Just for fun: Canon 5D MK2 vs. Sigma SD1, which is which?

Started May 5, 2013 | Discussions
(unknown member) Senior Member • Posts: 1,857
Just for fun: Canon 5D MK2 vs. Sigma SD1, which is which?
2

Three shots with the Canon 5D MK2/24-105L and Sigma SD1/17-50EX
The Canon images are downscaled to 4704 x 3136 to match the SD1.
(I know, both lenses are mediocre and suffer from edge sharpness..)

Anyway: which 3 images are from Sigma and which 3 from Canon?

A:

FULL RES: 
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/713519/5DvsSD1/A.jpg

B:

Image B

FULL RES:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/713519/5DvsSD1/B.jpg

C:

Image C

FULL RES:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/713519/5DvsSD1/C.jpg

D:

Image D

FULL RES:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/713519/5DvsSD1/D.jpg

E:

Image E

FULL RES:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/713519/5DvsSD1/E.jpg

F:

FULL RES:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/713519/5DvsSD1/F.jpg

Canon EOS 5D Sigma SD1
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jennyrae Senior Member • Posts: 2,690
Re: Just for fun: Canon 5D MK2 vs. Sigma SD1, which is which?

A, D and E is Sigma. if true, Sigma has more detail texture, yes?

Staxxx Regular Member • Posts: 257
Re: Just for fun: Canon 5D MK2 vs. Sigma SD1, which is which?

I can hardly tell the difference and honestly the 5D II is an excellent camera. But i agree with the poster above. Are the pictures taken at maximum resolution possible?

SigmaChrome Forum Pro • Posts: 11,514
Re: Just for fun: Canon 5D MK2 vs. Sigma SD1, which is which?

Of course if you make the full size image links clickable - which is so easy to do, just use the chain Link button at the top of the editor - then the exercise might be worthwhile. If you don't know how to do this, just ask someone or look up the DPR help.

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brittonx
brittonx Senior Member • Posts: 2,445
Re: Just for fun: Canon 5D MK2 vs. Sigma SD1, which is which?

jennyrae wrote:

A, D and E is Sigma. if true, Sigma has more detail texture, yes?

Agreed.  A, D, & E look like SD1

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OP (unknown member) Senior Member • Posts: 1,857
Re: Just for fun: Canon 5D MK2 vs. Sigma SD1, which is which?

Yes i know, but it was too late to edit the posting. I'll try to fix it. Sorry for that.

SigmaChrome wrote:

Of course if you make the full size image links clickable - which is so easy to do, just use the chain Link button at the top of the editor - then the exercise might be worthwhile. If you don't know how to do this, just ask someone or look up the DPR help.

magneto shot Senior Member • Posts: 1,609
Re: Just for fun: Canon 5D MK2 vs. Sigma SD1, which is which?
1

I just looked at the images above without the full-res...guesses are

B-D-F = sigma

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Boris Moscow Contributing Member • Posts: 784
My take.

B and D are from Sigma.

Based solely on that they look with no digital sandpaper to my eyes.

E or F is more difficult since "F" is over-saturated and looks therefore too aggressive to my eyes.

If not that it could me from Sigma as well.

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digi2ap Contributing Member • Posts: 748
Re: Just for fun: Canon 5D MK2 vs. Sigma SD1, which is which?

I find it difficult to tell with C/D but I think A rather than B is the SD1 and possibly E rather than F.

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DMillier Forum Pro • Posts: 21,283
Re: Good test!
1

In all the years I've been on this forum I've called for simple comparisons of this type and normally it falls on deaf ears, with all sorts of mis-matched images or cherry picked examples or plain old excuses produced for not doing it. So far I still think. Chromelight and my 14MP shootout has been the best to date.

Your test is exactly what I've been asking for. So well done for that.

My guess as to what is the Sigma:

A

D

(because of the edge in detail)

E

(closer with this subject but there is some luminance aliasing on the bicycle wheel in E which I associate with the absence of an AA filter).

Overall feeling:

- The differences between shots are very small, pixel peepers' territory only.

- Colour doesn't look crazy in any of these. Evidence that Foveon colour is maturing to look like every other maker?

- I see no evidence of any magical Foveon qualities (3d, roundness, subtlety etc), it's a straight resolution fight. I've assumed the highest resolving is the Sigma in my picks.

- It would be good also to see a reverse comparison with the Sd1 rezzed up to match Canon pixel count

- I did a set of my own comparisons using some of Sandy's Mkii images and I felt that the dP2m was better, but the difference wasn't big in 10,000 pixel blow ups. But her images weren't as well matched as yours

Conclusion

For me, if this is representative of results in general, I'd choose the camera that suited me best operationally as a practical working tool as I don't regard this degree small of difference as meaningful and I don't really print larger than 15 x 10 inches. The differences on show here would not be visible.

Thanks again for this

D

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OP (unknown member) Senior Member • Posts: 1,857
Congratulations, most of you were right: Sigma is A, D, E

Some thoughts:

At full resolution i find it quiet easy to tell which is which, especially at the center of the image, where Sigma shows more microcontrast and sharpness. But it's also obviously that the 24-105mm lens is better than the 17-50mm at the corners, so the advantage of the SD1 is gone.

Dynamic Range:

All 3 images are ISO 100 to make it more hard for you to see differences when comparing noise
I made much more pictures than this three and for me its clear, that the Canon 5D has better highlight recovery (skies) when both cameras are set to ISO 100, i would say about 1 stop advantage. 
Things change when setting the SD1 to ISO 200, this gives you roughly one stop more highlight recovery, so in the end they are more or less on the same level. 
Thats actually a good result for an APS-C sensor against full frame.

Noise:

I was shocked about the color noise of the 5D MK2 in the shadows when turning off the default
noise reduction in Lightroom. Even at ISO 100.
On the other side, it's perfectly fixable because it's very constant compared to Sigmas color noise.
however, color noise is not an issue for the SD1 at ISO 100.

Maceo

DMillier Forum Pro • Posts: 21,283
Re: Congratulations, most of you were right: Sigma is A, D, E

Lightroom applies colour noise reduction to every camera, the actual setting being under user control and a matter of taste. Presumably SPP has its own noise reduction methods behind the scenes.We never get to see the unvarnished truth of sensor performance in raw converters!

Your estimate of DR seems to match mine ie it's similar to most Bayer cameras before the Exmor line of Sony sensors which has changed the game for Sony sensor customers. Canon for so long the leader in cmso sensors, is lagging.  I wonder if they are lazily resting on their laurels or whether they have something new hidden away....

Resolution-wise, you seem to be confirming more or less what most people say: that Foveon provides more where between 1.5x to 2x more luminance resolution per pixel.

Your shots probably don't reveal the additional Foveon advantage of resolution not dropping at red/blue saturated boundaries - which is reasonable given such subjects are rare.

A good way to show real world differences and one people ought to follow as it removes the scope for a lot of fruitless argument...

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jennyrae Senior Member • Posts: 2,690
Re: Congratulations, most of you were right: Sigma is A, D, E

what fruitless argument?

Halldor Eiriksson Senior Member • Posts: 1,989
Re: Congratulations, most of you were right: Sigma is A, D, E

DMillier wrote:

"We never get to see the unvarnished truth of sensor performance in raw converters!"

Have you used Silkipix?  When I look at SD15 files there, they are pretty noisy when noise reduction is turned off, at base iso, i.e. away from default settings.  I have the feeling you can turn it off entirely there, but I'm not at all sure about that.  If so, it could apply to other raws as well.

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SandyF Forum Pro • Posts: 14,941
Re: Just for fun: Canon 5D MK2 vs. Sigma SD1, which is which?

My guesses:
A, D, F are Sigma.
B, C, E are 5DII.
Quick guesses; didn't look at large sizes.

Best regards, Sandy
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http://www.flickr.com/photos/sandyfleischmann (current)

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DMillier Forum Pro • Posts: 21,283
Re: Congratulations, most of you were right: Sigma is A, D, E
1

As a 16,000 posts + veteran of dpreview, I think I am competent to recognise a fruitless argument...

Most of them get that way because they are people swapping words and opinions unsubstantiated by a single fact. The OP has done something that would have saved many thousands of those posts: he has produced some well done side by side comparisons that allow anyone to easily judge the differences for themselves.  Much better than a war of opinions between fanboys and sceptics.

I have my own comparison written a few years ago and still coming out well in google searches:

http://whisperingcat.co.uk/wp/home/articles/the-great-14mp-shootout-sigma-sd14-vs-kodak-14nx/

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Chuck Lantz Veteran Member • Posts: 4,332
Re: Just for fun: Canon 5D MK2 vs. Sigma SD1, which is which?

Great test, and thanks for posting it. As Millier said, these types of tests are worth much more than just words and opinions.  It's interesting that after knowing which were which, it becomes much more obvious which were shot with the Sigma.  I know that sounds a bit dumb, but I hope some will get it. For one thing, the native sharpness of the Sigma really stands out, though the Canon shots - without the side-by-side comparison - look fine on their own.

The bottom line now seems to be just that, ... the bottom line.  The SD1 is much less expensive than the Canon. The rest is just smoke and mirrors.

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jennyrae Senior Member • Posts: 2,690
Re: Congratulations, most of you were right: Sigma is A, D, E

I don't understand. person just posted the obvious. is there something different?

DMillier Forum Pro • Posts: 21,283
Re: Congratulations, most of you were right: Sigma is A, D, E
1

Yes, you won't find many straight forward comparisons like this on the forum.

Going back over the years, you'll find comparisons taken of different subjects in different light, single images from foveon accompanied by glowing praise but rarely, oh so rarely, a simple straight comparison of identical pairs of shots like this.

You'll also find (if you could be bothered to look) quite a few threads in which calls for comparisons of this type draw responses of scorn and derision. The mere act of asking upsets some people.To the point that Chromelight and I had to set up a shoot to do it ourselves (hence my article).

So, yes, it's really great to see such an obvious set of comparison images.

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