Backup, if you don’t do it, do it now

Started May 19, 2013 | Discussions
Trevor Carpenter
Veteran MemberPosts: 9,687
Like?
Backup, if you don’t do it, do it now
May 19, 2013

I back up my internal hard drive once a week onto an external hard drive

My hard drive is very full mainly with photos so last week I invested in a new external hard drive, a 2TB monster with the intention of keeping my pictures on it.

I took across 85000 pictures having taken yet another backup to be sure.

Monday I was up and running and on Tuesday I deleted all the pictures from my original drive.

Job well done.  I have released a huge amount of space from my hard drive which should give me some PC performance benefits and I have all my pictures on a separate drive which I can move with me whatever  do with my PC.

On Friday I came home and the first thing I noticed was that the shortcuts on my desktop to my pictures weren’t working.  And sure enough I was unable to access any of my 85000 pictures.  The PC was showing that my new drive was healthy but instead of showing it being formatted as NTFS was showing RAW.

I bought the drive locally (another good strategy) so yesterday returned it. The retailer confirmed all data lost and handed me over a new drive.  They offered me the address of a data recovery expert which I declined.

Now the big question and the answer was yes. I was able to restore all my pictures as they were last Sunday.  I had done a few hours editing during the week which I lost but I’m grateful for small mercies.

So never underestimate the value of a backup and of you’re new to this game and it’s something you haven’t got around to, stop what you’re doing and do it now.

-- hide signature --
RealPancho
Senior MemberPosts: 1,026Gear list
Like?
Sage advice
In reply to Trevor Carpenter, May 19, 2013

This is one the of those things that only happens to other people....until it happens to YOU. Thanks for the advice/warning. I've been meaning to do this but keep putting it off. I think I'll get on that now.

-- hide signature --

Frank

 RealPancho's gear list:RealPancho's gear list
Panasonic Lumix DMC-TS3 Olympus E-620 Olympus OM-D E-M5 Olympus E-M1 Olympus M.Zuiko Digital ED 9-18mm 1:4.0-5.6 +9 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Corkcampbell
Forum ProPosts: 13,283Gear list
Like?
Do you honestly think that people here don't back up properly?
In reply to Trevor Carpenter, May 19, 2013

I doubt if we have any noobs on this forum; after all, computers have been around awhile. Most of us have things other than photos that also need backing up.

I, like many, follow the "Rule of Three" in backing up:

1.  Three backups (although I have about six, considering I have a Dell with multiple drives and an    iMac that has a Time Machine drive attached)

2.  Two kinds of media

3.  One offsite (I have three offsite - one at work, one at a girlfriend's place, and one online with Carbonite. The one at work is backed up weekly; the online backup is continuous)

I even carry 3 micro USB sticks in my wallet totaling 72 gig for important things, like my latest photos and videos. Because I use an iPad and phone, my photos (in reduced format, of course) and important videos are also on those. Since I also post the videos that I make (which often include stills) on YouTube, that is another kind of backup, although not a complete one, of course.

All of this, even the online service, is affordable...far less than a kit lens.

 Corkcampbell's gear list:Corkcampbell's gear list
Sigma DP2 Merrill Sony Cyber-shot DSC-RX10 Sony Cyber-shot DSC-RX100 III Panasonic Lumix DMC-GH2 Olympus OM-D E-M5 +4 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
kenw
Veteran MemberPosts: 4,486Gear list
Like?
Re: Backup, if you don’t do it, do it now
In reply to Trevor Carpenter, May 19, 2013

http://www.taobackup.com/

-- hide signature --

Ken W
See profile for equipment list

 kenw's gear list:kenw's gear list
Sony RX100 Panasonic Lumix DMC-G1 Olympus OM-D E-M5 Panasonic Lumix DMC-GM1 Panasonic Lumix G Vario 14-45mm F3.5-5.6 ASPH OIS +29 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
RealPancho
Senior MemberPosts: 1,026Gear list
Like?
Of course they don't
In reply to Corkcampbell, May 19, 2013

If you think otherwise, you are simply being naive, and it has nothing to do with anyone's being a "noob" or the fact that computers have been around for a while. We're not all the same, you know.

-- hide signature --

Frank

 RealPancho's gear list:RealPancho's gear list
Panasonic Lumix DMC-TS3 Olympus E-620 Olympus OM-D E-M5 Olympus E-M1 Olympus M.Zuiko Digital ED 9-18mm 1:4.0-5.6 +9 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
JudyN
Veteran MemberPosts: 3,835Gear list
Like?
Re: Backup, if you don’t do it, do it now
In reply to Trevor Carpenter, May 19, 2013

Sorry to hear about your new disk.  I've heard they are most likely to fail when they are new.  I also think that maybe drives aren't as reliable as they used to be.  All the more reason to have those backups, and have them up to date.

I have my photography drive and a backup drive, both large externals.  Besides that I have a 2T portable drive that has my images on it too as well as lightroom catalog.  And then most everything, at least the originals, are "in the cloud".

I wouldn't suggest using the cloud for your primary backup because getting them back could take AGES.  But it's nice because it's offsite.

I'm preparing to do a physical offsite backup.  I finally figured out where I can put a disk that is somewhere easy to get to. They say safe deposit boxes but I know I just won't go there to get it out and then take it back. To do an offsite backup in the easiest way you need two drives so you can switch them.

Then you have to keep your backups up to date.  I do not use automatic backups.  If you accidentally delete something and it immediately deletes it from your backup, what is the point of a backup?  I usually run my backup program any day I've worked with my photos, after I'm finished working with them.  The backup looks to see if there is anything new and copies it and deletes anything no longer on my primary drive.  There are different types.  You can choose to keep a copy of stuff you delete (which would save you in the accidental delete scenario above).  You can choose to leave everything you've ever had on the backup drive.  But I want the SAME on my backup as my primary.

I also keep backups of virtually everything else I do.  I try to "train" my programs to put my stuff where I know where it is which makes it easy to back up.

-- hide signature --
 JudyN's gear list:JudyN's gear list
Panasonic Lumix DMC-G1 Sony SLT-A77 Olympus OM-D E-M5 Olympus Zuiko Digital ED 9-18mm 1:4.0-5.6 Panasonic Lumix G 20mm F1.7 ASPH +7 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Hen3ry
Forum ProPosts: 10,871Gear list
Like?
NO -- TWO back-ups is what you (and I) are talking about
In reply to Trevor Carpenter, May 19, 2013

Or better still, three, and you roll them along so that you have two current back-ups and one that is a week old (or whatever other interval you feel is okay).

And wherever I go, I take either the lap top (my only computer) or one of the current back-up disks with me.

Cheers, geoff

 Hen3ry's gear list:Hen3ry's gear list
Panasonic Lumix DMC-G6 Olympus M.Zuiko Digital ED 9-18mm 1:4.0-5.6 Panasonic Lumix G Vario 100-300mm F4-5.6 OIS Olympus M.Zuiko Digital 45mm 1:1.8 Panasonic 12-35mm F2.8 +4 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Guy Parsons
Forum ProPosts: 19,418Gear list
Like?
Have no backups? Then who's the crazy one? (fixed my bad post)
In reply to Trevor Carpenter, May 19, 2013

Ooops must have bumped something, was composing the subject line and away it went... Now for some content.

In my Case there's 5 active computers in the house used for various purposes and they all have a little USB drive attached that backs up (using Syncback) every 30 minutes.

Then also every 30 minutes if certain other computers or the NAS is powered on, other backups occur across to that device.

The NAS is recent and I intend to use it as the monster backup and not for daily working files. It eventually will have 4 x 3TB drives for a planned total of maybe 8 TB of space (Netgear X-Raid method) so can organise multiple dated backup sets for the first time.

Any or all of the backups can be easily removed from the house when away for more than a little time. So far no offsite storage as nothing is really that critical, if the house gets lost then the data is the very least of my worries. I trust my own backup methods way better than any cloud solutions. Besides now the complete single backup for the whole set of computers is hitting the 1 TB mark, with maybe 500 gig or so of that being the photos.

So I consider anyone just a bit crazy if they don't at least go buy one of those little USB powered hard drives and go get Syncback or similar to get their life backed up.

Regards.... Guy

 Guy Parsons's gear list:Guy Parsons's gear list
Olympus PEN E-PL5 Olympus PEN E-P5 Panasonic Lumix G Vario 45-150mm F4-5.6 ASPH Mega OIS Olympus 12-40mm F2.8 Panasonic Lumix DMC-LX3 +17 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
noirdesir
Forum ProPosts: 11,214
Like?
Re: Do you honestly think that people here don't back up properly?
In reply to Corkcampbell, May 19, 2013

Corkcampbell wrote:

1.  Three backups (although I have about six, considering I have a Dell with multiple drives and an    iMac that has a Time Machine drive attached)

2.  Two kinds of media

I'd use two kinds of backup software instead of two media. I don't expect that all magnetic harddrives will fail together.

3.  One offsite (I have three offsite - one at work, one at a girlfriend's place, and one online with Carbonite. The one at work is backed up weekly; the online backup is continuous)

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
JudyN
Veteran MemberPosts: 3,835Gear list
Like?
Re: Do you honestly think that people here don't back up properly?
In reply to noirdesir, May 19, 2013

noirdesir wrote:

Corkcampbell wrote:

2.  Two kinds of media

I'd use two kinds of backup software instead of two media. I don't expect that all magnetic harddrives will fail together.

I agree.  I have no faith in DVDs and they are a management nightmare if you are expected to make sure they are still good.  Gave them up long ago for image backup.  My hard drives cannot all fail at once.  One of them isn't even plugged in, connected, turned on most of the time.

I do wish all drives would have on off switches because I prefer to leave the backup off until I want to back up, but most of the ones I'm getting now don't have on/off switches.

-- hide signature --
 JudyN's gear list:JudyN's gear list
Panasonic Lumix DMC-G1 Sony SLT-A77 Olympus OM-D E-M5 Olympus Zuiko Digital ED 9-18mm 1:4.0-5.6 Panasonic Lumix G 20mm F1.7 ASPH +7 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
JudyN
Veteran MemberPosts: 3,835Gear list
Like?
Re: Have no backups? Then who's the crazy one? (fixed my bad post)
In reply to Guy Parsons, May 19, 2013

Guy Parsons wrote:

So far no offsite storage as nothing is really that critical, if the house gets lost then the data is the very least of my worries.

That's not how I feel about it.  My many many years of photographs are more important than most of the things in my house.

-- hide signature --
 JudyN's gear list:JudyN's gear list
Panasonic Lumix DMC-G1 Sony SLT-A77 Olympus OM-D E-M5 Olympus Zuiko Digital ED 9-18mm 1:4.0-5.6 Panasonic Lumix G 20mm F1.7 ASPH +7 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
FrankS009
Senior MemberPosts: 2,462Gear list
Like?
Re: Have no backups? Then who's the crazy one? (fixed my bad post)
In reply to Guy Parsons, May 20, 2013

I had a USB drive fail once - with two weeks work on it. No longer trust them. Now I have three external hard drives, and work directly to one for ongoing work and photographs, backing it up to two others regularly (one from Windows, and one from Mac). Don't have much "data" on my computer hard drive at all except I also back up my working external drive once and a while to it. Had a colleague who used to say, "blessed are the cautious, for they have made backups."

F.

 FrankS009's gear list:FrankS009's gear list
Panasonic Lumix G 20mm F1.7 ASPH
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Guy Parsons
Forum ProPosts: 19,418Gear list
Like?
What needs to survive?
In reply to JudyN, May 20, 2013

JudyN wrote:

Guy Parsons wrote:

So far no offsite storage as nothing is really that critical, if the house gets lost then the data is the very least of my worries.

That's not how I feel about it.  My many many years of photographs are more important than most of the things in my house.

A little overstated by me, but it's only personal stuff and holidays, nothing there that pays the rent.

I guess when Lyn and I fall off the twig all our disk drives etc will get junked anyway, no-one further down the line would be particularly interested in what we did.

However, Lyn's digging in the family tree has really highlighted the value of long lasting prints. So slowly we are scanning and re-printing old fading prints from up to more than 100 years ago, plus printing family interest shots from all ages and making sure it is on quality print media and pigment inks, so may last reasonably well.

A shoe-box (hopefully all acid free and prints in sleeves of acid free paper) might last and be of interest down the track. The hard drives that have that old and not used for 50 years SATA and USB connections will just see the dustbin.

The images to print like that are family members, and houses and cars that we owned and general street scenes from whatever era.

The arty-farty images of waterfalls and old trees etc are of absolutely no interest to future image explorers, unless your name happens to be Ansel Adams.

Witness the world heritage importance of a collection of wet process glass plates found in an old garage some years back in Sydney. These shots have enormous interest to historians.

Regards..... Guy

 Guy Parsons's gear list:Guy Parsons's gear list
Olympus PEN E-PL5 Olympus PEN E-P5 Panasonic Lumix G Vario 45-150mm F4-5.6 ASPH Mega OIS Olympus 12-40mm F2.8 Panasonic Lumix DMC-LX3 +17 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
oldphotog2
Regular MemberPosts: 159Gear list
Like?
Re: Backup, if you don’t do it, do it now
In reply to Trevor Carpenter, May 20, 2013

And backup the backup with a backup. Really!

 oldphotog2's gear list:oldphotog2's gear list
Nikon D200 Nikon 1 V1 Nikon AF-S DX Nikkor 18-200mm f/3.5-5.6G IF-ED VR Nikon AF-S DX Nikkor 12-24mm f/4G ED-IF Nikon 1 Nikkor VR 10-30mm f/3.5-5.6 +7 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
flarsson
Regular MemberPosts: 287Gear list
Like?
Re: Have no backups? Then who's the crazy one? (fixed my bad post)
In reply to FrankS009, May 20, 2013

I have not yet experienced the "death" of an USB-harddrive, but have experienced the death of two harddrives in my stationary computers. - where I was happy for my back-up.

My backup- system iis quite simple.

1) I have a NAS (Network attached storage) of 1TB.

2) I have TWO USB-harddrives (500 GB USB2 and 1TB USB3).

3) and for my notebook, I have an external USB3-harddrive (2,5") of 500 GB, which includes most of my photos too.

-- hide signature --

E-3, E-5, 7-14/4, 14-54/2,8-3,5, 50-200/2,8-3,5 SWD, 35-100/2.0, 35, 9-18, 18-180, 70-300; PL 25/1,4; Sigma 105/2,8; Sigma 50-500; Samyang 500R/8; EC-14; EC-20; EX-25, FL-36R, FL-50R(2); HLD-4.
OM-D, MZD 12-50, MZD 45/1.8, Panny 45-200, MMF-3.
OM-2N, OM-10, OM-40, OMZ 28/2,8, OMZ 35/2,8, OMZ 50/1,4, OMZ50/1,8 (2), OMZ 100/2,8, OMZ 135/3,5, Elicar 35/2,8 OM, Cosina 35-70 f/3,5-4,5 OM, Vivitar 70-150 f/3,5 OM, Vivitar 2x converter OM, Olympus FM-1 OM/E-converter (2), T-32

 flarsson's gear list:flarsson's gear list
Olympus E-M1
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Paul De Bra
Forum ProPosts: 11,384Gear list
Like?
You can never have too many backups!
In reply to Trevor Carpenter, May 20, 2013

One backup is also tempting faith...

My (work) laptop holds everything, including all my photos. It has a backup drive at work so unless I'm there the backup is in a different place than the laptop (geographic distribution is important in case of fire or other disaster). I have everything on a small server at home. I have all my photos on a server at work. And I have them on Zenfolio. So I have 5 copies of all my photos, in three locations. I feel quite safe. But with just a single backup I would definitely not feel safe.

-- hide signature --

Slowly learning to use the Olympus OM-D E-M5.
Public pictures at http://debra.zenfolio.com/.

 Paul De Bra's gear list:Paul De Bra's gear list
Fujifilm FinePix F200EXR Olympus OM-D E-M5 Olympus M.Zuiko Digital ED 9-18mm 1:4.0-5.6 Panasonic Lumix G 20mm F1.7 ASPH Olympus M.Zuiko Digital ED 75-300mm 1:4.8-6.7 +4 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Martin.au
Senior MemberPosts: 6,561Gear list
Like?
Re: Backup, if you don’t do it, do it now
In reply to Trevor Carpenter, May 20, 2013

There's two types of people in the world. Those who do backup, and those who will backup.

It's only a matter of time.

 Martin.au's gear list:Martin.au's gear list
Olympus OM-D E-M5 Olympus E-M1 Panasonic Lumix G Fisheye 8mm F3.5 Olympus M.Zuiko Digital ED 12-50mm 1:3.5-6.3 EZ Olympus M.Zuiko Digital ED 60mm 1:2.8 Macro +3 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Guy Parsons
Forum ProPosts: 19,418Gear list
Like?
Re: Backup, if you don’t do it, do it now
In reply to Martin.au, May 20, 2013

Mjankor wrote:

There's two types of people in the world. Those who do backup, and those who will backup.

It's only a matter of time.

I've been working hands-on with computer hardware fixing since 1963 and you name it, it has happened on my watch.

So my motto is "be prepared" because the fact is that anything can happen at any time.

It's just that reliability has been improving somewhat over the years and the intervals between nasty events gets longer and longer and that makes people lazy and complacent about being ready for when it all goes belly-up.

Regards....... Guy

 Guy Parsons's gear list:Guy Parsons's gear list
Olympus PEN E-PL5 Olympus PEN E-P5 Panasonic Lumix G Vario 45-150mm F4-5.6 ASPH Mega OIS Olympus 12-40mm F2.8 Panasonic Lumix DMC-LX3 +17 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
RoelHendrickx
Forum ProPosts: 22,775
Like?
The key word here is "properly"
In reply to Corkcampbell, May 20, 2013

Corkcampbell wrote:

I doubt if we have any noobs on this forum; after all, computers have been around awhile. Most of us have things other than photos that also need backing up.

I, like many, follow the "Rule of Three" in backing up:

1.  Three backups (although I have about six, considering I have a Dell with multiple drives and an    iMac that has a Time Machine drive attached)

2.  Two kinds of media

3.  One offsite (I have three offsite - one at work, one at a girlfriend's place, and one online with Carbonite. The one at work is backed up weekly; the online backup is continuous)

I even carry 3 micro USB sticks in my wallet totaling 72 gig for important things, like my latest photos and videos. Because I use an iPad and phone, my photos (in reduced format, of course) and important videos are also on those. Since I also post the videos that I make (which often include stills) on YouTube, that is another kind of backup, although not a complete one, of course.

All of this, even the online service, is affordable...far less than a kit lens.

I do believe there are still people not backing up at all.  Maybe less so in the population of this forum.

But I do also believe there are a vast number of people who back up and then leave the back up disk right next to the computer, where both will be destroyed simultaneously by a serious calamity that destroy the house.

I know I am actually a bit guilty of that omission : my main backup of RAW files seldom leaves my house (only when I am off for an extended period).  I should make another and alternate.

What I do take care of, is making extended and multiple backups of finished files (JPG) : they are on my computer at home, also at work on the next day, and on my zenfolio site.

Even if I lost everything else, I could at least re-download everything from Zenfolio : the files there are limited in size, but at least I will still have the image in its final form.

-- hide signature --

Roel Hendrickx
lots of images: www.roelh.zenfolio.com
my E-3 user field report from Tunisian Sahara: http://www.biofos.com/ukpsg/roel.html

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
RoelHendrickx
Forum ProPosts: 22,775
Like?
Re: What needs to survive?
In reply to Guy Parsons, May 20, 2013

Guy Parsons wrote:

JudyN wrote:

Guy Parsons wrote:

So far no offsite storage as nothing is really that critical, if the house gets lost then the data is the very least of my worries.

That's not how I feel about it.  My many many years of photographs are more important than most of the things in my house.

A little overstated by me, but it's only personal stuff and holidays, nothing there that pays the rent.

I guess when Lyn and I fall off the twig all our disk drives etc will get junked anyway, no-one further down the line would be particularly interested in what we did.

I agree that unless I really make a name for myself as photographer no one is really going to look through hard drives with countless gigabytes of raw files, after my demise.

That is why what we print (or display online) is more important : at least that is manageable.

I keep my processed photos in directories of which the subject and time period are easily recognizable.

However, Lyn's digging in the family tree has really highlighted the value of long lasting prints. So slowly we are scanning and re-printing old fading prints from up to more than 100 years ago, plus printing family interest shots from all ages and making sure it is on quality print media and pigment inks, so may last reasonably well.

A shoe-box (hopefully all acid free and prints in sleeves of acid free paper) might last and be of interest down the track. The hard drives that have that old and not used for 50 years SATA and USB connections will just see the dustbin.

The images to print like that are family members, and houses and cars that we owned and general street scenes from whatever era.

The arty-farty images of waterfalls and old trees etc are of absolutely no interest to future image explorers, unless your name happens to be Ansel Adams.

Witness the world heritage importance of a collection of wet process glass plates found in an old garage some years back in Sydney. These shots have enormous interest to historians.

Regards..... Guy

-- hide signature --

Roel Hendrickx
lots of images: www.roelh.zenfolio.com
my E-3 user field report from Tunisian Sahara: http://www.biofos.com/ukpsg/roel.html

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Keyboard shortcuts:
FForum MMy threads