2 Sigmas (19&30), or 20mm 1.7

Started May 23, 2013 | Discussions
QuakeO
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Re: 2 Sigmas (19&30), or 20mm 1.7
In reply to Moti, May 24, 2013

Moti wrote:

QuakeO wrote:

I want to add a prime or two for travel, daily stuff, and to improve my limited skills.

If you don't shoot in low light and really need fast lenses, don't buy any of them it will be a waste of money at this stage as these focal lengthes are covered with what you already have.

Do you think the difference in quality between theses primes and my zooms is so small?

If you really want to improve your photography skills, the only way to do it is to steady photography basics and to practice.  My advise to you is to take a photography class. It is less expansive and ill contribute to your photography much more than any lens can do.  Then, when you knoledge and skills are good, you'll know better what you need.

Moti

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The problem with today's classes is that they spend an inordinate amount of time on things I understand well: how a camera works, the relationship between shutter speed, aperture, and ISO, and other theoretical and technical elements. I would rather go out, experiment, and improve composition and decision making. My thinking was that a prime would force me to focus on important things.

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bluelemmy
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Re: 2 Sigmas (19&30), or 20mm 1.7
In reply to QuakeO, May 24, 2013

I'm just doing a review of the 30mm. Bigger than the 20mm but still small. Very, very sharp. A thoroughly good lens and an amazing bargain at that price.

I haven't tried the 19mm but it seems to be as good. I already have a 20mm but if I were buying now the 2 Sigmas would be top of my list instead.

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David
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PSCL1
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Re: 2 Sigmas (19&30), or 20mm 1.7
In reply to bluelemmy, May 24, 2013

I own both the 19 Sigma and 20 Panasonic, as well as EPL-1 and G3 bodies.

IMO, the 20 will be considered one of the great lenses of all time, despite reputed slow AF speed and its detractors.  It's up there with some Leica f2 Summicrons IMO and I wouldn't be surprised if Leica actually had had a hand in designing it.  Definitely, it is sharper than the 19 as well as faster.  I use the 20 on the EPL-1 but find myself using the 19 on the G3, where the feel and balance of that particular combination are just perfect for me.  I bought the 30 also, on a both for $199 Adorama deal when they were clearing out the old models for the cosmetically-only new Art models, but I've found little use for it.

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jkrumm
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The twenty first if you shoot indoors
In reply to QuakeO, May 24, 2013

Everyone can use a "fast normal" lens and the 20mm is a slightly wide normal on these cameras. I shoot a fair amount indoors and find myself using it at f1.7 a lot. So if you have family and plan to use your lenses indoors with available light, get the 20.

However, if you are mostly an outdoor shooter or perhaps are comfortable using flash indoors, get the Sigma's. F2.8 is not so slow after all, and we know they are nice quick focusing lenses, sharp wide open.

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QuakeO
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Re: 2 Sigmas (19&30), or 20mm 1.7
In reply to bluelemmy, May 24, 2013

bluelemmy wrote:

I'm just doing a review of the 30mm. Bigger than the 20mm but still small. Very, very sharp. A thoroughly good lens and an amazing bargain at that price.

I haven't tried the 19mm but it seems to be as good. I already have a 20mm but if I were buying now the 2 Sigmas would be top of my list instead.

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David
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David,

Do you have the EX version or the "Art" version of the lens?

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sarlo100
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Re: 2 Sigmas (19&30), or 20mm 1.7
In reply to bluelemmy, May 24, 2013

bluelemmy wrote:

I'm just doing a review of the 30mm. Bigger than the 20mm but still small. Very, very sharp. A thoroughly good lens and an amazing bargain at that price.

I haven't tried the 19mm but it seems to be as good. I already have a 20mm but if I were buying now the 2 Sigmas would be top of my list instead.

I'll confirm this assessment.  I have both Sigma lenses, and the 30 gives sharper results than the 19.  Not that the 19 is bad by any means, but the 30 is really exceptional.

As for the OP, it all comes down to speed and size.  If you need f/1.7 or a pancake lens, the decision is clear.  If you don't, the two Sigmas offer a far greater value.

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jquagga
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Re: 2 Sigmas (19&30), or 20mm 1.7
In reply to QuakeO, May 24, 2013

No, you should be able to see the prime difference against that just ok zoom.

However if you need a 45 and have a 20, then the zoom still wins. That's the trade off.

The 20 is currently my favorite lens. That said with the price, the two sigmas are tempting. Do you shoot anything at 30mm though. That's a wired length in 43 land. If you do any video, get the sigmas. If you want the sharpest, but a tiny bit slow lens in m43 get the Panny 20.

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Pic Man
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Re: 2 Sigmas (19&30), or 20mm 1.7
In reply to QuakeO, May 24, 2013

I haven't had any experience with the Sigmas and I'm sure they're great especially for the money but my pick would be the 20 1.7. I had this lens but I sold it because I have the 25 f1.4 which I prefer. When I had a GX1 though I used to the 20 a fair bit and it's an excellent lens. Small sharp and most importantly fast. There is a big difference between 1.7 and 2.8. If you like to shoot in lowlight then get the 20.

I'm not sure why the 20 gets a bad rep for slow focusing. When I used it on my old GX1 it focused just as fast as any of my other lenses. It did make a noise, not loud but you could hear it in a quiet room. If it hunts for focus then it can be slower because it takes longer to go through it's cycle but I think this only happened to me once in the whole time I had it. I have a X100 now and the GX1 with 20mm was in a different league in focus speed.

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alfredo_tomato
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Re: 2 Sigmas (19&30), or 20mm 1.7
In reply to QuakeO, May 24, 2013

I have the 19 and the 30, and I really like them.  For outdoor work and well lit interiors they are fine.  I have an EPL-1, and low light performance is not up to the EPL-5.

Yesterday I used the 30 in heavy overcast under a thick canopy of trees. I was able to shoot handheld landscapes without having to resort to going below f4.6 and above ISO 400.

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Silvernitrate
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Re: 2 Sigmas (19&30), or 20mm 1.7
In reply to bluelemmy, May 24, 2013

bluelemmy wrote:

I'm just doing a review of the 30mm. Bigger than the 20mm but still small. Very, very sharp. A thoroughly good lens and an amazing bargain at that price.

I haven't tried the 19mm but it seems to be as good. I already have a 20mm but if I were buying now the 2 Sigmas would be top of my list instead.

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David
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The new 60mm Sigma is looking as must have for me, I`m not keen on paying for a macro feature that I`m never going to use.

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tomtom50
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Re: 2 Sigmas (19&30), or 20mm 1.7
In reply to bluelemmy, May 24, 2013

bluelemmy wrote:

I'm just doing a review of the 30mm. Bigger than the 20mm but still small. Very, very sharp. A thoroughly good lens and an amazing bargain at that price.

I haven't tried the 19mm but it seems to be as good. I already have a 20mm but if I were buying now the 2 Sigmas would be top of my list instead.

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David
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Every review shows the 30mm stronger than the 19mm.

Basic 30mm review - this is not just a cheap lens, it is a GOOD lens.

Basic 19mm review - Good for the money but beyond that nothing special.

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amalric
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Re: 2 Sigmas (19&30), or 20mm 1.7
In reply to tomtom50, May 24, 2013

tomtom50 wrote:

bluelemmy wrote:

I'm just doing a review of the 30mm. Bigger than the 20mm but still small. Very, very sharp. A thoroughly good lens and an amazing bargain at that price.

I haven't tried the 19mm but it seems to be as good. I already have a 20mm but if I were buying now the 2 Sigmas would be top of my list instead.

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David
www.dthorpe.net

Every review shows the 30mm stronger than the 19mm.

Basic 30mm review - this is not just a cheap lens, it is a GOOD lens.

Basic 19mm review - Good for the money but beyond that nothing special.

Another one who is not afraid to obfuscate things. Does LensRentals say something to you, LOL?

http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2012/05/standard-range-micro-43-imatest-results

The 19mm is even better than the 30mm, that's Imatest with various samples.

Am.

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Silvernitrate
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Re: 2 Sigmas (19&30), or 20mm 1.7
In reply to amalric, May 24, 2013

amalric wrote:

tomtom50 wrote:

bluelemmy wrote:

I'm just doing a review of the 30mm. Bigger than the 20mm but still small. Very, very sharp. A thoroughly good lens and an amazing bargain at that price.

I haven't tried the 19mm but it seems to be as good. I already have a 20mm but if I were buying now the 2 Sigmas would be top of my list instead.

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David
www.dthorpe.net

Every review shows the 30mm stronger than the 19mm.

Basic 30mm review - this is not just a cheap lens, it is a GOOD lens.

Basic 19mm review - Good for the money but beyond that nothing special.

Another one who is not afraid to obfuscate things. Does LensRentals say something to you, LOL?

http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2012/05/standard-range-micro-43-imatest-results

The 19mm is even better than the 30mm, that's Imatest with various samples.

Am.

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I agree, although I don`t own a 30, i just borrowed one for an afternoon, my 19mm is much better.

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Spout Mouzert
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Re: 2 Sigmas (19&30), or 20mm 1.7
In reply to QuakeO, May 24, 2013

QuakeO wrote:

The Sigma lenses are now on sale in Canada for $130 each. The 20mm is $449 (or can be ordered from the US for $350 or so.

Go for pancake and 1.7? For two focal lengths?

Opinions welcome!

hi, do you have a link for the $130 deal, thanks.

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QuakeO
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Re: 2 Sigmas (19&30), or 20mm 1.7
In reply to Spout Mouzert, May 25, 2013

Spout Mouzert wrote:

QuakeO wrote:

The Sigma lenses are now on sale in Canada for $130 each. The 20mm is $449 (or can be ordered from the US for $350 or so.

Go for pancake and 1.7? For two focal lengths?

Opinions welcome!

hi, do you have a link for the $130 deal, thanks.

Henrys.com

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mh2000
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my girlfriend
In reply to QuakeO, May 25, 2013

My girlfriend has the P20. I have the Oly 17 + Sig 30 and I would rather have the two.

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mh2000
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Re: the two Sigma
In reply to amalric, May 25, 2013

amalric wrote:

Franka T.L. wrote:

For the price, one can hardly beat it ... other than the speed, the 19 can pretty much do all what the 20 deliver and unless you absolutely need that speed, otherwise I see no point not to pay less and adopt the 2 Sigma

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- Franka -

Exactly so. If you have to buy now, why be stuck in old AF technology? The 14/2.5 is much better than the 20, and so the 19 and the 30. They make an almost magic sequence with ultrafast AF and good optics.

In comparison the 20mm is like a stranded fish, peddled only by those who are stuck with it.

Am.

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Wow! Even though I am rarely a champion for the 20, it's still a fine lens for the price. Also think it is much better overall than the P14 (other than focus speed).

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mh2000
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Re: 2 Sigmas (19&30), or 20mm 1.7
In reply to grumpyolderman, May 25, 2013

grumpyolderman wrote:

The sigmas are really big, the pancake lest you slip you camera in a )large..) pocket, so it is really handy, and second hand should be no problem at all.

JL

The 30 isn't nearly as big as the 19, that's why I have my 30 paired with the Oly 17/2.8 (and have the p14 as well).

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Silvernitrate
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Re: 2 Sigmas (19&30), or 20mm 1.7
In reply to mh2000, May 25, 2013

mh2000 wrote:

grumpyolderman wrote:

The sigmas are really big, the pancake lest you slip you camera in a )large..) pocket, so it is really handy, and second hand should be no problem at all.

JL

The 30 isn't nearly as big as the 19, that's why I have my 30 paired with the Oly 17/2.8 (and have the p14 as well).

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LOl the 19mm is hardly that much bigger, your splitting hairs here, at least it comes with a hood

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Moti
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Re: 2 Sigmas (19&30), or 20mm 1.7
In reply to QuakeO, May 25, 2013

QuakeO wrote:.

Do you think the difference in quality between theses primes and my zooms is so small?

Absolutely. For your photographr as you have described, unless you need very good low light  performance, very thin DOF of produce very large prints, you'll notice hardly any difference if at all in photo quality.

The problem with today's classes is that they spend an inordinate amount of time on things I understand well: how a camera works, the relationship between shutter speed, aperture, and ISO, and other theoretical and technical elements. I would rather go out, experiment, and improve composition and decision making. My thinking was that a prime would force me to focus on important things.

The theoretical and technical element are part of basic and general knoledge that can help you to become a better photographer. Going out and practice is part of the learning curve. Believe me, a prime lens won't force you to concentrate on important things more than your zoom will do because nothing prevent you from fixing your zoom lens at the the same focal length as these primes and practice that way.

But it is your money and if you want primes and can efford them it is fine. After all, it is a hobby and we enjoy it and we buy stuff even if we dont need it. But if you think that primes sill improve your photography more than your zoom will do, you are making a mistake because at the end of the day, a good photographer should know how to force his lenses to do what he want instead of being "forced" by them.

Cheers

Moti

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