600RT Flash bug in new Canon 5DIII firmware.

Started May 12, 2013 | Discussions
MASTERPPA
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600RT Flash bug in new Canon 5DIII firmware.
May 12, 2013

I have found a  bug in Canon's new firmware.  Need more testers.

I have 2 Canon 5D3 Flashes. One was from March 2012, and the other December 2012 (so they are not the same batch)

I have two 600RT, one 2 months older then the other.

I used the 600RT and the two 5D bodies for 4 months, no problems over 40,000 shots taken. Updated to the new firmware last week.

I noticed my flash did not fire 100% as it had prior. Not as if was not accurate, as in DID NOT FIRE PERIOD. 4 different sets of battery, changed lenses, changed 600RT from camera to camera, same issue.

It can be made worst by putting the camera is HS sync. I found if I put my camera on HS sync, then turn the exposure down, the 1st 1 or 2 shots, the flash does not fire. The EXIF says "NO FLASH" as if it is no on the camera.

NOTE: It is NOT low battery, or the batter NOT recycling.  1st, they are flesh, 2nd, I was testing at ISO 6400 10 feet from a wall 3rd, some of the test where 10 seconds from flash to flash.

It will still do it even when not using HS sync, but it is more like 1 in 10-20 shots. (I am not shooting rapid fire, and like I said, shooting at ISO 6400, which means the flash is using very little of its full power..

Here is the where the BUG is. When you put the camera in manual focus, OR turn off the IR, it works fine.

What it appears has happened, is when Canon updated the IR, since it was slowing down focus, it created a bug.

I need someone else to verify this since I only have 2 5D3 and 2 600RT.  So if anyone out there has a 5D3 and a 600RT, contact me.  ESP if you have NOT updated the firmware.

There is no workaround, and it does this even when the cameras are radio slaved to each other.

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Muresan Bogdan
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Re: 600RT Flash bug in new Canon 5DIII firmware.
In reply to MASTERPPA, May 12, 2013

You can find the old firmware on the Canon website I believe. Try flashing back the old firmware and do the same test procedure. If the problem is only with the new 1.2 firmware, write Canon about it. I have the 5d3 but not the 600 flash so it is hard to test. I will test with my flashes and see what happens.

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MASTERPPA
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Re: 600RT Flash bug in new Canon 5DIII firmware.
In reply to Muresan Bogdan, May 12, 2013

Old firmware is not on site. I am a CPS member so I talked to the 24/7 tech. He said to call them on Monday, when all the techs are in, and see if they can reproduce the problem.

The tech did say they did make changes to the way the IR works. I find it interesting that when I turn the IR OFF (which I cannot do all the time) the flash works PERFECTLY.

He also said, downgrading MAY cause a problem..UGH

Muresan Bogdan wrote:

You can find the old firmware on the Canon website I believe. Try flashing back the old firmware and do the same test procedure. If the problem is only with the new 1.2 firmware, write Canon about it. I have the 5d3 but not the 600 flash so it is hard to test. I will test with my flashes and see what happens.

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Dan Marchant
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Re: 600RT Flash bug in new Canon 5DIII firmware.
In reply to MASTERPPA, May 12, 2013

MASTERPPA wrote:

Old firmware is not on site.

Doesn't the update process include a backup of the old firmware? Would be a rather badly implemented system if it doesn't. If it does then you will have the old firmware in whichever hard to find folder they hid the back-up in.

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Muresan Bogdan
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Re: 600RT Flash bug in new Canon 5DIII firmware.
In reply to MASTERPPA, May 12, 2013

I was inspired enough to save the old firmware before upgrading so you you PM your email I will send you the 1.1.3 version.

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MASTERPPA
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Re: 600RT Flash bug in new Canon 5DIII firmware.
In reply to Muresan Bogdan, May 12, 2013

GOOD IDEA..

It seems this problem is ONLY with a 600EXRT with the 5D3 with the new firmware.

Something to do with the AF IR.

So if you do not have a 5D3, 600EXRT combo, and are shooting manual focus, OR turned the IR off, the problem does not exists.

Anyone who reads this will not see it except with this combo of settings.  I know why I did not see it on my DAYTIME shoot right after I installed the firmware.  Because the IR was not firing.  Last night, I had a night wedding, so the IR was needed the whole time, and it was ever 10 or 15th shot.  BRAND NEW BATTERIES, and on BOTH cameras.

It is a bug, I spend 6 hours last night testing it, and writing a detailed report.  I even spoke to a Canon Tech at 2:30am last night. He said to call on Monday and explain how I causes it to happened and they will try and reproduce it.

Muresan Bogdan wrote:

I was inspired enough to save the old firmware before upgrading so you you PM your email I will send you the 1.1.3 version.

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MASTERPPA
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Re: 600RT Flash bug in new Canon 5DIII firmware.
In reply to MASTERPPA, May 13, 2013

Hello, ok, I will be having a LONG talk with the Canon tech. I am pretty sure I have found a minor bug in their new firmware.

I testing it on a camera with the new firmware for 6 hours. Out of 300 shots, the flash did not fire on 20 of them (new batteries, HIGH ISO, etc, etc. Changed flashes, changed cameras, etc) this only seems to happen with the 5D3, new firmware with the 600 EXRT.

I DOWNGRADE back to the prior firmware and INSTANTLY the problem is gone. It is not common and most of the time it is one flash in 20, sometimes it happens twice in a row, but that is rare.

I ran the cameras NEXT to the each, and the cam with the new firmware error about 5 times over 40 shots. The new firmware did not do it ONCE out of 60 shots.

If I turn the IR off, the new firmware works FINE.  It is the IR update part of the firmware with the 600EX RT.

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David Hull
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Re: 600RT Flash bug in new Canon 5DIII firmware.
In reply to MASTERPPA, May 13, 2013

So, I have a 5DIII and two 600EX-RT Flashes but having read through all of this, it is not really clear what the problem is of the steps to reproduce it.  Can you put up a description of the exact issue and the steps needed to reproduce it?  I looked and I don't have the old FW for some reason.

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MASTERPPA
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Re: 600RT Flash bug in new Canon 5DIII firmware.
In reply to David Hull, May 13, 2013

Hello. Here is a way to do a quick test.

Make sure your IR is turned on, on the flash.

Put the camera on ISO 3200, shutter 200. (even though it does it at ANY ISO, and ANY SHUTTER, this is to make sure its not your batteries recharging that is causing the flash NOT to fire)

Make sure you are in AF. Make sure the room is DARK, so the IR is needed to focus. When the IR is not needed,  turned off or in MF, the flash problem does not happened at all.

Take about 50 shots in NON-HS sync. If you take then at about 1 shot per second, the flash should fire every time (make sure you batteries are fresh in the flash, etc)

You will find some of the times the flash does not fire. But this is the RARE side of the error. I found a way to make it happen more often.

Set the flash at 0. Turn on HS sync, then -1 the flash (I set the flash with the wheel only to + or - it, instead of hitting the center button, then the wheel)

You 1st HS sync flash 1/3 of the time will NOT fire, and sometimes it will do it twice in a row. I had over 10% of my shots last night MISS, as in the flash did not FIRE.

Most of them was with HS SYNC OFF, and in a dark room.

Both of my cameras had flash fire inconsistances, no matter the lens, or body. AS SOON as I downgraded the firmware back to the older version, the problem disappeared completely.  The new firmware camera STILL DOES IT.

I am sure it is due to the change in the IR that WAS added to the new firmware. Since not everyone shoots with the IR light on, shoot with a 550 or 580 flash, they may not have the problem. Someone with a 430ex does not have the issue, and it looks like it does not happen on the 580.

The ONLY pattern I have found is 5D3, newest firmware, 600EX-RT, IR on, and in a dark room that needs the IR for the camera to focus. This is why I missed it before. A lot of my shooting after the upgrade was outdoors..  It took a night wedding to run into it.

David Hull wrote:

So, I have a 5DIII and two 600EX-RT Flashes but having read through all of this, it is not really clear what the problem is of the steps to reproduce it.  Can you put up a description of the exact issue and the steps needed to reproduce it?  I looked and I don't have the old FW for some reason.

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David Hull
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Re: 600RT Flash bug in new Canon 5DIII firmware.
In reply to MASTERPPA, May 13, 2013

MASTERPPA wrote:

Hello. Here is a way to do a quick test.

Make sure your IR is turned on, on the flash.

Put the camera on ISO 3200, shutter 200. (even though it does it at ANY ISO, and ANY SHUTTER, this is to make sure its not your batteries recharging that is causing the flash NOT to fire)

Make sure you are in AF. Make sure the room is DARK, so the IR is needed to focus. When the IR is not needed,  turned off or in MF, the flash problem does not happened at all.

Take about 50 shots in NON-HS sync. If you take then at about 1 shot per second, the flash should fire every time (make sure you batteries are fresh in the flash, etc)

You will find some of the times the flash does not fire. But this is the RARE side of the error. I found a way to make it happen more often.

Set the flash at 0. Turn on HS sync, then -1 the flash (I set the flash with the wheel only to + or - it, instead of hitting the center button, then the wheel)

You 1st HS sync flash 1/3 of the time will NOT fire, and sometimes it will do it twice in a row. I had over 10% of my shots last night MISS, as in the flash did not FIRE.

Most of them was with HS SYNC OFF, and in a dark room.

Both of my cameras had flash fire inconsistances, no matter the lens, or body. AS SOON as I downgraded the firmware back to the older version, the problem disappeared completely.  The new firmware camera STILL DOES IT.

I am sure it is due to the change in the IR that WAS added to the new firmware. Since not everyone shoots with the IR light on, shoot with a 550 or 580 flash, they may not have the problem. Someone with a 430ex does not have the issue, and it looks like it does not happen on the 580.

The ONLY pattern I have found is 5D3, newest firmware, 600EX-RT, IR on, and in a dark room that needs the IR for the camera to focus. This is why I missed it before. A lot of my shooting after the upgrade was outdoors..  It took a night wedding to run into it.

David Hull wrote:

So, I have a 5DIII and two 600EX-RT Flashes but having read through all of this, it is not really clear what the problem is of the steps to reproduce it.  Can you put up a description of the exact issue and the steps needed to reproduce it?  I looked and I don't have the old FW for some reason.

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I'll try to find a bit of time to try this.  I did some initial testing with the hew FW and I never noticed it not firing but I didn't fire a lot of shots like that.  I did notice that it changes its red pattern depending on how the AF point is set.  What AF point setup do you have selected (CP, I presume?).

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MASTERPPA
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Re: 600RT Flash bug in new Canon 5DIII firmware.
In reply to David Hull, May 13, 2013

Yea, center only. Since the IR changes, it may only do it with center, but never tried it.  I may video we testing it at some point tomorrow after I talk to Canon. I do see how it can be missed on SOME testing. I was in PURE DARKNESS last night, and ever shot needed the IR to focus.

Who knows. There maybe some other stupid setting that I have on camera that makes it happen.  I am going to try putting on the color filter, and change the flash to evaluate, instead of average, etc.

I DID reset both flashes to DEFAULT and it did NOT help. The flash acts like the batteries are not recharged, BUT, it also does it on the 1st shot sometimes, (the flash was NOT sleeping, it had been 20-30 secs since the last shot, and the flash LCD was STILL ON)

I'll try to find a bit of time to try this.  I did some initial testing with the hew FW and I never noticed it not firing but I didn't fire a lot of shots like that.  I did notice that it changes its red pattern depending on how the AF point is set.  What AF point setup do you have selected (CP, I presume?).

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alFR
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Re: 600RT Flash bug in new Canon 5DIII firmware.
In reply to MASTERPPA, May 27, 2013

Did you ever resolve this with Canon? Did they acknowledge it as a bug or give you a fix?

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MASTERPPA
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Re: 600RT Flash bug in new Canon 5DIII firmware.
In reply to alFR, May 27, 2013

Hello, they contact me, and I sent them all the details, then nothing yet. Been 2 weeks.

I can tell you this, it existed in both my cameras, and as soon as a downgraded back to the old firmware, 3 weddings later, the problem was GONE.

I am better we will see a minor fix in the future firmware.

alFR wrote:

Did you ever resolve this with Canon? Did they acknowledge it as a bug or give you a fix?

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alFR
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Re: 600RT Flash bug in new Canon 5DIII firmware.
In reply to MASTERPPA, May 27, 2013

Thanks. Be interesting to hear what they say if they ever do come back to you.

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Zee Char
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Re: 600RT Flash bug in new Canon 5DIII firmware.
In reply to MASTERPPA, May 27, 2013

Hmmm. Several wedding pros at POTN did not report this. In fact they said AF assist beam is working better after the FW update. I'll have to try it.

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SubPrime
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Re: 600RT Flash bug in new Canon 5DIII firmware.
In reply to MASTERPPA, Jun 1, 2013

MASTERPPA wrote:

Hello, they contact me, and I sent them all the details, then nothing yet. Been 2 weeks.

I can tell you this, it existed in both my cameras, and as soon as a downgraded back to the old firmware, 3 weddings later, the problem was GONE.

I am better we will see a minor fix in the future firmware.

alFR wrote:

Did you ever resolve this with Canon? Did they acknowledge it as a bug or give you a fix?

I can confirm the same problem.  Is there a way to turn of IR on the flash?

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MASTERPPA
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Re: 600RT Flash bug in new Canon 5DIII firmware.
In reply to Zee Char, Jun 12, 2013

I have now heard 2 other confirmed cases, but Canon has NOT gotten back to me.  From what I know, all the specs are the SAME. 5D3, IR on, VERY VERY DARK ROOM, 600RT FLASH.

Zee Char wrote:

Hmmm. Several wedding pros at POTN did not report this. In fact they said AF assist beam is working better after the FW update. I'll have to try it.

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DotCom Editor
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Not likely, based on past history
In reply to MASTERPPA, Jun 13, 2013

MASTERPPA wrote:
...Canon has NOT gotten back to me.

Don't hold your breath waiting for Canon.

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MASTERPPA
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Re: Not likely, based on past history
In reply to DotCom Editor, Jun 13, 2013

Yea, wont return email in timely manner..  But I know this, it is a bug. Confirmed on at least 4 camera already.

DotCom Editor wrote:

MASTERPPA wrote:
...Canon has NOT gotten back to me.

Don't hold your breath waiting for Canon.

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Zee Char
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Re: Not likely, based on past history
In reply to MASTERPPA, Jun 13, 2013

MASTERPPA wrote:

Yea, wont return email in timely manner.. But I know this, it is a bug. Confirmed on at least 4 camera already.

DotCom Editor wrote:

MASTERPPA wrote:
...Canon has NOT gotten back to me.

Don't hold your breath waiting for Canon.

I posted this link at POTN so the two wedding pros can read it. Also I have not seen this mentioned at Canon Rumours Forums or Canon Forums where it first came up. People at Canon forums were pretty vocal about the AF delay. I have not heard a peep about this.  I'll post it there and see.

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