Adobe Goes All-In on Subscription Pricing Model.

Started May 6, 2013 | Discussions
Glen Barrington
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Re: Adobe Goes All-In on Subscription Pricing Model.
In reply to Robert J. Atwell, May 7, 2013

Might I suggest looking at Corel Paint Shop Pro and ACDSee Photo Editor 6?  I'm pretty impressed with the ACDSee product, but PSP is a workhorse with a good reputation.

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DavidMaven
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Lock-in
In reply to Lee Jay, May 7, 2013

ljfinger wrote:

LR's prices went down dramatically with LR4 ($300 -> $150, $99->$79).

Which encourages more people to buy and consequently lock more users into LR workflow, edits, catalogs, etc.

So users will have, uhhhh, strong incentive to pay for the subscription model to LR when it happens.

Vendors like Adobe *never* do anything significant that is not to their advantage. They are not a charity. They exist to take your money. Period. And they have incentive and means to take ever more of it.

Unless we switch to other tools, proprietary or open source.

Adobe has the legal right to license their IP any way they want; we have a choice to accept their terms or not. Complain, too, but that's not a guarantee of acceptable solution.

Plan according to your own priorities and budgets.

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TimR32225
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Re: Lee Jay...
In reply to Lee Jay, May 7, 2013

ljfinger wrote:

TimR32225 wrote:

ljfinger wrote:

That's wrong. ACR 8 will be supported in CS6.
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Lee Jay
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I hope this is correct.   What I read suggested they would continue to support CS6, but not include any new features or upgrades.  If you are right, this gives folks some time to decide.

You hope?  I'm not making this stuff up!

http://blogs.adobe.com/lightroomjournal/2013/05/adobe-camera-raw-8-support-for-photoshop-cc-and-photoshop-cs6.html

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Lee Jay
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Lee Jay,

Thanks for the link.  For now, it's a slight relief that they SAY they will continue to provide new camera updatest to CS6 perpetual license holders.

But I don't think we can expect this to continue forever.  My fingers are crossed; I hope Adobe's fingers weren't crossed when they made that statement.

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TimR32225
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QUESTION for everyone....
In reply to TimR32225, May 7, 2013

I read in another post that once a user subscribes to Photoshop CC, he apparently loses his perpetual license to the CS6 software he purchased.

I've got a problem with that.  Since CC is a separate, pay by month license, that should not negate the perpetual licenses many of us have already paid for with retail versions of CS6.

If we can in fact keep using CS6 with perpetual license as well as subscribing to photoshop CC if we choose, that would significantly soften the blow.

This would make it possible to use CS6 for small everyday tasks into the future, but also subscribe on a month to month basis if/when our work calls for the added features which should be available in Photoshop CC.  If this were the case, one could continue to use the functionality of CS6 until a future time of ones own choosing, when he/she might then find it beneficial to just subscrible to Photoshop CC for good.

If anyone knows the definite answer to this question and can provide a link to it officially on the Adobe website, that would be great.

Thanks,
Tim

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mpeman
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Help l them know how you feel!
In reply to Prstl2, May 7, 2013
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Sonyshine
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Re: Lee Jay...
In reply to TimR32225, May 7, 2013

I expect the makers of Aperture, Gimp, Photo Pro etc are rubbing their hands with glee!

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Toermalijn
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Re: Adobe Goes All-In on Subscription Pricing Model.
In reply to Glen Barrington, May 7, 2013

Glen Barrington wrote:

Might I suggest looking at Corel Paint Shop Pro and ACDSee Photo Editor 6?  I'm pretty impressed with the ACDSee product, but PSP is a workhorse with a good reputation.

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People who have heavely invested in photoshop plug-ins are stuck! Most other programs never fully support all plug-ins.

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Robert J. Atwell
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Re: Adobe Goes All-In on Subscription Pricing Model.
In reply to Glen Barrington, May 7, 2013

Thanks Glen.  I have used both at various times.  I'm thinking that some of Adobe's plugin suppliers like Topaz Labs and Tiffen may well expand their standalone products.  Topaz Labs already gave us layering, masking and adjustments in standalone mode with their FX product.  I expect that Adobe's absence from the standalone market will suit them quite well.  Raw formats are going to be their challenge.  However, DNG converters or something similar may well solve my still image issues.   In any event between the products you mentioned and the others that are already there and those that will come; I'm sure I'll be able to get my work done with or without Adobe.  It just seems silly for them to abandon us loyal paying customers.  But if their business model compels them to go this way then some of their old loyal customers will have to find new products to use.  Business is business.
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cptrios
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Re: Adobe Goes All-In on Subscription Pricing Model.
In reply to Robert J. Atwell, May 7, 2013

Well, part of me doesn't blame Adobe for wanting to go this way. They pretty much created the entire genre, and have been more or less consistently innovative and rigorous with updates and bug fixes. And they've done all of this while "losing" millions upon millions of copies to piracy. Correct me if I'm wrong, but hasn't PS been the most pirated software on the planet for ages?

Still, like the SimCity debacle, this is a big middle finger to paying customers. They're going to end up wringing more money out of many people than they would have with a one-time license purchase. The only benefit I can see to the consumer is that some folks who don't need to use PS all the time will be able to "rent" it for shorter periods without dropping the traditional $600. Everyone else is going to be at least gently screwed.

I'm with a lot of people around here in hoping/expecting that someone will take advantage of this and come in with a low-priced "indie" alternative. What's more likely, though, is that either Google or Apple will snap up one of the smaller PS competitors (Pixelmator, ACDSee, etc) and turn it into their own product After all, Apple has enough cash lying around to buy Adobe itself many times over.

My prediction: Google snaps up an ACDSee-type company, combines it with the Nik team, and releases a "Picasa Pro" for $49.

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Doug Pardee
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Re: Not for Lightroom and not for Elements
In reply to Lee Jay, May 7, 2013

ljfinger wrote:

I'm absolutely 100% positive of what I said.

Not very comforting. I'd feel a lot better if I heard it from Adobe, not from some semi-random member of DPReview. [I say "semi-random" because I know Lee Jay's been around here a long time and has been pretty reliable.]

I'd also like to be able to point other people to Adobe's statement on the matter. Since I can't find such a statement, I'm having trouble doing that.

Let's compare Adobe's statements on CS6 and Lightroom:

  • Photoshop CS6 is still available for purchase as a perpetual software license, via electronic download from Adobe.com and authorized resellers.
  • Lightroom 5 will be available for purchase as a perpetual software license, via electronic download from Adobe.com and authorized resellers.

No difference except in verb tense. CS6 has been available and LR5 isn't yet available, hence the use of "is still" versus "will be."

  • Adobe and authorized resellers are no longer selling boxed software [of CS6]...
  • A boxed version of Lightroom 5 will be available from authorized resellers.

Lightroom can still be bought boxed, CS6 can't. Not relevant to my concerns.

  • The Photoshop team will provide bug fixes and security updates for Photoshop CS6 while it is still available for purchase. New features and all the other Creative Cloud services, however, will not be added to Photoshop CS6.
  • [no statement of future support for Lightroom]

Whoa!

Adobe's repeated refusal to state what their plans are for non-cloud Lightroom after LR5 are deeply troubling. It could be that Adobe does plan to continue development, but if so, why aren't they trumpeting that? Taken literally, the above says that Adobe plans to provide bug fixes and security updates to CS6 but won't commit to doing even that much for Lightroom.

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Simon Garrett
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Re: Adobe Goes All-In on Subscription Pricing Model.
In reply to cptrios, May 7, 2013

cptrios wrote:

My prediction: Google snaps up an ACDSee-type company, combines it with the Nik team, and releases a "Picasa Pro" for $49.

That would be good.  I don't want to knock Adobe: I use LR and Photoshop (CS5), and I'd like to continue to do so (unless something better comes along).

But a powerful competitor breathing down their necks would be very good for them.  And us.

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brebis
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Adobe think we are sheep!
In reply to mpeman, May 7, 2013

I'm not going to follow Adobe here and will turn gradually to other software.  Pay each month $50 just to lose control and use software that is not even mine?  No thank you.

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Toermalijn
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Re: Adobe Goes All-In on Subscription Pricing Model.
In reply to cptrios, May 7, 2013

cptrios wrote:

Well, part of me doesn't blame Adobe for wanting to go this way. They pretty much created the entire genre, and have been more or less consistently innovative and rigorous with updates and bug fixes. And they've done all of this while "losing" millions upon millions of copies to piracy. Correct me if I'm wrong, but hasn't PS been the most pirated software on the planet for ages?

Still, like the SimCity debacle, this is a big middle finger to paying customers. They're going to end up wringing more money out of many people than they would have with a one-time license purchase. The only benefit I can see to the consumer is that some folks who don't need to use PS all the time will be able to "rent" it for shorter periods without dropping the traditional $600. Everyone else is going to be at least gently screwed.

I'm with a lot of people around here in hoping/expecting that someone will take advantage of this and come in with a low-priced "indie" alternative. What's more likely, though, is that either Google or Apple will snap up one of the smaller PS competitors (Pixelmator, ACDSee, etc) and turn it into their own product After all, Apple has enough cash lying around to buy Adobe itself many times over.

My prediction: Google snaps up an ACDSee-type company, combines it with the Nik team, and releases a "Picasa Pro" for $49.

Unfortunately it's not all about photoshop or lightroom. Point me to any serious competitor to Indesign or Illustrator. There is none, no, not even Corel.

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Toermalijn
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Re: Adobe Goes All-In on Subscription Pricing Model.
In reply to Simon Garrett, May 7, 2013

Simon Garrett wrote:

cptrios wrote:

My prediction: Google snaps up an ACDSee-type company, combines it with the Nik team, and releases a "Picasa Pro" for $49.

That would be good.  I don't want to knock Adobe: I use LR and Photoshop (CS5), and I'd like to continue to do so (unless something better comes along).

But a powerful competitor breathing down their necks would be very good for them.  And us.

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Simon

I guess a gigant like google purchasing NIK has made Adobe scared and they went with the cloud to hook people to this system forever.

I would like to see Goolge purchasing Adobe and Make the suite available for 150 bucks a year. This way everybody CAN effort it and that's the way to handle piracy, not making your devoted customers pay 3 times as much.

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Toermalijn
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Re: Adobe think we are sheep!
In reply to brebis, May 7, 2013

brebis wrote:

I'm not going to follow Adobe here and will turn gradually to other software.  Pay each month $50 just to lose control and use software that is not even mine?  No thank you.

The problem is, the giant companies have to much power and once the first are successfull, there will be more. First Microsoft with their Office suite, now Adobe with their Creative Suite, what's next?

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Marty4650
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This is a no lose situation for Adobe
In reply to Prstl2, May 7, 2013

What Adobe will accomplish by raising their prices so high is that they will flush out all the casual users. People who buy CS, but don't really need it. Once they shrink their customer base enough, then they actually NEED higher prices just to stay even. If customers walk, then they just drop their prices and those customers will come right back, since they really do have the better product.

Any way you slice it, this pricing structure really helps Adobe at the expense of their customers.

And they probably will get away with it, since their image editing software is the best one out there.

There are only a finite number of things that can happen next, and they all end up benefiting Adobe:

  • Their customers might whine and complain, but still end up paying the higher prices. Adobe wins.
  • Their customers might whine and complain, and then find an alternative program. At this new pricing level, Adobe can stand to lose 20% of their customers and still stay at the same revenue level. If they lose more than that... then no problem... they just adjust their prices downwards until you stop thinking about switching to Corel. Adobe wins again.

Adobe has achieved a type of monopoly by simply being so good at what they do. There is nothing illegal about this, in fact Microsoft had the same problem, and so does Walmart.

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Glen Barrington
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Re: Adobe Goes All-In on Subscription Pricing Model.
In reply to Robert J. Atwell, May 7, 2013

Robert J. Atwell wrote:

Thanks Glen.  I have used both at various times.  I'm thinking that some of Adobe's plugin suppliers like Topaz Labs and Tiffen may well expand their standalone products.  Topaz Labs already gave us layering, masking and adjustments in standalone mode with their FX product.  I expect that Adobe's absence from the standalone market will suit them quite well.  Raw formats are going to be their challenge.  However, DNG converters or something similar may well solve my still image issues.   In any event between the products you mentioned and the others that are already there and those that will come; I'm sure I'll be able to get my work done with or without Adobe.  It just seems silly for them to abandon us loyal paying customers.  But if their business model compels them to go this way then some of their old loyal customers will have to find new products to use.  Business is business.
--
Sincerely,
Bob

I realize from your previous posts that your concerns go beyond those of merely having access to a good editor.  However I want to pimp a bit for my new favorite editor!   ACDSee Photo Editor 6 will open a dng file that has been converted from an orf file.  I know because I did it this morning.  It also will perform complete 16 bit editing.  The more I use it, the more I like it, it is worth investigating.

As to why Adobe has done this, it is more than JUST money.  They got plenty of money.  It is predictability of income and reduced expenses.  They know full well that they will lose most guys like me. Serious amateurs.

What they want is for professionals to pony up for the monthly subscription fee.  I don't think it's just to tie you guys to them, shoot they already had you. It is to get a predictable annual income, and to reduce maintenance costs.  Let's face it, this class of software is pretty mature, there isn't a lot that can be done to it to make this software more user friendly or make you more productive.  This eliminates the need to create a totally fictional new version every 18 months that some people will buy and some people will wait for the NEXT version.  Everybody pays the same at the same time and all they got to do is keep it running on the PC's.

Maintenance programming and support is EXPENSIVE, anything you can do to drop this is pure profit.  They probably think the savings in maintenance will outweigh the lost market share when calculating the bottom line.  And the predictability of income will help them adjust the amount and quality of support long term.  No more staffing up to get a new version out the door, only to lay people off later.  (no one likes that on either side of the desk!)  When ongoing maintenance can be done by a stable, smaller crew working in less hectic situations everyone feels better, including the accountants.

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Lee Jay
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Re: Not for Lightroom and not for Elements
In reply to Doug Pardee, May 7, 2013

Doug Pardee wrote:

ljfinger wrote:

I'm absolutely 100% positive of what I said.

Not very comforting. I'd feel a lot better if I heard it from Adobe...

I got it from the horse's mouth (it helps to know people).

You need to listen to me on this one.  Trust me.

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Lee Jay
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turbsy
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Re: As a user of Photoshop since #1 (and every version since) . . . 20+ years ago
In reply to Lee Jay, May 7, 2013

ljfinger wrote:

Steve Bingham wrote:

I am gone. ACR can be replaced. Bridge is crude and somewhat slow. Elements 11 can't do it all . . . nor can LR4.

To me, LR + Elements can do everything for photographers.  I have CS6 and I still use Elements 9 more, since it's faster and easier to use.

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Lee Jay
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I have elements 10 and it is only 32bit so it can only use 4gb of ram.  Not really useful with a d800 or while trying to stitch panos

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Toermalijn
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Re: This is a no lose situation for Adobe
In reply to Marty4650, May 7, 2013

Marty4650 wrote:

What Adobe will accomplish by raising their prices so high is that they will flush out all the casual users. People who buy CS, but don't really need it. Once they shrink their customer base enough, then they actually NEED higher prices just to stay even. If customers walk, then they just drop their prices and those customers will come right back, since they really do have the better product.

Any way you slice it, this pricing structure really helps Adobe at the expense of their customers.

And they probably will get away with it, since their image editing software is the best one out there.

There are only a finite number of things that can happen next, and they all end up benefiting Adobe:

  • Their customers might whine and complain, but still end up paying the higher prices. Adobe wins.
  • Their customers might whine and complain, and then find an alternative program. At this new pricing level, Adobe can stand to lose 20% of their customers and still stay at the same revenue level. If they lose more than that... then no problem... they just adjust their prices downwards until you stop thinking about switching to Corel. Adobe wins again.

Adobe has achieved a type of monopoly by simply being so good at what they do. There is nothing illegal about this, in fact Microsoft had the same problem, and so does Walmart.

They are so good because they purchased technology from other companies or they purchased complete competitors and destroyed that software. And now they destroy their loyal customer base as well.

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