Any interest in a line of Prime Landscape lenses?

Started May 13, 2013 | Discussions
ExposureMeter
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Re: Any interest in a line of Prime Landscape lenses?
In reply to Canyongazer, May 15, 2013

A 16 or 18mm prime with a 77mm filter would be very nice

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Dennis
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Re: Zoom zoom zoom
In reply to Canyongazer, May 15, 2013

Canyongazer wrote:

Didn't Edward Weston claim something like  There are no good picture opportunities more than 500 yards from the car. ?  I lean on that from time to time!

I haven't heard that quote, but a lot of landscape photography certainly seems to subscribe to that.

I've heard many great things about the 14-28.  I've never been much of a WA shooter, even when I did a lot of nature photography.  My widest lens (shooting film) was a 17-35 after owning a 21-35 for several years, and I rarely ever shot it wider than around 20mm.  But a D800 based kit for landscape photography sounds like a dream kit.

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turbsy
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Re: Any interest in a line of Prime Landscape lenses?
In reply to ChristianHass, May 15, 2013

ChristianHass wrote:

The Voigtlander 20mm f3.5 also fits the description.

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The 20mm f3.5 is not very good on full frame. Bad flare resistance and bad corners.

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turbsy
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Re: Any interest in a line of Prime Landscape lenses?
In reply to calson, May 15, 2013

calson wrote:

For anyone shooting with the D600/D800 cameras the best image quality is going to be at f8 for any lens that is used. Refraction is much more of a problem with these need ultra high resolution sensor cameras.

The 14-24mm f2.8 zoom is sharper than the Nikon 14mm f2.8, 18mm f2.8, and 24mm f1.4 prime lenses at any aperture. The same applies to the 24-70mm f2.8 Nikon zoom when used at landscape apertures.

The 14-24mm is months sharper then the 24mm f1.4.  Where're are you getting that info from?  And what lens are you saying the 24-70mm is sharper then?

With windblown dust a concern the last thing I want is to replace 2 zoom lenses with 5 prime lenses so I can change lenses 2-3 times as often and let more dust inside the camera.

Prime lenses provided superior image quality to zooms in the 1970's but times change. The only reason for prime now is for a fisheye, PC, macro, or super telephoto lens. I do not use any of these types of lenses for landscape photography. The PC has value but with the new ability to combine multiple images and focus points in Photoshop has eliminated the need for my purposes.

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turbsy
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Re: That is silly and insulting.
In reply to brightcolours, May 15, 2013

brightcolours wrote:

Canyongazer wrote:

Yes, you are right, Christian, the 20mm 3.5 Voigtlander ticks some of the boxes...unfortunately its appealing pancake size (52mm filter thread) contributes to less than stellar performance (as I've read...I don't own one.)

I use a Nikon 2.8 AF-D....it's pretty good on a D700, on a tripod at 8. 62mm filters...Nikon had an MF 20mm f4 with a 72mm thread so progress marches on.

What I am speculating about is a new line of landscape lenses that will be a good match for the D800E and the  other monster MP camera that come down the line.

Some inside the box folks think diffraction is an insurmountable problem.  They may be right but I hope not.

Inside the box?? That is just one big insult. That you have no idea about diffraction is your own issue, and you can overcome that by education. Diffraction is just physics. Nothing more, nothing less.

http://ww2010.atmos.uiuc.edu/(Gh)/guides/mtr/opt/mch/diff.rxml

http://csep10.phys.utk.edu/astr162/lect/light/ref-diff.html

http://www.universetoday.com/89409/diffraction-of-light/

About the Voigtlander 20mm f3.5 SLII, you have read wrong information. It actually is a very nice lens, just with quite strong vignetting wide open. but as you are a photographer who likes to use lenses stopped down, that should not be a problem.

http://www.echenique.com/index.php/2010/02/02/cv-color-skopar-20mm-review/

That is the only review I have seen (not much of a review really) that gives the 20mm f3.5 a passing grade on fx.  It has bad corners and bad flare.  I was really hoping that this would be a good fit on my d800 but it really isn't.

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brightcolours
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Try it
In reply to turbsy, May 15, 2013

turbsy wrote:

brightcolours wrote:

Canyongazer wrote:

Yes, you are right, Christian, the 20mm 3.5 Voigtlander ticks some of the boxes...unfortunately its appealing pancake size (52mm filter thread) contributes to less than stellar performance (as I've read...I don't own one.)

I use a Nikon 2.8 AF-D....it's pretty good on a D700, on a tripod at 8. 62mm filters...Nikon had an MF 20mm f4 with a 72mm thread so progress marches on.

What I am speculating about is a new line of landscape lenses that will be a good match for the D800E and the  other monster MP camera that come down the line.

Some inside the box folks think diffraction is an insurmountable problem.  They may be right but I hope not.

Inside the box?? That is just one big insult. That you have no idea about diffraction is your own issue, and you can overcome that by education. Diffraction is just physics. Nothing more, nothing less.

http://ww2010.atmos.uiuc.edu/(Gh)/guides/mtr/opt/mch/diff.rxml

http://csep10.phys.utk.edu/astr162/lect/light/ref-diff.html

http://www.universetoday.com/89409/diffraction-of-light/

About the Voigtlander 20mm f3.5 SLII, you have read wrong information. It actually is a very nice lens, just with quite strong vignetting wide open. but as you are a photographer who likes to use lenses stopped down, that should not be a problem.

http://www.echenique.com/index.php/2010/02/02/cv-color-skopar-20mm-review/

That is the only review I have seen (not much of a review really) that gives the 20mm f3.5 a passing grade on fx.  It has bad corners and bad flare.  I was really hoping that this would be a good fit on my d800 but it really isn't.

Try it on your D800, you will be (pleasantly) surprised. This little lens is better than you think.

http://soundimageplus.blogspot.nl/2012/07/nikon-d800e-and-voigtlander-sl-ii.html

http://dreuxsawyer.blogspot.nl/2011/12/review-voigtlander-color-skopar-20mm.html

http://www.clubsnap.com/forums/nikon/1214577-nikon-20mm-f2-8d-vs-viogtlander-20mm-f3-5-sii.html

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turbsy
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Re: Try it
In reply to brightcolours, May 15, 2013

brightcolours wrote:

turbsy wrote:

brightcolours wrote:

Canyongazer wrote:

Yes, you are right, Christian, the 20mm 3.5 Voigtlander ticks some of the boxes...unfortunately its appealing pancake size (52mm filter thread) contributes to less than stellar performance (as I've read...I don't own one.)

I use a Nikon 2.8 AF-D....it's pretty good on a D700, on a tripod at 8. 62mm filters...Nikon had an MF 20mm f4 with a 72mm thread so progress marches on.

What I am speculating about is a new line of landscape lenses that will be a good match for the D800E and the  other monster MP camera that come down the line.

Some inside the box folks think diffraction is an insurmountable problem.  They may be right but I hope not.

Inside the box?? That is just one big insult. That you have no idea about diffraction is your own issue, and you can overcome that by education. Diffraction is just physics. Nothing more, nothing less.

http://ww2010.atmos.uiuc.edu/(Gh)/guides/mtr/opt/mch/diff.rxml

http://csep10.phys.utk.edu/astr162/lect/light/ref-diff.html

http://www.universetoday.com/89409/diffraction-of-light/

About the Voigtlander 20mm f3.5 SLII, you have read wrong information. It actually is a very nice lens, just with quite strong vignetting wide open. but as you are a photographer who likes to use lenses stopped down, that should not be a problem.

http://www.echenique.com/index.php/2010/02/02/cv-color-skopar-20mm-review/

That is the only review I have seen (not much of a review really) that gives the 20mm f3.5 a passing grade on fx.  It has bad corners and bad flare.  I was really hoping that this would be a good fit on my d800 but it really isn't.

Try it on your D800, you will be (pleasantly) surprised. This little lens is better than you think.

http://soundimageplus.blogspot.nl/2012/07/nikon-d800e-and-voigtlander-sl-ii.html

http://dreuxsawyer.blogspot.nl/2011/12/review-voigtlander-color-skopar-20mm.html

http://www.clubsnap.com/forums/nikon/1214577-nikon-20mm-f2-8d-vs-viogtlander-20mm-f3-5-sii.html

None of those links give me thew impression that it is very good on fx.  The first link has square  cropped images.  The second says its great for dx but not as good for fx and the third is useless. I really want this lens to work but my only option i think is the zeiss 21mm

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kenwj
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Re: Any interest in a line of Prime Landscape lenses?
In reply to Canyongazer, May 15, 2013

Factor in sensor defraction also.  When the circle of confusion exceeds the pixel pitch things get a bit fuzzy.  My D700 sensor is defraction limited at about F11.  My D800 is limited at about f7.5.

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InTheMist
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Re: Any interest in a line of Prime Landscape lenses?
In reply to kenwj, May 18, 2013

I just use a kit or convenience zoom at f8. Every lens is great at f8, but your question is intriguing!

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Big Ga
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Re: That is silly and insulting.
In reply to turbsy, May 18, 2013

turbsy wrote:

brightcolours wrote:

About the Voigtlander 20mm f3.5 SLII, you have read wrong information. It actually is a very nice lens, just with quite strong vignetting wide open. but as you are a photographer who likes to use lenses stopped down, that should not be a problem.

http://www.echenique.com/index.php/2010/02/02/cv-color-skopar-20mm-review/

That is the only review I have seen (not much of a review really) that gives the 20mm f3.5 a passing grade on fx.  It has bad corners and bad flare.  I was really hoping that this would be a good fit on my d800 but it really isn't.

You say "it really isn't"

Have you actually tried one yourself?

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Big Ga
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Re: Any interest in a line of Prime Landscape lenses?
In reply to ExposureMeter, May 18, 2013

ExposureMeter wrote:

A 16 or 18mm prime with a 77mm filter would be very nice

A 52mm filter size would be even nicer 

There is a version of a tokina 17mm prime (af as well!) that has a 77mm thread.

I have it and its a big bugger. That's why I know I would like one with a 52mm thread LOL ....

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Dodi73
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Re: Whah?
In reply to brightcolours, May 18, 2013

brightcolours wrote:

Canyongazer wrote:

As we know, most lenses hit peak performance when stopped down two or three stops from max aperture.  Coupled with the desire of, admittedly most, for big holes when wide open, this leads to largish, heavy lenses with best performance typically at about f 4. It also means great Depth of Field is gained at the expense of inferior lens performance.

Hmm, Which lenses have best performance at f4? Lenses usually do not have best  performance wide open. When you close down, many lens elements only use a central part, improving sharpness. But it is DIFFRACTION which lowers resolution when you close down more and more. Diffraction caused by the small hole the light has to pass through, and the distance of that aperture which influences how big the diffraction impact will be.

I disagree here. Sure, most lenses are optimized to work best at 2 - 3 stops below their maximum aperture, yet designing a f/4 lens offers you the possibility to tame several problems in an easier way, besides do exist lenses optimized to work at their best wide open (even if it's not the purpose of this one) - Zeiss and Leica docet with the 50 f/1.5 sonnar or the new 50 apo Leica. It's a matter of costs, rather. Surely a lens optimized for working at its best wide open costs much more than one where peak performance is reached two or three stops below.

Since most landscape photographers often prefer to be in f 8 to f16 territory and favor smaller, lighter gear, would they --- would you --- be attracted to a Landscape Series of primes with maximum apertures of f 4?

Only for the weight loss.

Even if not exactly f/16, I do would for the above reasons. I prefer a slower and better lens than a superfast one full of issues costing two to three times the former. While Zeiss can do its superb 15 f/2.8 (as well the 21 is well regarded, technically speaking) the 18 f/3.5 is strangely the weakest of the three. I'd go for a f/4 or f/4.5 if it would mean having a nearly perfect lens as the Biogon 21 ZM f/4.5 is. Such wide angles can deal with much slower shutter times without risking blur (while optimum iq is achieved on a tripod and release cable, surely times as 1/30s or 1/15s with a wide are much easily dealt than with a 50 or 100 mm)

These lenses could be small, light, high performers peaking at, perhaps, f 11 for the shorter, f 16 for the longer ones.

Impossible. The only reason your above example lens loses resolution above f4 (wonder which camera has such high res. that f4 will show max. resolution...) is due to diffraction. You can't have lenses that show no diffraction softening at f11 or f16.

They should be relatively easy to design and build, selling for significantly less than their f 1.4 / f 2 counterparts.

20, 30, 50, 90mm?

Zeiss ZF2 18/4 (redesign) would be enough, at least for me. Also a 21 f/4.5 (despite different from its biogon counterpart) would be a very welcome and less expensive option.

Perhaps it would represent too small a potential market for Nikon or even Sigma. Perhaps not.

Voigtlander? Zeiss?  They don't even have to be autofocus.

What do you think?

I think you just do not have enough knowledge about lenses, and are oblivious to what diffraction is and does. Which is not bad, there are many things I do not know either. But yeah. read up on what diffraction is, and how it lowers resolution.

Well, I do agree with you here, although I think we often worry too much about it. Both my ZF2 lenses work greatly even stopped down.. if there's diffraction, well, it's so low I don't notice it in practice.

My son, ZF2 2/35 - f/16.. what's REALLY wrong with it ?

ZF2 2/25 - f/22 close focusing, my son again.. if there are issues here it's not lack of sharpness as-is

ZF2 2/25, f/22 - playful group in Loreto, Italy. Wanna examine 100% pixels? Sure you will always find something wrong. Is it relevant? To my eye, not at all.

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I'm on the NIK side of photography.

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