Blown out tulips

Started May 19, 2013 | Discussions
tamras29
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Blown out tulips
May 19, 2013

Would someone be kind enough to let me know what has gone wrong with my red tulips please?  What a mess! The sensot is not happy.

X100 - ISO 200 f8 1/400

Provia - OK I appreciate not the best choice, but its the same in the raw file, and nothing I can do fixes it.

I'm using Finepix.

Many thanks.

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Al Valentino
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Re: Blown out tulips
In reply to tamras29, May 19, 2013

looks like you blew out the red channel. I have done this myself and it is not difficult to do. The histogram on the camera is not RGB channels but a luminosity, which Is often similar to the green channel. So the histogram may look great but in fact one Of the channels, in this case red, is blown which kills the detail. selectively lowering the exposure In post can help a little in some cases it is not enough.

long ago i used to have this problem with my Nikon D70 which only had a luminosity histogram. Last week i had the same problem shooting flowers with my XE1. Histogram looked perfect but at home it is bad. Easier to correct if shooting raw, which I didn't, but sometimes that is not enough.

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pachura
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Re: Blown out tulips
In reply to Al Valentino, May 19, 2013

X100 does not have separate RGB histograms ???

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intruder61
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Re: Blown out tulips
In reply to tamras29, May 19, 2013

it can be fixed in PS as a raw file.

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Travelshooter
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Re: Blown out tulips
In reply to intruder61, May 19, 2013

shouldn't be very difficult to fix the raw in LR either.

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BingoCharlie
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Re: Blown out tulips
In reply to intruder61, May 19, 2013

intruder61 wrote:

it can be fixed in PS as a raw file.

Honest question: Isn't it possible that he clipped the red highlights completely, meaning he can't recover them in raw?

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nixda
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Re: Blown out tulips
In reply to pachura, May 19, 2013

pachura wrote:

X100 does not have separate RGB histograms ???

I assume that your remark is sarcastic. If not, none of the higher-end Fuji cameras has RGBL histograms.

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nixda
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Re: Blown out tulips
In reply to BingoCharlie, May 19, 2013

BingoCharlie wrote:

intruder61 wrote:

it can be fixed in PS as a raw file.

Honest question: Isn't it possible that he clipped the red highlights completely, meaning he can't recover them in raw?

Absolutely. The OP even states that the raw data are blown as well. At least that's how I read his/her post. In that case, indeed, nothing much can be done. Lesson learned: it seems one has to be a bit careful with the reds on the Fujis, even on the X-Trans cameras. In this particular case, perhaps, one can pull it back a bit by using the data in the other channels, but the color would get distorted no matter what, so the final result wouldn't be authentic, unless one does some sophisticated color correction on top of it.

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il_alexk
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Use average metering
In reply to tamras29, May 19, 2013

Average metering tends to push histogram to the left which helps in preventing 90% of overexposures. Not a perfect solution but makes the camera far more enjoyable for me.

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Al Valentino
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Re: Blown out tulips
In reply to nixda, May 19, 2013

nixda wrote:

BingoCharlie wrote:

intruder61 wrote:

it can be fixed in PS as a raw file.

Honest question: Isn't it possible that he clipped the red highlights completely, meaning he can't recover them in raw?

Absolutely. The OP even states that the raw data are blown as well. At least that's how I read his/her post. In that case, indeed, nothing much can be done. Lesson learned: it seems one has to be a bit careful with the reds on the Fujis, even on the X-Trans cameras. In this particular case, perhaps, one can pull it back a bit by using the data in the other channels, but the color would get distorted no matter what, so the final result wouldn't be authentic, unless one does some sophisticated color correction on top of it.

Although reds are the most notorious for this type of problem the thing to watch for is the dominant color in the composition. for example, a shot dominated with grass or tress might blow out the green channel and thus lose detail in those parts of the picture. I have also had problems with blowing the blue channel out.

This issue is well handled if a camera has a Histogram that show separate R G B histograms as I mentioned above. Hopefully fuji will add this much needed feature in future cameras or possibly firmware upgrades.

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Adrian Tung
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Re: Blown out tulips
In reply to tamras29, May 19, 2013

tamras29 wrote:

Would someone be kind enough to let me know what has gone wrong with my red tulips please?  What a mess! The sensot is not happy.

X100 - ISO 200 f8 1/400

Provia - OK I appreciate not the best choice, but its the same in the raw file, and nothing I can do fixes it.

I'm using Finepix.

Many thanks.

I started a topic related to this issue a few weeks ago:

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/51400664

If your RAW files are indeed clipped then there's nothing much you can do, but assuming that it is only the postprocessing of the RAW that results in the red clipping, you may find some useful advice in that discussion.

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Re: Blown out tulips
In reply to Al Valentino, May 19, 2013

AV, I have lots of 'red flower photos' that are exactly like this:  The rest of the frame is fine, but the reds just run away like our friend's tulips.  Aside from attempting recovery in PP, what would you aim for in 'getting it right in the camera' to begin with?  Ironically, I have red cars, signs, etc., and this doesn't happen there, but for some reason, really red flowers (roses!) are burning a hole in the back of my cameras (X10 and X-S1).

All the Best,
JW

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Al Valentino
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Blown Red channel
In reply to tamras29, May 19, 2013

Below is a shot I took earlier this week. The picture looked great on the LCD and the Histogram confirmed it was okay because that histogram is only about luminosity (brightness). However, the RGB histogram shows the red channel is blown and as a result there is lost and compress detail in those hard red-magenta areas

The shot below is a jpeg. I opened it in ACR and tried to lower exposure and turn down the highlight slider. It worked in the sense that the right side of the histrogram was not a straight up/down line which is a sure sign of lost information. However, the result of doing that changed the distribution of pixels on the highlight end which created a horrible color shift by either lowering exposure or playing with highlight slider. Reducing saturation creates a different bad version. Again, this is a jpeg so I only have so much latitude. If this was shot as a RAW I would have more information to play with and possibly done better. However, there is a point, raw or no raw, that something get lost and makes the problem areas look artificial - because they are artificial.

It is a problem but not a terrible one since once you understand it and know to look for it, it all goes away. Just shoot raw and underexposure or use the exposure bracket mode... The above was shot in Velvia, which contributed to the problem, and I knew I could not trust the histogram. My mistake was I did trust the LCD (never scrutinized but did inspect) and it looked fine. Now I know the color space on the LCD is more limited than my computer and can watch for it. Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.

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jl_smith
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Try this...
In reply to tamras29, May 19, 2013

Try loading up the raw in Lightroom or PS and lower the red channel luminance a bit and saturation just a tad.  Not perfect, but it'll help those tulips.

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PeterPrism
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Re: Try this...
In reply to jl_smith, May 19, 2013

jl_smith wrote:

Try loading up the raw in Lightroom or PS and lower the red channel luminance a bit and saturation just a tad.  Not perfect, but it'll help those tulips.

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Allen Chernack
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Re: Blown out tulips
In reply to Al Valentino, May 19, 2013

I have had blowouts on Yellow and Reds with my X-E1. I find if I lower exposer -1/3 or- 2/3, it helps.  Or, I'll bracket. I don't know what the 100 does or what settings you can make.

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Al Valentino
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Re: Try this...
In reply to PeterPrism, May 19, 2013

PeterPrism wrote:

jl_smith wrote:

Try loading up the raw in Lightroom or PS and lower the red channel luminance a bit and saturation just a tad.  Not perfect, but it'll help those tulips.

Fixes one problem but creates another, a color shift in everything, including the greens.

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KariP
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Re: Blown out tulips look like software error...
In reply to tamras29, May 19, 2013

Are you sure you have not adjusted too much saturation or something - that does not look like  normally blown out reds?  That happens easily, but then the color usually shifts towards yellow...

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PeterPrism
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Green? an opinion
In reply to Al Valentino, May 19, 2013

Al Valentino wrote:

PeterPrism wrote:

jl_smith wrote:

Try loading up the raw in Lightroom or PS and lower the red channel luminance a bit and saturation just a tad.  Not perfect, but it'll help those tulips.

Fixes one problem but creates another, a color shift in everything, including the greens.

we can only imagine the colors ...

and now Green Preserved !!!

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hellocrowley
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Re: Blown Red channel
In reply to Al Valentino, May 19, 2013

There were reports of the red channel clipping since day 1. I too usually have this problem, red just turns magenta and not recoverable.

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