Fuji X30 wants

Started May 13, 2013 | Discussions
prime
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Re: Fuji X30 wants
In reply to evoprox, Jul 12, 2013

evoprox wrote:

Well, agreed on the length as the critical dimension regarding 'compactness' (vs. diameter) and thus pretty much depends on how collapsible such a lens could be realised - see your XF1, the X10/20 or any of the current 10+X super stretch travel zoom snappers (1/2.3" sensors). I'd rather see some of the long end/versatility sacrificed, e.g. 3x (28-84mm) instead of 4x (28-112mm) if they only keep the f2-2.8 84 vs. 112mm wouldn't be too much of a loss in my book (all my current FF lenses fall in that range).

I belong to the "reach" contingent: if a varifocal lens is to be 3x, I should prefer 37-111 to 28-84.  I find 99% of photos taken at focal lengths shorter than 35 mm (equivalent) to be distractingly cluttered, self-consciously mannered, and generally annoying.  My benchmark for the reach at the long end of a varifocal camera lens is the Olympia Sonnar 180 mm f/2.8 prime lens that Leni Riefenstahl used to such stunning effect in Triumph of the Will.  My ideal zoom lens would go from 28 mm (equivalent; yes, there are times when wide is needed) to 180 mm (equivalent), with a digital zoom booster of one Fibonacci increment (1.61803x).

For me the only reason to upgrade from my trusty X10 would be a one-inch sensor together with a reasonably fast and flexible lens, even if it would be somewhat larger. I have no need for yet another half-assed 2/3" follow-up.

Fujinon (lens division of the Fujifilm Group) has been making lenses for 2/3" sensors for a long time. The current standard HD television camera has a 2/3" sensor; and if you watched the Olympics on television over the past 49 years, you watched most of the Olympics through Fujinon television camera lenses, which dominate the sports television camera market. Most of the recent lens designs of that genre have been specifically made for 2/3" sensors, and are decidedly not half-assed.

But, back to the compact-if-not-quite-pocketable still camera segment, making a lens collapsible depends largely on closing air spaces within the lens. The X10/X20 lens has eleven elements in nine groups, and I am not certain that it could be made much more collapsible than it already is if the design were scaled up to a larger size to illuminate a 1" sensor.

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CAcreeks
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EXR
In reply to Trollshavethebestcandy, Jul 12, 2013

I will abandon EXR when they pry it out of my cold, dead fingers.

X-Trans is dumb. Another example of NIH stupidity. Haven't the patents on Bayer sensor expired? Fujifilm does not need to invent something ridiculous of their own.

Sorry I did not read all the posts because I have lost interest in the X20 and whatever follows with X-Trans sensor.

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evoprox
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Re: Fuji X30 wants
In reply to prime, Jul 12, 2013

prime wrote:

I belong to the "reach" contingent: if a varifocal lens is to be 3x, I should prefer 37-111 to 28-84. I find 99% of photos taken at focal lengths shorter than 35 mm (equivalent) to be distractingly cluttered, self-consciously mannered, and generally annoying.

I know what you mean, Prime. I just sold my 19mm Sigma (28mm FF) as I haven't used it once in six months. On a compact camera however I find 28mm useful for some casual stuff here and there but I'd be OK with a 37-111mm too. AFAIR I had something like it on my IXUS 430/Powershot S410, my first digital snapper and as mentioned before all the lenses in my current collection fall into the range between 42 and 135mm FF equiv.

My benchmark for the reach at the long end of a varifocal camera lens is the Olympia Sonnar 180 mm f/2.8 prime lens that Leni Riefenstahl used to such stunning effect in Triumph of the Will. My ideal zoom lens would go from 28 mm (equivalent; yes, there are times when wide is needed) to 180 mm (equivalent), with a digital zoom booster of one Fibonacci increment (1.61803x).

For me the only reason to upgrade from my trusty X10 would be a one-inch sensor together with a reasonably fast and flexible lens, even if it would be somewhat larger. I have no need for yet another half-assed 2/3" follow-up.

Fujinon (lens division of the Fujifilm Group) has been making lenses for 2/3" sensors for a long time. The current standard HD television camera has a 2/3" sensor; and if you watched the Olympics on television over the past 49 years, you watched most of the Olympics through Fujinon television camera lenses, which dominate the sports television camera market. Most of the recent lens designs of that genre have been specifically made for 2/3" sensors, and are decidedly not half-assed.

I meant the X20, not the lens. I've called the lens on the X10/X20 superb more than once.

But, back to the compact-if-not-quite-pocketable still camera segment, making a lens collapsible depends largely on closing air spaces within the lens. The X10/X20 lens has eleven elements in nine groups, and I am not certain that it could be made much more collapsible than it already is if the design were scaled up to a larger size to illuminate a 1" sensor.

Depending on the optical design a lens for a 1" inch sensor doesn't have to be significantly longer, if at all than one for a 2/3" sensor. My guessing would go that Fuji would make heavy use of electronic glass, so to speak, as they did on your XF1. BTW, I've been offered a Nikon V1 kit for 200€ yesterday but rather wait for what Fuji might come up with. Who knows ?

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tehkei
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Upgrade to X-M1?
In reply to Trollshavethebestcandy, Jul 12, 2013

Why not just upgrade to an X-M1?

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ci-lee
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Re: Fuji X30 wants
In reply to evoprox, Jul 13, 2013

evoprox wrote:

Agreed on the bigger sensor, preferably one-inch. The body doesn't necessarily need to be significantly larger - see m43 snappers like the E-PL5 or APS-C cameras like the NEX series. However the lens for a one-inch sensor would be somewhat larger than that on the X10/X10 if it'd keep the current specs - 28-112mm (FF equiv)/f2-2.8. For me that lens is just perfect as it is, an extended zoom range or faster openings would quickly make it too large for a 'compact' camera. Just let me add that I have something of a gut feeling that the X30 will come with an EVF instead of the current OVF; a deciding feature that would set it even further apart from Sony's soap boxes and other high-end compacts. The modules get cheaper, smaller and better with each generation, we'll get 100% coverage instead of the current 85%, no more parallax errors and corners covered by an extended lens and/or hoods. An EVF doesn't need more space than the current OVF, just some more juice so it's about time to give that camera a decent, ergonomic grip with enough space to hold a bigger battery. Go Fuji !

I like the way you think...larger sensor , bigger battery and EVF with remaing specs same as the X20!  Part of me wishes for a larger than 1"sensor design but agree that size would become overwhelming...but what if it had a Canon G1X size sensor (X-Trans of course). I'd settle for f2.0-4.0 if it were possible -or- even 24-85mm equiv. @ f2.0-2.8 if the trade-off wasensors significantly larger sensor.

on the ultimate wish list, just add - weather sealed, interval shooting, wifi (better app please for remote function, in-camera preview and batch transferring).  And why is Pentax/Ricoh the only maker using the TAV mode...one of the (many) reasons I ordered a Ricoh GR...

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Pan Jurek Mr Jerry
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Re: Fuji X30 wants
In reply to ci-lee, Jul 13, 2013

They need an articulating or a tilting screen.

Better LCD resolution and keep the Optical view finder with the information display.

ci-lee wrote:

evoprox wrote:

Agreed on the bigger sensor, preferably one-inch. The body doesn't necessarily need to be significantly larger - see m43 snappers like the E-PL5 or APS-C cameras like the NEX series. However the lens for a one-inch sensor would be somewhat larger than that on the X10/X10 if it'd keep the current specs - 28-112mm (FF equiv)/f2-2.8. For me that lens is just perfect as it is, an extended zoom range or faster openings would quickly make it too large for a 'compact' camera. Just let me add that I have something of a gut feeling that the X30 will come with an EVF instead of the current OVF; a deciding feature that would set it even further apart from Sony's soap boxes and other high-end compacts. The modules get cheaper, smaller and better with each generation, we'll get 100% coverage instead of the current 85%, no more parallax errors and corners covered by an extended lens and/or hoods. An EVF doesn't need more space than the current OVF, just some more juice so it's about time to give that camera a decent, ergonomic grip with enough space to hold a bigger battery. Go Fuji !

I like the way you think...larger sensor , bigger battery and EVF with remaing specs same as the X20! Part of me wishes for a larger than 1"sensor design but agree that size would become overwhelming...but what if it had a Canon G1X size sensor (X-Trans of course). I'd settle for f2.0-4.0 if it were possible -or- even 24-85mm equiv. @ f2.0-2.8 if the trade-off wasensors significantly larger sensor.

on the ultimate wish list, just add - weather sealed, interval shooting, wifi (better app please for remote function, in-camera preview and batch transferring). And why is Pentax/Ricoh the only maker using the TAV mode...one of the (many) reasons I ordered a Ricoh GR...

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ci-lee

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Pan Jurek Mr Jerry
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Re: Fuji X30 wants
In reply to Pan Jurek Mr Jerry, Jul 16, 2013

Two other great features to have would be:

1.)  The ability to create folders so that one could separate pictures by location, subject, etc..

So when one uploads the pictures to a computer, the pictures would be grouped by Folder

and not just one big upload.

2.)  The ability to include a digital Copyright and/or Watermark in camera so that it becomes

a part of the EXIF data.

NOTE:  This relates to Item NUmber 2 below:  If an articulating screen would be too much then a tilting screen would be great.

**Please Please keep the Viewfinder as it is in the X20.  I like the fact that it displays information.  I do not like to look @ the LCD.  This make the camera so much more like a DSLR.

Thank you. 

Pan Jurek Mr Jerry wrote:

What I would like to see is the following:

1.) A bigger sensor.

2.) An articulating screen.

3.) A choice of styles; like with the X20.

4.) Two different versions:  X30A Normal with any updates like the double exposure update for  the X20 and a X30B A Black & White / Sepia version with all the updates that the X30B gets too.

5.) A longer zoom.  More wider and more tele. (20 - 140)

6.) A faster lens with a constant appature of F/1.4

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evoprox
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Re: Fuji X30 wants
In reply to ci-lee, Jul 16, 2013

ci-lee wrote:

evoprox wrote:

Agreed on the bigger sensor, preferably one-inch. The body doesn't necessarily need to be significantly larger - see m43 snappers like the E-PL5 or APS-C cameras like the NEX series. However the lens for a one-inch sensor would be somewhat larger than that on the X10/X10 if it'd keep the current specs - 28-112mm (FF equiv)/f2-2.8. For me that lens is just perfect as it is, an extended zoom range or faster openings would quickly make it too large for a 'compact' camera. Just let me add that I have something of a gut feeling that the X30 will come with an EVF instead of the current OVF; a deciding feature that would set it even further apart from Sony's soap boxes and other high-end compacts. The modules get cheaper, smaller and better with each generation, we'll get 100% coverage instead of the current 85%, no more parallax errors and corners covered by an extended lens and/or hoods. An EVF doesn't need more space than the current OVF, just some more juice so it's about time to give that camera a decent, ergonomic grip with enough space to hold a bigger battery. Go Fuji !

I like the way you think...larger sensor , bigger battery and EVF with remaing specs same as the X20! Part of me wishes for a larger than 1"sensor design but agree that size would become overwhelming...but what if it had a Canon G1X size sensor (X-Trans of course). I'd settle for f2.0-4.0 if it were possible -or- even 24-85mm equiv. @ f2.0-2.8 if the trade-off wasensors significantly larger sensor.

on the ultimate wish list, just add - weather sealed, interval shooting, wifi (better app please for remote function, in-camera preview and batch transferring). And why is Pentax/Ricoh the only maker using the TAV mode...one of the (many) reasons I ordered a Ricoh GR...

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ci-lee

Actually so called one-inch sensors like the RX100 or Nikon 1s measure 13,2 x 8,8 mm (3:2), not quite one inch. The sensor in Canon's G1X measures 19 x 14mm - it's ~2.3 times larger.

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particleman78
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Re: Fuji X30 wants
In reply to Trollshavethebestcandy, Jul 17, 2013

If they could source the 20mp 1'' RX100 sensor from Sony and implement EXR, that would be my dream compact camera.  EXR on a 20mp sensor would still yield 10mp files, that would be plenty of resolution with the low noise and dynamic range of EXR.

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Trollshavethebestcandy
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Re: Fuji X30 wants
In reply to Trollshavethebestcandy, 11 months ago

Same everything and approx size but 1" Xtrans sensor.
I can't see them getting much more out of this size sensor that they have without diminishing returns.

http://m.flickr.com/#/photos/76178219@N07/10053909505/

Is this it?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

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RMCN
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Re: Fuji X30 wants
In reply to Trollshavethebestcandy, 11 months ago

Looks like an X10 - has EXR on mode selection dial

While I'm here, my hopes for the X30:

1" 16MP 3:2 aspect ratio sensor

EVF

Manual Zoom lens to start at 24 mm Equivalent w Constant f 2.0

ND filter

Flash that tilts up

Wi-Fi

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Lmendy
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Re: Fuji X30 wants
In reply to RMCN, 10 months ago

RMCN wrote:

Looks like an X10 - has EXR on mode selection dial

While I'm here, my hopes for the X30:

1" 16MP 3:2 aspect ratio sensor

EVF

Manual Zoom lens to start at 24 mm Equivalent w Constant f 2.0

ND filter

Flash that tilts up

Wi-Fi

Throw in a tilting LCD, at least 3 inches and resolution at least 1.4 million.  Good optical viewfinder with electronic overlay and auto parallax correction.  Should look and feel like the X10, but slightly larger.  Fuji should offer an accessory vertical grip.   Good low light handling with DXO mark exceeding 1000 iso (or more).  Lens should accept standard size filters that are easily available.

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Lmendy
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Re: Fuji X30 wants
In reply to Lmendy, 10 months ago

A few more

Make it 24mm (35mm equivalent) on the wide end.

Although I could live with 12 megapixels, how about 16 megapixels.

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Elyharbour
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Re: Fuji X30 wants
In reply to Lmendy, 10 months ago

Or stick a Fujifilm badge on an RX10. Seems like the latter fulfills most of the needs above. I don't know why people think the RX100 is the competition.

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Lmendy
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Re: Fuji X30 wants
In reply to Elyharbour, 10 months ago

Elyharbour wrote:

Or stick a Fujifilm badge on an RX10. Seems like the latter fulfills most of the needs above. I don't know why people think the RX100 is the competition.

RX10 does not have an optical viewfinder and the lens (as far as I know) moves by an electronic control.  I am an old timer I want optical viewfinder and manual control over the zoom.  I also prefer colors from Fuji vs Sony and rangefinder build.

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Elyharbour
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Re: Fuji X30 wants
In reply to Lmendy, 10 months ago

True and so do I 

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VaLeX
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Re: Fuji X30 wants
In reply to Trollshavethebestcandy, 10 months ago

A radically different approach, inspired by the new APS-C Sigma 17-35 F 1.8 lens.

My ideal camera would be a Fuji X20 with a tweaked sensor, but a 27-95 (3.5 X) F1.8 constant aperture lens. Make it weather proof and with a tilt LCD and I'm sold! And maybe some more information in the optical viewfinder.

So basically I want a radically new lens

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lacro
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Re: Fuji X30 wants
In reply to VaLeX, 10 months ago

VaLeX wrote:

A radically different approach, inspired by the new APS-C Sigma 17-35 F 1.8 lens.

My ideal camera would be a Fuji X20 with a tweaked sensor, but a 27-95 (3.5 X) F1.8 constant aperture lens. Make it weather proof and with a tilt LCD and I'm sold! And maybe some more information in the optical viewfinder.

So basically I want a radically new lens

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Though your proposal seems interesting, VaLeX, I wouldn't demand much more on the current 28-112mm FUJINON F2.0-2.8 4x Lens... than a new range of aorund 24, 25 or even 26 through 120 @ F 2.0 constant aperture lens (if feasable), along with a much better and bigger sensor. 
What I found I mostly appreciate in this X-X0 line, is the overall experience.

Rgds, C

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xeriwthe
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Re: Fuji X30 wants
In reply to Trollshavethebestcandy, 10 months ago

Trollshavethebestcandy wrote:

Same everything and approx size but 1" Xtrans sensor.
I can't see them getting much more out of this size sensor that they have without diminishing returns.

yes, same size body, 1" sensor, slightly larger lens, with lesser aperture/zoom range, like 2.8 - 4.0, 28-85mm. a sort of mini kit x-e1 with collapsible fixed lens. i'm still a fan of ovf, maybe a good hybrid ovf with x100s style movable frame guidelines.

and x-trans, this could be the downfall of it all, but i'd love to see what fujifilm can do with a 20mp 1" x-trans implementation. i am a fuji fanboy for life

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lacro
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Re: Fuji X30 wants
In reply to xeriwthe, 10 months ago

To make a long story short, a smaller X100S with a fixed ZOOM lens 24-120 with constant 2.0.

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