Is it better for me to shoot JPEG as opposed to RAW if I dont do any PP?

Started May 8, 2013 | Discussions
WilbaW
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Re: Is it better for me to shoot JPEG as opposed to RAW if I dont do any PP?
In reply to mfait, May 10, 2013

mfait wrote:

WilbaW wrote:

You can extract the embedded JPEGs from a batch of raw files (the same JPEGs you would have got if you shot raw+JPEG),

Not true on my XSi and probably not true on most dSLR's.

RAW+JPG give me a 12 MP JPG file.  However the JPG image embedded in the RAW file is about 3 MP.

Right! I was thinking of the 60D.

So... you can extract a low-res JPEG from the raw file, which is plenty good enough for evaluation and sharing.

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WilbaW
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No I didn't
In reply to jayrandomer, May 10, 2013

jayrandomer wrote:

mfait wrote:

WilbaW wrote:

You can extract the embedded JPEGs from a batch of raw files (the same JPEGs you would have got if you shot raw+JPEG),

Not true on my XSi and probably not true on most dSLR's.

RAW+JPG give me a 12 MP JPG file.  However the JPG image embedded in the RAW file is about 3 MP.

With DPP you should be able to generate the same JPEG that you would have generated in camera from the raw file, assuming you match the settings in your camera.  You also have the opportunity to develop something you like better than what you would have with the camera.

That's true but it's not what I meant. 

RAW+JPEG saves you from having to do that RAW conversion, but that's about it.

That's true too. 

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WilbaW
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Re: What I don't understand is the reluctance to use PP software to alter an image.
In reply to DSHAPK, May 10, 2013

DSHAPK wrote:

Because there are times I don't need raw. I bought the best camera to have a choice. The t4i with its digic 5 processor produces great jpgs. Why should I post process when the camera gets it right 99% of the time?

Do you have home insurance? Why not save your money when your house is not going to burn down on 99.999% of days?

It all depends on your definition of "right". I bet yours is different to mine, and that's okay, but no-one can insist that their "right" is good enough or necessary for every other photographer.

I'm an amateur taking amateur photos, not a pro shooting a wedding. Why download hundreds of 18 meg files, if not needed?

Yeah, use the format that meets your needs.

I think you've answered a different question to the one Oilman asked.

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scrup
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Re: Personal Preference Really
In reply to Smiller4128, May 10, 2013

It depends on what I shoot. If they are important images that are keepers then I will shoot in RAW. If they are random images for other people they will be in JPG. Most of my friends don't want to deal with software and conversion.

RAW is like the negative and JPG is like the print.

RAW images are just more forgiving when it comes to PP.

It is a little bit like filter and no filter debate.

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R2D2
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Re: What I don't understand is the reluctance to use PP software to alter an image.
In reply to WilbaW, May 10, 2013

WilbaW wrote:

It all depends on your definition of "right". I bet yours is different to mine, and that's okay, but no-one can insist that their "right" is good enough or necessary for every other photographer.

+1

I've gotta agree with you here WilbaW.... (aaaargh!) 

I've been doing this a long long time, and I've never met an image I couldn't tweak a bit to "improve" (ie adjust to better suit my vision).

R2

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jayrandomer
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The embedded JPEG isn't necessarily the JPEG you'd get from the camera
In reply to Olga Johnson, May 10, 2013

Olga Johnson wrote:

jayrandomer wrote:

mfait wrote:

WilbaW wrote:

Smiller4128 wrote:

am I still better off shooting RAW?

Unless you're perfectly happy with what you get out of the camera and that's all you'll ever need, you're always better off shooting raw. You can extract the embedded JPEGs from a batch of raw files (the same JPEGs you would have got if you shot raw+JPEG),

Not true on my XSi and probably not true on most dSLR's.

RAW+JPG give me a 12 MP JPG file.  However the JPG image embedded in the RAW file is about 3 MP.

With DPP you should be able to generate the same JPEG that you would have generated in camera from the raw file, assuming you match the settings in your camera.  You also have the opportunity to develop something you like better than what you would have with the camera.

RAW+JPEG saves you from having to do that RAW conversion, but that's about it.

He does not mean "develop".  There is always a JPG embedded in a raw file.

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Olga

but it's possible to develop that exact JPEG from the RAW.  That's what I thought he meant.  You are right in that not being what he meant, but what he meant was wrong, at least for some cameras.

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demarren 123
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Re: Is it better for me to shoot JPEG as opposed to RAW if I dont do any PP?
In reply to paparios, May 10, 2013

paparios wrote:

paparios wrote:

Smiller4128 wrote:

I don't really believe in using any PP software to alter an image too much. If I do, it's to lighten/darken certain parts of an image or to enhance the color a tad if it's been brought down by haze and such. I'm wondering though if maybe I'm better off using JPEG as opposed to RAW since the camera will automatically makes adjustments to the image? Or am I still better off shooting RAW?

Well, sometimes it helps,.....a lot. In the example below, one friend used my camera to take a picture, without adjusting the exposure (the camera was in manual). Using RAW and Lightroom 4.2, I was able to adjust the exposure (by 4.3 stops) and get  at least a viewable result.

Miguel

Another example, this time with High ISO. The original without PP, using DPP. The second processed through Lightroom.

Miguel

Yes but you can do this with JPG to.lightroom have A white balance picker.

It is just A white balance problem you corrected.

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WilbaW
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Re: What I don't understand is the reluctance to use PP software to alter an image.
In reply to R2D2, May 10, 2013

R2D2 wrote:

WilbaW wrote:

It all depends on your definition of "right". I bet yours is different to mine, and that's okay, but no-one can insist that their "right" is good enough or necessary for every other photographer.

+1

I've gotta agree with you here WilbaW.... (aaaargh!) 

Go on, you know you want to. 

I've been doing this a long long time, and I've never met an image I couldn't tweak a bit to "improve" (ie adjust to better suit my vision.

Right, vision - I don't know what that is until I manipulate the image in the raw converter.

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WilbaW
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Re: The embedded JPEG isn't necessarily the JPEG you'd get from the camera
In reply to jayrandomer, May 10, 2013

jayrandomer wrote:

... what he meant was wrong, at least for some cameras.

That's a bit negative. Can we agree that it's not true for all cameras? 

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jayrandomer
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I'll go further
In reply to WilbaW, May 10, 2013

WilbaW wrote:

jayrandomer wrote:

... what he meant was wrong, at least for some cameras.

That's a bit negative. Can we agree that it's not true for all cameras? 

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I'd say it's effectively true for all cameras, but not exactly true for some

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Klaus dk
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Re: Is it better for me to shoot JPEG as opposed to RAW if I dont do any PP?
In reply to demarren 123, May 10, 2013

demarren 123 wrote:

paparios wrote:

paparios wrote:

Smiller4128 wrote:

I don't really believe in using any PP software to alter an image too much. If I do, it's to lighten/darken certain parts of an image or to enhance the color a tad if it's been brought down by haze and such. I'm wondering though if maybe I'm better off using JPEG as opposed to RAW since the camera will automatically makes adjustments to the image? Or am I still better off shooting RAW?

Well, sometimes it helps,.....a lot. In the example below, one friend used my camera to take a picture, without adjusting the exposure (the camera was in manual). Using RAW and Lightroom 4.2, I was able to adjust the exposure (by 4.3 stops) and get  at least a viewable result.

Miguel

Another example, this time with High ISO. The original without PP, using DPP. The second processed through Lightroom.

Miguel

Yes but you can do this with JPG to.lightroom have A white balance picker.

It is just A white balance problem you corrected.

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Yes, but sometimes the jpg is so much off, that too much information is lost. With RAW you have much more headroom.

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Klaus dk
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Re: Personal Preference Really
In reply to scrup, May 10, 2013

scrup wrote:

It depends on what I shoot. If they are important images that are keepers then I will shoot in RAW. If they are random images for other people they will be in JPG. Most of my friends don't want to deal with software and conversion.

Sometimes you don't know it's a keeper until you have processed it. Shoot in RAW+JPEG. Only give JPEGs to your friends.

RAW is like the negative and JPG is like the print.

RAW images are just more forgiving when it comes to PP.

So why not? Memory cards are not that expensive, really?

It is a little bit like filter and no filter debate.

I don't agree. If the filter has introduced flare or blur, it might be impossible to get rid of and if the JPEGs are beyond repair, you can't recreate the RAW files. If you are satisfied with the JPEGs, you can throw away the RAW files.

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007peter
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Custom White Balance - Why Not "LEARN" to shoot right the 1st time?
In reply to demarren 123, May 10, 2013

demarren 123 wrote:

paparios wrote:

Another example, this time with High ISO. The original without PP, using DPP. The second processed through Lightroom.

Miguel

Yes but you can do this with JPG to.lightroom have A white balance picker.

Call me traditional, but I prefer the FILM METHOD - get it right the the 1st time!

You don't need RAW, you don't need photoshop.  Learn to use Custom White Balance, get it right the 1st time.  In the old days, people are more careful with their exposure/WB balance/ and composition.  Today, all we have is lazy shooter who fixed everything Photoshop.  Theser are not photographer, just software manipulator.

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Klaus dk
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Re: Custom White Balance - Why Not "LEARN" to shoot right the 1st time?
In reply to 007peter, May 10, 2013

007peter wrote:

Call me traditional, but I prefer the FILM METHOD - get it right the the 1st time!

You don't need RAW, you don't need photoshop.  Learn to use Custom White Balance, get it right the 1st time.  In the old days, people are more careful with their exposure/WB balance/ and composition.  Today, all we have is lazy shooter who fixed everything Photoshop.  Theser are not photographer, just software manipulator.

You have strong opinions. They need both a spellcheck and a raincheck.

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DSHAPK
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Re: Custom White Balance - Why Not "LEARN" to shoot right the 1st time?
In reply to 007peter, May 10, 2013

Actually I agree with this thought. Id rather have wb correct going in than to correct a multitude of pictures.

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DSHAPK
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Re: Personal Preference Really
In reply to Klaus dk, May 10, 2013

Klaus dk wrote:

scrup wrote:

It depends on what I shoot. If they are important images that are keepers then I will shoot in RAW. If they are random images for other people they will be in JPG. Most of my friends don't want to deal with software and conversion.

Sometimes you don't know it's a keeper until you have processed it. Shoot in RAW+JPEG. Only give JPEGs to your friends.

RAW is like the negative and JPG is like the print.

RAW images are just more forgiving when it comes to PP.

So why not? Memory cards are not that expensive, really?

It is a little bit like filter and no filter debate.

I don't agree. If the filter has introduced flare or blur, it might be impossible to get rid of and if the JPEGs are beyond repair, you can't recreate the RAW files. If you are satisfied with the JPEGs, you can throw away the RAW files.

it is personal preference. After shooting with the rebel line for over two years now, Im almost at the point I can set the camera to get my intended picture. I have a very good sense when to use raw for later processing and when it is unnecessary. I haven't lost a "keeper" shot in a while, but that does go with experience.

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Klaus dk
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Because sh*t happens!
In reply to DSHAPK, May 10, 2013

DSHAPK wrote:

Actually I agree with this thought. Id rather have wb correct going in than to correct a multitude of pictures.

I'm no different. I prefer to have everything correct in camera and I have no desire to waste time using whatever software to make up for bad exposure or WB. No way.

Most of my pictures are exposed in manual mode because I use studio strobes for them.

I have no desire to burn down the house, get robbed or be killed. But I have insurance nonetheless, and I urge my friends to have insurance too. Because sh*t happens.

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paparios
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Re: Is it better for me to shoot JPEG as opposed to RAW if I dont do any PP?
In reply to demarren 123, May 10, 2013

demarren 123 wrote:

paparios wrote:

paparios wrote:

Smiller4128 wrote:

I don't really believe in using any PP software to alter an image too much. If I do, it's to lighten/darken certain parts of an image or to enhance the color a tad if it's been brought down by haze and such. I'm wondering though if maybe I'm better off using JPEG as opposed to RAW since the camera will automatically makes adjustments to the image? Or am I still better off shooting RAW?

Well, sometimes it helps,.....a lot. In the example below, one friend used my camera to take a picture, without adjusting the exposure (the camera was in manual). Using RAW and Lightroom 4.2, I was able to adjust the exposure (by 4.3 stops) and get  at least a viewable result.

Miguel

Another example, this time with High ISO. The original without PP, using DPP. The second processed through Lightroom.

Miguel

Yes but you can do this with JPG to.lightroom have A white balance picker.

It is just A white balance problem you corrected.

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Well, actually no. If you check the exif of the picture, it was taken with the XTi at ISO3200, which means a lot of noise to control besides the WB.

While it is true that a JPG image can also be processed with good results, the processing of the JPG file (as opposed to using the RAW file) will produce some artifacts which are easy to see.

But more important to me is the fact that these PP tools are continuously being improved and produce outstanding results when applied to old pictures. I have used mainly DPP and Lightroom, since 2007, to process my pictures and I have found that a RAW picture originally processed with DPP in 2008, when I revisit it with the last version of Lightroom (or  DPP) the result is so much improved, like you have taken the frame with a different camera.

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DSHAPK
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Re: Because sh*t happens!
In reply to Klaus dk, May 10, 2013

Klaus dk wrote:

DSHAPK wrote:

Actually I agree with this thought. Id rather have wb correct going in than to correct a multitude of pictures.

I'm no different. I prefer to have everything correct in camera and I have no desire to waste time using whatever software to make up for bad exposure or WB. No way.

Most of my pictures are exposed in manual mode because I use studio strobes for them.

I have no desire to burn down the house, get robbed or be killed. But I have insurance nonetheless, and I urge my friends to have insurance too. Because sh*t happens.

Yes, stuff happens. But I have appropriate protections against stuff happening based on the degree of loss. Where I don't feel there is a loss,I have no protections.

i can apply this analogy to my picture tafamily as well. Not every shot I take is Ansel Adams, sometimes I just like taking a snap and it is what it is.

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demarren 123
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Re: Is it better for me to shoot JPEG as opposed to RAW if I dont do any PP?
In reply to Klaus dk, May 10, 2013

Klaus dk wrote:

demarren 123 wrote:

paparios wrote:

paparios wrote:

Smiller4128 wrote:

I don't really believe in using any PP software to alter an image too much. If I do, it's to lighten/darken certain parts of an image or to enhance the color a tad if it's been brought down by haze and such. I'm wondering though if maybe I'm better off using JPEG as opposed to RAW since the camera will automatically makes adjustments to the image? Or am I still better off shooting RAW?

Well, sometimes it helps,.....a lot. In the example below, one friend used my camera to take a picture, without adjusting the exposure (the camera was in manual). Using RAW and Lightroom 4.2, I was able to adjust the exposure (by 4.3 stops) and get  at least a viewable result.

Miguel

Another example, this time with High ISO. The original without PP, using DPP. The second processed through Lightroom.

Miguel

Yes but you can do this with JPG to.lightroom have A white balance picker.

It is just A white balance problem you corrected.

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Yes, but sometimes the jpg is so much off, that too much information is lost. With RAW you have much more headroom.

I totally agree if you print big,otherwise I see no reason to do so.

I also agree that you want to shoot raw.however I am not one of them.

I find raw to cumbersome but hey everyone is deference.

happy shooting

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