What Olympus actually promised:

Started May 27, 2013 | Discussions
erichK
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Re: High Angst always precedes the typical 3-4 year upgrade.
In reply to Forgottenbutnotgone, May 30, 2013

Forgottenbutnotgone wrote:

alfredbomping wrote:

it's because the E-X series is already a bit behind the curve specs wise ( compared to other semi pro DSLR like D300, 7D ) at the time of announcement.

Not only that, but for nearly the entire time that the Olympus 4/3's system has been in existence, the sensor, in my opinion, has been the shot in the foot of a host of innovations that potentially could have put Olympus on top of the market. What good is all the telecentricity in the world if it's recorded on an inferior medium? Back in the days before digital, there was so much emphasis put on the film. Any optical improvements must be made in addition to, and not in lieu of good film. Instead, for the entire time I've been an Olympus DSLR user, we've had to work around the sensor. Now we have one, and of all people, the "pro" camera buyers and users are the last to see it in a body WE can use.

Also 3-4 year upgrade cycle is already an eternity in today's tech hungry world. They should offer a incremental upgrade model in between major upgrade similar to what Apple is doing with the iPhone 4 to 4s to 5. Just my 2 cents.

The upgrade cycle would not be quite as critical if, as in your point above, the current offering at least started out at the cutting edge of the technology at the time.

For me, the mFT cameras have more or less represented the "incremental upgrades".  Even the PL1, the first mFT camera I owned, seemed to offer some sensor/pipeline improvements, and I was gobsmacked to find that a bird shot almost blindly taken on a bright sunny day, with it mounting my 70-300 among my most successful and salable large prints.  Largely dumb luck, of course, but also testimony to  pretty capable sensor/processing engine (as well a a good copy of that lens).  And I'm just beginning to really explore what the OM-D is capable of, again often behind FT lenses.

Nevertheless, as Olympus keeps telling us they know, we DO need that new larger "pro" body - and even a sidekick for it.  For all the reasons they have admitted and given above, and also because either of these mFT cameras looks so silly behing my 150f2 that I can only imagine the looks it woulf get behind the 90-250 or 300 f2.8!

We're serious photographers, after all.  What the Duck ;-).

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OM 6Ti Plus
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Re: The latest rumors
In reply to Rriley, May 31, 2013

Riley,

with all due respect I think you are approaching this from the wrong direction. I think a hybrid has to start with a m4/3 body; you need mirrorless, PDAF on sensor and EVF for it to work. The base mount is m4/3 and when using the body in m4/3 mode the 4/3 mount is retracted back to the body on a helical mount that leaves the 4/3 connections disconnected from any power at the top of the tube. When you want to use 4/3 lenses you rotate the mount ring and the 4/3 mount comes out from the body to the required register distance and the 4/3 power connections which run straight from front to back of the tube rotate down and forward to make contact onto the back of the relevant pins of the m4/3 mount with a detent pin serving to both lock the mount in position and signal that the body is in 4/3 mode. Oh no, there I go again, must learn to patent these ideas before publishing

And if Olympus are reading this and it wasn't the way they were going to do it . . . you're welcome to the idea guys, just send me one of the first production batch in lieu of a fee thanks.

Mike

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Rriley
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Re: The latest rumors
In reply to OM 6Ti Plus, May 31, 2013

OM 6Ti Plus wrote:

Riley,

with all due respect I think you are approaching this from the wrong direction. I think a hybrid has to start with a m4/3 body; you need mirrorless, PDAF on sensor and EVF for it to work.

I think i did too, then I put that on sensor pdAF m43rds camera in a 43rds box, thats where it went 'different'

The base mount is m4/3 and when using the body in m4/3 mode the 4/3 mount is retracted back to the body on a helical mount that leaves the 4/3 connections disconnected from any power at the top of the tube. When you want to use 4/3 lenses you rotate the mount ring and the 4/3 mount comes out from the body to the required register distance and the 4/3 power connections which run straight from front to back of the tube rotate down and forward to make contact onto the back of the relevant pins of the m4/3 mount with a detent pin serving to both lock the mount in position and signal that the body is in 4/3 mode. Oh no, there I go again, must learn to patent these ideas before publishing

not sure its harder to make something 2x as wide shrink, or move something inside a 43rds camera to provide a m43 in a 43rds box.

conceptually this is what that looks like inside
http://youtu.be/24VOEMx5xzo

In GH2 you only have about 12mm from the mount to the top of the sensor due to the sensor stack. Since you need to make a difference of about 18mm, Im not sure theres enough to collapse into if you put that helical mount over an m43rds body..

however, I like the helical mount idea a lot

I guess in any event there has to be a moving part, and the trick will be in controlling the accuracy of the movement at either end of the stroke (not during as in the youtube mechanism)

And if Olympus are reading this and it wasn't the way they were going to do it . . . you're welcome to the idea guys, just send me one of the first production batch in lieu of a fee thanks.

good luck with that!

Mike

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Forgottenbutnotgone
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Re: High Angst always precedes the typical 3-4 year upgrade.
In reply to erichK, Jun 2, 2013

erichK wrote:

Forgottenbutnotgone wrote:

For me, the mFT cameras have more or less represented the "incremental upgrades".  Even the PL1, the first mFT camera I owned, seemed to offer some sensor/pipeline improvements, and I was gobsmacked to find that a bird shot almost blindly taken on a bright sunny day, with it mounting my 70-300 among my most successful and salable large prints.  Largely dumb luck, of course, but also testimony to  pretty capable sensor/processing engine (as well a a good copy of that lens).  And I'm just beginning to really explore what the OM-D is capable of, again often behind FT lenses.

I can understand why you would feel that way, but shifting to mft is almost tantamount to changing brands when you consider that for the most part you have to start over with the lenses as well. And just as when channging brands, one is forced to adapt to a lens system that does not quite offer what one was accustomed to with FT's. I will grant you that the sensor you gain with such a transition is a strong incentive, but for many of those not eager to give up the OVF, the ultra brignt, swiss army zooms (as opposed to several primes) and the more comfortable size of the previous offerings, mft so far forces too many compromises.

Nevertheless, as Olympus keeps telling us they know, we DO need that new larger "pro" body - and even a sidekick for it.  For all the reasons they have admitted and given above, and also because either of these mFT cameras looks so silly behing my 150f2 that I can only imagine the looks it woulf get behind the 90-250 or 300 f2.8!

We're serious photographers, after all.  What the Duck ;-).

We at least try to be. It really will be nice to see Olympus take us seriously.

Robert

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Scanlon
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Re: I want to believe them.
In reply to Craig from Nevada, Jun 2, 2013

So do I. I agree that they desperately need to produce some new lenses, equivalent to the 50-200mm or longer, and, in the case of a hybrid, or m4/3rds, of that quality if they want to consider themselves a "system". If you cannot reliably track moving objects, and make the most of the present lineup of HG and SHG lenses, then there is certainly something missing, as the OP states. I do a lot of bird photography with the E-5 and it's more than a bit frustrating when you can't get the speed you need (because of excessive noise above 400 ISO), or cropping space (with the 12 MP cameras). There was a time when Sigma produced the 50-500mm, at a reasonable cost, to get the distance we needed. Now we have to rely entirely on Olympus for any lenses we use. If the new camera is a m4/3s, so be it, as long as there are the basic lenses that complete the system. A large collection of primes simply won't do it, for me. I know these ideas are not new, but if Olympus is reading this, that's my two-cents worth.

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rovingtim
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why did this thread vanish from the bookmarks?
In reply to erichK, 5 months ago

This thread was sitting at number 8 spot in bookmarks for ages and then suddenly it disappeared.

Anyone know what happened? Just curious.

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Big Ga
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Re: What Olympus actually promised:
In reply to erichK, 5 months ago

erichK wrote:

Exactly 3 months and 13 days ago. Some may want to call them liars, others may prefer the opinions of local reps or people they know "at Olympus".

Its been fascinating to read this thread. I missed it the first time around.

Now that we've had over a years worth of additional announcements etc, isn't it fairly certain that this news release was indeed nothing more than a blatant lie?

While the EM1 and anything that follows it are no doubt interesting and fairly capable cameras, What it/they are not is a 'digital single-lens reflex camera'.

So who has history shown was right and who was wrong in their predictions?

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rovingtim
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I just checked Oly's website
In reply to Big Ga, 5 months ago

Big Ga wrote:

erichK wrote:

Some may want to call them liars,

this news release was indeed nothing more than a blatant lie

Checking Olympus's UK home page ...

http://www.olympus.co.uk/site/en/c/cameras/

... there are no DSLR's at all. No E5. No E30. No E600.

For most adults, going from three lines of DSLRs to no DSLR's generally means 'drastic reduction'. This is precisely what Olympus promised, using real words, would not happen.

Now I know that many of the fine people posting above will consider someone daring to note that Olympus no longer sells DSLRs as DOOM and GLOOM. It only focuses on the negative. Negative people should be banned from this forum. Right?

(I look forward to more of your nuggets from your little personal realities)

But for the rest of us who are actually adults, Olympus's release was a lie. And actually, as I previously posted, this statement was a lie when it was originally released.

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Messier Object
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Re: I just checked Oly's website
In reply to rovingtim, 5 months ago

rovingtim wrote:

Big Ga wrote:

erichK wrote:

Some may want to call them liars,

this news release was indeed nothing more than a blatant lie

Checking Olympus's UK home page ...

http://www.olympus.co.uk/site/en/c/cameras/

... there are no DSLR's at all. No E5. No E30. No E600.

same on Olympus Australia. The only reference here to the DSLR products is a mention within the 4/3 lens listing explaining what a 4/3 lens is, and links to E-Xx user manuals on the support page. Almost as if Oly is trying to hide that they ever existed

For most adults, going from three lines of DSLRs to no DSLR's generally means 'drastic reduction'. This is precisely what Olympus promised, using real words, would not happen.

Now I know that many of the fine people posting above will consider someone daring to note that Olympus no longer sells DSLRs as DOOM and GLOOM. It only focuses on the negative. Negative people should be banned from this forum. Right?

Well Tim, I'm all POSITIVE . . .

I'm POSITIVE thatt my cross-over into the world of Canon FF DSLR was a good move, and I spent $$$ ending up with a superb system that can do real C-AF tracking of birds in flight. 
I still have all of my Oly 4/3 gear and may buy an E-Mx someday if the AF with 4/3 lenses improves significantly. But I'll absolutely POSITIVELY never buy any m.4/3 lenses

Peter

(I look forward to more of your nuggets from your little personal realities)

But for the rest of us who are actually adults, Olympus's release was a lie. And actually, as I previously posted, this statement was a lie when it was originally released.

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rovingtim
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I'm curious why ...
In reply to Messier Object, 5 months ago

Messier Object wrote:

Well Tim, I'm all POSITIVE . . .

I'm POSITIVE thatt my cross-over into the world of Canon FF DSLR was a good move, and I spent $$$ ending up with a superb system that can do real C-AF tracking of birds in flight.

Did you find the CAF a revelation?

But I'll absolutely POSITIVELY never buy any m.4/3 lenses

Why no m4/3rds lenses? Do you mean Olympus m4/3rd lenses? Or do you despise everything optical m4/3rds?

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Great Bustard
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Re: I just checked Oly's website
In reply to Messier Object, 5 months ago

Messier Object wrote:

But I'll absolutely POSITIVELY never buy any m.4/3 lenses

May I ask why not?  Many of the mFT lenses seem to be quite outstanding.

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Messier Object
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Re: I just checked Oly's website
In reply to Great Bustard, 5 months ago

Great Bustard wrote:

Messier Object wrote:

But I'll absolutely POSITIVELY never buy any m.4/3 lenses

May I ask why not? Many of the mFT lenses seem to be quite outstanding.

GB,
yes, agreed the m.zuikos are by all accounts very nice indeed, and if I was just now moving from my old OM film system I'd almost certainly be going OMD . . .
But I moved to Oly 4/3 long time ago and I now have every focal length that I need.
I have all of the Zuiko 4/3 primes except for the 25mm, plus the 9-18, 12-60 and both 50-200 plus some others less worthy of mention.

If Oly doesn't provide a m.4/3 body capable of doing AF with my 4/3 lenses to my satisfaction, and with the handling and battery life that I want, then I'll not be buying an OMD. If they do, then I'll not be wanting any m.4/3 glass. Either way = no m.4/3 glass. I'd rather spend $ on my Canon system. At least there I have many more native options, plus Sigma and Tokina.

Peter

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Lab D
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Reality check
In reply to Messier Object, 5 months ago

So your 2 top priorities in a camera are AF speed and battery life, not IQ, not performance, not focus accuracy, or other features.

The E-M1 focuses faster than any Olympus DSLR with new lenses and just as fast as many older Olympus DSLRs with 4/3 lenses, so that should not be a deal breaker.  All you are left with is battery life, but you can get a grip with 2 batteries so that should not be a deal breaker either.

I would say a deal breaker is the combination of lower IQ, lesser focus accuracy, slower performance, worse IBIS, slow FPS, lower resolution, tiny lens selection (the E-M1 can be used with virtually any lens on the planet).

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goblin
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Re: I just checked Oly's website
In reply to Messier Object, 5 months ago

Messier Object wrote:

... Either way = no m.4/3 glass. I'd rather spend $ on my Canon system...

Your choice is your choice of course, but I believe you are locking yourself out of some quite interesting combinations which would certainly not integrate with your current gear, but are on their own a steal which could integrate into your "gearflow" could/should any m43 brand some day release an m43 body matching your AF needs:

- There are two absolutely amazing m43 lenses which on their own justify looking towards m43: the Zuiko 45mm 1.8, which can be found used at $250 (and $299 refurb) on a quite regular basis, and the much less known Sigma Art 60mm 2.8, which can be had for $160 used and $245 new.

Combined with an E-PM2 body (soon to be discontinued, last time it was on sale it went for $199 body only at newegg), any of those is more than worth the less than $500 it would cost.

Those two lenses simply make it worth buying an m43 combo on the side. Of course, the E-PM2 won't be the best choice for your 300mm, but then again it doesn't have to be used with it.

My $0.02 of course.

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TrapperJohn
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Not true...
In reply to rovingtim, 5 months ago

Oly USA shows the E5 in stock.

Well, they did state that they would continue DSLR's 'without change'... and the E5 doesn't appear to have changed... so, technically speaking, they have adhered to that statement. A bit too literally, but they have adhered to it.

Having owned an E3 and used an E5, and now having an EM1, I think Olympus absolutely did the right thing. They couldn't compete with C/N in the DSLR arena, so they headed off in a new direction and appear to be doing quite well there.

  • All of my ZD's work quite nicely on the EM1.
  • I get IBIS that works a lot better, and the VF is stabilized.
  • A lot of very useful preview and review modes. Chimping through the VF may look weird, but you can definitely see a lot more than on the rear screen.
  • The EM1 got 'camera of the year' awards, as did the EM5 the year before, against some pretty stiff competition. Who would have imagined that possible, six or seven years ago.
  • You can really pound on the RAWs in PP, without fear of banding.
  • The sharp, fast primes we always wanted? The OMD line has them.
  • Within a year of the EM5 coming out, Fuji and Sony come out with small, retro/SLR styled bodies. Imitation is the sincerest form...
  • Best of all: the OMD line appears to be economically viable, with an expanding customer base. It will be around for quite some time.

You want to give that up for a mirror and a prism? Not me. I like the direction they have gone in. It's not perfect, but the future looks a lot brighter than it did three years ago.

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Darrell500
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Re: Not true...
In reply to TrapperJohn, 5 months ago

TrapperJohn wrote:

Oly USA shows the E5 in stock.

Well, they did state that they would continue DSLR's 'without change'... and the E5 doesn't appear to have changed... so, technically speaking, they have adhered to that statement. A bit too literally, but they have adhered to it.

I quite literally just about fell off my chair laughing at this, thanks I needed that and you do have a point.

I can see it now Olympus marketing responding to criticism of their blatant lies and pointing out that yes you can still buy a new E5 in 2016, god this was funny.

Having owned an E3 and used an E5, and now having an EM1, I think Olympus absolutely did the right thing. They couldn't compete with C/N in the DSLR arena, so they headed off in a new direction and appear to be doing quite well there.

  • All of my ZD's work quite nicely on the EM1.
  • I get IBIS that works a lot better, and the VF is stabilized.
  • A lot of very useful preview and review modes. Chimping through the VF may look weird, but you can definitely see a lot more than on the rear screen.
  • The EM1 got 'camera of the year' awards, as did the EM5 the year before, against some pretty stiff competition. Who would have imagined that possible, six or seven years ago.
  • You can really pound on the RAWs in PP, without fear of banding.
  • The sharp, fast primes we always wanted? The OMD line has them.
  • Within a year of the EM5 coming out, Fuji and Sony come out with small, retro/SLR styled bodies. Imitation is the sincerest form...
  • Best of all: the OMD line appears to be economically viable, with an expanding customer base. It will be around for quite some time.

You want to give that up for a mirror and a prism? Not me. I like the direction they have gone in. It's not perfect, but the future looks a lot brighter than it did three years ago.

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Messier Object
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Re: Reality check
In reply to Lab D, 5 months ago

Lab D wrote:

So your 2 top priorities in a camera are AF speed and battery life, not IQ, not performance, not focus accuracy, or other feature

no, I want a camera that significantly improves on my E-5s ability to AF my existing lenses.

I want a camera that can AF track BIF with my existing 4/3 lenses

I want a camera that's easy to handle with my 3.2Kg lens on the front of it when I'm wearing gloves, have wet hands, in the bush

I want a camera that gets more than couple dozen shots out of the batteries when it freezing too cold to want to take off the gloves to change batteries.

And I don't want to have to buy a new set of lenses.

The E-M1 focuses faster than any Olympus DSLR with new lenses and just as fast as many older Olympus DSLRs with 4/3 lenses, so that should not be a deal breaker. All you are left with is battery life, but you can get a grip with 2 batteries so that should not be a deal breaker either.

I would say a deal breaker is the combination of lower IQ, lesser focus accuracy, slower performance, worse IBIS, slow FPS, lower resolution, tiny lens selection (the E-M1 can be used with virtually any lens on the planet).

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Great Bustard
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Re: Reality check
In reply to Messier Object, 5 months ago

Messier Object wrote:

Lab D wrote:

So your 2 top priorities in a camera are AF speed and battery life, not IQ, not performance, not focus accuracy, or other feature

no, I want a camera that significantly improves on my E-5s ability to AF my existing lenses.

I want a camera that can AF track BIF with my existing 4/3 lenses

I want a camera that's easy to handle with my 3.2Kg lens on the front of it when I'm wearing gloves, have wet hands, in the bush

I want a camera that gets more than couple dozen shots out of the batteries when it freezing too cold to want to take off the gloves to change batteries.

And I don't want to have to buy a new set of lenses.

I don't disagree with those sentiments. But an EM1 + 7-14 / 2.8 (not yet out) + 12-40 / 2.8 + 40-150 / 2.8 (not yet out) is one helluva setup, don't you think?

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Darrell500
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Re: I want to believe them.
In reply to rovingtim, 5 months ago

rovingtim wrote:

The problem is their actions are not in line with their words.

They used to have several lines of DSLR's. Now they only have one. In that one remaining line they have only one camera. That one camera is based on a 2007 design.

There have been no new lenses for how long? No new accessories. Stores are no longer stocking Olympus DSLR's or DSLR lenses or DSLR accessories indicating that Olympus is no longer supporting DSLR distribution in the way they used to.

I interpret this as a "drastic reduction or withdrawal from DSLR cameras."

What am I missing?

Fun reading this old stuff now and Tim, hindsight tells us you were reading their actions correctly. I being a little slow on the uptake actually believed their press release.

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Messier Object
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Re: Reality check
In reply to Great Bustard, 5 months ago

Great Bustard wrote:

Messier Object wrote:

Lab D wrote:

So your 2 top priorities in a camera are AF speed and battery life, not IQ, not performance, not focus accuracy, or other feature

no, I want a camera that significantly improves on my E-5s ability to AF my existing lenses.

I want a camera that can AF track BIF with my existing 4/3 lenses

I want a camera that's easy to handle with my 3.2Kg lens on the front of it when I'm wearing gloves, have wet hands, in the bush

I want a camera that gets more than couple dozen shots out of the batteries when it freezing too cold to want to take off the gloves to change batteries.

And I don't want to have to buy a new set of lenses.

I don't disagree with those sentiments. But an EM1 + 7-14 / 2.8 (not yet out) + 12-40 / 2.8 + 40-150 / 2.8 (not yet out) is one helluva setup, don't you think?

maybe so, but  I have the 5D3 with 16-35 . . .  and I look at m.ft as a third system that I don't have room for, and something like the sigma 50/1.4A is of more interest to me now

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