X-Onwers would u pay $ for F/ware features eg. Facial detection, focus peaking?

Started May 17, 2013 | Discussions
ThachLy
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X-Onwers would u pay $ for F/ware features eg. Facial detection, focus peaking?
May 17, 2013

Greetings X-owners,

I bought my X-E1 with 14mm and 35mm. My son bought his OMD with just the kit zoom. We have been out shooting together and frankly I m enjoying photography more than ever before (I started with a Canon film AT-1 in late 70's).

Just wonder if we could together encourage Fuji to develop extras for our existing X100/s, X-Pro1, X-E1.

If Apple can sell Apps to my Ipads, why can't that business model work for Fuji and their cameras?

After all Fuji've been it for free with new Firmware and so on. Why not pay for it and encourage them to be even more responsive to us? (Fuji, if anyone is reading this, think like Steve Jobs)

I m willing to pay for the following extras Firmware downloads (free would be marvelous).

1. Facial detection and facial focus: $0-$10. (God knows how many times I've focused on the subject's background)

2. Focus peaking: $0-$3. (I used to have a NEX-5R, I know how cool this is)

3. Fast AF, as fast as the OMD: $0 - $10. (I would pay $1 for every 70ms faster, particularly on 35mm lens).

All features : 50% discount.

You may not all be willing to pay the same amount as above, but this is a free market :-).

I can't think of anything else right now. I'd like to hear your views on this. Please feel free to add others.

ThachLy from Melbourne.

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OPWong
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Re: X-Onwers would u pay $ for F/ware features eg. Facial detection, focus peaking?
In reply to ThachLy, May 17, 2013

please don't get confuse with third party software to support the product (your iPhone) and product improvement by manufacture to make their product more attractive to the market.

Based on your theory should a "new" buyer expect to pay extra for a camera which is 6-12 months into it's product life cycle?

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Iyhel Mnemeltarma
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Re: X-Onwers would u pay $ for F/ware features eg. Facial detection, focus peaking?
In reply to ThachLy, May 17, 2013

So you're ready to pay $15 to upgrade something that costed $1500? Do you really believe 1% of the price of a product would be an incentive for Fuji to assign more ressources?

Let's add that you seemed confused by Apple's model: since when do we have to pay for updates on OSX or iOS?

And most important: will Fuji give me a cashback if I desactivate the video and bracketing options?

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Peter Jonas
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Re: X-Onwers would u pay $ for F/ware features eg. Facial detection, focus peaking?
In reply to Iyhel Mnemeltarma, May 17, 2013

Iyhel Mnemeltarma wrote:

So you're ready to pay $15 to upgrade something that costed $1500? Do you really believe 1% of the price of a product would be an incentive for Fuji to assign more ressources?

I tend to agree. The X cameras are not selling in huge vulumes. My guess is that you would have to pay an order of magnitude more for such features, something like $20 to $40 per feature. For some I would, and for others I would not.

And most important: will Fuji give me a cashback if I desactivate the video and bracketing options?

No software supplier will you any cash back after you have used their product. Why would Fuji want to do that? Such expectation would be unreasonable.

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Peter Jonas

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ThachLy
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Re: X-Onwers would u pay $ for F/ware features eg. Facial detection, focus peaking?
In reply to OPWong, May 17, 2013

Hi OPWong,

Yah thanks for pulling me up on that. Apps are 3rd party stuff alright. On the other question, if I have a choice of firmware upgrade to get most of the improvements I want at a fraction of the price of a new body, I know which one I 'd prefer. Thanks for your reply

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ThachLy
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Re: X-Onwers would u pay $ for F/ware features eg. Facial detection, focus peaking?
In reply to Peter Jonas, May 17, 2013

Peter Jonas wrote:Iyhel Mnemeltarma wrote:

So you're ready to pay $15 to upgrade something that costed $1500? Do you really believe 1% of the price of a product would be an incentive for Fuji to assign more ressources?

Good point. I wonder if there is a value in keeping customers hooked on their system and may be buy more lenses, ...or just let them leave out of frustration. Resources ? Well Fuji have released a few firmware Versions in the past year or so for the X-system. Just made me want some more. The biggest question to me is: how much more can they improve AF on those wide prime lenses where DoF could be so challenging given their focusing hardware?

I tend to agree. The X cameras are not selling in huge vulumes. My guess is that you would have to pay an order of magnitude more for such features, something like $20 to $40 per feature. For some I would, and for others I would not.

I share your view on this. I was playing with my friend's Samsung P&S the other day. It has all kind of 'fun' feature that I have absolutely no interest in, like multiple exposures on the same file, pre-programed art works/photo frames ... I just laughed.

And most important: will Fuji give me a cashback if I desactivate the video and bracketing options?

No software supplier will you any cash back after you have used their product. Why would Fuji want to do that? Such expectation would be unreasonable.

I understand. I wish Microsoft refunded me for all the features that I never used or knew existed (and all those crashes/virus infections/freezes).

Thanks for your replies guys.

At the end, as my son keeps telling me, it's always the photographer's fault if (s)he didn't get right I m not going to argue with that.

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Re: X-Onwers would u pay $ for F/ware features eg. Facial detection, focus peaking?
In reply to Iyhel Mnemeltarma, May 17, 2013

Iyhel Mnemeltarma wrote:

So you're ready to pay $15 to upgrade something that costed $1500? Do you really believe 1% of the price of a product would be an incentive for Fuji to assign more ressources?

Fuji's incentive ought to be its profit margin, not the percent of the original price. If they can make a profit off such an upgrade -- especially a larger profit than by trying unsuccessfully to convince users to buy a new camera in order to access the same features -- then the rational decision is to offer a paid upgrade.

For example, I have an HS25. I've read that the HS50 has focus peaking, which I'd love to have. However, I can't afford an HS50, though I could afford a $15 upgrade to the HS25, and would pay it at some point.

Let's add that you seemed confused by Apple's model: since when do we have to pay for updates on OSX or iOS?

That's a curious argument you're making there. I've been using Apple computers for years, and the only free OSX update I am aware of was from 10.0 to 10.1. I'm now using 10.6.8 instead of 10.7 or even 10.8, precisely because I'd have to pay for the updates. Bug and security fixes are free, but the OP is talking about new features.

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Sulis2
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Re: X-Onwers would u pay $ for F/ware features eg. Facial detection, focus peaking?
In reply to ThachLy, May 17, 2013

Or, if Fuji really wanted to stand out from the competition, they could open-source the software. Let your customers configure their own improvements.

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viking79
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Re: X-Onwers would u pay $ for F/ware features eg. Facial detection, focus peaking?
In reply to ThachLy, May 17, 2013

Sony sells camera features for their NEX 5R and 6 cameras in the form of apps as you describe.  I imagine it will be more common place as manufacturers look for ways to make profit in an extremely competitive field.

Eric

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Re: X-Onwers would u pay $ for F/ware features eg. Facial detection, focus peaking?
In reply to ThachLy, May 17, 2013

I would not pay for the features you list.

I would not use these features even if they were there now.

I realiznight would be highly valued by others though.

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ThachLy
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Re: X-Onwers would u pay $ for F/ware features eg. Facial detection, focus peaking?
In reply to Sulis2, May 17, 2013

Thanks guys for the replies.

I m sure what we r talking about here must have been tossed around in various product development workshops in those camera companies.

Lets just digress a bit. I wonder if any of the following crazy ideas have been tossed about:

- Your 'Linux' idea of open source code, within some limit, let third party develop/innovate/enrich features.

- Industry standards to allow more compatibility between lens/bodies. To take the idea of Oly/Pana M43 beyond that platform, to all FF (one mount) and all APSC (another mount). Think of WiFi features.

- More integration of the camera and mobile industry, not just in terms of functionality, but also business models. Think of the impact that Ipod 's had on the sales of MAC computers back in early 2000's.

- Make sensors/components upgradable ? Think of the 'open' PC 25 yr ago?

I m not sure if the camera industry will still be viable 10 yr from now if there is an insufficient level of innovation in the face of relentless invasion from other industries like Iphone/smartphone??? I mean, are people still buying video cameras? I stopped looking them for the last 10 yrs or so. Why? (I m looking at my Samsung Note & smiling )

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e268
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Re: X-Onwers would u pay $ for F/ware features eg. Facial detection, focus peaking?
In reply to ThachLy, May 17, 2013

No, they are all gimmicks, and I'll never use them.  I'll need focus peaking for manual focus.

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mr moonlight
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Re: X-Onwers would u pay $ for F/ware features eg. Facial detection, focus peaking?
In reply to ThachLy, May 17, 2013

Why not just keep FW updates free as Fuji has been doing? It seems to me that Fuji has worked pretty hard to continuously improve their X-series cameras to optimize their performance. They have seriously taken into consideration user feedback and made many improvements based upon that feedback. Switching to a pay-per-updated system would be a step backwards and would probably annoy a lot of users. If very much doubt Fuji is holding back on upgrades just to keep the next model more marketable. If Fuji could double the speed of their AF and squash all the "slow AF" talk, they'd sell a lot more cameras.

Fuji makes money off of selling cameras. FW improvements = better cameras = more sales. The X100 sold very well at the beginning and continued to sell well in part because Fuji kept improving the camera.

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Asylum Photo
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Re: X-Onwers would u pay $ for F/ware features eg. Facial detection, focus peaking?
In reply to ThachLy, May 17, 2013

I'd rather companies just make their cameras fully functional. If we go down this road, we'll get cameras with zero features out of the box, and you have to pay $20/pop to unlock features like "aperture control". heh

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Mr Gadget
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In reply to ThachLy, May 17, 2013

I have managed to get by for 40 years or so without facial detection, focus peaking and blazing fast focus. I have an X100 and find it does a great job taking the images that I want it to. On our recent 5 day trip to San Diego I took close to 500 images that I have been very happy with. Well focused with great colors right out of the camera.

IMHO Fujifilm is doing a very creditable job listening to their customers and issuing firmware updates on a regular basis. Nikon on the other hand seems to be heading in the opposite direction, and lets not even begin a discussion of what Adobe has been up to. I am now beginning to see an X-E1, 18-55, 55-200 and 10-24 in my future.

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massimogori
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Re: X-Onwers would u pay $ for F/ware features eg. Facial detection, focus peaking?
In reply to ThachLy, May 17, 2013

Greetings X-owners,

I bought my X-E1 with 14mm and 35mm. My son bought his OMD with just the kit zoom. We have been out shooting together and frankly I m enjoying photography more than ever before (I started with a Canon film AT-1 in late 70's).

Just wonder if we could together encourage Fuji to develop extras for our existing X100/s, X-Pro1, X-E1.

If Apple can sell Apps to my Ipads, why can't that business model work for Fuji and their cameras?

After all Fuji've been it for free with new Firmware and so on. Why not pay for it and encourage them to be even more responsive to us? (Fuji, if anyone is reading this, think like Steve Jobs)

I m willing to pay for the following extras Firmware downloads (free would be marvelous).

1. Facial detection and facial focus: $0-$10. (God knows how many times I've focused on the subject's background)

2. Focus peaking: $0-$3. (I used to have a NEX-5R, I know how cool this is)

3. Fast AF, as fast as the OMD: $0 - $10. (I would pay $1 for every 70ms faster, particularly on 35mm lens).

All features : 50% discount.

You may not all be willing to pay the same amount as above, but this is a free market :-).

I can't think of anything else right now. I'd like to hear your views on this. Please feel free to add others.

ThachLy from Melbourne.

Don't you think that what we paid was more than enough? Or are you a young rampant Fuji marketing guy trying to test his greedy idea?

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Iyhel Mnemeltarma
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New features or bug fixes?
In reply to cantanima, May 18, 2013

cantanima wrote:

Fuji's incentive ought to be its profit margin, not the percent of the original price.

What profit margin? With the price point proposed above and the low volumes?.

Let's add that you seemed confused by Apple's model: since when do we have to pay for updates on OSX or iOS?

That's a curious argument you're making there. I've been using Apple computers for years, and the only free OSX update I am aware of was from 10.0 to 10.1. I'm now using 10.6.8 instead of 10.7 or even 10.8, precisely because I'd have to pay for the updates. Bug and security fixes are free, but the OP is talking about new features.

Well to me the three features proposed above look more like bug fixes, especially the AF improvements! And with iOS you actually get at least 2 major updates for free.

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Brond1
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stubbornness or impossiblity?
In reply to Iyhel Mnemeltarma, May 18, 2013

I would pay for minimum auto ISO shutter speed and focus peaking. Fuji must know by long ago that many many people want that.. and have put it in 100s so why nothing for the other cameras.. Im confused. I think the company IS responsive and interested in providing a different, fresh and direct photographic experience.. but there seems to be this perverse oversight. I dont think us bunging them another £50 each would solve it but I'd pay it if it did.

I'd be scared of open source stuff if it voided Fuji guarantee and I had no counter guarantee that I would not end up bricking the camera

K

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mr moonlight
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Re: stubbornness or impossiblity?
In reply to Brond1, May 18, 2013

Brond1 wrote:

I would pay for minimum auto ISO shutter speed and focus peaking. Fuji must know by long ago that many many people want that.. and have put it in 100s so why nothing for the other cameras.. Im confused. I think the company IS responsive and interested in providing a different, fresh and direct photographic experience.. but there seems to be this perverse oversight. I dont think us bunging them another £50 each would solve it but I'd pay it if it did.

I'd be scared of open source stuff if it voided Fuji guarantee and I had no counter guarantee that I would not end up bricking the camera

K

The X100s is a brand new camera with a new hybrid sensor. More likely than anything is that the new hardware components enable Fuji to implement a new set of features not possible/practical with the older version of the camera.

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dark13star
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I switched from Sony to get away from that stuff
In reply to ThachLy, May 18, 2013

I'm just past my first week on Fuji with the X-E1 and selling off all my Sony gear. Why, because it seems to me that Sony is more focused on the segment of the market that wants those things and Fuji is more focused on the fundamentals of making cameras for enthusiasts. It's hard to pull off both successfully, and while there is some great high-end stuff for Sony, it is clear that much of their capacity has gone to consumer features.

Fuji has chosen to focus on a certain segment. I hope they stay true to that vision. They had to know that they would never have the mass market in their strategy, but then again, they can basically own the enthusiast market if they keep on their current path.

I hope they stay true
Rich

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