Not new to editing for print, but need clarification for downsizing for DPR threads.

Started May 6, 2013 | Questions
dwa1
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Not new to editing for print, but need clarification for downsizing for DPR threads.
May 6, 2013

As the thread title implies, I am not new to photo editing. Much of what I have learned over the years has come from this forum. However, 99% of my output has been to print - namely a Canon Pixma Pro9500. So, until now I haven’t had the need to do any "formal" / "best way" downsizing for use on DPR threads. As of this time, I would like to start posting some of my images as a way of sharing and giving back to the forum community.

My current workflow / tools… NEF to NX2 to TIFF (aRGB) to CS5 to PSD file - then create / save separate TIFFs (aRGB) cropped for 5x7, 8x10 and 11x14 - then "output sharpen" each file according to print size.

I am looking for guidance to learn the "best way" to downsize images for displaying on the DPR forums. The only website / gallery that I have is the free DPR gallery (I set one up because I knew that I needed a website in order to include images in the DPR forum posts).

I say "best way" to downsize because I often experience problems when viewing images from other posters - I click the image and it shows the display window, but all I get is the "circular hourglass". I realize that some of that behavior could be from DPR site errors or lack of browser compatibility. It’s not all of the images - just sometimes - but way too often. Another problem I see is a lack of EXIF info - then the poster says something like "for some reason it dropped the EXIF info". So I am trying to downsize in a way that "attempts" to prevent these problems.

I’ve done some research about how to downsize and what tools, etc. It seems like FastStone Image Viewer (which I use for Viewing, rating, etc.) is a good tool for downsizing images as it offers many downsizing "methods" - bicubic, etc.

So here are my questions…

A - Sharpening - Should I be saving a separate file (one with no sharpening) and then do the sharpening only once after the downsize? Or should I start with one of my already sharpened for print files and then, after downsizing, do a "sharpen for web" edit?

B - EXIF - How do I ensure that I keep the EXIF data intact all of the way through to the final web-sized JPG?

C - Color - For posting images on DPR forums, should the "downsized" file be sRGB or can it remain as aRGB?

D - Size - Say for a 5x7 crop, what are the pixel dimensions whereby the image will not be further "downsized" or affected by DPR "filters"?

This last question is not really a "downsize" question, but rather one about sharpening…

E - Lens Talk forums - 100% crops - For demonstrating lens IQ / sharpness qualities… I know how to do the 100% crop task. I would crop at 100% view to a size that gets recommended in my question "D" above - therefore the "downsize" is already done. However, where in the process (in my question "A" above) does the sharpening for this purpose come into play?

E1 - Is it best to crop an unsharpened (but otherwise edited) image and then do a "sharpen for web"?

E2 - Is it best to crop an already "sharpened for print image" and do no further sharpening?

E3 - Other?

Many thanks in advance for taking the time to read this post and for any answers to the above questions. I hope that responses to this thread will be helpful to others as well.

Wayne

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Maxxuman
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Re: Not new to editing for print, but need clarification for downsizing for DPR threads.
In reply to dwa1, May 7, 2013

dwa1 wrote:

I’ve done some research about how to downsize and what tools, etc. It seems like FastStone Image Viewer (which I use for Viewing, rating, etc.) is a good tool for downsizing images as it offers many downsizing "methods" - bicubic, etc.

I haven't used FastStone although I've read good things about it but certainly you can do what you need to in Photoshop.

So here are my questions…

A - Sharpening - Should I be saving a separate file (one with no sharpening) and then do the sharpening only once after the downsize?

That would be the ideal.  Sharpening should always be done with the particular output in mind.  Downsize using Image Size, Bicubic Sharper.

Or should I start with one of my already sharpened for print files and then, after downsizing, do a "sharpen for web" edit?

The advice that I've seen (and follow) for printing is that it's best to sharpen a little more for print output than you would for display on a monitor.  So the versions you've sharpened for print may not be best.

B - EXIF - How do I ensure that I keep the EXIF data intact all of the way through to the final web-sized JPG?

The thing that normally strips EXIF is the Photoshop "Save for web" dialogue. I think that may have been corrected in more recent versions but I don't use it anyway.  If you save your jpeg normally you should be able to retain the EXIF, but do a test and see.

C - Color - For posting images on DPR forums, should the "downsized" file be sRGB or can it remain as aRGB?

sRGB for anything on the web.  While there are some browsers and some people's monitors which can display aRGB accurately, the vast majority of devices (including smartphones, tablets, laptops, etc) that people are likely to view your photos on will only be able to display sRGB with any degree of accuracy.

D - Size - Say for a 5x7 crop, what are the pixel dimensions whereby the image will not be further "downsized" or affected by DPR "filters"?

As far as I'm aware you can use a 5x7 as long as the resolution is 72 ppi, rather than the 300 or so you'd use for printing.  I'd generally just resize to actual pixel dimensions, with a height of 1200 pixels or thereabouts.  The gallery shots are then downsized for display within a thread.

This last question is not really a "downsize" question, but rather one about sharpening…

E - Lens Talk forums - 100% crops - For demonstrating lens IQ / sharpness qualities… I know how to do the 100% crop task. I would crop at 100% view to a size that gets recommended in my question "D" above - therefore the "downsize" is already done. However, where in the process (in my question "A" above) does the sharpening for this purpose come into play?

For lens samples you shouldn't sharpen at all.  Just select View, Actual Pixels in Photoshop.  Using the crop tool with the width, height and resolution fields all blank just select the part of the crop that you wish to display and save it.  Then convert to sRGB and post it as is.

E1 - Is it best to crop an unsharpened (but otherwise edited) image and then do a "sharpen for web"?

For normal images the important thing is to sharpen once the image is at the size you wish it to be displayed at.  But as mentioned above, for 100% crops for lens samples don't sharpen.

E2 - Is it best to crop an already "sharpened for print image" and do no further sharpening?

See A above.

E3 - Other?

Many thanks in advance for taking the time to read this post and for any answers to the above questions. I hope that responses to this thread will be helpful to others as well.

Wayne

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Barry

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Sailor Blue
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Re: Not new to editing for print, but need clarification for downsizing for DPR threads.
In reply to dwa1, May 7, 2013

Whew, too many options for me to answer each one today so here are more general answers.

FastStone is a very nice program that I use almost daily but if I remember correctly, when saving it removes all EXIF data.  It also doesn't work with TIFF or PSD files.

Use Firefox as your browser, it is the best at color management for displayed images found on the web.

Your workflow is pretty complicated.  Why use both TIFF and PSD?  Pick one and use it all the way through Photoshop.

My workflow is to use either Lightroom or ACR to do as much post processing as possible then TIFF for Photoshop CS6 for layers/masking.  I work as non-destructively as possible in CS6 and always save the TIFF image will all layers intact.  This is an excellent video on non-destructive CS6 editing.

B&H - Tim Grey - Photoshop CS6 for the Photographer - YouTube

Working in aRGB is a good choice since you have a professional printer but it can cause problems when saving JPGs.

If you want to put images on dpreview then first reduce the image size and sharpen appropriately.  Save the images as JPGs AFTER you use the Edit/Convert to Profile/sRGB command before using the File/Save As command.  If you don't use the Edit/Convert to Profile/sRGB command the saved JPG will have aRGB as the embedded color profile and the colors will not display correctly.

As an alternative you can simply use the CS6 File/Save for Web command, which will reduce the size of the image to what you select, automatically convert the image to sRGB, sharpen the normal amount for the web, and embed sRGB color space info in the JPG file.

With earlier versions of Photoshop you should reduce the image size appropriately first then use the File/Save for Web and Devices command since this command chokes when asked to reduce the image size.

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dwa1
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Thanks Barry.
In reply to Maxxuman, May 7, 2013

Much thanks for the detailed reply Barry.

Maxxuman wrote:

dwa1 wrote:

D - Size - Say for a 5x7 crop, what are the pixel dimensions whereby the image will not be further "downsized" or affected by DPR "filters"?

As far as I'm aware you can use a 5x7 as long as the resolution is 72 ppi, rather than the 300 or so you'd use for printing.  I'd generally just resize to actual pixel dimensions, with a height of 1200 pixels or thereabouts.  The gallery shots are then downsized for display within a thread.

I guess I should have phrased question "D" as: "5x7 aspect ratio" instead of "5x7 crop". I wanted to avoid having DPR do any resizing of the image when it is displayed in forum posts. So, I was trying to get the "max" pixel dimensions for a 5x7 aspect ratio crop which would not be resized by DPR.

Wayne

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dwa1
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Thanks Sailor Blue.
In reply to Sailor Blue, May 7, 2013

Sailor Blue wrote:

Whew, too many options for me to answer each one today so here are more general answers.

FastStone is a very nice program that I use almost daily but if I remember correctly, when saving it removes all EXIF data.  It also doesn't work with TIFF or PSD files.

Use Firefox as your browser, it is the best at color management for displayed images found on the web.

Your workflow is pretty complicated.  Why use both TIFF and PSD?  Pick one and use it all the way through Photoshop.

My workflow is to use either Lightroom or ACR to do as much post processing as possible then TIFF for Photoshop CS6 for layers/masking.  I work as non-destructively as possible in CS6 and always save the TIFF image will all layers intact.  This is an excellent video on non-destructive CS6 editing.

B&H - Tim Grey - Photoshop CS6 for the Photographer - YouTube

Working in aRGB is a good choice since you have a professional printer but it can cause problems when saving JPGs.

If you want to put images on dpreview then first reduce the image size and sharpen appropriately.  Save the images as JPGs AFTER you use the Edit/Convert to Profile/sRGB command before using the File/Save As command.  If you don't use the Edit/Convert to Profile/sRGB command the saved JPG will have aRGB as the embedded color profile and the colors will not display correctly.

As an alternative you can simply use the CS6 File/Save for Web command, which will reduce the size of the image to what you select, automatically convert the image to sRGB, sharpen the normal amount for the web, and embed sRGB color space info in the JPG file.

With earlier versions of Photoshop you should reduce the image size appropriately first then use the File/Save for Web and Devices command since this command chokes when asked to reduce the image size.

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Living and loving it in Bangkok, Thailand. Canon 7D - See the gear list for the rest.

Thanks for the detailed info Sailor Blue. With regard to my workflow... After conversion from NEF with NX2 (I like the tools in that app for Nikon raw - NX2 is non-destructive too), then I Save As TIFF. I do my edits in CS5 and using only one layered PSD file. Then I flatten and Save As TIFF for the various print sizes. So, there is no PSD file for each crop - only a flattened TIFF for each crop.

FastStone - I'll have to check for the EXIF data. It has a specific "Resizer" option that I wanted to use. Perhaps a "Save for Web" option is what removes the EXIF. It would surprise me if the "Resizer" function removes the EXIF.

Wayne

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