at their native focal lentgh and aperture (please don't going into hair splitting, I know it's a rough equivalence, but good enough for me). I am comfortable with the loss of AF (many of those lenses I use don't have AF in the first place). I resent the fact that it ties me to a single mount (or could get awfully expensive if I wanted several of those adapters in various mounts), but I think I can also live with that. If an OM to NEX Lens Turbo is born in the future, I might consider this and stick to OM lenses. Or maybe by then I'll have my need covered in Nikon AI-s and F lenses, doesn't matter.

So really the answer to that question is more about global systems than camera bodies (as always, anyway). I personally want 3 lenses : a "normal" (50mm equivalent) prime, a standard zoom (28-70 equivalent, fast aperture) and a fastish tele (70-200 at F4 max is good). And I can live without AF so far. However, I realise many people have totally different needs, want a much larger lens selection, and will not do without AF (which shouldn't be a problem much longer as I think all manufacturers are working really hard at craking the mirrorless AF riddle).

At this point I wouldn't switch my NEX 7 for anything else than a NEX 7 replacement with *much* faster AF and a touch screen (if neither, no us upgrading at all for me). YMMV.

  • MF covers about 70-75% of all my needs, and now with the EF to E-mount speed booster the  EF 135/2L is on the N7 most of the time, yieldin a pretty good compromise to the EF 85/1.2L, in almost all aspects but the  AF (1/2 kingdom would be a small price for even the slow & kludgy speed of the 85L) on Eos FF;
  • I've also many, many other lenses in the EF mount, so the only thing I really miss are some FLs for a truly  FAST action & of course AF !!!
  • I've rented & tried all fast E primes & the 10-18, but AFing with them on N7 was a pretty sad joke  for action shooting;
  • so yes: although the quasi-FF solution above is a pretty good substitute, a truly fast AF'ing FF in E-mount will be perhaps tempting enough for me to buy;
  • the RX-1 is NOT a substitue: the lack of a built-in VF, no lens interchangeability , and no flippable/fully atrticulated  LCD  are deal breakers for me;
  • and they will be on any FF attempt as well;
  • however, IFF... Canon wil do it first and DO IT WELL... there won't be any reasons left to wait for Sony, BUT... "well" does mean fulfilling my listed criteria to a hilt !!
jpr2
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Computer Controlled
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Re: Would you switch brands if an nex sized ff competitor entered the market?
In reply to Spunky8, Jun 4, 2013

FF in general comes with a hefty price.  A FF NEX wouldn't be much, if any cheaper than the RX-1.

Spunky8 wrote:

Computer Controlled wrote:

Sony RX-1

The RX-1 does it but at an extremely hefty price.

What the RX-1 is missing is a built-in viewfinder.  I think it would be an easy step for Sony to make a full-frame Nex with viewfinder and it wouldn't surprise me at all if it announces one this year.

If Sony got its act together by implementing sensible menus, a FF Nex with viewfinder would tempt me enormously.

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nevercat
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Re: Would you switch brands if an nex sized ff competitor entered the market?
In reply to Tastybread, Jun 4, 2013

I will not upgrade to a Ff (mirrorless) camera at the moment the first cameras come to town. The price will be way to high, and all kind of problems will show up, I will wait until more FF cameras are on the market and the prece have droped. Then I will look at them again and probably find my Nex 5 will still be a good camera and I wil keep my money in my pocket.

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NEXFULLFRAME
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Re: Would you switch brands if an nex sized ff competitor entered the market?
In reply to Tastybread, Jun 4, 2013

Yes, because I already have a bunch of M and SLR lenses. The M240 already looks pretty good except for price ($7k).

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GaryW
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Re: Would you switch brands if an nex sized ff competitor entered the market?
In reply to Keit ll, Jun 4, 2013

Keit ll wrote:

Whether anyone would switch may depend on what lenses any FF 'NEX' would use. If it took A mount lenses then there would be a strong incentive to stay with Sony if the user had a number of such lenses but if the FF required entirely new FF E mount lenses then it might be better to switch systems as a totally new set of options would present itself.

If a camera uses A-mount lenses, then it would be a DSLR/DSLT replacement, I would think.  I think Sony is going to go down that route.  But if you make something with an e-mount and an included a-mount adapter, you could get the best of both worlds -- use your A-mount lenses, and if appropriate e-mount lenses appear, you can use those.  My guess is that Sony will get there eventually.

It might be wise not to rush into this market as matters may change rapidly.

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nzmacro
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Re: Would you switch brands if an nex sized ff competitor entered the market?
In reply to Tastybread, Jun 4, 2013

It would have to have focus peaking and take adaptors for legacy lenses with no added optics in them.

So at this point in time, I'll wait and see what Sony has in store for the NEX system. The 7 is working well and there is no point if the camera works fine for what I take.

All the best.

Danny.

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C.Eaton
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Re: Would you switch brands if an nex sized ff competitor entered the market?
In reply to Tastybread, Jun 4, 2013

Tbh I don't understand the obsession with FF sensors in compact cameras. Surely the whole point of buying into a compact system camera is that you enjoy the compactness?

As soon as you go FF the whole ball game changes with regard to lens size/weight etc. This is probably the reason why we haven't seen such a beast yet as an interchangable system.

If you want to get a taste of how the system handles, get an adaptor for your NEX for the SLR range of lenses of choice. Buy/borrow/steal said SLR lenses.

Tote these around for a while and then wonder why you don't just go back to a DSLR body and be done with it.

Tastybread wrote:

I've been thinking about this for a little while. I desperately want to move onto ff sensors but can't stand the size of the available dslr's. I fully believe that Sony will try to bring something to the market before anyone else, but I often wonder how attached I am to the platform. If a competitor happened to beat Sony to the punch and thsee hardware were respectable, I probably wouldn't hesitate.

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Mel Snyder
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A funny thing happened on the way to a FF prosumer camera at Nikon...
In reply to Tastybread, Jun 4, 2013

Tastybread wrote:

I've been thinking about this for a little while. I desperately want to move onto ff sensors but can't stand the size of the available dslr's. I fully believe that Sony will try to bring something to the market before anyone else, but I often wonder how attached I am to the platform. If a competitor happened to beat Sony to the punch and thsee hardware were respectable, I probably wouldn't hesitate.

...APS-C got increasingly competitive - and the smart consumers who don't make 16x24 prints and instead put their images on line said, "wait a minute..."

FF would make cameras bigger to accommodate the sensor and lens-to-sensor distance. Then, you no longer have a serious competitor to the DSLR people don't want to lug.

Reminds me what happened when Fuji tried to scale up a 35mm rangefinder design to accommodate a 6x7 and 6x9 cm negatives, and Kodak did likewise with the Medalist - and both fell flat on their faces.

Everyone is so sure that Sony will make a FF NEX. I'm not. The NEX-7 sensor today is better than DSLR sensors were just 3 years ago. 3 years from now, advances in the APS-C sensor technology will be seriously competitive with FF sensors today, and big-print production will be further in the rear view mirrors of most consumers.

And iPhone cameras will eat even further into the consumer market for cameras like the NEX. Let's face it - the NEX line may well have been Sony's last hurrah in trying to establish a foothold in the camera business. The company is totally absorbed in figuring out how to recapture the TV market, and how to monetize its media. Photos are the pimple on the butt of the company today as it struggles to regain scale and market relevance. A FF NEX does nothing to advance either corporate goal.

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Dirk W
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Re: Would you switch brands if an nex sized ff competitor entered the market?
In reply to Marla2008, Jun 4, 2013

This picture is really great, Marla2008!

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Beaverhelmet
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Re: Would you switch brands if an nex sized ff competitor entered the market?
In reply to C.Eaton, Jun 4, 2013

C.Eaton wrote:

Tote these around for a while and then wonder why you don't just go back to a DSLR body and be done with it.

Because none of the existing DSLR cameras can be adapted to take the same amount of various lenses that the NEX can? Because a NEX can be small and nimble when you want it to be?

It's called freedom of choice. Some of us likes that.

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NEXFULLFRAME
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Re: Would you switch brands if an nex sized ff competitor entered the market?
In reply to C.Eaton, Jun 4, 2013

C.Eaton wrote:

Tbh I don't understand the obsession with FF sensors in compact cameras. Surely the whole point of buying into a compact system camera is that you enjoy the compactness?

As soon as you go FF the whole ball game changes with regard to lens size/weight etc. This is probably the reason why we haven't seen such a beast yet as an interchangable system.

If you want to get a taste of how the system handles, get an adaptor for your NEX for the SLR range of lenses of choice. Buy/borrow/steal said SLR lenses.

Tote these around for a while and then wonder why you don't just go back to a DSLR body and be done with it.

Tastybread wrote:

I've been thinking about this for a little while. I desperately want to move onto ff sensors but can't stand the size of the available dslr's. I fully believe that Sony will try to bring something to the market before anyone else, but I often wonder how attached I am to the platform. If a competitor happened to beat Sony to the punch and thsee hardware were respectable, I probably wouldn't hesitate.

Well, one of the reason I like my fullframe lenses are that they are all smaller than the SONY NEX APS-C lenses.

M lenses are not big bulky fullframe SLR lenses.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8371/8418290893_1d0c075f0d_z.jpg

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Michael Everett
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Re: Would you switch brands if an nex sized ff competitor entered the market?
In reply to NEXFULLFRAME, Jun 4, 2013

Somewhere down the road I might, but right now I get such good images out of my NEX 7 and good MF primes, that I feel no desperate need to do so.  Once the FD Speed Booster comes out, I will have even more low light capabilities, obviating much of the need for the better high ISO of FF.  In addition one reason I went with Nex from m43 was the DR especially of the Nex 7.  I would rather invest in glass that does justice to the sensor.  I think much of the FF lust is generated by hype from blogs and maybe manufacturers.

Given the IQ quality of the Nex lineup I don't see the camera as the limiting factor in my photography and I'm not sure FF would make any appreciable difference.

Michael

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JeffS7444
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Fuji's medium format "failures"
In reply to Mel Snyder, Jun 4, 2013

Mel Snyder wrote:

Reminds me what happened when Fuji tried to scale up a 35mm rangefinder design to accommodate a 6x7 and 6x9 cm negatives, and Kodak did likewise with the Medalist - and both fell flat on their faces.

Yup, Fuji's 6x4.6, 6x7 and 6x9 rangefinders were such dismal failures that they produced at least 3-4 generations of them, and last time I checked, still offer a 6x7 folder in Japan. Mainstream best-sellers, no, but I doubt that was ever their intent.

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JeffS7444
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Try a Leica M Typ 240
In reply to Tastybread, Jun 4, 2013

How desperate are you? Leica M Typ 240 offers full 24x36 sensor, competitive with the RX1's, interchangeable lenses, and optional shoe-mounted EVF. Not inexpensive though, and it doesn't offer autofocus. The older M9 can be had for much less, doesn't offer through-the-lens viewing or video, has a rather old-school CCD, but it's also full-frame.

IMO, nothing magical happens when you move to FF: Mostly you are working with longer focal lengths, and they "draw" a bit differently, that's all.

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