Leica entering m4/3?

Started May 23, 2013 | Discussions
walkaround
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Re: Health problems .......
In reply to tedolf, May 25, 2013

tedolf wrote:

You have an unhealthy fixation on gear.

... says Tedolf, with 15000 posts to his name, in a gear forum. Talk about projection!

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tedolf
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Yeah but the problem is .......
In reply to Dheorl, May 26, 2013

Dheorl wrote:

tedolf wrote:

Dheorl wrote:

tedolf wrote:

tedolf wrote:

dotborg wrote:

walkaround wrote:

tedolf wrote:

Leica has a licensing agreement with Panasonic.

Do you think any Licensee would sign a License Agreement allowing  the Licensor to compete with them in the same marketplace?

Yes, they already do. The D-Lux6 "competes" with the LX7 for example.

Panasonic makes the D-Lux 6.

Tedolph

Perhaps the mini M will be the same as the GX2.

simply re-brand an exsiting Panny u 4/3 camera with a red dot they would have done that with the GF-1.

The fact that they did not and have not since then (look at how much the G6 looks like an R9!) should tell you something about their Agreement with Panasonic.

Tedolph

Maybe they didn't think the GF-1 was worthy of the red dot.

I don't think it tells us anything about the agreement those two companies have tbh. Lets be fair, panny and Leica are hardly going after the same market segment.

Also considering the G6 really wasn't released that long ago, maybe this will just be a rebadged G6.

like I said,I just don't understand ahy eople can not accept reality.

Tedolph

Because sometimes dreaming can be a nice thing to do.

You have an unhealthy fixation on gear.

Really, is the camera you have not good enough for what you do?

Tedolph

It's plenty enough for most of what I do. Could do with a faster sync speed and I wouldn't mind about having the characteristics of a bigger sensor some of the time.

What can I say, I'm impressed by fine quality engineering. Leica is pretty much the epitomy of that when it comes to cameras (although yes, I realise if it is just a rebranded panasonic then it won't have that same usual Leica quality). Leica producing a camera that is afordable and usable day to day would be very appealing to me.

to get the quality engineering you gotta pay for it!

If they just rebadge the G6 with a red dot and double the price, what is the point (other than the cool red dot)?

Tedolpg

 tedolf's gear list:tedolf's gear list
Olympus PEN E-PL1 Olympus M.Zuiko Digital ED 9-18mm 1:4.0-5.6 Olympus M.Zuiko Digital 17mm 1:2.8 Pancake Olympus M.Zuiko Digital ED 40-150mm 1:4-5.6 Olympus M.Zuiko Digital 14-42mm 1:3.5-5.6 II R +10 more
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tedolf
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Hey, this is .......
In reply to walkaround, May 26, 2013

walkaround wrote:

tedolf wrote:

You have an unhealthy fixation on gear.

... says Tedolf, with 15000 posts to his name, in a gear forum. Talk about projection!

my gear:

Tedolph

 tedolf's gear list:tedolf's gear list
Olympus PEN E-PL1 Olympus M.Zuiko Digital ED 9-18mm 1:4.0-5.6 Olympus M.Zuiko Digital 17mm 1:2.8 Pancake Olympus M.Zuiko Digital ED 40-150mm 1:4-5.6 Olympus M.Zuiko Digital 14-42mm 1:3.5-5.6 II R +10 more
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Fazal Majid
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Re: hmmm
In reply to Ben C Davis, May 26, 2013

Ben C Davis wrote:

Fazal Majid wrote:

Leica is on record as saying m43 image quality is inadequate, they would not have made those statements if they had a m43 camera in development:

http://www.popsci.com/gadgets/article/2010-07/how-pair-high-quality-vintage-leica-lenses-your-micro-four-thirds-digicam

“One reason why we've decided not to move into Micro Four Thirds is that we have looked at the sensor size and realized that it cannot produce the image quality that we need. Therefore we decided to stick with the full format in addition to APS-C,” Enhardt continued. “It's all about the ratios.”

That was posted  "Posted 07.28.2010 at 2:45 pm"  all most 3 years ago.

I'm guessing Leica's development cycles are at least 2 years. The mini-M was most likely at the product planning stage already around that time, and they would not make such categorical statement about the alleged inadequacy of m43 if they were planning on bringing a camera to market a few years thence.

The Mini-M is going the be made in Germany, so it can't be a simple rebadge of the Panasonic GX1/GX2 (which would have a shorter product development time, of course).

It would also be strange to have a product in-between the M240/M-E and the X2 that has a smaller sensor than either.

My guess is a Sony RX1 competitor with a fixed AF lens, or a M-mount camera with an electronic rangefinder, Contax G1/G2 style.

-- hide signature --

Fazal Majid (http://www.majid.info)

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Dheorl
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Re: Yeah but the problem is .......
In reply to tedolf, May 26, 2013

tedolf wrote:

Dheorl wrote:

tedolf wrote:

Dheorl wrote:

tedolf wrote:

tedolf wrote:

dotborg wrote:

walkaround wrote:

tedolf wrote:

Leica has a licensing agreement with Panasonic.

Do you think any Licensee would sign a License Agreement allowing  the Licensor to compete with them in the same marketplace?

Yes, they already do. The D-Lux6 "competes" with the LX7 for example.

Panasonic makes the D-Lux 6.

Tedolph

Perhaps the mini M will be the same as the GX2.

simply re-brand an exsiting Panny u 4/3 camera with a red dot they would have done that with the GF-1.

The fact that they did not and have not since then (look at how much the G6 looks like an R9!) should tell you something about their Agreement with Panasonic.

Tedolph

Maybe they didn't think the GF-1 was worthy of the red dot.

I don't think it tells us anything about the agreement those two companies have tbh. Lets be fair, panny and Leica are hardly going after the same market segment.

Also considering the G6 really wasn't released that long ago, maybe this will just be a rebadged G6.

like I said,I just don't understand ahy eople can not accept reality.

Tedolph

Because sometimes dreaming can be a nice thing to do.

You have an unhealthy fixation on gear.

Really, is the camera you have not good enough for what you do?

Tedolph

It's plenty enough for most of what I do. Could do with a faster sync speed and I wouldn't mind about having the characteristics of a bigger sensor some of the time.

What can I say, I'm impressed by fine quality engineering. Leica is pretty much the epitomy of that when it comes to cameras (although yes, I realise if it is just a rebranded panasonic then it won't have that same usual Leica quality). Leica producing a camera that is afordable and usable day to day would be very appealing to me.

to get the quality engineering you gotta pay for it!

If they just rebadge the G6 with a red dot and double the price, what is the point (other than the cool red dot)?

Tedolpg

Yea, I wish it could be different though. As it is what I'm hoping for is an M camera without the rangefinder mechanism. Then it will be just as high quality (hopefully) and cheaper than the M-240.

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Dheorl
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Re: Hey, this is .......
In reply to tedolf, May 26, 2013

tedolf wrote:

walkaround wrote:

tedolf wrote:

You have an unhealthy fixation on gear.

... says Tedolf, with 15000 posts to his name, in a gear forum. Talk about projection!

my gear:

Tedolph

I'm not quite sure what thta is meant to demonstrate tbh. I have about that amount of gear (although alot in the way of flashes etc). Does that mean that your previous statement was wrong and I don't actually care to much about gear?

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tedolf
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Re: Yeah but the problem is .......
In reply to Dheorl, May 26, 2013

Dheorl wrote:

tedolf wrote:

Dheorl wrote:

tedolf wrote:

Dheorl wrote:

tedolf wrote:

tedolf wrote:

dotborg wrote:

walkaround wrote:

tedolf wrote:

Leica has a licensing agreement with Panasonic.

Do you think any Licensee would sign a License Agreement allowing  the Licensor to compete with them in the same marketplace?

Yes, they already do. The D-Lux6 "competes" with the LX7 for example.

Panasonic makes the D-Lux 6.

Tedolph

Perhaps the mini M will be the same as the GX2.

simply re-brand an exsiting Panny u 4/3 camera with a red dot they would have done that with the GF-1.

The fact that they did not and have not since then (look at how much the G6 looks like an R9!) should tell you something about their Agreement with Panasonic.

Tedolph

Maybe they didn't think the GF-1 was worthy of the red dot.

I don't think it tells us anything about the agreement those two companies have tbh. Lets be fair, panny and Leica are hardly going after the same market segment.

Also considering the G6 really wasn't released that long ago, maybe this will just be a rebadged G6.

like I said,I just don't understand ahy eople can not accept reality.

Tedolph

Because sometimes dreaming can be a nice thing to do.

You have an unhealthy fixation on gear.

Really, is the camera you have not good enough for what you do?

Tedolph

It's plenty enough for most of what I do. Could do with a faster sync speed and I wouldn't mind about having the characteristics of a bigger sensor some of the time.

What can I say, I'm impressed by fine quality engineering. Leica is pretty much the epitomy of that when it comes to cameras (although yes, I realise if it is just a rebranded panasonic then it won't have that same usual Leica quality). Leica producing a camera that is afordable and usable day to day would be very appealing to me.

to get the quality engineering you gotta pay for it!

If they just rebadge the G6 with a red dot and double the price, what is the point (other than the cool red dot)?

Tedolpg

Yea, I wish it could be different though. As it is what I'm hoping for is an M camera without the rangefinder mechanism. Then it will be just as high quality (hopefully) and cheaper than the M-240.

It will still be unafordable.

Leica will never again make an affordable "Leica caliber" camera, they did that once and it almost destroyed the company-Leica CL.

Outsold the M5 about 5 to 1.

Tedolph

 tedolf's gear list:tedolf's gear list
Olympus PEN E-PL1 Olympus M.Zuiko Digital ED 9-18mm 1:4.0-5.6 Olympus M.Zuiko Digital 17mm 1:2.8 Pancake Olympus M.Zuiko Digital ED 40-150mm 1:4-5.6 Olympus M.Zuiko Digital 14-42mm 1:3.5-5.6 II R +10 more
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tedolf
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Re: Hey, this is .......
In reply to Dheorl, May 26, 2013

Dheorl wrote:

tedolf wrote:

walkaround wrote:

tedolf wrote:

You have an unhealthy fixation on gear.

... says Tedolf, with 15000 posts to his name, in a gear forum. Talk about projection!

my gear:

Tedolph

I'm not quite sure what thta is meant to demonstrate tbh.

That I am not addicte to having the latest and greatest gear.

I have about that amount of gear (although alot in the way of flashes etc). Does that mean that your previous statement was wrong and I don't actually care to much about gear?

Actually at this point I am lost.

I was responding to someone else (Walkaround) with my gear photo's.

Tedolph

 tedolf's gear list:tedolf's gear list
Olympus PEN E-PL1 Olympus M.Zuiko Digital ED 9-18mm 1:4.0-5.6 Olympus M.Zuiko Digital 17mm 1:2.8 Pancake Olympus M.Zuiko Digital ED 40-150mm 1:4-5.6 Olympus M.Zuiko Digital 14-42mm 1:3.5-5.6 II R +10 more
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Dheorl
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Re: Yeah but the problem is .......
In reply to tedolf, May 26, 2013

tedolf wrote:

Dheorl wrote:

tedolf wrote:

Dheorl wrote:

tedolf wrote:

Dheorl wrote:

tedolf wrote:

tedolf wrote:

dotborg wrote:

walkaround wrote:

tedolf wrote:

Leica has a licensing agreement with Panasonic.

Do you think any Licensee would sign a License Agreement allowing  the Licensor to compete with them in the same marketplace?

Yes, they already do. The D-Lux6 "competes" with the LX7 for example.

Panasonic makes the D-Lux 6.

Tedolph

Perhaps the mini M will be the same as the GX2.

simply re-brand an exsiting Panny u 4/3 camera with a red dot they would have done that with the GF-1.

The fact that they did not and have not since then (look at how much the G6 looks like an R9!) should tell you something about their Agreement with Panasonic.

Tedolph

Maybe they didn't think the GF-1 was worthy of the red dot.

I don't think it tells us anything about the agreement those two companies have tbh. Lets be fair, panny and Leica are hardly going after the same market segment.

Also considering the G6 really wasn't released that long ago, maybe this will just be a rebadged G6.

like I said,I just don't understand ahy eople can not accept reality.

Tedolph

Because sometimes dreaming can be a nice thing to do.

You have an unhealthy fixation on gear.

Really, is the camera you have not good enough for what you do?

Tedolph

It's plenty enough for most of what I do. Could do with a faster sync speed and I wouldn't mind about having the characteristics of a bigger sensor some of the time.

What can I say, I'm impressed by fine quality engineering. Leica is pretty much the epitomy of that when it comes to cameras (although yes, I realise if it is just a rebranded panasonic then it won't have that same usual Leica quality). Leica producing a camera that is afordable and usable day to day would be very appealing to me.

to get the quality engineering you gotta pay for it!

If they just rebadge the G6 with a red dot and double the price, what is the point (other than the cool red dot)?

Tedolpg

Yea, I wish it could be different though. As it is what I'm hoping for is an M camera without the rangefinder mechanism. Then it will be just as high quality (hopefully) and cheaper than the M-240.

It will still be unafordable.

Leica will never again make an affordable "Leica caliber" camera, they did that once and it almost destroyed the company-Leica CL.

Outsold the M5 about 5 to 1.

Tedolph

It will at least be more affordale, to the point I might be able to justify buying it. I guess that means for me it will actually become affordable.

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Dheorl
Senior MemberPosts: 2,381Gear list
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Re: Hey, this is .......
In reply to tedolf, May 26, 2013

tedolf wrote:

Dheorl wrote:

tedolf wrote:

walkaround wrote:

tedolf wrote:

You have an unhealthy fixation on gear.

... says Tedolf, with 15000 posts to his name, in a gear forum. Talk about projection!

my gear:

Tedolph

I'm not quite sure what thta is meant to demonstrate tbh.

That I am not addicte to having the latest and greatest gear.

I have about that amount of gear (although alot in the way of flashes etc). Does that mean that your previous statement was wrong and I don't actually care to much about gear?

Actually at this point I am lost.

I was responding to someone else (Walkaround) with my gear photo's.

Tedolph

I was merely mentioning that you said I was too obsessed with gear earlier in the thread. Seeing as I have no more gear than you does that mean that infact I'm not too obsessed with gear?

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TrapperJohn
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More Leica glass, please?
In reply to Dheorl, May 26, 2013

So far, we have two: the PL25 1.4, and PL45M.

I have, and still use quite a bit, my 4/3 PL25, a superb, almost magical lens when used to it's strengths: portrait style shots in limited light. This isn't quite Leica M, but shots from it have elements of 'the Leica look'. I still think Leica glass is horribly priced, but at least I see why it's horribly priced now. There is something in the images their glass produces. Maybe pixie dust. But, it's definitely there.

I can only pray that Leica will participate in a few more M43 designs. They did so well with the PL 14-150, the only superzoom ever made that actually lived up to the promise.

As for a Leica M43 body... why bother? It would just be a GX2 with a red dot and a substantially higher price tag. The Digilux 3 was just a Panny L10 with a metallic body. Leica is already using the Oly EVF on it's compact cameras... at a substantially higher price.

Can't say that's worth paying a lot extra for, but their glass? That's worth paying extra for.

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tedolf
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So you would pay.......
In reply to Dheorl, May 26, 2013

Dheorl wrote:

tedolf wrote:

Dheorl wrote:

tedolf wrote:

Dheorl wrote:

tedolf wrote:

Dheorl wrote:

tedolf wrote:

tedolf wrote:

dotborg wrote:

walkaround wrote:

tedolf wrote:

Leica has a licensing agreement with Panasonic.

Do you think any Licensee would sign a License Agreement allowing  the Licensor to compete with them in the same marketplace?

Yes, they already do. The D-Lux6 "competes" with the LX7 for example.

Panasonic makes the D-Lux 6.

Tedolph

Perhaps the mini M will be the same as the GX2.

simply re-brand an exsiting Panny u 4/3 camera with a red dot they would have done that with the GF-1.

The fact that they did not and have not since then (look at how much the G6 looks like an R9!) should tell you something about their Agreement with Panasonic.

Tedolph

Maybe they didn't think the GF-1 was worthy of the red dot.

I don't think it tells us anything about the agreement those two companies have tbh. Lets be fair, panny and Leica are hardly going after the same market segment.

Also considering the G6 really wasn't released that long ago, maybe this will just be a rebadged G6.

like I said,I just don't understand ahy eople can not accept reality.

Tedolph

Because sometimes dreaming can be a nice thing to do.

You have an unhealthy fixation on gear.

Really, is the camera you have not good enough for what you do?

Tedolph

It's plenty enough for most of what I do. Could do with a faster sync speed and I wouldn't mind about having the characteristics of a bigger sensor some of the time.

What can I say, I'm impressed by fine quality engineering. Leica is pretty much the epitomy of that when it comes to cameras (although yes, I realise if it is just a rebranded panasonic then it won't have that same usual Leica quality). Leica producing a camera that is afordable and usable day to day would be very appealing to me.

to get the quality engineering you gotta pay for it!

If they just rebadge the G6 with a red dot and double the price, what is the point (other than the cool red dot)?

Tedolpg

Yea, I wish it could be different though. As it is what I'm hoping for is an M camera without the rangefinder mechanism. Then it will be just as high quality (hopefully) and cheaper than the M-240.

It will still be unafordable.

Leica will never again make an affordable "Leica caliber" camera, they did that once and it almost destroyed the company-Leica CL.

Outsold the M5 about 5 to 1.

Tedolph

It will at least be more affordale, to the point I might be able to justify buying it. I guess that means for me it will actually become affordable.

50% more?   100% more? for exactly the same Panasonic camera just with a red dot on it?

TEdolph

 tedolf's gear list:tedolf's gear list
Olympus PEN E-PL1 Olympus M.Zuiko Digital ED 9-18mm 1:4.0-5.6 Olympus M.Zuiko Digital 17mm 1:2.8 Pancake Olympus M.Zuiko Digital ED 40-150mm 1:4-5.6 Olympus M.Zuiko Digital 14-42mm 1:3.5-5.6 II R +10 more
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tedolf
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Re: Hey, this is .......
In reply to Dheorl, May 26, 2013

Dheorl wrote:

tedolf wrote:

Dheorl wrote:

tedolf wrote:

walkaround wrote:

tedolf wrote:

You have an unhealthy fixation on gear.

... says Tedolf, with 15000 posts to his name, in a gear forum. Talk about projection!

my gear:

Tedolph

I'm not quite sure what thta is meant to demonstrate tbh.

That I am not addicte to having the latest and greatest gear.

I have about that amount of gear (although alot in the way of flashes etc). Does that mean that your previous statement was wrong and I don't actually care to much about gear?

Actually at this point I am lost.

I was responding to someone else (Walkaround) with my gear photo's.

Tedolph

I was merely mentioning that you said I was too obsessed with gear earlier in the thread.

Did I say that?

Hmmm.......

Well if you are just looking for a G6 with a red dot on it and are willing to pay a premium for the same I would say that you are.

Seeing as I have no more gear than you does that mean that infact I'm not too obsessed with gear?

My point was not about the amount of gear (I also have three native u 4/3 lenses) but that most of that stuff in the photo was purchased very inexpensively.

That was the point......

that I am not enamoured by new/expensive gear.

Two of my lenses in that photo have red dots on them, but I got them becuse they are great lenses and the price was right irrespective of the color of the dots.

See, I put my own blue dots on my u 4/3 lenses:

so I really don't care what color the dots are.

Tedolph

 tedolf's gear list:tedolf's gear list
Olympus PEN E-PL1 Olympus M.Zuiko Digital ED 9-18mm 1:4.0-5.6 Olympus M.Zuiko Digital 17mm 1:2.8 Pancake Olympus M.Zuiko Digital ED 40-150mm 1:4-5.6 Olympus M.Zuiko Digital 14-42mm 1:3.5-5.6 II R +10 more
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Dheorl
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Re: So you would pay.......
In reply to tedolf, May 26, 2013

tedolf wrote:

Dheorl wrote:

tedolf wrote:

Dheorl wrote:

tedolf wrote:

Dheorl wrote:

tedolf wrote:

Dheorl wrote:

tedolf wrote:

tedolf wrote:

dotborg wrote:

walkaround wrote:

tedolf wrote:

Leica has a licensing agreement with Panasonic.

Do you think any Licensee would sign a License Agreement allowing  the Licensor to compete with them in the same marketplace?

Yes, they already do. The D-Lux6 "competes" with the LX7 for example.

Panasonic makes the D-Lux 6.

Tedolph

Perhaps the mini M will be the same as the GX2.

simply re-brand an exsiting Panny u 4/3 camera with a red dot they would have done that with the GF-1.

The fact that they did not and have not since then (look at how much the G6 looks like an R9!) should tell you something about their Agreement with Panasonic.

Tedolph

Maybe they didn't think the GF-1 was worthy of the red dot.

I don't think it tells us anything about the agreement those two companies have tbh. Lets be fair, panny and Leica are hardly going after the same market segment.

Also considering the G6 really wasn't released that long ago, maybe this will just be a rebadged G6.

like I said,I just don't understand ahy eople can not accept reality.

Tedolph

Because sometimes dreaming can be a nice thing to do.

You have an unhealthy fixation on gear.

Really, is the camera you have not good enough for what you do?

Tedolph

It's plenty enough for most of what I do. Could do with a faster sync speed and I wouldn't mind about having the characteristics of a bigger sensor some of the time.

What can I say, I'm impressed by fine quality engineering. Leica is pretty much the epitomy of that when it comes to cameras (although yes, I realise if it is just a rebranded panasonic then it won't have that same usual Leica quality). Leica producing a camera that is afordable and usable day to day would be very appealing to me.

to get the quality engineering you gotta pay for it!

If they just rebadge the G6 with a red dot and double the price, what is the point (other than the cool red dot)?

Tedolpg

Yea, I wish it could be different though. As it is what I'm hoping for is an M camera without the rangefinder mechanism. Then it will be just as high quality (hopefully) and cheaper than the M-240.

It will still be unafordable.

Leica will never again make an affordable "Leica caliber" camera, they did that once and it almost destroyed the company-Leica CL.

Outsold the M5 about 5 to 1.

Tedolph

It will at least be more affordale, to the point I might be able to justify buying it. I guess that means for me it will actually become affordable.

50% more?   100% more? for exactly the same Panasonic camera just with a red dot on it?

TEdolph

I was more reffering to the oossibility that it's just a M without the rangefinder part. In which case to me it would potentially be an affordable M.

Despite the better customer service etc that you supposidly get with the Leica copies of panasonic cameras I would never consider one of them reasonable value.

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Dheorl
Senior MemberPosts: 2,381Gear list
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Re: Hey, this is .......
In reply to tedolf, May 26, 2013

tedolf wrote:

Dheorl wrote:

tedolf wrote:

Dheorl wrote:

tedolf wrote:

walkaround wrote:

tedolf wrote:

You have an unhealthy fixation on gear.

... says Tedolf, with 15000 posts to his name, in a gear forum. Talk about projection!

my gear:

Tedolph

I'm not quite sure what thta is meant to demonstrate tbh.

That I am not addicte to having the latest and greatest gear.

I have about that amount of gear (although alot in the way of flashes etc). Does that mean that your previous statement was wrong and I don't actually care to much about gear?

Actually at this point I am lost.

I was responding to someone else (Walkaround) with my gear photo's.

Tedolph

I was merely mentioning that you said I was too obsessed with gear earlier in the thread.

Did I say that?

Hmmm.......

You did.

Well if you are just looking for a G6 with a red dot on it and are willing to pay a premium for the same I would say that you are.

I'm not (willing to pay a premium for a G6 with a red dot that is)

Seeing as I have no more gear than you does that mean that infact I'm not too obsessed with gear?

My point was not about the amount of gear (I also have three native u 4/3 lenses) but that most of that stuff in the photo was purchased very inexpensively.

That was the point......

that I am not enamoured by new/expensive gear.

I imagine however that you have probably put more time and effort into discovering, finding and buying that gear than people who simply go and order new native lenses.

Or does more time looking for gear =/= more obsessed with gear?

Two of my lenses in that photo have red dots on them, but I got them becuse they are great lenses and the price was right irrespective of the color of the dots.

See, I put my own blue dots on my u 4/3 lenses:

so I really don't care what color the dots are.

Tedolph

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