Adobe Goes All-In on Subscription Pricing Model.

Started May 6, 2013 | Discussions
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Re: Adobe Subs Model...moving with times but probably not clever
In reply to Prstl2, May 7, 2013

Prstl2 wrote:

Just read these, thought the forum might find them interesting, I know I did.

http://mashable.com/2013/05/06/adobe-subscription-pricing-only/

http://www.dpreview.com/news/2013/05/06/Adobe-kills-perpetual-licenses-as-creative-suite-moves-to-creative-cloud-cc

Regards,

Paul

Adobe probably sees this as a better way of locking in customers and ensuring constant funds flow (as some don't upgrade but just use prior versions until they no longer support the current camera, then upgrade).

But the thing is, how many will really decide to be tied in. Professionals who need Photoshop and a few die hards?

I am surprised, I got PS6 on a special last year, amazing price, thought that was their new strategy, which would have been worth it, lower pricing to much more volume.

But, I am happy with PS6 and have absolutely no need to upgrade. It will support my D300 and any I upgrade to for the next few years, so no problem there. Even then, surely one can input camera profiles oneself if they don't update for new releases? No?

So, it wont matter to me, I certainly wont pay for the subs model.

And if crunch came to it, there are other programs, who will probably adapt to accept plugins like Google Nik's etc, even if not..

Even as an amateur, I am already being aggressively targeted for products by another company, I am sure many of you also are.

And the pricing is good, actually they were hammering me with dioscount offers, which I saw no need for (guy calling me seemed rather frustrated, seemed nice guy, but I really did not see the need to spend money on another rprogram..lol).

I think Adobe is making an error. Provide the cloud, but give alternat options.

This is like Nikon's reported parts lock down for repairs.

Nutty.

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Timj351
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Re: If you choose NOT to subscribe to the cloud version....
In reply to TimR32225, May 7, 2013

TimR32225 wrote:

For folks who purchased CS6, the $19.99 per month pricing to keep using the software, is ridiculous.  We already paid for a PERPETUAL license so we should not be forced to pay again.  It seems to me that although Adobe doesn't have to continue to support CS6, I don't think they can legally force CS6 purchasers to pay again to continue the have the functionality that we have already paid for.

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Is this true about CS6?! If so, that is unbelievable and has to be illegal. When does this start? I paid for the program outright and if I am going to be forced to pay an additional $20 a month to use it I will have to look into legal action. I'm afraid of even going to their site and logging in because it might start charging me something extra. This whole thing is utterly ridiculous and I am definitely not buying anymore Adobe products again. Fortunately I won't be upgrading my cameras for a long time but I will be cursing Adobe every time I use there products. I am tempted to wipe them from my computers except for the fact that I paid so much money and  I still want to get my money's worth out of them. Just unbelievable.

-Tim

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Re: As a user of Photoshop since #1 (and every version since) . . . 20+ years ago
In reply to Steve Bingham, May 7, 2013

Steve Bingham wrote:

I am betting they did this to control pirating. I would also bet this "solution" will be broken soon enough by some whiz kid - or gang of whiz kids.

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Bingo....all my software is legit, but I KNOW there are pirated versions out there.  Just google free software..whatever name and the 'cracked' versions with keygen etc come up.

Problem is, many of the keygen's have viruses and there is the moral issue.

The thing is, with the way legal issues are going, more and more users who are operating businesses or as serious users who MAY have considered pirated versions (if they did) are going to pay for licences, breaches of copyright are becoming hot cakes and people are going to find out , whether it be music, movies or software.

It is better and more people will realize this, to pay a few hundred (or music a few cents per song) for software than wind up paying legal fees for defence.

There are many large corporations behind such royalties and anyone thinking that pirating is going to last, well my OPINION is that a lot of people are going to learn the hard way.

All that said to say, this is unnecessary on Adobe's part.

Just my opinion.

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Mark K W
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Re: Adobe Goes All-In on Subscription Pricing Model.
In reply to Prstl2, May 7, 2013

As amateur only, I derive no income from my photography.

I bought CS5 3 years ago, have just upgraded to CS6 (one time upgrade payment). I have used LR since LR2 and am now using LR4.4

I do not need upgrade CS again now. It does all I need. I do not plan a camera update in the near future.

I cannot accept to embark on paying a monthly variable cost (for potentially many many years) for a piece of software that is non-essential to my well-being. The other services that I do pay monthly on are essential (gas, electricity, water, telecoms (inc internet)). I think Adobe's SaaS model is not appropriate for consumers. The ongoing pricing is outside of my control and competition is limited; that is not a model for any activity for hobbyist consumers. The PP industry is unregulated; many other consumer subscription model markets are regulated and competition is required.

Lock-in subscription model around proprietary technology with weak or no competition is often a regulatory red-flag, so I hope some authoritative bodies see this now for what it could become. In my simple analysis this could affect mass consumers also indirectly if pricing is not regulated. Adobe could at a point in the future hold the entire Advertising, Marketing, Media, and Publication industries effectively to ransom by increasing their contract subscription prices at such a rate as to cause knock-on product price increases; as agency if you don't agree that new subscription price - that's it - you stop work after max. 180-days because of the phone-home lock-in and the fact that your files are to all intents and purposes in proprietary non-portable Adobe format.

LR and Elements are still available as perpetual licence and that is good, but for me Adobe's credibility as a company for consumers has also been destroyed by this CC step.

I will continue to use CS6, but I have to start looking at LR very differently now. My own switching costs in LR are much much higher because of the non-destructive editing (the parametric edits in an Adobe proprietary format I have for >100k images). Adobe knows this (and yes I also know I can bake the adjustments in and move on). Question is whether Adobe would dare make LR a subscription-only model. Under their current management and approach I fear they will. Maybe they will play that fear in LR5 by offering it as a perpetual licence (thanks!) - but can I trust them anymore to what they may do with LR6 and onwards?

Hence, my conclusion now is stand back from them; they are on a divergent path to my way of buying and using non-essential things.

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Re: Adobe Goes All-In no need to upgrade anyway....
In reply to Sailor Blue, May 7, 2013

Sailor Blue wrote:

stick with my stand alone CS6 software as long as possible.  Perhaps in a few years I'll upgrade but CS6 has more power than I can use so I see little reason to upgrade in the near future.

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Living and loving it in Bangkok, Thailand. Canon 7D - See the gear list for the rest.

Exactly, no problem there........I agree fully. PS6 is plenty software for me, no worries (as it is I have a lot to learn on PP).  Happy and thankful I got it for an amazing deal last year. Absolutely no need to upgrade. I guess the negative side for Adobe is that it will lose 'casual upgraders' who just upgrade for the new version, because it is there.

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Simon Garrett
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Adobe needs more competition, not complaints
In reply to Prstl2, May 7, 2013

I really doubt our complaints will make them change their policy (much though I wish it would).  There's not enough competition to Photoshop CSx (or to quite a few other CS products), so expect prices to continue to rise.  Sure, Adobe will say this is what they need to charge to make a sensible return and software development is becoming more expensive and they have really great developers and blah blah blah.

All of which is probably true.  But when there's competition, magically monopolies find ways of cutting costs. They're not being dishonest, but it's amazing how difficult it is to reduce costs when you don't have to.

All corporates without exception become fat and inefficient without the fear of God (or bankruptcy) to keep them lean.  Funny thing is, all monopolies really believe that they ARE facing competition, and they really are lean and fit...

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Stakeouttoo
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Re: As a user of Photoshop since #1 (and every version since) . . . 20+ years ago
In reply to Steve Bingham, May 7, 2013

Steve Bingham wrote:

I am gone. ACR can be replaced. Bridge is crude and somewhat slow. Elements 11 can't do it all . . . nor can LR4. This will leave a huge void for some compamy to fill - and they will!!!!!! Death of an era.

I am betting they did this to control pirating. I would also bet this "solution" will be broken soon enough by some whiz kid - or gang of whiz kids.

all these companies go all-in ..for example  what MS did putting out Windows 8 an horrendous excuse for an OS...that only belongs on a Tablet not a PC... they lost me until they come to their senses..

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Darrell500
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Re: Adobe Goes All-In on Subscription Pricing Model.
In reply to Prstl2, May 7, 2013

Time to move on don't need another monthly bill to use Photoshop, Office etc. etc. If Adobe is unwilling to sell their products I'm sure someone will come along and fill the niche.

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Re: If you choose NOT to subscribe to the cloud version....
In reply to Timj351, May 7, 2013

Timj351 wrote:

TimR32225 wrote:

For folks who purchased CS6, the $19.99 per month pricing to keep using the software, is ridiculous.  We already paid for a PERPETUAL license so we should not be forced to pay again.  It seems to me that although Adobe doesn't have to continue to support CS6, I don't think they can legally force CS6 purchasers to pay again to continue the have the functionality that we have already paid for.

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Is this true about CS6?! If so, that is unbelievable and has to be illegal. When does this start? I paid for the program outright and if I am going to be forced to pay an additional $20 a month to use it I will have to look into legal action. I'm afraid of even going to their site and logging in because it might start charging me something extra. This whole thing is utterly ridiculous and I am definitely not buying anymore Adobe products again. Fortunately I won't be upgrading my cameras for a long time but I will be cursing Adobe every time I use there products. I am tempted to wipe them from my computers except for the fact that I paid so much money and  I still want to get my money's worth out of them. Just unbelievable.

-Tim

Same here.  I loved using Photoshop Lightroom, but now firing it up makes me sick to my stomach.  I am done with Adobe.  Yes I know LR is not part of the Cloud.  I dont care.  I hate Adobe more than words can say.

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MPA1
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Re: Aperture, Capture One, Photo Ninja looking good......
In reply to sanmaj, May 7, 2013

sanmaj wrote:

Well I wonder whether Apple can see the opportunity here! Many people will start looking elsewhere and just keep their "perpetual" products. Aperture is not very far behind Lightroom as it is, and for many Aperture has become the editing software of choice. Sure you can do a heck of a lot of very fancy things with photoshop, but other developer products are getting really, really good e.g. Photo Ninja. Some people will go to Capture One for quality as well. I don't know about you but I've come to the conclusion that I can certainly live without photoshop. Photoshop will become almost exclusively a professional product and the money they are currently making with enthusiast will go away. Watch and see!

I also agree with someone who said Adobe, I think, is running out of really creative update ideas for photoshop. Look at what is being touted right now, "Blur Removal", are you kidding me!! There are so many ways to minimize blur in today's photography world that this, on the part of Adobe, is a joke.

So come on Apple, Capture One and Photo Ninja you've just been handed a boatload of clients! Let's get going.

Aperture is not at all behind Apple. Indeed for Fuji X cameras, now that it finally supports them, I gather it does a better job of it.

Mind you I sold my Fuji X system because I tired of waiting. Aperture does a lovely job with my Nikon files and with my Lumix GH3 files though.

I've had Aperture since it was released and avoided PS like the plague.

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Mark3M
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Re: If you choose NOT to subscribe to the cloud version....
In reply to rattymouse, May 7, 2013

Once you go down the subscription route, there's no going back, as far as the customer is concerned.  You're locked in.  You use whatever they are offering.  If they make major changes that are bad, i.e., microsoft and vista/window8, tough luck.  Live with it.

Now is the time for other software companies to identify and hire some of adobe's top talent so they can slay the giant.

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Glen Barrington
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Re: If you choose NOT to subscribe to the cloud version....
In reply to Mark3M, May 7, 2013

Mark3M wrote:

Once you go down the subscription route, there's no going back, as far as the customer is concerned.  You're locked in.  You use whatever they are offering.  If they make major changes that are bad, i.e., microsoft and vista/window8, tough luck.  Live with it.

Now is the time for other software companies to identify and hire some of adobe's top talent so they can slay the giant.

The other publishers don't need Adobe talent.  Corel, ACDsee and Serif are fully capable of producing quality work right now (and to be fair, they already DO, its just that damned Adobe lock on the market, keeps people from noticing).  What they need is the expectation of a reasonable return on their investment.  I believe this is such an opportunity, I hope they are brave enough to take it.

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Lee Jay
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Re: If you choose NOT to subscribe to the cloud version....
In reply to TimR32225, May 7, 2013

TimR32225 wrote:

ljfinger wrote:

That's wrong. ACR 8 will be supported in CS6.
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I hope this is correct.   What I read suggested they would continue to support CS6, but not include any new features or upgrades.  If you are right, this gives folks some time to decide.

You hope?  I'm not making this stuff up!

http://blogs.adobe.com/lightroomjournal/2013/05/adobe-camera-raw-8-support-for-photoshop-cc-and-photoshop-cs6.html

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Toermalijn
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Re: Not for Lightroom and not for Elements
In reply to Doug Pardee, May 7, 2013

Doug Pardee wrote:

You will also continue to be able to buy the non-cloud CS6. The question isn't about current releases. The question is about future releases. Will there be a Lightroom 6? Adobe has said that there will be no further development of Creative Suite. They haven't yet said one way or the other on Lightroom.

Also, even if they do say they're going to continue to develop non-cloud Lightroom, who will believe them? When CS5.5 came out, Adobe laid out a schedule for future releases of Creative Suite. And here we are, at the point when CS6.5 had been expected to come out, and SURPRISE! No CS update, not now, not ever.

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The open-source LightZone Project: http://lightzoneproject.org/

There is a cs update, it's called Creative cloud now. In august there will be a new versions of the creative cloud, say creative suite 7...

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Re: Not for Lightroom and not for Elements
In reply to Marcin 3M, May 7, 2013

Marcin 3M wrote:

I hope Nikon will continue its CNX.

On the other hand, NIK went to Google...

Bo good news for commercial software users.

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Hope google will buy adobe and make creative suite available for 150 bucks a year,lol.

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Toermalijn
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Re: Not for Lightroom and not for Elements
In reply to Marcin 3M, May 7, 2013

Marcin 3M wrote:

Elements... Are curves finally there, or this function is still to valuable to be in this software?

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Marcin_3M

They are smart enough not to implement the full pro version. There has to be some difference between elements and photoshop otherwise no-one would ever buy photoshop!

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Lee Jay
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Re: If you choose NOT to subscribe to the cloud version....
In reply to Timj351, May 7, 2013

Timj351 wrote:

TimR32225 wrote:

For folks who purchased CS6, the $19.99 per month pricing to keep using the software, is ridiculous.  We already paid for a PERPETUAL license so we should not be forced to pay again.  It seems to me that although Adobe doesn't have to continue to support CS6, I don't think they can legally force CS6 purchasers to pay again to continue the have the functionality that we have already paid for.

Is this true about CS6?!

No, it is not.

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Robert J. Atwell
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Re: Adobe Goes All-In on Subscription Pricing Model.
In reply to Prstl2, May 7, 2013

I have been using Adobe Photoshop for well over a decade and the CS Suite since it came out.  I work in an environment where standalone is a must not a nice to have.  I'll continue to use CS6 but I am now going to be looking for replacement software going forward because I can't use the cloud for a large portion of my work.  It won't be long before my operating systems will be incompatible with Adobe CS6 for some reason associated with security, etc. and when that happens I'll still have to get my work done.  If Adobe has chosen not to support the standalone environment that I live in I understand their decision.  I applaud their leadership in the photo and video editing world.  I love their tools, but if it won't work in my environment then I need to find other tools that will work in my environment and they won't be Adobe.  Other software manufacturers will fill the void left by Adobe. The cloud may be the way of the future but standalone and limited connectivity environments make up a large fraction of the work that I do and that will not change in even the distant future.  So for me I'll now be relegated to using CS6 a while longer and will shift as necessary to some other manufacturer's software as CS6 becomes obsolete.  I will miss Adobe when that happens, but I'd rather be employed than unemployed.   The cloud solution is not viable for me.  I wish it was but it isn't.  Thankfully, there are alternatives.
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Glen Barrington
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Re: Adobe Goes All-In on Subscription Pricing Model.
In reply to Robert J. Atwell, May 7, 2013

Well, to be fair, Adobe's subscription model is a standalone one where the software resides on your hard drive and will continue to function so long as it 'phones home' every 30 days to see if you are paid up on the subscription fee.  So technically, this will meet your requirements.

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Robert J. Atwell
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Re: Adobe Goes All-In on Subscription Pricing Model.
In reply to Glen Barrington, May 7, 2013

My environment won't let me phone home from the installation machine even intermittently.  I could update an activation code intermittently but I'd still need a software update mechanism that would allow installation via CD/DVD, etc.
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