Windows 8 shocker

Started 11 months ago | Discussions
dmartin92
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Re: problems just like Vista ?
In reply to digital ed, 11 months ago

digital ed wrote:

My point re Win 8 exactly. Once you have a robust OS you can dress it up almost any way you want.

That's true too, but that is not to say that how it is dressed is an insignificant issue. At least not in the long run.

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digital ed
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Re: problems just like Vista ?
In reply to dmartin92, 11 months ago

dmartin92 wrote:

digital ed wrote:

My point re Win 8 exactly. Once you have a robust OS you can dress it up almost any way you want.

That's true too, but that is not to say that how it is dressed is an insignificant issue. At least not in the long run.

That allows MS to tweak or significantly change the GUI any time they like. Market pressure may do force this.

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dradam
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Re: problems just like Vista ?
In reply to dmartin92, 11 months ago

dmartin92 wrote:

digital ed wrote:

My point re Win 8 exactly. Once you have a robust OS you can dress it up almost any way you want.

That's true too, but that is not to say that how it is dressed is an insignificant issue. At least not in the long run.

Public opinion, unfortunately, is also a major factor.  By the time Win7 came out, Vista was a very stable, quite decent OS, but it was simply never able to shake the stigma.  That's why it is so unfortunate that a small group of people that others happen to listen to when making computer buying decisions were so emotionally negative right out of the gate.

I truly think that Windows 8 is a very good operating system that offers not only intriguing possibilities in the future, but also immediate advantages to the non-tech savvy consumer, but it may never get the chance it deserves.

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Sean Nelson
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Re: problems just like Vista ?
In reply to dradam, 11 months ago

dradam wrote:

That's why it is so unfortunate that a small group of people that others happen to listen to when making computer buying decisions were so emotionally negative right out of the gate.

I don't think that's the big cause of Windows 8's problems right now.  I think the big cause is that people who try it on desktop machines can't figure it out because they're not used to the new interface style and because there's no obvious way for them to get to the traditional interface.   Sure, it's possible to set up a desktop system to avoid that problem - but that doesn't happen in retail stores.

Then they see Windows 8 ads with those blocky colourful tiles, recall their frustrating experience, and grumble to their friends about how stupid it is.  That's entirely Microsoft's fault for not making the classic interface the default on systems without a touch screen.

I don't think the problem is as big on touch devices like phones and tablets because people are pretty used to how they work, or at least they don't expect them to work the same, and they're more likely to try things like swiping from the edges that are counter-intuitive for desktop systems.   The big problem on mobile devices is the lack of apps.

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Jim Cockfield
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Re: You're making my point
In reply to raminolta, 11 months ago

raminolta wrote:

I guess we differ in our opinion on Windows 8 being unintuitive. To me, it just has some differences from the previous windows that requires some learning: some people are unhappy with the learning curve and some just don't like the difference. I wouldn't call it less intuitive than previous Windows.

C'mon now.  You can't possibly believe that.

Most Windows users would have trouble even figuring out how to log in for the first time, without using google or similar and/or readkg through reviews, watching video tutorials, etc.

Heck, needing to swipe up and down is so different than other Operating Systems, it's nuts, and needing to do something like that with a desktop UI is even crazier.   The UI developers at Microsoft must have been out of their mind to design a login screen like that for a desktop to begin with.

Even for touch screen devices (as any way you look at it, it's a crazy design for non-touch displays), I can't figure out why in the world MS would have designed it that with vertical swipes, unless it's because of patent issues (where swiping left to right or vice-versa may end up in lawsuits).

That's a good example of why our patent system is very broken; and Microsoft is a large part of that problem, too (heck, from what I understand, they're making a lot of money off of Android devices being sold now, too -- thanks to "strong arm" tactics with threats of lawsuits from their legal staff , where smaller companies are just going to submit to blackmail tactics to avoid the legal fights and pay license fees to Microsoft, since they don't have the resources to fight it)

That's a darn shame that software is in that kind of shape, with fear of  legal issues preventing better products from being introduced.

But, even when users figure out how to login to Win 8, it's far from intuitive to use (and that's being nice about it).

Once you start a new style app, even little things like closing it is not very obvious (an understatement), not to mention the way the new style apps using screen real estate. That's why some reviewers refer to Win 8 as Microsoft Window (singular) versus Microsoft Windows.

When users actually get to the more traditional desktop to run the apps they want to use, even finding a menu system is another hurdle they need to overcome, trying to figure out how to get their mouse in the corners for that purpose, or to the right side to bring up the "charms bar".

Sure, that's intuitive [scarcasm].  IOW, after a lot of trial and error time and/or reading about it in reviews, they may finally figure it out (with a high frustration level and/or  an increasing hatred for the UI design).

Then, when they finally figure out how to get to something resembling an icon for a menu, they're just dumped back into the new style, tile based start screen again.

Sheesh.  I could go on and on about lack of a decent menu heirachy (where you may end up with pages of tiles for larger apps because every little utility or language pack installer is shown, whereas the Win 7 start menu had a subfolder structure so that you could see the main app, and all of the extra programs were in different subfolders in the menu structure.  Yet, Win 8 eliminated that kind of menu structure in the new tile based system.

Heck, an average user is going to have a hard time even figuring out how to shut down Windows 8.

"I wouldn't call it less intuitive than previous Windows."

You've got to be joking.  I've been using computers for a very long time; and Windows 8 has got to have least intuitive user interface I've ever seen.

Talking about bad first impressions... Win 8 is a "poster child" for how not to develop an operating system's user interface.

As per comparison between Linux and Windws 8, I perceive there is a significant difference: first bad impression of Windows on some is because it became somewhat visually different. However, nothing is really broken (at least at the level that is observable to most users), while in Linux distros, one  has to deal with things that are broken and don't work.

That depends on the distro.  As already mentioned in my previous post, if you're using an Ubuntu based distro, it's based on a snapshot of Debian Unstable - not stable (where packages are well tested with bugs already worked), not even testing (where they haven't been tested enough to make sure bugs are fixed to move to stable status yet), but unstable packages (IOW, consider them to be in an Alpha status).

Then, if you use one of the distros using it's base (for example, Mint, as it sounds like you settled on), the potential problems increase even more, since you've got a buggy base to start out with, then try to use third party modifications and menu systems on top of it.

Now, in most cases, that still works OK, provided you perform all of the updates as soon as possible (since they have a large enough user base that most bugs are reported and fixed in a timely manner).   But, if you use a "bleeding edge" distro like that, you can expect to see some bugs   There are pros and cons to any of them.

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dradam
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Re: You're making my point
In reply to Jim Cockfield, 11 months ago

Jim Cockfield wrote:

raminolta wrote:

I guess we differ in our opinion on Windows 8 being unintuitive. To me, it just has some differences from the previous windows that requires some learning: some people are unhappy with the learning curve and some just don't like the difference. I wouldn't call it less intuitive than previous Windows.

C'mon now.  You can't possibly believe that.

Most Windows users would have trouble even figuring out how to log in for the first time, without using google or similar and/or readkg through reviews, watching video tutorials, etc.

Heck, needing to swipe up and down is so different than other Operating Systems, it's nuts, and needing to do something like that with a desktop UI is even crazier.   The UI developers at Microsoft must have been out of their mind to design a login screen like that for a desktop to begin with.

Well, if that was the only way to log in you might have a point.  But you can literally hit ANY key (even the "Any" key if you can find it) or simply click the mouse without any swiping motion whatsoever to accomplish the same thing.

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skyglider
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Re: You're making my point
In reply to Jim Cockfield, 11 months ago

Jim Cockfield wrote:

raminolta wrote:

I guess we differ in our opinion on Windows 8 being unintuitive. To me, it just has some differences from the previous windows that requires some learning: some people are unhappy with the learning curve and some just don't like the difference. I wouldn't call it less intuitive than previous Windows.

C'mon now.  You can't possibly believe that.

Most Windows users would have trouble even figuring out how to log in for the first time, without using google or similar and/or readkg through reviews, watching video tutorials, etc.

Heck, needing to swipe up and down is so different than other Operating Systems, it's nuts, and needing to do something like that with a desktop UI is even crazier.   The UI developers at Microsoft must have been out of their mind to design a login screen like that for a desktop to begin with.

Even for touch screen devices (as any way you look at it, it's a crazy design for non-touch displays), I can't figure out why in the world MS would have designed it that with vertical swipes, unless it's because of patent issues (where swiping left to right or vice-versa may end up in lawsuits).

That's a good example of why our patent system is very broken; and Microsoft is a large part of that problem, too (heck, from what I understand, they're making a lot of money off of Android devices being sold now, too -- thanks to "strong arm" tactics with threats of lawsuits from their legal staff , where smaller companies are just going to submit to blackmail tactics to avoid the legal fights and pay license fees to Microsoft, since they don't have the resources to fight it)

That's a darn shame that software is in that kind of shape, with fear of  legal issues preventing better products from being introduced.

But, even when users figure out how to login to Win 8, it's far from intuitive to use (and that's being nice about it).

Once you start a new style app, even little things like closing it is not very obvious (an understatement), not to mention the way the new style apps using screen real estate. That's why some reviewers refer to Win 8 as Microsoft Window (singular) versus Microsoft Windows.

When users actually get to the more traditional desktop to run the apps they want to use, even finding a menu system is another hurdle they need to overcome, trying to figure out how to get their mouse in the corners for that purpose, or to the right side to bring up the "charms bar".

Sure, that's intuitive [scarcasm].  IOW, after a lot of trial and error time and/or reading about it in reviews, they may finally figure it out (with a high frustration level and/or  an increasing hatred for the UI design).

Then, when they finally figure out how to get to something resembling an icon for a menu, they're just dumped back into the new style, tile based start screen again.

Sheesh.  I could go on and on about lack of a decent menu heirachy (where you may end up with pages of tiles for larger apps because every little utility or language pack installer is shown, whereas the Win 7 start menu had a subfolder structure so that you could see the main app, and all of the extra programs were in different subfolders in the menu structure.  Yet, Win 8 eliminated that kind of menu structure in the new tile based system.

Heck, an average user is going to have a hard time even figuring out how to shut down Windows 8.

"I wouldn't call it less intuitive than previous Windows."

You've got to be joking.  I've been using computers for a very long time; and Windows 8 has got to have least intuitive user interface I've ever seen.

Talking about bad first impressions... Win 8 is a "poster child" for how not to develop an operating system's user interface.

As per comparison between Linux and Windws 8, I perceive there is a significant difference: first bad impression of Windows on some is because it became somewhat visually different. However, nothing is really broken (at least at the level that is observable to most users), while in Linux distros, one  has to deal with things that are broken and don't work.

That depends on the distro.  As already mentioned in my previous post, if you're using an Ubuntu based distro, it's based on a snapshot of Debian Unstable - not stable (where packages are well tested with bugs already worked), not even testing (where they haven't been tested enough to make sure bugs are fixed to move to stable status yet), but unstable packages (IOW, consider them to be in an Alpha status).

Then, if you use one of the distros using it's base (for example, Mint, as it sounds like you settled on), the potential problems increase even more, since you've got a buggy base to start out with, then try to use third party modifications and menu systems on top of it.

Now, in most cases, that still works OK, provided you perform all of the updates as soon as possible (since they have a large enough user base that most bugs are reported and fixed in a timely manner).   But, if you use a "bleeding edge" distro like that, you can expect to see some bugs   There are pros and cons to any of them.

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JimC
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Jim,

Everything you wrote regarding using Win8's UI for the first time is EXACTLY what I experienced.  I too have used Windows since it's inception (was using DOS before that) and I had to use Google on my desktop PC several times to figure out what to do in the Win8 UI on my laptop.  Without Googling I would have been totally lost!  So much for the intuitiveness of the Win8 UI.

Sky

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CAcreeks
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OT: Linux KDE Plasma desktop
In reply to Jim Cockfield, 11 months ago

Jim, is Kubuntu the release to install if I want to check out KDE Plasma desktop? Last time I installed Kubuntu, it did not have an easy way to set the HTTP/S proxy, so I could not update packages. But I can probably set the proxy this by editing the /etc/apt file or somesuch.

Jim Cockfield wrote

For example, you can find lots of linux distros that all use Ubuntu as their base.  But, some use the KDE Plasma Desktop (my personal favorite), others use the Xfce Desktop, others use the LXDE Desktop, others use the Ghome 3 Desktop, while the default Ubuntu Desktop is now Unity.

A bad first impression is what I see mentioned a lot about Windows 8.

Also a bad second impression, and third impression, etc.

Vista was a very "hot seller" if you look it's market share this far after it's product launch when compared to Win 8.  IOW, compared to some of the previous Windows releases, Win 8 is a huge "flop".

Numbers vary. I have seen figures as high as 7% market share, which if true, is better than Vista.

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RedFox88
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Re: Windows 8 shocker
In reply to skyglider, 11 months ago

skyglider wrote:

RedFox88 wrote:

skyglider wrote:

Two things made Win8 sales look better after its release:

  1. Win8's release date was October 26, 2013, just in time for the 2013 Christmas sales.  People who bought new PCs for Christmas got Win8.

While true, it does not affect how sales "look".  Both Vista and Win7 were launched in the fall after Microsoft got its act together and realized they needed to launch in the fall instead of in the first quarter of the year to capture more sales.  Maybe even XP came out in the fall. It's been a while since their OS's have not been launched in the fall.

My point was just that Win8's sales could have been a lot more dismal had it not been  for Christmas sales and 3rd party Start Menu fixes.  Nothing else implied

Sorry but that is no point at all.  Everything in the world could be worse, so what's your point? Geez.  It could have been worse if they only launched it in french, right? Haha..  and the "...could be worse" can go on and on and on...

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Sean Nelson
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Re: You're making my point
In reply to skyglider, 11 months ago

skyglider wrote:

Without Googling I would have been totally lost!  So much for the intuitiveness of the Win8 UI.

This is the fundamental problem.   People expect the UI on a phone or tablet to be different because, guess what - there's no mouse or keyboard!   So they're a lot more willing to put up with the need to learn about how to use the interface.

But GUI desktops have been a staple of life for well over a couple of decades now.   If you sit an Apple user down in front of a Windows or Linux desktop GUI, they can usually figure their way around because they all have common graphic elements such as windows, menus, buttons, etc.  But the default Windows 8 UI removes almost everything they're familiar with and leaves them high and dry.

That's the major criticism of Windows 8.   It's not that the touch UI is a bad one, or that the desktop UI is a bad one.  It's that they're forcing the wrong UI on desktop users.   That's the single biggest problem that's causing them all this bad press.

If Microsoft has any sense, in their upcoming they won't just add an option to make the desktop a default for non-touch systems, they'll make it the default right out of the box.   That's what it will take to set things right.  Let's see just how smart they are.

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lemon_juice
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Re: problems just like Vista ?
In reply to Sean Nelson, 11 months ago

Sean Nelson wrote:

I don't think that's the big cause of Windows 8's problems right now.  I think the big cause is that people who try it on desktop machines can't figure it out because they're not used to the new interface style and because there's no obvious way for them to get to the traditional interface.   Sure, it's possible to set up a desktop system to avoid that problem - but that doesn't happen in retail stores.

You are absolutey right but there's also more to it - the implementation of the new UI is very far from being intuitive on PC's, so even if we assume the new UI has to be learned and that people want to learn it, its implementation doesn't encourage it. Some most glaring examples:

  • hiding essential OS features behind invisible "hot corners" and giving no cues whatsoever to the user where to find them and how to use them
  • hiding commonly used tasks like turning off the computer deep in a place that has nothing to do with power management (turning off a computer is not a "Setting" however you look at it). I've seen people not being able to figure out within 10-15 minutes how to shut down the system - wtf?
  • splitting control power settings between the traditional and new interfaces leaving the user to search for stuff in two different places
  • limiting UI configuration like forcing booting into the tile screen
  • not providing useful apps for the new UI and severely crippling those that are available (as compared to their desktop counterparts)

In my opinion a good UI is an intuitive UI. This means that someone who has used previous versions of the system - when they sit down in front of the new one they can easily figure out how to use it in a fairly short time without having to look up tutorials or calling for help. Even if the new UI is a good idea, MS implemented it as if they wanted it to be as counter-intuitive as possible.

I got used to the new UI after a few months and yes, I could use it without problems. But it never stopped feeling awkward, crooked, disjoint and out of place.

Then they see Windows 8 ads with those blocky colourful tiles, recall their frustrating experience, and grumble to their friends about how stupid it is.  That's entirely Microsoft's fault for not making the classic interface the default on systems without a touch screen.

You may be making a good point here. The bad experience with Win 8 on desktops may spill over to the other side where tablets and phones are used - just by word of mouth. If bad news starts spreading then it may not matter much that on tablets Win 8 will work great - people will already have been prejudiced against it. I'm not a marketing expert but to me MS have made all the worst possible mistakes in this department.

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Michal.

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Jim Cockfield
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Win 8, Vista adoption rate
In reply to CAcreeks, 11 months ago

CAcreeks wrote:

Jim, is Kubuntu the release to install if I want to check out KDE Plasma desktop? Last time I installed Kubuntu, it did not have an easy way to set the HTTP/S proxy, so I could not update packages. But I can probably set the proxy this by editing the /etc/apt file or somesuch.

If you use apt from a terminal for updating and installting software, you can add a line to /etc/apt/apt.conf pointing to the proxy you want to use.

But, it doesn't look like Muon (the GUI based package manager that Kubuntu installs by default) has any settings for using a proxy from what I can see from a quick glance at it.

Synaptic does though (there's a network tab in it's preferences for setting up that kind of thing).  So, you could install Synaptic and use it instead of Muon for software installation and updates.

Jim Cockfield wrote

For example, you can find lots of linux distros that all use Ubuntu as their base.  But, some use the KDE Plasma Desktop (my personal favorite), others use the Xfce Desktop, others use the LXDE Desktop, others use the Ghome 3 Desktop, while the default Ubuntu Desktop is now Unity.

A bad first impression is what I see mentioned a lot about Windows 8.

Also a bad second impression, and third impression, etc.

Vista was a very "hot seller" if you look it's market share this far after it's product launch when compared to Win 8.  IOW, compared to some of the previous Windows releases, Win 8 is a huge "flop".

Numbers vary. I have seen figures as high as 7% market share, which if true, is better than Vista.

Look at the adoption rate, based on users actually using a given OS.  Win 8 adoption has been lagging behind Vista by a large margin when you look at the percentage of users versus the time from product launch.

Here's one article from March about it using stats gathered in February:

http://www.zdnet.com/five-reasons-why-windows-8-has-failed-7000012104/

Even months after those stats were gathered, Win 8 is still under 4%.   See the current stats here, where Win 8 is now at 3.82%

http://www.netmarketshare.com/operating-system-market-share.aspx?qprid=10&qpcustomd=0

Methodology (stats gathered from tens of thousands of websites based on the Operating System being reported by the browser user agent).

http://www.netmarketshare.com/faq.aspx#Methodology

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Jim Cockfield
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Re: OT: Linux KDE Plasma desktop
In reply to CAcreeks, 11 months ago

CAcreeks wrote:

Jim, is Kubuntu the release to install if I want to check out KDE Plasma desktop?

I missed that part.

Try 'em.

If you want something with newer software, I'd test drive Kubuntu 13.04, OpenSUSE 12.3, and Korora 18 (usng a Fedora base) for starters.    Once Mageia 3.0 is released (RC3 is already out and next weekend is the target for Mageia 3.0 final), I'd test drive it, too.

I've got OpenSUSE 12.3 and Kubuntu 13.04 installed in separate partitions on my PC now.  But, I haven't spent much time in them.

I use Mepis 11 for day to day work using a Debian 6.0/Squeeze base.  But, I wouldn't suggest it to most users, since it's a bit dated now, and requires a bit of work to update sources and more (since a lot of the repos have changed since it was first released), with a better understanding of how the community repositories work for installing newer versions of applications than the Debian repos have available to avoid breakage.

Debian 7.0/Wheezy was released last weekend, and it's the new Debian Stable release.   Warren (the developer of Mepis) will have a newer Mepis release out eventually based on it (in very early alpha stage now).  But, that may take a while.

You could also install Debian 7.0 yourself and install KDE.  But, it's using KDE 4.8.4 versus 4.10 like you see in some of the more "bleeding edge" distros (Kubuntu, OpenSUSE, etc.).   Pure Debian Stable tends to be "rock solid", which is one reason I stick with a distro using a Debian Stable base (versus something like one of the Ubuntu derivatives that are based on a snapshot of Debian Unstable) for day to day use.

But, the trade off with Debian Stable is that the packages available for it are not as new as you'll find in some of the other distros around.

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Jim Cockfield
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Beta 1 published yesterday
In reply to Jim Cockfield, 11 months ago

Jim Cockfield wrote:

CAcreeks wrote:

Debian 7.0/Wheezy was released last weekend, and it's the new Debian Stable release.   Warren (the developer of Mepis) will have a newer Mepis release out eventually based on it (in very early alpha stage now).  But, that may take a while.

Warren released the very first Mepis Beta yesterday  using a Debian 7.0/Wheezy base.

But, it's a *very* early beta, as Warren will typically go through 3 to 5 Beta releases, then several Release Candidates to work out bugs and add needed features before releasing a "Gold" (stable) new Mepis release.

He's indicated that it's still "rough around the edges" in his comments about it.  So, unless you have a lot of experience working through bugs and potential breakages with Linux, I would not suggest installing and using the very first Mepis Beta published for an upcoming Mepis release for day to day use.

But, if you want to take a look at it anyway, the first Mepis beta based on Debian 7.0/Wheezy (the new Debian Stable base released last weekend) is SimplyMEPIS-1.5G_11.9.86.

32 bit .iso

http://www.mirrorservice.org/sites/ftp.mepis.org/released/SimplyMEPIS-1.5G_11.9.86_32.iso

64 bit .iso

http://www.mirrorservice.org/sites/ftp.mepis.org/released/SimplyMEPIS-1.5G_11.9.86_64.iso

Again, this is the very first beta of a Mepis release using a Debian 7.0/Wheezy base (and Debian 7.0 was just released last weekend); and Warren (the founder and developer of Mepis) has already said that this beta is still "rough around the edges".

I'd expect to see multiple betas, followed by multiple release candidates before a new Mepis release using Debian 7.0 goes to "stable" (a.k.a., "Gold") status.  So, do not expect it to be feature complete or bug free trying to use the very first Mepis beta using the new Debian 7.0 base (as Warren makes a lot of changes to the Debian base, including a custom installer, dedicated software repositories for software not included in the Debian repos, additional drivers and firmware, custom theme, and much more.

So, it takes a while to work out the bugs associated with the extra features Warren provides in Mepis versus what you get with a vanilla Debian base, and again, he typically goes through multiple betas and release candidates before a brand new version of Mepis goes to stable status.

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Barry Fitzgerald
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Re: problems just like Vista ?
In reply to lemon_juice, 11 months ago

lemon_juice wrote:

Sean Nelson wrote:

I don't think that's the big cause of Windows 8's problems right now.  I think the big cause is that people who try it on desktop machines can't figure it out because they're not used to the new interface style and because there's no obvious way for them to get to the traditional interface.   Sure, it's possible to set up a desktop system to avoid that problem - but that doesn't happen in retail stores.

You are absolutey right but there's also more to it - the implementation of the new UI is very far from being intuitive on PC's, so even if we assume the new UI has to be learned and that people want to learn it, its implementation doesn't encourage it. Some most glaring examples:

  • hiding essential OS features behind invisible "hot corners" and giving no cues whatsoever to the user where to find them and how to use them
  • hiding commonly used tasks like turning off the computer deep in a place that has nothing to do with power management (turning off a computer is not a "Setting" however you look at it). I've seen people not being able to figure out within 10-15 minutes how to shut down the system - wtf?
  • splitting control power settings between the traditional and new interfaces leaving the user to search for stuff in two different places
  • limiting UI configuration like forcing booting into the tile screen
  • not providing useful apps for the new UI and severely crippling those that are available (as compared to their desktop counterparts)

In my opinion a good UI is an intuitive UI. This means that someone who has used previous versions of the system - when they sit down in front of the new one they can easily figure out how to use it in a fairly short time without having to look up tutorials or calling for help. Even if the new UI is a good idea, MS implemented it as if they wanted it to be as counter-intuitive as possible.

I got used to the new UI after a few months and yes, I could use it without problems. But it never stopped feeling awkward, crooked, disjoint and out of place.

Then they see Windows 8 ads with those blocky colourful tiles, recall their frustrating experience, and grumble to their friends about how stupid it is.  That's entirely Microsoft's fault for not making the classic interface the default on systems without a touch screen.

You may be making a good point here. The bad experience with Win 8 on desktops may spill over to the other side where tablets and phones are used - just by word of mouth. If bad news starts spreading then it may not matter much that on tablets Win 8 will work great - people will already have been prejudiced against it. I'm not a marketing expert but to me MS have made all the worst possible mistakes in this department.

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Michal.

Agree 100% many of the choice MS made were ill informed to say the least. There was nothing stopping them allowing users a more Win 7 experience for desktops and laptops, but instead ignore the calls many said well before Win 8 went retail. We saw this coming a long way off, question is why MS didn't?

Traditionally Windows users dislike big changes, with that in mind I'm still staggered that they let this out the door with these problems.

If folks want a start menu they should have a choice, not have to resort to hacks, if they don't want metro again let it be a choice. Choices are good..take it or leave it isn't

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malch
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Re: You're making my point
In reply to Jim Cockfield, 11 months ago

Jim Cockfield wrote:

C'mon now.  You can't possibly believe that.

Most Windows users would have trouble even figuring out how to log in for the first time, without using google or similar and/or readkg through reviews, watching video tutorials, etc.

I was able to figure that one out without too much grief.

But hey, requiring me to login with an email address? Did nobody else here have a problem with that?

I found it completely offensive. I created some garbage Live address which I've forgotten already so this has effectively become a huge barrier to my using Win 8 even though it's currently installed on a spare machine.

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digital ed
Senior MemberPosts: 2,488Gear list
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Re: You're making my point
In reply to malch, 11 months ago

malch wrote:

Jim Cockfield wrote:

C'mon now.  You can't possibly believe that.

Most Windows users would have trouble even figuring out how to log in for the first time, without using google or similar and/or readkg through reviews, watching video tutorials, etc.

I was able to figure that one out without too much grief.

But hey, requiring me to login with an email address? Did nobody else here have a problem with that?

I found it completely offensive. I created some garbage Live address which I've forgotten already so this has effectively become a huge barrier to my using Win 8 even though it's currently installed on a spare machine.

You have a choice and can set up to log in with a normal name. Don't know what the problem is.

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A Owens
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Re: problems just like Vista ?
In reply to dradam, 11 months ago

dradam wrote:

I truly think that Windows 8 is a very good operating system that offers not only intriguing possibilities in the future, but also immediate advantages to the non-tech savvy consumer, but it may never get the chance it deserves.

I agree with that basic sentiment. Yes, its UI choices does not work on a desktop but its memory handling (512gb), startup speed and stability are second to none. It feels like a very good product 'under the hood' and at 25 bucks upgrade cost was a total bargain.

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Archer66
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Re: You're making my point
In reply to digital ed, 11 months ago

digital ed wrote:

malch wrote:

I was able to figure that one out without too much grief.

But hey, requiring me to login with an email address? Did nobody else here have a problem with that?

I found it completely offensive. I created some garbage Live address which I've forgotten already so this has effectively become a huge barrier to my using Win 8 even though it's currently installed on a spare machine.

You have a choice and can set up to log in with a normal name. Don't know what the problem is.

Problem was between keyboard and chair.

As it often is but it's much easier to blame Microsoft.

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CAcreeks
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Re: Mepis Beta 1 published yesterday
In reply to Jim Cockfield, 11 months ago

Thanks Jim, I will check it out when I have some spare time (might not be until a later Beta).

I have several SUSE 11 or 12 systems, can't remember which, but have not examined the UI closely to see if it is KDE Plasma.

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