Canon Digital Lens Optimizer (DLO)

Started May 12, 2013 | Discussions
TTMartin
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Canon Digital Lens Optimizer (DLO)
May 12, 2013

Canon Digital Lens Optimizer

Great explanation of optical issues, and instructions on how to use DLO.

Following the directions the results are truly amazing.

(Thanks to whomever posted the link in another thread)

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TANWare
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Re: Canon Digital Lens Optimizer (DLO)
In reply to TTMartin, May 12, 2013

it figures though the standard lenses are not included.  know they say the data base will expand but it has not to the standard lenses or at least the is versions of the 28-135 and 70-300 as kit lenses or otherwise. Since these are the usual packaged lenses you would think Canon would do this to have a one up on Nikon.

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TTMartin
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Re: Canon Digital Lens Optimizer (DLO)
In reply to TANWare, May 12, 2013

TANWare wrote:

it figures though the standard lenses are not included.  know they say the data base will expand but it has not to the standard lenses or at least the is versions of the 28-135 and 70-300 as kit lenses or otherwise. Since these are the usual packaged lenses you would think Canon would do this to have a one up on Nikon.

All the new STM lenses are on there. I have a EF 40mm f/2.8 STM and tried it out on some pictures from that lens. The results are really impressive!

I would like to see the EF 28-135 lens also. And the EF 50mm f/1.8 and the EF-S 18-55 IS

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Player9
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Re: Canon Digital Lens Optimizer (DLO)
In reply to TTMartin, May 12, 2013

I think DLO works well.  It would be great if all Canon lenses were supported, but at least it works with the 18-135mm lens that was the kit lens on my 60D.  It also works with the 10-22 that I owned before I got the 60D.  My main lens is the Tamron 17-50mm, but I use Lightroom 4 to do the RAW conversions when I'm working with shots using that lens.

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TDR1
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Re: Canon Digital Lens Optimizer (DLO)
In reply to TTMartin, May 12, 2013

TTMartin wrote:

Canon Digital Lens Optimizer

Great explanation of optical issues, and instructions on how to use DLO.

Following the directions the results are truly amazing.

(Thanks to whomever posted the link in another thread)

Are the results as good as the examples on the Canon site indicates?

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Muresan Bogdan
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Re: Canon Digital Lens Optimizer (DLO)
In reply to TDR1, May 12, 2013

Did anybody compare it with the DXO RAW conversion? How does it hold up?

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asad137
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Re: Canon Digital Lens Optimizer (DLO)
In reply to TDR1, May 12, 2013
Are the results as good as the examples on the Canon site indicates?

In my experience, yes with a caveat: If there is noise in the image, the DLO algorithm will create odd artifacts (similar to what you might get using too strong an unsharp mask). For low-noise images it is really excellent; with higher noise images you will have to make a personal judgement between the extra sharpening and the added artifacts (DLO can be applied as a percentage).

Edit to add: Many of the example shots shown on the Canon side are taken at very small apertures (f/22 and the like) where diffraction is the dominant source of image fuzziness. In these cases, a more traditional sharpening method (like an unsharp mask) is likely to work nearly as well as DLO, because diffraction is a more-or-less symmetrical effect and whose transfer function can be approximated by the gaussian blurring in an unsharp mask algorithm.

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TTMartin
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Re: Canon Digital Lens Optimizer (DLO)
In reply to asad137, May 12, 2013

asad137 wrote:

Are the results as good as the examples on the Canon site indicates?

In my experience, yes with a caveat: If there is noise in the image, the DLO algorithm will create odd artifacts (similar to what you might get using too strong an unsharp mask). For low-noise images it is really excellent; with higher noise images you will have to make a personal judgement between the extra sharpening and the added artifacts (DLO can be applied as a percentage).

Edit to add: Many of the example shots shown on the Canon side are taken at very small apertures (f/22 and the like) where diffraction is the dominant source of image fuzziness. In these cases, a more traditional sharpening method (like an unsharp mask) is likely to work nearly as well as DLO, because diffraction is a more-or-less symmetrical effect and whose transfer function can be approximated by the gaussian blurring in an unsharp mask algorithm.

I did my tests on three shot made with a Canon EOS Digital Rebel XTi and EF 40mm f/2.8 STM lens. Shots were taken at 1/200, f/5.6 and ISO 100. That camera and lens combination doesn't deliver distance information. In two of pictures there was a small feature in the outer 3rd of the image that I wanted to be as sharp as possible. I set all sharpening and noise reduction to 0. I set the strength to around 75. I moved the distance slider back and forth using the preview to find where that feature was as sharp as possible.

Unfortunately, I did not keep an unaltered copy of the RAW file so I don't have before and after shots. But, the results on both the feature and the overall photo was quite noticeable.

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MisterPootieCat
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DLO is cool, and a couple points
In reply to TTMartin, May 12, 2013

TTMartin wrote:

Canon Digital Lens Optimizer

Great explanation of optical issues, and instructions on how to use DLO.

Following the directions the results are truly amazing.

(Thanks to whomever posted the link in another thread)

The list of supported lenses is not current, and support for TC's is now available.

I was playing with DLO for images shot with the EF-S 17-85 and found the results were very good, bringing out detail in the corners when shooting at the wide end of the lens.

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007peter
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is DLO only available with RAW via DPP?
In reply to TTMartin, May 13, 2013

Thanks for showing me the link to that very educational DLO explanation.  I'm very impressed by what I"m seeing.   I"m a 100% jpeg shooter, I don't have any experience with DPP or Lightroom processing.

I have some dumb question I need to ask:

1. Am I correct to assume that DLO is a DPP trick, so its neither available from 3rd party Raw Software like Lightroom

2. If I shoot JPEG, and I still open that JPEG file in DPP and use DLO to sharpen the image???

sorry for the dumb questions

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MisterPootieCat
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DLO only available with RAW via DPP.
In reply to 007peter, May 13, 2013

Only available with full sized RAW files from supported bodies and lenses. DxO Pro does the same thing but has a much larger database of lenses and bodies, and it will work with JPEG images.

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TTMartin
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Re: DLO only available with RAW via DPP.
In reply to MisterPootieCat, May 13, 2013

MisterPootieCat wrote:

Only available with full sized RAW files from supported bodies and lenses. DxO Pro does the same thing but has a much larger database of lenses and bodies, and it will work with JPEG images.

And DxO Optics Pro costa $200-$300 (depending on crop or full frame) compared to FREE for Canon DLO in DPP.

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meland
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Re: DLO only available with RAW via DPP.
In reply to MisterPootieCat, May 13, 2013

MisterPootieCat wrote:

Only available with full sized RAW files from supported bodies and lenses. DxO Pro does the same thing but has a much larger database of lenses and bodies, and it will work with JPEG images.

I'm not sure DXO is advanced as DPP in this respect.  Most correction systems such as LR and PP only use a general lens correction. Only Canon has access to the mathematical models it used in creating its lenses originally and therefore the ability to use that data in designing the software to correct aberrations for each lens at each focal length (including for zooms) and aperture.

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ptigris
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Re: DLO only available with RAW via DPP.
In reply to meland, May 13, 2013

There is also a small feature on DLO here -

http://www.andrewsgibson.com/blog/2012/04/dpps-digital-lens-optimiser/

Paul

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MAC
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Re: DLO only available with RAW via DPP.
In reply to ptigris, May 13, 2013

ptigris wrote:

There is also a small feature on DLO here -

http://www.andrewsgibson.com/blog/2012/04/dpps-digital-lens-optimiser/

Paul

I use lightroom as article says.  Many more lenses

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MisterPootieCat
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Re: DLO only available with RAW via DPP.
In reply to TTMartin, May 13, 2013

TTMartin wrote:

MisterPootieCat wrote:

Only available with full sized RAW files from supported bodies and lenses. DxO Pro does the same thing but has a much larger database of lenses and bodies, and it will work with JPEG images.

And DxO Optics Pro costa $200-$300 (depending on crop or full frame) compared to FREE for Canon DLO in DPP.

Well, someone asked if third party software had the same or similar functionality. And third party generally infers it's not free. I think 98% of the people know that.

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MisterPootieCat
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Re: DLO only available with RAW via DPP.
In reply to meland, May 13, 2013

meland wrote:

MisterPootieCat wrote:

Only available with full sized RAW files from supported bodies and lenses. DxO Pro does the same thing but has a much larger database of lenses and bodies, and it will work with JPEG images.

I'm not sure DXO is advanced as DPP in this respect.  Most correction systems such as LR and PP only use a general lens correction. Only Canon has access to the mathematical models it used in creating its lenses originally and therefore the ability to use that data in designing the software to correct aberrations for each lens at each focal length (including for zooms) and aperture.

Not true. DxO physically tests every camera body and lens combination when producing the lens modules. Their database covers considerably more bodies and lenses but Canon is adding lenses with each new version of DPP. Even the original Digital Rebel and the original kit lens are in the DxO database. And it works with JPEG, Canon's DLO does not.

I think the DLO module does a great job, assuming you meet all the prerequisites (Full RAW and supported hardware). The list of supported lenses is getting better, and lens/TC combinations were just recently added.

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meland
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Re: DLO only available with RAW via DPP.
In reply to MisterPootieCat, May 13, 2013

MisterPootieCat wrote:

meland wrote:

MisterPootieCat wrote:

Only available with full sized RAW files from supported bodies and lenses. DxO Pro does the same thing but has a much larger database of lenses and bodies, and it will work with JPEG images.

I'm not sure DXO is advanced as DPP in this respect.  Most correction systems such as LR and PP only use a general lens correction. Only Canon has access to the mathematical models it used in creating its lenses originally and therefore the ability to use that data in designing the software to correct aberrations for each lens at each focal length (including for zooms) and aperture.

Not true. DxO physically tests every camera body and lens combination when producing the lens modules. Their database covers considerably more bodies and lenses but Canon is adding lenses with each new version of DPP. Even the original Digital Rebel and the original kit lens are in the DxO database. And it works with JPEG, Canon's DLO does not.

Despite this do you think that DXO knows as much about lens design as Canon and knows how to correct the specific aberrations, or has access to Canon's design models to be able to do so?

I think the DLO module does a great job, assuming you meet all the prerequisites (Full RAW and supported hardware). The list of supported lenses is getting better, and lens/TC combinations were just recently added.

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MisterPootieCat
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Re: DLO only available with RAW via DPP.
In reply to meland, May 13, 2013

meland wrote:

MisterPootieCat wrote:

meland wrote:

MisterPootieCat wrote:

Only available with full sized RAW files from supported bodies and lenses. DxO Pro does the same thing but has a much larger database of lenses and bodies, and it will work with JPEG images.

I'm not sure DXO is advanced as DPP in this respect.  Most correction systems such as LR and PP only use a general lens correction. Only Canon has access to the mathematical models it used in creating its lenses originally and therefore the ability to use that data in designing the software to correct aberrations for each lens at each focal length (including for zooms) and aperture.

Not true. DxO physically tests every camera body and lens combination when producing the lens modules. Their database covers considerably more bodies and lenses but Canon is adding lenses with each new version of DPP. Even the original Digital Rebel and the original kit lens are in the DxO database. And it works with JPEG, Canon's DLO does not.

Despite this do you think that DXO knows as much about lens design as Canon and knows how to correct the specific aberrations, or has access to Canon's design models to be able to do so?

I think the DLO module does a great job, assuming you meet all the prerequisites (Full RAW and supported hardware). The list of supported lenses is getting better, and lens/TC combinations were just recently added.

If DxO takes a lens and a body in to a test lab then I think the result would be probably as good or maybe even better. How do we know what steps Canon takes to create the DLO lens modules? Is it based on actual testing of the various lenses or "mathematical models"?

I'm not trying to convince anyone to buy DxO Pro, I've used it off and on over the years but was always put off by instability problems. Maybe the newer version has addressed this issue?

Lens aberration correction isn't new, but I'm pleased to see Canon offering it with DPP now. I use DPP for roughly 98% of my editing.

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meland
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Re: DLO only available with RAW via DPP.
In reply to MisterPootieCat, May 13, 2013

MisterPootieCat wrote:

meland wrote:

MisterPootieCat wrote:

meland wrote:

MisterPootieCat wrote:

Only available with full sized RAW files from supported bodies and lenses. DxO Pro does the same thing but has a much larger database of lenses and bodies, and it will work with JPEG images.

I'm not sure DXO is advanced as DPP in this respect.  Most correction systems such as LR and PP only use a general lens correction. Only Canon has access to the mathematical models it used in creating its lenses originally and therefore the ability to use that data in designing the software to correct aberrations for each lens at each focal length (including for zooms) and aperture.

Not true. DxO physically tests every camera body and lens combination when producing the lens modules. Their database covers considerably more bodies and lenses but Canon is adding lenses with each new version of DPP. Even the original Digital Rebel and the original kit lens are in the DxO database. And it works with JPEG, Canon's DLO does not.

Despite this do you think that DXO knows as much about lens design as Canon and knows how to correct the specific aberrations, or has access to Canon's design models to be able to do so?

I think the DLO module does a great job, assuming you meet all the prerequisites (Full RAW and supported hardware). The list of supported lenses is getting better, and lens/TC combinations were just recently added.

If DxO takes a lens and a body in to a test lab then I think the result would be probably as good or maybe even better. How do we know what steps Canon takes to create the DLO lens modules? Is it based on actual testing of the various lenses or "mathematical models"?

Look, even I can test a car and tell you (if I feel brave enough) whether it reaches its claimed maximum speed.  But that doesn't mean I can adjust the engine, gearing or anything else that would enable it to do so.  Or I can hook up an oscilloscope to a HiFi amplifier to tell you its frequency response.  But I can't necessarily modify that amplifier to change its characteristics.  Testing is one thing.  Being able to do something constructive with the test data is something entirely different.

You'll have to take my word for it on the fact that Canon uses its design data to create the DLO lens modules.

I'm not trying to convince anyone to buy DxO Pro, I've used it off and on over the years but was always put off by instability problems. Maybe the newer version has addressed this issue?

Maybe you've personally had some instability issues but no one I know has.

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