So, rumor has it...

Started 11 months ago | Discussions
Great Bustard
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So, rumor has it...
11 months ago

...that Sigma's working on releasing a 135 / 1.8 OS and a 24 / 1.4, both "art" lenses, by the end of this year or the beginning of next year.  Like I said, just a rumor, but if I were Sigma, that's what I'd do.

That leaves 50mm open for Canon.  I'd be pleased to see a 50 / 2 IS ala the 35 / 2 IS and/or a 50 / 1.2L II.

But what we're missing is a fast 17mm prime.  I think that's gotta come from Sigma, since Canon has the 14 / 2.8L II and 17 TSE.  Then again, maybe Sigma might think to redo their 20 / 1.8, although that's a bit too close to 24mm, I would think.

Let's not forget zooms, though.  I think the 24-200mm range is pretty well covered at the moment.  So, I'm wondering if someone isn't working on a killer UWA zoom.

How say you all?

kevindar
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Re: So, rumor has it...
In reply to Great Bustard, 11 months ago

Sigma has made some nice lenses recently, and as canon prices sky rocketted, sigma lenses have been more appealing.  they have had now 3 iterations of 120-300 2.8 OS.  If they could only come with a new 120-400 lens, which is as good as the current canon optically, and with better OS (which their 120-400 already has) and reliable autofocus and tracking, that would be awesome.

In the ultrawides, samyang has the 14 2.8, which is already optically fantastic, and the new 24 TSE, which is hopefully good.    I think an affordable and excellent prime in 17-21mm range.

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joger
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Re: So, rumor has it...
In reply to Great Bustard, 11 months ago

Great Bustard wrote:

...that Sigma's working on releasing a 135 / 1.8 OS and a 24 / 1.4, both "art" lenses, by the end of this year or the beginning of next year.  Like I said, just a rumor, but if I were Sigma, that's what I'd do.

That leaves 50mm open for Canon.  I'd be pleased to see a 50 / 2 IS ala the 35 / 2 IS and/or a 50 / 1.2L II.

But what we're missing is a fast 17mm prime.  I think that's gotta come from Sigma, since Canon has the 14 / 2.8L II and 17 TSE.  Then again, maybe Sigma might think to redo their 20 / 1.8, although that's a bit too close to 24mm, I would think.

Let's not forget zooms, though.  I think the 24-200mm range is pretty well covered at the moment.  So, I'm wondering if someone isn't working on a killer UWA zoom.

How say you all?

For what do you need a fast AF 17 mm prime?

i mean - what is the benefit of a moderate shallow depth of field on a super wide angle lens except the fact that you can win a bit more room for maneuver in the exposure time (which is not an issue any more since ISO 3200 is good enough for most situations)

The TS-E 17 is as good as it gets optically and I have not seen to date a better wide angle lens in real world results (even shifted it is still fabulous)

On the 135 f/1.8 I share your hopes and that would be a nice and welcome addition to the market.

On the price side I can only add that you always get what you pay for. I get two service dates for free at CPS every year and each time three lenses and one body (including sensor cleaning) gets checked and if necessary calibrated for free (in Germany). All major events have CPS on site with emergency help and rental stuff.

The newly introduced higher priced Canon lenses have a very low piece to piece variation and you can buy them wherever you want and be sure you get a good one (at least to my experience) - bought my 70-200 in HongKong for 2/3rds of the german price and it is a top notch version.

The used price for good condition mint Canon lenses are just amazing (look at the used 300 IS prices on ebay)

The reliability is on a very high level and those new tele lenses seem to built like a tank (whatever that means for a lens)

So you really get what you pay for IMHO

For me only a faster 135 is missing and a better 50 f/1.2 or even better a f/1.0 - maybe a nice 100-300 f/4.0 on the level of the 70-200 f/4.0 l IS USM would be really nice - that would be a killer lens.

My (shifted and stitched) TS-E 17 is serving me very well for wide angle shots down to a virtual FOV of 11 mm on FF.

Maybe the rumored EF 28-35 f/1.6-2.1 could be very interesting replacing two primes with an interesting aperture and range and the rumored TS-E 1X0 macro could be extremely nice - I would buy both for 2.5 k EUR each - I would buy an excellent 100-300 f/4.0 l IS USM for 3 k EUR as well. These would be the last (IMHO important) gaps in the Canon lens portfolio.

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Great Bustard
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Re: So, rumor has it...
In reply to joger, 11 months ago

joger wrote:

Great Bustard wrote:

...that Sigma's working on releasing a 135 / 1.8 OS and a 24 / 1.4, both "art" lenses, by the end of this year or the beginning of next year.  Like I said, just a rumor, but if I were Sigma, that's what I'd do.

That leaves 50mm open for Canon.  I'd be pleased to see a 50 / 2 IS ala the 35 / 2 IS and/or a 50 / 1.2L II.

But what we're missing is a fast 17mm prime.  I think that's gotta come from Sigma, since Canon has the 14 / 2.8L II and 17 TSE.  Then again, maybe Sigma might think to redo their 20 / 1.8, although that's a bit too close to 24mm, I would think.

Let's not forget zooms, though.  I think the 24-200mm range is pretty well covered at the moment.  So, I'm wondering if someone isn't working on a killer UWA zoom.

How say you all?

For what do you need a fast AF 17 mm prime?

Well, "need" is a strong word.  Let's say "want", instead.  Anyway, the reason I'd want such a lens is that I like the look of shallow DOF UWA.  However, as you would imagine, this requires a close focusing distance.  On the other hand, wide apertures on wide focal lengths can give quite deep DOF for many scenes, which is also a plus for light limited enviroments where there is motion that I'd like frozen.

i mean - what is the benefit of a moderate shallow depth of field on a super wide angle lens except the fact that you can win a bit more room for maneuver in the exposure time (which is not an issue any more since ISO 3200 is good enough for most situations)

Well, sure, there's always the "good enough" argument.  However, if we pursue that argument, I should be shooting crop instead of FF, no?

The TS-E 17 is as good as it gets optically and I have not seen to date a better wide angle lens in real world results (even shifted it is still fabulous)

I concur.  Rather expensive, though, and no AF.  And, yeah, I would need AF at 17mm much of the time.

In any case, I'd love a 17 / 2 that was sharp in the center from the get-go, sharp from corner-to-corner by f/4, and as sharp as sharp gets everywhere in the frame by f/5.6.

On the 135 f/1.8 I share your hopes and that would be a nice and welcome addition to the market.

Indeed.  The OS would surely be nice to have at that focal length, too.

On the price side I can only add that you always get what you pay for. I get two service dates for free at CPS every year and each time three lenses and one body (including sensor cleaning) gets checked and if necessary calibrated for free (in Germany). All major events have CPS on site with emergency help and rental stuff.

The newly introduced higher priced Canon lenses have a very low piece to piece variation and you can buy them wherever you want and be sure you get a good one (at least to my experience) - bought my 70-200 in HongKong for 2/3rds of the german price and it is a top notch version.

The used price for good condition mint Canon lenses are just amazing (look at the used 300 IS prices on ebay)

The reliability is on a very high level and those new tele lenses seem to built like a tank (whatever that means for a lens)

So you really get what you pay for IMHO

Well, I've been very happy with all my lenses, Canon and Sigma, and the Sigma 35 / 1.4 is a bargain compared to the Canon 35 / 1.4L.

For me only a faster 135 is missing and a better 50 f/1.2 or even better a f/1.0 - maybe a nice 100-300 f/4.0 on the level of the 70-200 f/4.0 l IS USM would be really nice - that would be a killer lens.

A 100-300 / 4 OS should definitely be coming from Sigma, and someone (Tamron?) needs to make a 200-500 / 5.6 VC.

My (shifted and stitched) TS-E 17 is serving me very well for wide angle shots down to a virtual FOV of 11 mm on FF.

Indeed.

Maybe the rumored EF 28-35 f/1.6-2.1 could be very interesting replacing two primes with an interesting aperture and range and the rumored TS-E 1X0 macro could be extremely nice - I would buy both for 2.5 k EUR each - I would buy an excellent 100-300 f/4.0 l IS USM for 3 k EUR as well. These would be the last (IMHO important) gaps in the Canon lens portfolio.

I'd wager heavily against such a lens ever coming out, but I think a 14-28 / 2.8 and/or a 17-40 / 4L II has got to be in the works.

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Great Bustard
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Re: So, rumor has it...
In reply to kevindar, 11 months ago

kevindar wrote:

Sigma has made some nice lenses recently, and as canon prices sky rocketted, sigma lenses have been more appealing.  they have had now 3 iterations of 120-300 2.8 OS.  If they could only come with a new 120-400 lens, which is as good as the current canon optically, and with better OS (which their 120-400 already has) and reliable autofocus and tracking, that would be awesome.

I'm thinking a 100-300 / 4 OS and hopefully someone (Tamron?) might make a 200-500 / 5.6 VC.

In the ultrawides, samyang has the 14 2.8, which is already optically fantastic...

Except for the distortion.  Does that correct well in post?

...and the new 24 TSE, which is hopefully good.

Will be interesting to see.

I think an affordable and excellent prime in 17-21mm range.

For sure.  The question is how to best balance size, weight, and cost.  A 17 / 4 prime that was sharp from wide open would be excellent for good light deep DOF photographers (and most people are into deeper DOFs with UWA).  A 17 / 2.8 would be a nice alternative to the larger and heavier UWA zooms and offer better IQ.  A 17 / 2, however, might be pushing it, but there was Sigma's 20 / 1.8, so I don't think it's unreasonable.

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inkblot
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Re: So, rumor has it...
In reply to Great Bustard, 11 months ago

I know you're a FF user, but FWIW, I'd like to see an Art version of their 8-16 DC with larger aperture. And if their not too busy, a 400 f/4 OS would be nice too!

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joger
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Re: So, rumor has it...
In reply to Great Bustard, 11 months ago

Great Bustard wrote:

joger wrote:

For what do you need a fast AF 17 mm prime?

Well, "need" is a strong word.  Let's say "want", instead.  Anyway, the reason I'd want such a lens is that I like the look of shallow DOF UWA.  However, as you would imagine, this requires a close focusing distance.  On the other hand, wide apertures on wide focal lengths can give quite deep DOF for many scenes, which is also a plus for light limited enviroments where there is motion that I'd like frozen.

i mean - what is the benefit of a moderate shallow depth of field on a super wide angle lens except the fact that you can win a bit more room for maneuver in the exposure time (which is not an issue any more since ISO 3200 is good enough for most situations)

Well, sure, there's always the "good enough" argument.  However, if we pursue that argument, I should be shooting crop instead of FF, no?

The TS-E 17 is as good as it gets optically and I have not seen to date a better wide angle lens in real world results (even shifted it is still fabulous)

I concur.  Rather expensive, though, and no AF.  And, yeah, I would need AF at 17mm much of the time.

In any case, I'd love a 17 / 2 that was sharp in the center from the get-go, sharp from corner-to-corner by f/4, and as sharp as sharp gets everywhere in the frame by f/5.6.

just out of curiosity:

seems like with all aperture (even near) almost everything seems to be in focus - hm ??

With the TS-E 17 you can tilt and get a really shallow DOF - AF is not needed aas long as the focussing ring is smooth enough and the AF assist works well - of course a matter of personal taste.

For me the TS-E 17 is currently the best UWA on the market (Distagon 15 mm to be rented and tested by me)

A 17 mm f/2.0 would cost a fortune from Canon and you'd loose tilt and shift and maybe you win not very much in shallow DOF - I mean 6 m DOF at f/2.0 is still almost everything in focus.

I fully agree on FF vs crop with longer lenses - there is a huge difference IMHO 50 % more DOF can make a huge difference when you want only a few inches in focus

of course a matter of taste - just wanted to add some thoughts and calculations

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Keith Z Leonard
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Re: So, rumor has it...
In reply to Great Bustard, 11 months ago

I'd love to see Sigma put out a 24-70 f2.8 OS Art with FLD glass that can stand up to the Canon L.  Maybe in the 1000-1300$ range?  That would make my day.

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Great Bustard
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Re: So, rumor has it...
In reply to joger, 11 months ago

joger wrote:

Great Bustard wrote:

joger wrote:

For what do you need a fast AF 17 mm prime?

Well, "need" is a strong word.  Let's say "want", instead.  Anyway, the reason I'd want such a lens is that I like the look of shallow DOF UWA.  However, as you would imagine, this requires a close focusing distance.  On the other hand, wide apertures on wide focal lengths can give quite deep DOF for many scenes, which is also a plus for light limited enviroments where there is motion that I'd like frozen.

i mean - what is the benefit of a moderate shallow depth of field on a super wide angle lens except the fact that you can win a bit more room for maneuver in the exposure time (which is not an issue any more since ISO 3200 is good enough for most situations)

Well, sure, there's always the "good enough" argument.  However, if we pursue that argument, I should be shooting crop instead of FF, no?

The TS-E 17 is as good as it gets optically and I have not seen to date a better wide angle lens in real world results (even shifted it is still fabulous)

I concur.  Rather expensive, though, and no AF.  And, yeah, I would need AF at 17mm much of the time.

In any case, I'd love a 17 / 2 that was sharp in the center from the get-go, sharp from corner-to-corner by f/4, and as sharp as sharp gets everywhere in the frame by f/5.6.

just out of curiosity:

seems like with all aperture (even near) almost everything seems to be in focus - hm ??

Indeed, for a subject distance of 3 meters, and, of course, that's a bonus for when you want a deeper DOF in a low light environment and you want to freeze motion.

With the TS-E 17 you can tilt and get a really shallow DOF - AF is not needed aas long as the focussing ring is smooth enough and the AF assist works well - of course a matter of personal taste.

For me the TS-E 17 is currently the best UWA on the market (Distagon 15 mm to be rented and tested by me)

A 17 mm f/2.0 would cost a fortune from Canon and you'd loose tilt and shift and maybe you win not very much in shallow DOF - I mean 6 m DOF at f/2.0 is still almost everything in focus.

Well, the Sigma 20 / 1.8 doesn't cost a fortune, and the Sigma 35 / 1.4 outperforms the Canon 35 / 1.4L and costs less.  So, for sure, a Sigma 17 / 2 "art" lens will cost more than their 20 / 1.8, but I'm betting it would cost considerably less than the Canon 17 TSE.

I fully agree on FF vs crop with longer lenses - there is a huge difference IMHO 50 % more DOF can make a huge difference when you want only a few inches in focus

of course a matter of taste - just wanted to add some thoughts and calculations

You can shoot whatever DOF you want on FF -- just stop down.  The advantage of crop is the higher pixel density of the sensor for when you are magnification or focal length limited.

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Great Bustard
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Re: So, rumor has it...
In reply to inkblot, 11 months ago

inkblot wrote:

I know you're a FF user, but FWIW, I'd like to see an Art version of their 8-16 DC with larger aperture.

Well, I'm thinking that won't come for a bit, as they just announced their 18-35 / 1.8.

And if their not too busy, a 400 f/4 OS would be nice too!

I think a 500 / 5.6 OS would be better for most.

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Great Bustard
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Re: So, rumor has it...
In reply to Keith Z Leonard, 11 months ago

Keith Z Leonard wrote:

I'd love to see Sigma put out a 24-70 f2.8 OS Art with FLD glass that can stand up to the Canon L.  Maybe in the 1000-1300$ range?  That would make my day.

But they'd be competing against Canon's and Tamron's latest releases in that market.  But, for sure, there's a big market for a normal zoom, and if they can make theirs a compelling choice over the competition...

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Wyville
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Re: So, rumor has it...
In reply to Great Bustard, 11 months ago

Great Bustard wrote:

...that Sigma's working on releasing a 135 / 1.8 OS and a 24 / 1.4, both "art" lenses, by the end of this year or the beginning of next year.  Like I said, just a rumor, but if I were Sigma, that's what I'd do.

That leaves 50mm open for Canon.  I'd be pleased to see a 50 / 2 IS ala the 35 / 2 IS and/or a 50 / 1.2L II.

But what we're missing is a fast 17mm prime.  I think that's gotta come from Sigma, since Canon has the 14 / 2.8L II and 17 TSE.  Then again, maybe Sigma might think to redo their 20 / 1.8, although that's a bit too close to 24mm, I would think.

Let's not forget zooms, though.  I think the 24-200mm range is pretty well covered at the moment.  So, I'm wondering if someone isn't working on a killer UWA zoom.

How say you all?

Personally I'm far more interested in what Sigma will do with primes in the 300-600mm range. Right now they don't really have anything serious as both the 300 and 500 have to do without IS/OS and the performance of the 300 isn't better than that of the 120-300/2.8. With Canon's current focus on the professional market, there is room for Sigma to make a move. I would even say especially with lenses like a 300/4 or 400/5.6. If they make the last one with OS and as a "sport" lens, it would instantly gulp up Canon's market share. Not to mention drawing in Nikon users. (If I understand correctly the D7100 does AF at f/8, so a 1.4x TC would work for them.)

That said, I would still like to see more UWA primes. If Sigma can do a 14/2.8 "art" I would be interested.

I do think Canon has been working on a killer UWA zoom for some time, something similar to the Nikkor 14-24/2.8. But considering the problems Canon has been having with their new lens releases, that one might still be a long way out.

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William DIllard
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Re: So, rumor has it...
In reply to Great Bustard, 11 months ago

Great Bustard wrote:

...that Sigma's working on releasing a 135 / 1.8 OS and a 24 / 1.4, both "art" lenses, by the end of this year or the beginning of next year.  Like I said, just a rumor, but if I were Sigma, that's what I'd do.

That leaves 50mm open for Canon.  I'd be pleased to see a 50 / 2 IS ala the 35 / 2 IS and/or a 50 / 1.2L II.

But what we're missing is a fast 17mm prime.  I think that's gotta come from Sigma, since Canon has the 14 / 2.8L II and 17 TSE.  Then again, maybe Sigma might think to redo their 20 / 1.8, although that's a bit too close to 24mm, I would think.

Let's not forget zooms, though.  I think the 24-200mm range is pretty well covered at the moment.  So, I'm wondering if someone isn't working on a killer UWA zoom.

How say you all ?

I like the idea of a 135 1.8 lens mucho ! There is one already I'm not sure but I think it is Zeiss and it works on Sony Camera's as I recall. I saw a portrait taken with it and I can find it I will post the link !

I'm pretty happy with my 50L. Seems to work better on the 6D than the 5D. I think the Sigma 35 1.4 is awesome but I have no real interest in that range for a prime because I have a 24-70 and the 50L is enough. But I saw a great portrait of a beautiful woman taken with the 35 1.4 Sigma. Great blur and a slightly exaggeratd enlongated  projection of her upper body ! If someone gave me the lens would not turn it down !

I would love to have a fast prime in the 24 to 28mm range though.

As far as the 14mm range no real interest in a prime. I may pick up the Tamron 17-35 or a 12-20 ultra wide zoom !

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joger
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Re: So, rumor has it...
In reply to Great Bustard, 11 months ago

Great Bustard wrote:

. . . You can shoot whatever DOF you want on FF -- just stop down.  The advantage of crop is the higher pixel density of the sensor for when you are magnification or focal length limited.

that's new to me

There is no current f/1.0 or larger aperture lens with AF and there is only one excellent f/1.2 lens currently in production.

I thought your comment was about the wide open shallow DOF possibility and with FF you're currently limited to f/1.2 on Canon and to f/1.4 on Nikon and Sony FF

There would be room for some nice really fast lenses especially for 50 mm - this cought my attention lately

Let's cross fingers that Canon does something similar for 1/2 the price or with f/1.2 maybe for 2/3rds of the price

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qianp2k
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Re: So, rumor has it...
In reply to Great Bustard, 11 months ago

Sure. Canon two UWA zoom 17-40L and 16-35L need to be replaced. Canon 14-24L/2.8 or 12-24L/2.8 is still a CR1 rumor. Certainly there are rooms for third party design and release a UWA zoom. But I guess UWA zoom is among the most difficult designed and manufactured lenses. To me I just fell 17mm TS-E is more useful and I can live in the gap between 17-24mm. UWA lens at 14mm has lots of distortion. After fixing the converging verticals it will not be 14mm wide, and still not very sharp in edges/corners until stop down.

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qianp2k
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Re: So, rumor has it...
In reply to joger, 11 months ago

joger wrote:

Great Bustard wrote:

. . . You can shoot whatever DOF you want on FF -- just stop down.  The advantage of crop is the higher pixel density of the sensor for when you are magnification or focal length limited.

that's new to me

There is no current f/1.0 or larger aperture lens with AF and there is only one excellent f/1.2 lens currently in production.

LOL, I thought another crop advantage on equivalent DOF, so he give up finally? 

I thought your comment was about the wide open shallow DOF possibility and with FF you're currently limited to f/1.2 on Canon and to f/1.4 on Nikon and Sony FF

There would be room for some nice really fast lenses especially for 50 mm - this cought my attention lately

Let's cross fingers that Canon does something similar for 1/2 the price or with f/1.2 maybe for 2/3rds of the price

It will be nice if Sigma update its 50/1.4 with one similar to 35/1.4, 50/1.4 Art at half price of 50L.

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technic
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Re: So, rumor has it...
In reply to Wyville, 11 months ago

Wyville wrote:

Personally I'm far more interested in what Sigma will do with primes in the 300-600mm range. Right now they don't really have anything serious as both the 300 and 500 have to do without IS/OS and the performance of the 300 isn't better than that of the 120-300/2.8. With Canon's current focus on the professional market, there is room for Sigma to make a move. I would even say especially with lenses like a 300/4 or 400/5.6.

There was a rumour last year that a 2.8/300 is coming from Sigma, but that doesn't seem very likely given the overlap with their 2.8/120-300 (also pricewise). If they can make it small, light and high quality I would certainly be interested, as the Canon 2.8/300IS is too expensive for hobby photographers.

A high quality 4/300 or 5.6/400 with IS would be more interesting, at least as long as Canon does not provide an updated version of their affordable tele primes. However, Sigma doesn't have much experience when it comes to building compact, light and high quality tele primes ...

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technic
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Re: So, rumor has it...
In reply to Great Bustard, 11 months ago

there is some room for a few additional FF WA primes, but there is plenty of room for APS-C (S)WA primes, either bright and/or high quality.

The new f/1.8 Sigma WA zoom is impressive, but who wants to walk around with such a huge (and probably very expensive) lens? Why not offer some really good, compact f/1.4 or f/2.0 primes in the 12-20mm range (18-30mm effective)?

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Canon EOS 450D Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II Canon EF 200mm f/2.8L II USM Canon EF 300mm f/4.0L IS USM Canon EF-S 15-85mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM +5 more
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Great Bustard
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Re: So, rumor has it...
In reply to joger, 11 months ago

joger wrote:

Great Bustard wrote:

. . . You can shoot whatever DOF you want on FF -- just stop down.  The advantage of crop is the higher pixel density of the sensor for when you are magnification or focal length limited.

that's new to me

There is no current f/1.0 or larger aperture lens with AF and there is only one excellent f/1.2 lens currently in production.

I thought your comment was about the wide open shallow DOF possibility and with FF you're currently limited to f/1.2 on Canon and to f/1.4 on Nikon and Sony FF

There would be room for some nice really fast lenses especially for 50 mm - this cought my attention lately

Let's cross fingers that Canon does something similar for 1/2 the price or with f/1.2 maybe for 2/3rds of the price

Or Sigma with an "art" lens for 1/3 the price.

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Keith Z Leonard
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Re: So, rumor has it...
In reply to Great Bustard, 11 months ago

Great Bustard wrote:

Keith Z Leonard wrote:

I'd love to see Sigma put out a 24-70 f2.8 OS Art with FLD glass that can stand up to the Canon L.  Maybe in the 1000-1300$ range?  That would make my day.

But they'd be competing against Canon's and Tamron's latest releases in that market.  But, for sure, there's a big market for a normal zoom, and if they can make theirs a compelling choice over the competition...

They compete with them in lots of markets, and really they'd be in competition with the Tammy for making a quality standard zoom with stabilization.  The Canon costs so much more that I think it's probably a bit different market.  It'd be great if they could compete there optically like their 17-50 dies with the Canon 17-55, but they really only need to be close to or better than the Tamron.

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