Magic Lantern and Nikon

Started May 14, 2013 | Discussions
rfeuer
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Magic Lantern and Nikon
May 14, 2013

Is there any company out there that is producing software for the Nikon family that is like or comparable to the software that Magic Lantern produces for the Canon line?

Thanks

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Araucaria
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Re: Magic Lantern and Nikon
In reply to rfeuer, May 14, 2013

No and probably there won't be any. There are some guys who hacked nikon firmwares but they aren't as big as magiclantern,etc...

I gues we will have to wait 10 years to get good video on our nikons (I don't plan on changing all my glass). Anyway, the magic lantern ppl could make all this raw 2k stuff because the canon actually was having that data stream for LV, if you compare the Live View stream between a Canon mkIII and a Nikon d800 you will see that even if there were some talented team hacking nikons they couldn't achieve the same.

The only way to have highquality video is by nikon writing a new live view engine and that's not going to happen (I waited years on the d90 nothing happened, I skipped the d7000 because the video was horrible, and now I'm on a d800 which is ok for web streams and fast workflow but it would be nice to have some raw and actually sharp footage not some interpolated mess)

I also believe SONY has some kind of agreement with Nikon that limits their use of video features . And I also believe this Magic Lantern is some stuff founded by Canon, the mkiii was low on sells (maybe not?, heard somewhere) and they had to take the video joker aka raw 2k.

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rfeuer
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Re: Magic Lantern and Nikon
In reply to Araucaria, May 14, 2013

Araucaria wrote:

No and probably there won't be any. There are some guys who hacked nikon firmwares but they aren't as big as magiclantern,etc...

I gues we will have to wait 10 years to get good video on our nikons (I don't plan on changing all my glass). Anyway, the magic lantern ppl could make all this raw 2k stuff because the canon actually was having that data stream for LV, if you compare the Live View stream between a Canon mkIII and a Nikon d800 you will see that even if there were some talented team hacking nikons they couldn't achieve the same.

The only way to have highquality video is by nikon writing a new live view engine and that's not going to happen (I waited years on the d90 nothing happened, I skipped the d7000 because the video was horrible, and now I'm on a d800 which is ok for web streams and fast workflow but it would be nice to have some raw and actually sharp footage not some interpolated mess)

I also believe SONY has some kind of agreement with Nikon that limits their use of video features . And I also believe this Magic Lantern is some stuff founded by Canon, the mkiii was low on sells (maybe not?, heard somewhere) and they had to take the video joker aka raw 2k.

Thank you so much for your reply.

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DPReview007
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Re: Magic Lantern and Nikon
In reply to rfeuer, May 15, 2013

Quick question on this. The D600 and D800 already output raw video, don't they? So why would we need to hack into them for that? Is the Canon's 14 bit raw video (after the Magic Lantner hack) off higher quality than what Nikon does out of the box?

Thanks!

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rfeuer
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Re: Magic Lantern and Nikon
In reply to DPReview007, May 15, 2013

DPReview007 wrote:

Quick question on this. The D600 and D800 already output raw video, don't they? So why would we need to hack into them for that? Is the Canon's 14 bit raw video (after the Magic Lantner hack) off higher quality than what Nikon does out of the box?

Thanks!

To my knowledge their software does more than just video output, much more stuff on thecamera side.

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Janne Kaasalainen
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Re: Magic Lantern and Nikon
In reply to DPReview007, May 15, 2013

Quick question on this. The D600 and D800 already output raw video, don't they? So why would we need to hack into them for that? Is the Canon's 14 bit raw video (after the Magic Lantner hack) off higher quality than what Nikon does out of the box?

Video terminology is somewhat complicated - but in short, D800 (or most of the other cameras) don't output raw even if they do output clean/uncompressed HDMI. Most of the differences are in chroma and luma sampling; internal recording is 8-bit 4:2:0 sampled, HDMI out is 8-bit 4:2:2 (recorded via Ninja for example) but this hack is talking about 14-bit 4:4:4 images, as far as I recall.

The difference is huge, a bit like comparing RAW image to a JPEG.

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my-2-cents
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Re: Magic Lantern and Nikon
In reply to Janne Kaasalainen, May 15, 2013

Janne Kaasalainen wrote:

The difference is huge, a bit like comparing RAW image to a JPEG.

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Janne Kaasalainen
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It is huge indeed. Check these out:

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/51469119

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/51462459

The links to samples in those posts are fantastic.

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Fella
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Re: Magic Lantern and Nikon
In reply to my-2-cents, May 15, 2013

The new magic lantern hack is pretty serious news. It puts the canon 5d firmly back at the top of the dslr pack for film makers now that they can shoot raw video.
The Gh2 hack sold a lot of GH2's and Magic Lantern is now going to do the same for Canon
As a beginner film maker and long time user of nikon gear for photography, this news has me seriously thinking about whether to switch to canon - I don't need to yet, there are way bigger gains to be made for me in learning the craft that there is in amazing dynamic range and no white balance worries. But I think there are a lot of people out there who consider themselves to be competent who will be very keen on a raw capable 5D
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_sem_
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Re: Magic Lantern and Nikon
In reply to Janne Kaasalainen, May 16, 2013

Janne Kaasalainen wrote:

Quick question on this. The D600 and D800 already output raw video, don't they? So why would we need to hack into them for that? Is the Canon's 14 bit raw video (after the Magic Lantner hack) off higher quality than what Nikon does out of the box?

Video terminology is somewhat complicated - but in short, D800 (or most of the other cameras) don't output raw even if they do output clean/uncompressed HDMI. Most of the differences are in chroma and luma sampling; internal recording is 8-bit 4:2:0 sampled, HDMI out is 8-bit 4:2:2 (recorded via Ninja for example) but this hack is talking about 14-bit 4:4:4 images, as far as I recall.

The difference is huge, a bit like comparing RAW image to a JPEG.

But the raw recording fills flash cards at a very fast rate, and incurs heavy postprocessing. The main advantage compared to standard high-bitrate video is the increased dynamic range.

However, general impression is that the camera makers mostly don't feel that DR is the most important thing in the camera business, as they don't appear to be struggling very hard to make use of all the DR the current sensors give. Panasonic can't get that DR because their sensors don't capture it. But Nikon could almost match it if they could apply online ADL processing? High-end productions may prefer the processing flexibility of raw-recorded material, but the majority of users would probably prefer an instant DR extension with no storage and post-processing overhead...

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Rservello
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Re: Magic Lantern and Nikon
In reply to _sem_, 8 months ago

Janne Kaasalainen wrote:

Quick question on this. The D600 and D800 already output raw video, don't they? So why would we need to hack into them for that? Is the Canon's 14 bit raw video (after the Magic Lantner hack) off higher quality than what Nikon does out of the box?

Video terminology is somewhat complicated - but in short, D800 (or most of the other cameras) don't output raw even if they do output clean/uncompressed HDMI. Most of the differences are in chroma and luma sampling; internal recording is 8-bit 4:2:0 sampled, HDMI out is 8-bit 4:2:2 (recorded via Ninja for example) but this hack is talking about 14-bit 4:4:4 images, as far as I recall.

The difference is huge, a bit like comparing RAW image to a JPEG.

But the raw recording fills flash cards at a very fast rate, and incurs heavy postprocessing. The main advantage compared to standard high-bitrate video is the increased dynamic range.

However, general impression is that the camera makers mostly don't feel that DR is the most important thing in the camera business, as they don't appear to be struggling very hard to make use of all the DR the current sensors give. Panasonic can't get that DR because their sensors don't capture it. But Nikon could almost match it if they could apply online ADL processing? High-end productions may prefer the processing flexibility of raw-recorded material, but the majority of users would probably prefer an instant DR extension with no storage and post-processing overhead...

So, what's wrong with giving users a choice?
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cpkuntz
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Re: Magic Lantern and Nikon
In reply to _sem_, 8 months ago

If I recall correctly from reading some threads at the ML site, h.264 video from the 5D Mark III uses 3:1pixel binning and then cropping to downsize from the 5760x3840 native pixel dimensions to 1920x1080 for a video frame.  While this limits the amount of moire and aliasing in the output, it also makes the native 5D Mark III video soft compared to methods that use line skipping, such as on the 5D Mark II and Nikon D800.  Native 5D Mark III video has to be sharpened to look remotely sharp.  On top of that, the compression performed by the h.264 makes the video rather horribly soft and mushy.  So in addition to dynamic range, a big advantage of raw output when using the 5D Mark III is that the video is once again sharp.  The raw footage has apparently already been pixel binned, so I'm not sure what kind of voodoo is going on, but it looks dramatically sharper than h.264 footage.  Without ML, the 5D3 is a bit of a stinker in the video department (as it kind of is in the stills dept, too, at least compared to Nikon's offerings in terms of dynamic range and resolution).

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