can you tell the IQ/ISO difference game: canon5dmk3 vs D800e at iso 6400

Started May 24, 2013 | Discussions
Dave Luttmann
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Re: I agree with others...
In reply to Just another Canon shooter, May 26, 2013

Just another Canon shooter wrote:

Great Bustard wrote:

Just another Canon shooter wrote:

ernieF wrote:

A fun exercise and surprising conclusion.

Why is it surprising? He used equivalent settings and got almost equivalent results. The 5d3 is only about 1/2 stop more efficient than the 40D.

It's still surprising.  The 5D3 sensor, as you note, is more efficient, and by virtue of the greater pixel count, NR (noise reduction) should make the balance of noise/detail fall further into its favor.

At this extreme ISO, the extra resolution coming from the more pixels and the less enlargement is mostly gone. For a closeup like this, the lower DOF would decrease the apparent sharpness.

But this is not so interesting, IMO. Most of the people here are under the impression that the crop body somehow performed equal to the FF, expecting about 2 stop difference and seeing almost none; without realizing that the expected advantage should be just 1/2 stop. I do not think that anybody would be surprised, if after heavy NR, the 5D2 and the 5D3 would look quite similar.

The point I was making is that with all the blathering on and on by some people about per pixel sharpness and creamy this or that, and they cant tell the difference between a 5D3 and an ancient 40D....a camera that doesnt even make the FF holy grail some scream about. This comparison should be an eye opener to some.

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Lumixdude
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So much for Nikon being better
In reply to clarkent1234, May 26, 2013

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ernieF
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Why surprise?
In reply to Dave Luttmann, May 26, 2013

Surprise because the premise of this exercise was stated as a 5D3 vs D800, so the OP skillfully sucked us in and then revealed that the comparison camera was a 40D-- not a D800.  I was pleasantly surprised by the actual test and the results.  It was just a fun thing, that's all.

Cheers.  Ernie

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Great Bustard
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Re: I agree with others...
In reply to Dave Luttmann, May 26, 2013

Dave Luttmann wrote:

The point I was making is that with all the blathering on and on by some people about per pixel sharpness and creamy this or that, and they cant tell the difference between a 5D3 and an ancient 40D....a camera that doesnt even make the FF holy grail some scream about. This comparison should be an eye opener to some.

The can't tell the difference when the 5D3 had 1 1/3 stops less exposure than the 40D, NR was applied to both, and the 5D3 photo was downsampled to the dimensions of the 40D photo.

What's so "eye opening" about this?

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Just another Canon shooter
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Re: I agree with others...
In reply to Dave Luttmann, May 26, 2013

Dave Luttmann wrote:

The point I was making is that with all the blathering on and on by some people about per pixel sharpness and creamy this or that, and they cant tell the difference between a 5D3 and an ancient 40D....a camera that doesnt even make the FF holy grail some scream about. This comparison should be an eye opener to some.

What is an eye opener - that FF allows you to shoot at 2.5 faster speed with the same results? Did that open your yes?

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Great Bustard
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Re: I agree with others...
In reply to Just another Canon shooter, May 26, 2013

Just another Canon shooter wrote:

Dave Luttmann wrote:

The point I was making is that with all the blathering on and on by some people about per pixel sharpness and creamy this or that, and they cant tell the difference between a 5D3 and an ancient 40D....a camera that doesnt even make the FF holy grail some scream about. This comparison should be an eye opener to some.

What is an eye opener - that FF allows you to shoot at 2.5 faster speed with the same results? Did that open your yes?

That's a good way to put it, presuming, of course, that the more shallow DOF this necessarily entails does not adversely affect the photo.

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Dave Luttmann
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Re: I agree with others...
In reply to Just another Canon shooter, May 26, 2013

Just another Canon shooter wrote:

Dave Luttmann wrote:

The point I was making is that with all the blathering on and on by some people about per pixel sharpness and creamy this or that, and they cant tell the difference between a 5D3 and an ancient 40D....a camera that doesnt even make the FF holy grail some scream about. This comparison should be an eye opener to some.

What is an eye opener - that FF allows you to shoot at 2.5 faster speed with the same results? Did that open your yes?

Really, do tell me how it does so with the same FOV and DOF.  I'm all ears.

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Great Bustard
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Start here...
In reply to Dave Luttmann, May 26, 2013

Dave Luttmann wrote:

Just another Canon shooter wrote:

Dave Luttmann wrote:

The point I was making is that with all the blathering on and on by some people about per pixel sharpness and creamy this or that, and they cant tell the difference between a 5D3 and an ancient 40D....a camera that doesnt even make the FF holy grail some scream about. This comparison should be an eye opener to some.

What is an eye opener - that FF allows you to shoot at 2.5 faster speed with the same results? Did that open your yes?

Really, do tell me how it does so with the same FOV and DOF.  I'm all ears.

...with my post above, where it's all spelled out:

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/51528951

The DOF thing is puzzling, though.  The DOF doesn't look all that different (although the background blur is rather more with the 5D3 photo), but the DOF should be half as much for the 5D3 photo, and it doesn't appear that way.

However, a possible resolution to that dilemma is that both photos are strong crops from a much wider framing, which could put the foreground flowers within the DOF for both systems.  Like I said, if the OP posted the RAW files, that would help in resolving a few problems.

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Just another Canon shooter
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Re: Start here...
In reply to Great Bustard, May 26, 2013

Great Bustard wrote:

The DOF thing is puzzling, though.

The perspective is different. The 40D shots is taken from a different, slightly closer position. The cropping is a factor as well, as you say.

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Just another Canon shooter
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Re: I agree with others...
In reply to Dave Luttmann, May 26, 2013

Dave Luttmann wrote:

Just another Canon shooter wrote:

Dave Luttmann wrote:

The point I was making is that with all the blathering on and on by some people about per pixel sharpness and creamy this or that, and they cant tell the difference between a 5D3 and an ancient 40D....a camera that doesnt even make the FF holy grail some scream about. This comparison should be an eye opener to some.

What is an eye opener - that FF allows you to shoot at 2.5 faster speed with the same results? Did that open your eyes?

Really, do tell me how it does so with the same FOV and DOF.  I'm all ears.

Do not tell me that you finally understood equivalence. If so, this thread may not be as worthless as it looks.

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Great Bustard
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Re: Start here...
In reply to Just another Canon shooter, May 26, 2013

Just another Canon shooter wrote:

Great Bustard wrote:

The DOF thing is puzzling, though.

The perspective is different. The 40D shots is taken from a different, slightly closer position. The cropping is a factor as well, as you say.

Well, 35mm on 1.6x results in a tighter framing than 50mm on FF, yet the 40D photo (bottom pic in the OP) is framed wider than the 5D3 photo (top pic in the OP).

So, if the 40D pic was taken from a closer position (and I'm not saying it wasn't), then the OP botched the "test" even further by not cropping the same proportion of the scene for the two pics.

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JasonED
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Re: can you tell the IQ/ISO difference game: canon5dmk3 vs D800e at iso 6400
In reply to qianp2k, May 26, 2013

qianp2k wrote:

Top from D800E and bottom from 5DIII that is slightly sharper and should be

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Hmmmm...   This post fails in so many ways...

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The sky is blue and there is nothing we can do..

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Y Hafting
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IQ/ISO difference game: canon6D vs 30D 3200
In reply to clarkent1234, May 26, 2013

clarkent1234 wrote:

hey,

simple game, pick the image you like better based on IQ and high ISO results! after 15 guesses, i'll reveal which images belongs to each camera.

Now you got me as well there until you revealed the truth. 

The difference between the sensor efficiency isn't all that great, which leaves much to proper noise treatment.

Here is a 100% crop comparison of 30D and 6D at iso 3200. Both shot at 1/60s f1.8 ISO 3200, handheld. Both treated with the normal curve, no sharpening, no NR,  2700K.

(use view original for 100%)

The biggest difference is that the 6D nailed the focus on the target bush, while the 30D found the brighter lit background. You can also see that there are quite a few pixels going hot on the 30D, while the 6D is pretty clean. Colour noise isn't all that much different.

Now this jpg is of course not revealing every difference that there are, only that much of the overall IQ difference between these come from sensor size, and the availability of higher ISOs.

-Yngve

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Y Hafting
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Re: IQ/ISO difference game: canon6D vs 30D 3200
In reply to Y Hafting, May 26, 2013

A small correction i used the neutral tone curve, (there is no "normal", just a typo)

BTW if anyone is qurious

here are the links to the raw files ( i hope they work):

https://www.dropbox.com/s/8dd6v4x5r4az0hw/IMG_0006.CR2

https://www.dropbox.com/s/j65mzq44cadyo43/IMG_2335.CR2

Feel free to see what you can get out of them.

-Yngve

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govindrv
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Re: can you tell the IQ/ISO difference game: canon5dmk3 vs D800e at iso 6400
In reply to clarkent1234, May 26, 2013

An eye opener. I'm amused by all the "controversial" replies this thread has attracted. Being an owner of 40d myself, I am contemplating a move to 6d. Nonetheless this test proves that if one possess good understanding of one's gear and has sufficient PP techniques, good images are not difficult to get from older gear.

Thank you clarkent1234. I'm keeping my 40d for now. Its been a fabulous and dependable performer.

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Tan68
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Re: can you tell the IQ/ISO difference game: canon5dmk3 vs D800e at iso 6400
In reply to solidstate9, May 26, 2013

This is what I thought as well.  I didn't pick the camera, though.  Just the image.

solidstate9 wrote:

I like 1 better because the centre flower is better exposure to my eye the bottom photo (2) is a little darker.

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jowill1026
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Re: can you tell the IQ/ISO difference game: canon5dmk3 vs D800e at iso 6400
In reply to clarkent1234, May 26, 2013

Looks like the first pic needs some microadjustments

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Apewithacamera
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There is no d800 here imo but I'll take a stab at it.
In reply to clarkent1234, May 26, 2013

5D 3 top and my gut feeling is that the bottom photo was taken with a Canon 40D

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Great Bustard
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An amazing guess!
In reply to Apewithacamera, May 27, 2013

Apewithacamera wrote:

5D 3 top and my gut feeling is that the bottom photo was taken with a Canon 40D

Pray tell, however did you come to that remarkable conclusion? 

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mariadc
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Re: What about resolution?
In reply to tbcass, May 27, 2013

tbcass wrote:

The 40D is only 10mp while the 5D MK III is 22 mp. Compare full size images from each camera and you will see the MK III has much more detail.

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I agree.  I was thinking of downgrading to 50D to save money.  I took shots and compared them to my 6D.  The detail is completely missing.  I don't know how the OP got the results he did, but in my own real-life tests, I see a huge difference.  And believe me, I wanted to save money.  But I just can't bring myself to go back after seeing what a hit in detail I would take, even cropping in more with a 6D.

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