A few observations.

Started 11 months ago | Discussions
happysnapper64
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Re: A few observations.
In reply to Lance B, 11 months ago

Lance B wrote:

happysnapper64 wrote:

Richard the picture man wrote:

Lance B wrote:

Richard the picture man wrote:

I look, I read, but mostly I listen.

One thing I read once (in a Readers Digest I think) was that of all interchangeable lens cameras sold, over 70% were used for up to two months after purchase (probably for a holiday trip) and never used again.

From reading the forums here, those people asking for advice nearly always ask for advice regarding Nikon v Canon. It would seem that other brands do not exist.

Several of these people give me the impression that they truly believe spending more money = taking better pictures. Moreover some of the repliers tend to foster and encourage that belief.

I also get the impression that many newcomers (not all ) have a marked disinclination to actually start their hobby at the beginning. Very few of them want to truly learn about things like  depth of field, perspective compression, Hyperfocal distance, panning, pre focusing etc. It seems as if they want to buy a camera, set it to scene mode and fire away. No wonder they get bored after just a few months.

There are people on this site and of course other sites, giving out advice that is incorrect and misleading. They do not know how little they really know.

I listen to other people, sometimes in a camera club situation prattling on about how superior their camera is. Only to find that six months later they have left photography for some other hobby.

As someone who has derived enormous pleasure from photography and would wish the same pleasure to all newcomers, it saddens me that we photographers have allowed this situation to develop. Years ago we had the desire and discipline to learn  but not the superb equipment we have now. These days we have the super equipment but very few people with the desire and discipline to make the effort and learn.

Because when we were younger back in the film days, you actually had to work at just about everything to make something worthwhile, whether it be photography, writing (no computers), repairing cars or actually making something.

Now, we are told by companies and taught in schools that they can do everything for us and look after us. However, when we get these new fangled gadgets, we find that they can't do everything for us and we actually have still to do much ourselves, ie come up with ideas to take photos, have some knowledge and have some input and that makes it all too hard for many and they become disillusioned with their gadget and move on to something easier, like Facebook, Twitter, point and shoot cameras, making sure they hip, ie no substance, just the illusion of looking good.

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Regards - Richard
Happy guy with a K5
N.B. All my Images, even the bad ones, are Protected by Copyright

Yes, I think you are spot on Lance, work is the bit that is missing.

Thing is many people do not realize that work can be fun and very satisfying, and after all fun and satisfaction are what photography is all about.

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Regards - Richard
Happy guy with a K5
N.B. All my Images, even the bad ones, are Protected by Copyright

I simply loved practicing when I played golf. Many said practicing was boring, & they only played for fun, yet got really angry & frustrated when they played badly, yet still stubornly refused to do anything about it. I practiced very hard with physical limitations, & achieved a decent handicap. I have tried to adopt the same attitude to photography. I believe we only get out of it what we are prepaired to put in to it.

I was the same when I played golf.

You may remember the anecdote about Gary Player playing in a tournament where he sunk a shot out of the bunker and a spectator was alleged to have snorted, "Gees, you're lucky", to which Gary Player responded, "Yeah, the more I practice, the luckier I get".

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lee uk.
There are old pilots, & there are bold pilots, but there are no old bold pilots.

hey Lance. Yes, I remember that quote. The point about practice is to practice the right things. I paid for lessons with a guy I knew & trusted. Some of the guys would seek out free advice from blokes that couldn't break 100. Their choice. I was always happy to play well shoot a decent score, & if I finished 20th in a medal it was irrelevant to my enjoyment of the round. I play, I learn, I move on & learn some more [hopefully]

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lee uk.
There are old pilots, & there are bold pilots, but there are no old bold pilots.

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Lance B
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Re: A few observations.
In reply to happysnapper64, 11 months ago

happysnapper64 wrote:

Lance B wrote:


Yes, I think you are spot on Lance, work is the bit that is missing.

Thing is many people do not realize that work can be fun and very satisfying, and after all fun and satisfaction are what photography is all about.

-- hide signature --

Regards - Richard
Happy guy with a K5
N.B. All my Images, even the bad ones, are Protected by Copyright

I simply loved practicing when I played golf. Many said practicing was boring, & they only played for fun, yet got really angry & frustrated when they played badly, yet still stubornly refused to do anything about it. I practiced very hard with physical limitations, & achieved a decent handicap. I have tried to adopt the same attitude to photography. I believe we only get out of it what we are prepaired to put in to it.

I was the same when I played golf.

You may remember the anecdote about Gary Player playing in a tournament where he sunk a shot out of the bunker and a spectator was alleged to have snorted, "Gees, you're lucky", to which Gary Player responded, "Yeah, the more I practice, the luckier I get".

-- hide signature --

lee uk.
There are old pilots, & there are bold pilots, but there are no old bold pilots.

hey Lance. Yes, I remember that quote. The point about practice is to practice the right things. I paid for lessons with a guy I knew & trusted. Some of the guys would seek out free advice from blokes that couldn't break 100. Their choice. I was always happy to play well shoot a decent score, & if I finished 20th in a medal it was irrelevant to my enjoyment of the round. I play, I learn, I move on & learn some more [hopefully]

I'll be in the UK next month, possibly up your way going to the Lakes district and then to Scotland. Any suggestions of beautiful scenery, lovely UK villages, churches, cathedrals and castle etc?

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lee uk.
There are old pilots, & there are bold pilots, but there are no old bold pilots.

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happysnapper64
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Re: A few observations.
In reply to Lance B, 11 months ago

Lance B wrote:

happysnapper64 wrote:

Lance B wrote:


Yes, I think you are spot on Lance, work is the bit that is missing.

Thing is many people do not realize that work can be fun and very satisfying, and after all fun and satisfaction are what photography is all about.

-- hide signature --

Regards - Richard
Happy guy with a K5
N.B. All my Images, even the bad ones, are Protected by Copyright

I simply loved practicing when I played golf. Many said practicing was boring, & they only played for fun, yet got really angry & frustrated when they played badly, yet still stubornly refused to do anything about it. I practiced very hard with physical limitations, & achieved a decent handicap. I have tried to adopt the same attitude to photography. I believe we only get out of it what we are prepaired to put in to it.

I was the same when I played golf.

You may remember the anecdote about Gary Player playing in a tournament where he sunk a shot out of the bunker and a spectator was alleged to have snorted, "Gees, you're lucky", to which Gary Player responded, "Yeah, the more I practice, the luckier I get".

-- hide signature --

lee uk.
There are old pilots, & there are bold pilots, but there are no old bold pilots.

hey Lance. Yes, I remember that quote. The point about practice is to practice the right things. I paid for lessons with a guy I knew & trusted. Some of the guys would seek out free advice from blokes that couldn't break 100. Their choice. I was always happy to play well shoot a decent score, & if I finished 20th in a medal it was irrelevant to my enjoyment of the round. I play, I learn, I move on & learn some more [hopefully]

I'll be in the UK next month, possibly up your way going to the Lakes district and then to Scotland. Any suggestions of beautiful scenery, lovely UK villages, churches, cathedrals and castle etc?

-- hide signature --

lee uk.
There are old pilots, & there are bold pilots, but there are no old bold pilots.

Best I could suggest is to look up "The National Trust". They have hundreds of properties that are of national & historic value, with gardens etc. Go online & see what is in that area. Hope it helps.

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lee uk.
There are old pilots, & there are bold pilots, but there are no old bold pilots.

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SuvoMitra
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Re: A few observations.
In reply to Lance B, 11 months ago

In the Lake District, walk around Buttermere you like level walks. If you are happy to gain 500-750 metres in height, climb Place Fell from Patterdale and look across Ullswater to the Helvellyn range. Alternatively, walk up Catbells from Keswick, or carry on around do the Newlands round walk if you are fit and have the day to hand.

All these are photogenic in different ways depending on the weather and the time of day.

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Daisy AU
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Re: A few observations.
In reply to Richard the picture man, 11 months ago

Richard the picture man wrote:

I look, I read, but mostly I listen.

One thing I read once (in a Readers Digest I think) was that of all interchangeable lens cameras sold, over 70% were used for up to two months after purchase (probably for a holiday trip) and never used again.

From reading the forums here, those people asking for advice nearly always ask for advice regarding Nikon v Canon. It would seem that other brands do not exist.

Several of these people give me the impression that they truly believe spending more money = taking better pictures. Moreover some of the repliers tend to foster and encourage that belief.

I also get the impression that many newcomers (not all ) have a marked disinclination to actually start their hobby at the beginning. Very few of them want to truly learn about things like  depth of field, perspective compression, Hyperfocal distance, panning, pre focusing etc. It seems as if they want to buy a camera, set it to scene mode and fire away. No wonder they get bored after just a few months.

There are people on this site and of course other sites, giving out advice that is incorrect and misleading. They do not know how little they really know. It would seem that they have not even read the original post and certainly do not understand the original question.

I listen to other people, sometimes in a camera club situation prattling on about how superior their camera is. Only to find that one year later they have left photography for some other hobby.

As someone who has derived enormous pleasure from photography and would wish the same pleasure to all newcomers, it saddens me that we photographers have allowed this situation to develop. Years ago we had the desire and discipline to learn  but not the superb equipment we have now. These days we have the super equipment but very few people with the desire and discipline to make the effort and learn.

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Regards - Richard
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N.B. All my Images, even the bad ones, are Protected by Copyright

Good thoughts, thanks.  I'm fairly new to photography, although I'm 54.  Everything I have learnt so far about photography over the last 2 years, has been out of my own accord, no formal training, no internet course, etc.  I have read countless books, reviews, articles, etc. and I have very much enjoyed it.

What has surprised me most since participating in this forum, is the impatience displayed by some. Maybe because those people are too young or couldn't care less, except being 'right'. Additionally, some lack the understanding that for some people, photography will never become their livelihood (because they have a different career) and it's just a hobby, which should be perfectly acceptable.

From my observation, many members have incredible technical knowledge, however, in my opinion, quite a few lack 'people skills' when participating in forums like this.  The 'tone' of their comments is in many occasions quite harsh, arrogant and off-putting.  It becomes very much a "one-upmanship" situation ... and that is what saddens me.

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calterg
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Re: Why would you care?
In reply to Richard the picture man, 11 months ago

Bravo, guys.

If only responses to debate and criticism can be this civil and understanding more often;

the internet forums will be much nicer places to hang out.

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Richard the picture man
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Re: A few observations.
In reply to Daisy AU, 11 months ago

Good thoughts, thanks.  I'm fairly new to photography, although I'm 54.  Everything I have learnt so far about photography over the last 2 years, has been out of my own accord, no formal training, no internet course, etc.  I have read countless books, reviews, articles, etc. and I have very much enjoyed it.

What has surprised me most since participating in this forum, is the impatience displayed by some. Maybe because those people are too young or couldn't care less, except being 'right'. Additionally, some lack the understanding that for some people, photography will never become their livelihood (because they have a different career) and it's just a hobby, which should be perfectly acceptable.

From my observation, many members have incredible technical knowledge, however, in my opinion, quite a few lack 'people skills' when participating in forums like this.  The 'tone' of their comments is in many occasions quite harsh, arrogant and off-putting.  It becomes very much a "one-upmanship" situation ... and that is what saddens me.

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Daisy AU - Brisbane
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ney_images/

Thank you Daisy, it is refreshing to know there are others, who see things the same way as I do.  There is no doubt about the amazing spread of photographic knowledge on this site. There is also no doubt  about the amazing lack of good manners and thoughtlessness exhibited by some individuals. Thankfully they are very much a tiny minority,but perhaps you have heard the saying "Empty kettles make the most noise", however the vast majority of people on dpreview are thoughtful and very helpful.

When things go of course, it is nearly always through over enthusiasm for the hobby they have chosen and the gear they own. There is no problem in that, as far as I am concerned.

Just had a quick look at your flickr account. They look like interesting pictures, and I will go and have another look later, when I have more time to enjoy them.

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Regards - Richard
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Richard the picture man
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Re: Why would you care?
In reply to calterg, 11 months ago

calterg wrote:

Bravo, guys.

If only responses to debate and criticism can be this civil and understanding more often;

the internet forums will be much nicer places to hang out.

Thanks for the post caltera,

Civility and politeness only require a little forethought and of course cost nothing.  Most people do make the effort, but a few perhaps have never been shown how to make the effort.

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Richard the picture man
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Re: A few observations.
In reply to happysnapper64, 11 months ago

happysnapper64 wrote:

The behaviour you describe is not restricted to photography. During my golfing days, now long gone, many would buy expensive equipment in the belief it would make them better golfers. Few took lessons, & many of those that did, gave them up if they did not become club champion after 3 lessons. All blamed the clubs & the lessons, despite the fact they never hit a practice ball in their lives. We all want instant success, but it just doesn't happen like that. Even lots of practice won't guarantee success, it will only make us as good as we can possibly be. In a way, that is success isn't it?

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lee uk.
There are old pilots, & there are bold pilots, but there are no old bold pilots.

Yes Lee, I reckon that is success.

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calterg
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Re: Why would you care?
In reply to Richard the picture man, 11 months ago

Richard the picture man wrote:

calterg wrote:

Bravo, guys.

If only responses to debate and criticism can be this civil and understanding more often;

the internet forums will be much nicer places to hang out.

Thanks for the post caltera,

Civility and politeness only require a little forethought and of course cost nothing.  Most people do make the effort, but a few perhaps have never been shown how to make the effort.

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Regards - Richard
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On the contrary, Richard; choosing to be civil has a high cost, which is the taming of one's ego, a price all too few are willing to pay.

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Richard the picture man
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Re: A few observations.
In reply to gfspencer, 11 months ago

gfspencer wrote:

Richard the picture man wrote:

As someone who has derived enormous pleasure from photography and would wish the same pleasure to all newcomers, it saddens me that we photographers have allowed this situation to develop. Years ago we had the desire and discipline to learn  but not the superb equipment we have now. These days we have the super equipment but very few people with the desire and discipline to make the effort and learn.

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Regards - Richard
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N.B. All my Images, even the bad ones, are Protected by Copyright

Why are you saddened?  What situation have you - as a photographer - allowed to develop?  You are blameless.  You didn't cause this situation.

People buy cameras and lenses and gear.  They take pictures.  Some stick with taking pictures.  Some move on to other hobbies.  It's no big deal.  It has been like that since you could buy cameras.  "Back in the day" people spent their money on cheap Brownie cameras (followed by Polaroid cameras).  Now they buy a Rebel.  (Not that a Rebel is a cheap camera.  It is just cheaper than a 5DIII.)  In fact I'm glad that there are people out there buying cameras.  The more the merrier.   It keeps the camera companies in business.

I do agree that people in this day and age aren't going to take much time to learn a craft.  I can't do anything about that.  Maybe they will continue to take pictures and get better.  If not they move on to something else.  (I smile when people complain that a camera does not have enough or fast enough focus points.  I had to manually focus my Nikon FM and I still got pictures of an airplane in flight or my son playing soccer.)

I also agree with you that there are people on this forum giving poor advice but that happens on any forum.  The bad advice givers generally get weeded out or called out.  That's the way forums work.

Gf, thanks for the reply, you are right I cannot be held responsible, but my observation is that maybe we are all a little bit responsible.  Be it the person at the camera club with a top of the range Nikon who looks down on or talks in a condescending way to a guy/gal with a cheap bridge camera, or a salesperson pushing a particular brand so that he can earn a little more commission or someone giving a wrong answer to a posted question. All of these contribute to people drifting away from the hobby.

Re.   In fact I'm glad that there are people out there buying cameras.  The more the merrier.   It keeps the camera companies in business.                                                                     Yes, they all help keep the price down and keep companies in business. However, if more of those buying cameras stayed in the hobby for longer, they would continue to buy gear and sales would go up.

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Richard the picture man
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Re: A few observations.
In reply to Shalom2006, 11 months ago

Shalom2006 wrote:

I agree totally with you.

Slightly off topic, I used to be a radio ham & remember the guys who would spend thousands on equipment only to sell it six months later when they failed the tests required! I built some gear myself & listening on the bands to learn about the hobby and when I passed the tests spent a year improving my morse code and knowledge of shortwave before splashing out on 'real' gear.

Also I remember the so called 'experts' giving out duff info. It's funny, but hobbies attract all types of people

-

Best Regards
Steven
Chigwell, UK

Thank you Steven.

For most people photography is a hobby, in my opinion the best hobby ever. However, some people feel the need to turn it into something else that is more serious and complicated. Even sometimes to get angry about.  Heck, taking pictures is  paid work for me and I never see the need to get angry. In fact my work comes second to my family and is followed closely by my hobby - photography.

Ha ha, now here`s a thought, perhaps I should get out and have a life outside of cameras.  Perhaps I am just a bore. No, perish the thought.

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jtan163
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Re: A few observations.
In reply to Richard the picture man, 11 months ago

Richard the picture man wrote:

I look, I read, but mostly I listen.

One thing I read once (in a Readers Digest I think) was that of all interchangeable lens cameras sold, over 70% were used for up to two months after purchase (probably for a holiday trip) and never used again.

From reading the forums here, those people asking for advice nearly always ask for advice regarding Nikon v Canon. It would seem that other brands do not exist.

Several of these people give me the impression that they truly believe spending more money = taking better pictures. Moreover some of the repliers tend to foster and encourage that belief.

I also get the impression that many newcomers (not all ) have a marked disinclination to actually start their hobby at the beginning. Very few of them want to truly learn about things like  depth of field, perspective compression, Hyperfocal distance, panning, pre focusing etc. It seems as if they want to buy a camera, set it to scene mode and fire away. No wonder they get bored after just a few months.

I think the problem is there are two kinds of newcomers who are buying ILCs.

Some are people who are interested in photogrpahy per se. And they will I think want to learn the theory, once they know that there is theory to be learned (if they aren;t already aware there is theory to be learned).

But there is another class of user, like my mother, who don't want to be photographers per se.

They want to take snapshots, for want a of a better word, but for some reason their phone camera or more rarely these days there P&S won't let them.

Maybe they it's too dark in the nightclub or at the birthday party, maybe shutter lag when little jimmy kicks his goal, means they never get the shot they want.

I rather suspect that most people who buy ILCs are in the second class.

They are looking for a solution to a aproblem, not a hobby or a past time.

So they spend their money and they get there entry level DLSR or mirrorless camera and it either does live up to their expectations but it too big and bulky for them to bother carrying, so they revert back to  their P&S or phone living with whatever problem they had before.

Or worse it does not solve their problem (e.g. that f/3.5 kit lens does not help in the dark nightclub or the non stabilised 300mm lens does not work well handheld, so little jimmy is always blurry - on a $600 camera no less!!!) so they leave their new ILC at home and no longer trust camera salesman who sold them a camera that will do the job, but not the lens and was not going to lose a sale by telling them the unpalatable truth that they needed a lens as expensive as the camera to really do what they wanted.

There are people on this site and of course other sites, giving out advice that is incorrect and misleading. They do not know how little they really know. It would seem that they have not even read the original post and certainly do not understand the original question.

I listen to other people, sometimes in a camera club situation prattling on about how superior their camera is. Only to find that one year later they have left photography for some other hobby.

As someone who has derived enormous pleasure from photography and would wish the same pleasure to all newcomers, it saddens me that we photographers have allowed this situation to develop. Years ago we had the desire and discipline to learn  but not the superb equipment we have now. These days we have the super equipment but very few people with the desire and discipline to make the effort and learn.

It's not us. Well maybe a little bit, like you said bad advice etc.

But mainly I think that people simply don't value and in fact in many cases can't tell the difference between a good image and a bad one. And are happy enough with a bad one, if having a good one means they have to carry a "big" camera AND learn to use it.

For a lot of people it is the product at the end, not the process of getting their.
And if the process is too hard, they'll live with a crappy  product.

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zodiacfml
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Re: A few observations.
In reply to Richard the picture man, 11 months ago

Not surprising and nothing I disagree with.  What happened was, photography came to the masses and serious gear were purchased by casual shooters.  DSLR makers made money and competition got seriou.

A Nikon D3200 or a micro 4\3s has plenty of image quality compared to cameras just 4 years ago. Years ago, I'm quite annoyed with DSLR wielding people with clearly no idea with photography then realized they were quite we need for innovation and lower prices.

Richard the picture man wrote:

I look, I read, but mostly I listen.

One thing I read once (in a Readers Digest I think) was that of all interchangeable lens cameras sold, over 70% were used for up to two months after purchase (probably for a holiday trip) and never used again.

From reading the forums here, those people asking for advice nearly always ask for advice regarding Nikon v Canon. It would seem that other brands do not exist.

Several of these people give me the impression that they truly believe spending more money = taking better pictures. Moreover some of the repliers tend to foster and encourage that belief.

I also get the impression that many newcomers (not all ) have a marked disinclination to actually start their hobby at the beginning. Very few of them want to truly learn about things like  depth of field, perspective compression, Hyperfocal distance, panning, pre focusing etc. It seems as if they want to buy a camera, set it to scene mode and fire away. No wonder they get bored after just a few months.

There are people on this site and of course other sites, giving out advice that is incorrect and misleading. They do not know how little they really know. It would seem that they have not even read the original post and certainly do not understand the original question.

I listen to other people, sometimes in a camera club situation prattling on about how superior their camera is. Only to find that one year later they have left photography for some other hobby.

As someone who has derived enormous pleasure from photography and would wish the same pleasure to all newcomers, it saddens me that we photographers have allowed this situation to develop. Years ago we had the desire and discipline to learn  but not the superb equipment we have now. These days we have the super equipment but very few people with the desire and discipline to make the effort and learn.

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Regards - Richard
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happysnapper64
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Re: A few observations.
In reply to Daisy AU, 11 months ago

Daisy AU wrote:

Richard the picture man wrote:

I look, I read, but mostly I listen.

One thing I read once (in a Readers Digest I think) was that of all interchangeable lens cameras sold, over 70% were used for up to two months after purchase (probably for a holiday trip) and never used again.

From reading the forums here, those people asking for advice nearly always ask for advice regarding Nikon v Canon. It would seem that other brands do not exist.

Several of these people give me the impression that they truly believe spending more money = taking better pictures. Moreover some of the repliers tend to foster and encourage that belief.

I also get the impression that many newcomers (not all ) have a marked disinclination to actually start their hobby at the beginning. Very few of them want to truly learn about things like  depth of field, perspective compression, Hyperfocal distance, panning, pre focusing etc. It seems as if they want to buy a camera, set it to scene mode and fire away. No wonder they get bored after just a few months.

There are people on this site and of course other sites, giving out advice that is incorrect and misleading. They do not know how little they really know. It would seem that they have not even read the original post and certainly do not understand the original question.

I listen to other people, sometimes in a camera club situation prattling on about how superior their camera is. Only to find that one year later they have left photography for some other hobby.

As someone who has derived enormous pleasure from photography and would wish the same pleasure to all newcomers, it saddens me that we photographers have allowed this situation to develop. Years ago we had the desire and discipline to learn  but not the superb equipment we have now. These days we have the super equipment but very few people with the desire and discipline to make the effort and learn.

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Regards - Richard
Happy guy with a K5
N.B. All my Images, even the bad ones, are Protected by Copyright

Good thoughts, thanks.  I'm fairly new to photography, although I'm 54.  Everything I have learnt so far about photography over the last 2 years, has been out of my own accord, no formal training, no internet course, etc.  I have read countless books, reviews, articles, etc. and I have very much enjoyed it.

What has surprised me most since participating in this forum, is the impatience displayed by some. Maybe because those people are too young or couldn't care less, except being 'right'. Additionally, some lack the understanding that for some people, photography will never become their livelihood (because they have a different career) and it's just a hobby, which should be perfectly acceptable.

From my observation, many members have incredible technical knowledge, however, in my opinion, quite a few lack 'people skills' when participating in forums like this.  The 'tone' of their comments is in many occasions quite harsh, arrogant and off-putting.  It becomes very much a "one-upmanship" situation ... and that is what saddens me.

-- hide signature --

Thanks,
Daisy AU - Brisbane
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ney_images/

Hi Daisy. It seems you & I have had about the same amount of time with digital photography [just over 18 months for me] I joined DPR 5 months after buying my first camera. Most have had experience with phone cams, or P&S before coming on to DSLR. I had absolutely non. I joined on the recomendation of the manager of the local camera store. I did have 1 or 2 pretty impatient replies to "beginners questions", probably forgetting that they were beginners once themselves. However, the overwhelming majority have been, & continue to be, very supportive & patient. There are a few who I keep in touch with via PM's, & have become internet friends. I am glad I joined. The personal touch sometimes keeps me going, as I have had some difficult personal times, & have been treated warmly by many. Bad manners are inexcuseable, but unfortunately, are a fact of life on a large forum such as this.

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lee uk.
There are old pilots, & there are bold pilots, but there are no old bold pilots.

 happysnapper64's gear list:happysnapper64's gear list
Canon EOS 7D Canon EOS 60D Olympus PEN E-PL5 Canon EF-S 15-85mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM Canon EF-S 55-250mm f/4-5.6 IS +8 more
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Osvaldo Cristo
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I agree you, but...
In reply to Richard the picture man, 11 months ago

In general terms I agree you but please consider nobody as the newcomer would need the best automated tools in order to get decent pictures.

An expert Photographer certainly will have much better skills to cope with not so good AF, poor metering, no image stabilization or even higher noise at high ISO setup - one absolute amateur would have no idea how to handle such variables in order to preserve decent image quality.

The bottom line is nobody else an amateur will need the best automatic tools embedded into a camera in order to get at least acceptable pictures.

Regards,

Richard the picture man wrote:

I look, I read, but mostly I listen.

One thing I read once (in a Readers Digest I think) was that of all interchangeable lens cameras sold, over 70% were used for up to two months after purchase (probably for a holiday trip) and never used again.

From reading the forums here, those people asking for advice nearly always ask for advice regarding Nikon v Canon. It would seem that other brands do not exist.

Several of these people give me the impression that they truly believe spending more money = taking better pictures. Moreover some of the repliers tend to foster and encourage that belief.

I also get the impression that many newcomers (not all ) have a marked disinclination to actually start their hobby at the beginning. Very few of them want to truly learn about things like  depth of field, perspective compression, Hyperfocal distance, panning, pre focusing etc. It seems as if they want to buy a camera, set it to scene mode and fire away. No wonder they get bored after just a few months.

There are people on this site and of course other sites, giving out advice that is incorrect and misleading. They do not know how little they really know. It would seem that they have not even read the original post and certainly do not understand the original question.

I listen to other people, sometimes in a camera club situation prattling on about how superior their camera is. Only to find that one year later they have left photography for some other hobby.

As someone who has derived enormous pleasure from photography and would wish the same pleasure to all newcomers, it saddens me that we photographers have allowed this situation to develop. Years ago we had the desire and discipline to learn  but not the superb equipment we have now. These days we have the super equipment but very few people with the desire and discipline to make the effort and learn.

-- hide signature --

Regards - Richard
Happy guy with a K5
N.B. All my Images, even the bad ones, are Protected by Copyright

-- hide signature --

O.Cristo - An Amateur Photographer
Opinions of men are almost as various as their faces - so many men so many minds. B. Franklin

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Richard the picture man
Senior MemberPosts: 2,831
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Re: A few observations.
In reply to rattymouse, 11 months ago

rattymouse wrote:

Richard the picture man wrote:

I look, I read, but mostly I listen.

One thing I read once (in a Readers Digest I think) was that of all interchangeable lens cameras sold, over 70% were used for up to two months after purchase (probably for a holiday trip) and never used again.

In the absence of any documentation of this "fact", the educated mind should laugh long, hard, and out loud.

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9 years of Fujifilm camera usage, ended by rampant fanboyism.

You are so right, that is why I look and listen far more than I read, although I suppose it also depends on where, how and by whom the mind is educated.

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Regards - Richard
Happy guy with a K5
N.B. All my Images, even the bad ones, are Protected by Copyright

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Daisy AU
Senior MemberPosts: 1,560Gear list
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Re: A few observations.
In reply to happysnapper64, 11 months ago

happysnapper64 wrote:

Daisy AU wrote:

Richard the picture man wrote:

I look, I read, but mostly I listen.

One thing I read once (in a Readers Digest I think) was that of all interchangeable lens cameras sold, over 70% were used for up to two months after purchase (probably for a holiday trip) and never used again.

From reading the forums here, those people asking for advice nearly always ask for advice regarding Nikon v Canon. It would seem that other brands do not exist.

Several of these people give me the impression that they truly believe spending more money = taking better pictures. Moreover some of the repliers tend to foster and encourage that belief.

I also get the impression that many newcomers (not all ) have a marked disinclination to actually start their hobby at the beginning. Very few of them want to truly learn about things like  depth of field, perspective compression, Hyperfocal distance, panning, pre focusing etc. It seems as if they want to buy a camera, set it to scene mode and fire away. No wonder they get bored after just a few months.

There are people on this site and of course other sites, giving out advice that is incorrect and misleading. They do not know how little they really know. It would seem that they have not even read the original post and certainly do not understand the original question.

I listen to other people, sometimes in a camera club situation prattling on about how superior their camera is. Only to find that one year later they have left photography for some other hobby.

As someone who has derived enormous pleasure from photography and would wish the same pleasure to all newcomers, it saddens me that we photographers have allowed this situation to develop. Years ago we had the desire and discipline to learn  but not the superb equipment we have now. These days we have the super equipment but very few people with the desire and discipline to make the effort and learn.

-- hide signature --

Regards - Richard
Happy guy with a K5
N.B. All my Images, even the bad ones, are Protected by Copyright

Good thoughts, thanks.  I'm fairly new to photography, although I'm 54.  Everything I have learnt so far about photography over the last 2 years, has been out of my own accord, no formal training, no internet course, etc.  I have read countless books, reviews, articles, etc. and I have very much enjoyed it.

What has surprised me most since participating in this forum, is the impatience displayed by some. Maybe because those people are too young or couldn't care less, except being 'right'. Additionally, some lack the understanding that for some people, photography will never become their livelihood (because they have a different career) and it's just a hobby, which should be perfectly acceptable.

From my observation, many members have incredible technical knowledge, however, in my opinion, quite a few lack 'people skills' when participating in forums like this.  The 'tone' of their comments is in many occasions quite harsh, arrogant and off-putting.  It becomes very much a "one-upmanship" situation ... and that is what saddens me.

-- hide signature --

Thanks,
Daisy AU - Brisbane
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ney_images/

Hi Daisy. It seems you & I have had about the same amount of time with digital photography [just over 18 months for me] I joined DPR 5 months after buying my first camera. Most have had experience with phone cams, or P&S before coming on to DSLR. I had absolutely non. I joined on the recomendation of the manager of the local camera store. I did have 1 or 2 pretty impatient replies to "beginners questions", probably forgetting that they were beginners once themselves. However, the overwhelming majority have been, & continue to be, very supportive & patient. There are a few who I keep in touch with via PM's, & have become internet friends. I am glad I joined. The personal touch sometimes keeps me going, as I have had some difficult personal times, & have been treated warmly by many. Bad manners are inexcuseable, but unfortunately, are a fact of life on a large forum such as this.

-- hide signature --

lee uk.
There are old pilots, & there are bold pilots, but there are no old bold pilots.

Hi Lee,

I agree that many members take incredible time and are very generous when responding to beginners.  Others, though, go into an endless "argument" with some, just to tell one "your are wrong, I'm right" sort of thing.  Immaturity and disrespect come to mind.

-- hide signature --
 Daisy AU's gear list:Daisy AU's gear list
Nikon Coolpix S9100 Nikon D7000 Nikon 1 V1 Nikon AF-S DX Nikkor 16-85mm f/3.5-5.6G ED VR Nikon AF-S DX Nikkor 35mm f/1.8G +7 more
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