Leica Mini M

Started May 23, 2013 | Discussions
boarderphreak
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Re: Details
In reply to Ray1684, May 28, 2013

It'll be priced higher than the X2, but the exact specs remain to be seen.  If you believe some rumors, it'll be 2,450 Euros...  We'll see in a week! 

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bosjohn21
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Re: Something I know about the Mini M...
In reply to meagre offerings, May 28, 2013

meagre offerings wrote:

docvale wrote:

Leica is like Ferrari, or some super high-end audio companies: little production numbers, no-compromise concept, all numbers sold at the release on the market.

Other companies go for different strategies. Keeping the parallel with high-performance audio (another big passion of mine), I can state that if Panasonic would have produced nowadays for the first time the legendary Technics SL-1200 (a rather affordable turntable) it would have not sold at <$1k (such as just before being discontinued) but probably at 5x that price. But Panasonic made a design with an R&D investment that was predicted to be covered by millions of sales. And that is what has occurred: I'm speaking about the very best seller of the entire history of audio.

The main difference is between niche vs mass market. Leica belongs to the former group, and that is intrinsic to its nature. An affordable Leica is an oxymoron: they might gain some sales, but they would loose their niche-status and, with that, a chunk of customers.

an affordable leica isnt a oxymoron, its a certified market winner if it was what the market lacked.

lt would only gain customers, probably many many more than they have now, yes, it may lose a little of its niche reputation, although it would still have the M9s, the M240s and the MMs, plus all that lovely but very expensive glass, which will always be niche due to the high prices.

pc

Leica's annual output is miniscule compaird to the other camera companies and german labor is very expensive. I don't believe Leica prices their bread and butter cameras to be expensive for any other reason than the price reflecting the cost to make. No affordable Leica is not an oximoron but that begs the question what is affordable. Will the new camera be more expensive than other compairable offerings yes will it be worth more than other offerings. Certainally in build quality and lens performance it should be but electronics will probably be on a par with or not quite as good as.

If leica makes as I hope a camera  that will take the interchangable M lenses with an evf or lcdf with the apsc sensor I dont think it would eat into M sales, with a full frame sensor maybe but its the rangefinder view finder that attracts M buyers not just the lenses.

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docvale
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Re: Something I know about the Mini M...
In reply to bosjohn21, May 28, 2013

bosjohn21 wrote:

If leica makes as I hope a camera  that will take the interchangable M lenses with an evf or lcdf with the apsc sensor I dont think it would eat into M sales, with a full frame sensor maybe but its the rangefinder view finder that attracts M buyers not just the lenses.

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John aka bosjohn21

If the rumors would turn out to be true, you'd be disappointed. The product you are describing would be the best one. Instead, they're speaking of a X2 camera with a fixed zoom (and rather slow) lens. No integrated EVF and not high performance lens.

Where's the great value (on top of the Leica brand value) compared to a mirrorless system from Sony, Fuji, Panasonic or Olympus? And it'll cost twice as much as the most of the expensive zoom systems, with no upgrade flexibility...

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samhain
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Re: If it's not Full Frame....
In reply to rckirk, May 28, 2013

Leica Rumors is reporting that everything points to an APS-C based camera with a fixed zoom lens. This sounds like an X2 with a fixed zoom lens.  I hope that is not the case.  If it is. then Leica will have missed the mark and lost the opportunity to bring me in as a new user.


An aps-c zoom!?!! That would suck. I can visualize that being the most hated Leica ever. I mean, why bother- there's already the boring ol' c-lux/v-lux/d-lux cameras out there(no offense to lux owners, but small sensor zoom cameras does not capture the essence of what Leica is imo). Hopefully it's all deliberate misinformation to throw everyone off track

I was really hoping for a FF digital version of the Leica CM or minilux with the fixed 40mm f2.4(or even a 50/2) with a plain old OVF. Now that would be a camera to get excited about! Priced at $2000 with fast af & good high iso, it would be an RX-1/x100 killer.
Or maybe a monochrome version FF digital CM!
(Doesn't hurt to dream)

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dougjgreen1
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It's all about the glass.....
In reply to docvale, May 28, 2013

Leica lenses really are, generally speaking - worth the prices charged for them relative to the competition.  The cameras themselves have not been, for a long time.  But as liong as Leica is the only game in town where you can get a sensor that uses the whole image circle of Leica lenses, some folks will pay the freight to buy the cameras.

But what if Cosina/Voigtlander teamed with Sony, to build a Leica-mount digital camera with a state of the art full frame sensor along the lines of a Bessa R3, and sold the thing for $1500 or so?  Leica's sales of M9s and such would drop like a stone - but their lens sales would go up.

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docvale
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Re: It's all about the glass.....
In reply to dougjgreen1, May 29, 2013

dougjgreen1 wrote:

But what if Cosina/Voigtlander teamed with Sony, to build a Leica-mount digital camera with a state of the art full frame sensor along the lines of a Bessa R3, and sold the thing for $1500 or so?  Leica's sales of M9s and such would drop like a stone - but their lens sales would go up.

Sony is though to build a FF Nex camera, and I guess Fuji will follow that lead. Even if not native M-mount (they'd probably wouldn't get a licence), they would mount M lenses with an adapter...

They'd be way more than $1500, but even at $3k they could be dangerous for the Leica body sales.

If they did it, Leica would probably release a less expensive M-camera body, probably with no rangefinder. But we are at a very speculative point here! What is sure is that the APS-C camera crowd is now huge and affordable brands are doing extremely good in that segment. Competition is tough.

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Dr. Ulrich  Rohde
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Re: Leica Mini M > Here it is !
In reply to Ray1684, May 29, 2013
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Nich0las
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Re: Leica Mini M > Here it is !
In reply to Dr. Ulrich Rohde, May 29, 2013

Dr. Ulrich Rohde wrote:

http://the.me/heres-the-evil-aps-c-leica-mini-m/

Here it is !

As the poster on that site mentioned, it seems strange they would release it at $1000 more than an X2 with a larger, slower, fixed lens. Hopefully this is a fake and they are releasing instead a full-frame, interchangeable lens body.

If they do release something like that as mentioned, it would be a no-brainer to go for the highly regarded Sony RX-1 instead, with its amazing sensor and sharp f2 35mm fixed lens.

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Zvonimir Tosic
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Doesn't look right ..something's odd
In reply to Dr. Ulrich Rohde, May 29, 2013

Dr. Ulrich Rohde wrote:

http://the.me/heres-the-evil-aps-c-leica-mini-m/

Here it is !

A number on lens barrel clearly shows 70.

Info on lens thread show 16-46 or something like that.

Doesn't match. Looks odd.

And the lens has an aligning dot on it, like the camera has a mount.

In any case, I think we can have possible options for the Mini-M, in order of plausibility:

  1. An M mount, FF M camera with an EVF only (no rangefinder assembly, or, cheaper M)
  2. An M-style, fixed lens FF camera (like Sony RX1)
  3. An X2 type camera system with a new mount and APS-C lenses?
  4. An X2 type camera with a fixed zoom lens.
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Zvonimir Tosic
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— Edward Steichen

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dougjgreen1
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Pffftt: Rolex cannot carry Patek Phillippe's Jock
In reply to Jim Radcliffe, May 29, 2013

Not to mention Breguet, Vacheron Constantin, Jaeger LeCoultre, Audemars Piguet, etc, etc, etc.

The point being that there is upscale, and there is UPSCALE.  From way down below, things look entirely different than they do from up above.

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dougjgreen1
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Sure that wasn't John Cameron Swayze's Timex?
In reply to Joe Pineapples, May 29, 2013

Which, after all, took a licking and kept on ticking.  And cost about $12 at the time.

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miro3
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Re: Leica Mini M > Here it is !
In reply to Nich0las, May 29, 2013

Nich0las wrote:

Dr. Ulrich Rohde wrote:

http://the.me/heres-the-evil-aps-c-leica-mini-m/

Here it is !

As the poster on that site mentioned, it seems strange they would release it at $1000 more than an X2 with a larger, slower, fixed lens. Hopefully this is a fake and they are releasing instead a full-frame, interchangeable lens body.

If they do release something like that as mentioned, it would be a no-brainer to go for the highly regarded Sony RX-1 instead, with its amazing sensor and sharp f2 35mm fixed lens.

yes!

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JacquesBalthazar
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Re: Doesn't look right ..something's odd
In reply to Zvonimir Tosic, May 29, 2013

Zvonimir Tosic wrote:

Dr. Ulrich Rohde wrote:

http://the.me/heres-the-evil-aps-c-leica-mini-m/

Here it is !

A number on lens barrel clearly shows 70.

Info on lens thread show 16-46 or something like that.

Doesn't match. Looks odd.

And the lens has an aligning dot on it, like the camera has a mount.

The little white dot is the distance scale dot, not a mount alignment dot. Assuming pic not fake and not doctored. We can still hope this ipad "screen grab" is not genuine.

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GXRuser
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Re: It's all about the glass.....
In reply to dougjgreen1, May 30, 2013

dougjgreen1 wrote:

Leica lenses really are, generally speaking - worth the prices charged for them relative to the competition.  The cameras themselves have not been, for a long time.  But as liong as Leica is the only game in town where you can get a sensor that uses the whole image circle of Leica lenses, some folks will pay the freight to buy the cameras.

But what if Cosina/Voigtlander teamed with Sony, to build a Leica-mount digital camera with a state of the art full frame sensor along the lines of a Bessa R3, and sold the thing for $1500 or so?  Leica's sales of M9s and such would drop like a stone - but their lens sales would go up.

C/V already did this when they manufactured the Epson RD1

Why C/V has not released their own updated version of the Epson RD1 is a real mystery.

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dougjgreen1
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It's all about the glass.....and the crop factor
In reply to GXRuser, May 30, 2013

GXRuser wrote:

dougjgreen1 wrote:

Leica lenses really are, generally speaking - worth the prices charged for them relative to the competition.  The cameras themselves have not been, for a long time.  But as liong as Leica is the only game in town where you can get a sensor that uses the whole image circle of Leica lenses, some folks will pay the freight to buy the cameras.

But what if Cosina/Voigtlander teamed with Sony, to build a Leica-mount digital camera with a state of the art full frame sensor along the lines of a Bessa R3, and sold the thing for $1500 or so?  Leica's sales of M9s and such would drop like a stone - but their lens sales would go up.

C/V already did this when they manufactured the Epson RD1

Why C/V has not released their own updated version of the Epson RD1 is a real mystery.

Downfall of the Epson RD1 was the crop sensor.  Te shame was, with respect toLeica's great wide angle lenses (as well as Cosina's for that matter) was that the RD1 wasted much of their goodness outside of the sensor frame.

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love_them_all
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Re: It's all about the glass.....
In reply to GXRuser, May 31, 2013

GXRuser wrote:

dougjgreen1 wrote:

Leica lenses really are, generally speaking - worth the prices charged for them relative to the competition.  The cameras themselves have not been, for a long time.  But as liong as Leica is the only game in town where you can get a sensor that uses the whole image circle of Leica lenses, some folks will pay the freight to buy the cameras.

But what if Cosina/Voigtlander teamed with Sony, to build a Leica-mount digital camera with a state of the art full frame sensor along the lines of a Bessa R3, and sold the thing for $1500 or so?  Leica's sales of M9s and such would drop like a stone - but their lens sales would go up.

C/V already did this when they manufactured the Epson RD1

Why C/V has not released their own updated version of the Epson RD1 is a real mystery.

Epson is the manufacturer per se. They supplied everything other than the body and the RF, and the shutter. Cosina is not / was not a digital camera manufacturer. Epson kind of exited the digital camera business, therefore no more update since the RD1s (the last model?).

From the image samples the Epson was very noisy, and the resolution was already too low when it came out.

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Johnnhoj
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Re: Leica Mini M
In reply to Ray1684, May 31, 2013

I was going to buy a D800 to compliment my X2 but now I am waiting until the 11th. I am hoping what we have seen so far is a hoax. I want to see a FF M mount probably non range finder but where I can use my X2 EVF. The price should under £3,200.

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Lumixdude
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Re: Leica Mini M
In reply to Johnnhoj, Jun 1, 2013

An X2 type camera with a fixed zoom lens is what I want. I love the idea of APS-C compacts, but being stuck with a prime lens isn't a good option. If they allow some zoom for framing purposes it will open up another market segment, it just needs a faster lens. F/3.5 is a bit slow considering some of the kit lenses you get on other cameras. If it were F/2 I'd sell my LX7 tomorrow and upgrade.

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M Dennis Fern
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Re: Leica Mini M > Here it is !
In reply to Dr. Ulrich Rohde, Jun 1, 2013

I don't know whether others have pointed this discrepency out, but a close look at the photos of the two "Mini" reveals that they are not the same bodies.  The smaller one (supposedly in the distance) has a different top than the larger (closer) one and the right hand knob on the two cameras has different markings.  Either there are two different Minis  or the photo circulating on the rumor sites is a fake.  It's obviously (and happily) a hoax.   I join the crowd on this thread, hoping for a mirrorless FF sensor which accepts M mount lenses at a $3-4K price point.  I wouldn't be interested in an APC-C with a fixed lens unless it is competitively priced with Nikon's, Sony's and Ricoh's fine offerings in this segment.  A slow zoom would also leave me cold.

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M Dennis Fern
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Re: Leica Mini M > Here it is !
In reply to M Dennis Fern, Jun 1, 2013

A second point: What is the point of Leica releasing a second new camera when it can't meet reasonably anticipated demand for the M?  Does Leica want to have orders for two cameras no one can realistically buy (even if they can and are willing to pay the high prices)?  Does anyone have an explanation for Leica's strategic plan?

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