6D vs 7D --- Image Quality (there's no comparison)

Started May 4, 2013 | Discussions
atodzia
Forum MemberPosts: 56
Like?
Re: 6D vs 7D --- Image Quality (there's no comparison)
In reply to mariadc, May 5, 2013

The problem I had with the 7D is that I used it mainly for wildlife, especially birds, and needed to shoot at 800 or 1600 ISO most of the time because of subject movement. When you get into those ISO's the noise started to bother me. I may also had a 7D that had a little more noise than others. I used my 5D III and prior to that 5D II for everything else.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
carlk
Forum ProPosts: 15,836Gear list
Like?
Re: 6D vs 7D --- Image Quality (there's no comparison)
In reply to mariadc, May 5, 2013

mariadc wrote:

Even with the extra reach I get with my 100-400 on the 7D, if I crop in just a little, the noise is just terrible, at least after a month of using a 6D.

Just remember you need to crop a lot more with your 6D image to match that of 7D.  7D is still the best when you're reach limited with your long lens.

 carlk's gear list:carlk's gear list
Canon EOS 50D Canon EOS 7D Nikon D800E Fujifilm X-E1 Canon EF 85mm f/1.2L II USM +6 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
kelpdiver
Senior MemberPosts: 1,899
Like?
Re: 6D vs 7D --- Image Quality (there's no comparison)
In reply to mariadc, May 5, 2013

mariadc wrote:

HOWEVER...  there's no comparison to the IQ of the 6D.  Even with the extra reach I get with my 100-400 on the 7D, if I crop in just a little, the noise is just terrible, at least after a month of using a 6D.  Granted, it was about 7:30am this morning and the lighting wasn't great yet, but it wasn't dark by any means.   This may sound crazy, but I feel that I got less noise with my 30D.

You might be a bit crazy, yes.   Though really I think it's just a matter of giving the 7d a single shot in conditions that aren't to its best, comparing it to all use (and levels of light) of the 30d (and the 6).

And if this was all jpeg comparisons, not raw, then certainly the 5d3/6d will destroy the 7 since jpeg noise reduction is a bit part of the Digic 5. (and in the DXO tradition, did you reduce the size of the 7 image to match the 8mp resolution of the 30?  Or pixel level comparison even though it was twice the pixel count?)

I replaced my 30 with a 7 and never looked back, other than to use it as the secondary lens body on a two camera shoot.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
mariadc
Regular MemberPosts: 136Gear list
Like?
Re: 6D vs 7D --- Image Quality (there's no comparison)
In reply to mariadc, May 7, 2013

I took more pictures today with the 7D.  It was overcast, so I expected similar results as the early morning shots I took over the weekend (vs the bright sunny day shots).  And I was right:  quite a bit of noise.  Yes, it focuses pretty fast, but I don't see any more detail (actually less) than the 6D.  Combined with the noise, the IQ just isn't the same.

My final analysis:  more shots were in focus with the 7D but not many.  I've been taking BIF flight shots almost daily with the 6D for about a month now, practicing on swallows and small birds since those are the toughest to capture in flight, in addition to the larger ones (ospreys and eagles, plus seagulls, ducks, and geese) when I get a chance.  With that practice of probably well over a thousand BIF shots with the 6D, I feel that I can get just as many keepers now (or pretty close) to what I'm getting with the 7D.

I want to like the 7D better, and kept giving it another chance.  It's cheaper and has a further reach with the crop factor (and I like CF cards better than SD cards).  But, other than those reasons, that's about it.  So I think I'll be keeping the 6D.

 mariadc's gear list:mariadc's gear list
Canon PowerShot S95 Canon EOS 30D Canon EF 50mm f/1.4 USM Canon EF-S 17-85mm f/4-5.6 IS USM Canon EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L IS USM
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Mike921
Regular MemberPosts: 284Gear list
Like?
Re: 6D vs 7D --- Image Quality (there's no comparison)
In reply to mariadc, May 7, 2013

So, comparing a latest technology FF camera with a 2+ year old crop frame camera - and this is a valid discussion about what again?

 Mike921's gear list:Mike921's gear list
Canon PowerShot S400 Canon PowerShot S2 IS Canon PowerShot G12 Canon EOS 7D Canon EOS-1D X +9 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
mariadc
Regular MemberPosts: 136Gear list
Like?
Re: 6D vs 7D --- Image Quality (there's no comparison)
In reply to Mike921, May 7, 2013

For lack of comparable updated models in this price range, they are the two that folks like me with older DSLRs are looking to upgrade to.  I don't want a Rebel-line camera, and if not for the affordability of a full frame in the 6D, would probably have gone with a 7D.

Still a relevant discussion, even if the 7D is two years old.

 mariadc's gear list:mariadc's gear list
Canon PowerShot S95 Canon EOS 30D Canon EF 50mm f/1.4 USM Canon EF-S 17-85mm f/4-5.6 IS USM Canon EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L IS USM
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
riknash
Veteran MemberPosts: 3,350Gear list
Like?
Re: 6D vs 7D --- Image Quality (there's no comparison)
In reply to Mike921, May 7, 2013

Mike921 wrote:

So, comparing a latest technology FF camera with a 2+ year old crop frame camera - and this is a valid discussion about what again?

In my mind, this is a discussion about if a FF camera can deliver equal or better image results than the 7D. Canon has yet to come out with a much improved APS-C sensor in an action camera, so it is still valid to compare the output of a FF with it, as many have chosen to utilize their FF camera in situations one would think would be better served with a crop sensor.

Shooting the same dining merlin with the same lens at the same physical distance with both a 7D and a 5DIII.

Male merlin having lunch.

 riknash's gear list:riknash's gear list
Canon EOS 7D Sony Alpha NEX-7 Canon EOS 5D Mark III HTC One
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Alton (TN)
Contributing MemberPosts: 992
Like?
Neat Image...
In reply to mariadc, May 7, 2013

Coming from the 5DII to the 7D I was at first alarmed at the noise on the 7D. I bought a copy of Neat Image and now I'm good at 1600 ISO and below. I've since added the 5DIII and love it.

However, for birding I still use the 7D about 85% of the time. When I do use the 5DIII it is not because of the noise of the 7D but the superior AF of the 5DIII.

Even on the 5DIII I still need/like to use Neat Image for noise on most shots. But using the 7D, it is a life saver. Noise Ninja (and others) would probably work too.

If you take a P&S along for convenience, NI also works wonders on those noisy shots.

My hope for the 7DII (or whatever the successor is called) is that it has a 5DIII like AF and better high ISO / low light performance with the AF being the most important. But I can work with the noise if it remains.

-- hide signature --

Alton

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
schmegg
schmegg MOD
Senior MemberPosts: 5,017
Like?
Re: 6D vs 7D --- Image Quality (there's no comparison)
In reply to riknash, May 7, 2013

riknash wrote:

Mike921 wrote:

So, comparing a latest technology FF camera with a 2+ year old crop frame camera - and this is a valid discussion about what again?

In my mind, this is a discussion about if a FF camera can deliver equal or better image results than the 7D. Canon has yet to come out with a much improved APS-C sensor in an action camera, so it is still valid to compare the output of a FF with it, as many have chosen to utilize their FF camera in situations one would think would be better served with a crop sensor.

Shooting the same dining merlin with the same lens at the same physical distance with both a 7D and a 5DIII.

Male merlin having lunch.

7D looks the winner there.

The sharpening is completely different - the 5D3 is way overdone. Why? I'm sure you could have sharpened the 5D3 less and gotten a better result, and at the same time shown the difference in a more 'realistic' manner.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Lester Walas
Regular MemberPosts: 127Gear list
Like?
Re: 6D vs 7D --- Image Quality (there's no comparison)
In reply to mariadc, May 7, 2013

I've had my 7D for nearly 3 years now and I agree that the noise can be quite prominent, even on base ISO (especially if you look at a blue sky), when you pixel-peep.

That doesn't matter at all.

In reality, up until ISO 3200, the noise is quite uniform and resambles film grain, which has some obvious benefits. You can shoot in ISO 3200 and still do A4 prints without any significant quality loss.

I mainly do weddings and up until now, I shot using the 7D and 5Dmk1. With the 5D, my maximum ISO was 800, where I could keep a relatively clean image. With the 7D it was 1600 or even 3200 (with proper exposure and little cropping). BTW, I always try to produce realtively noise-free end-user images.

5D had very ugly digital noise at higher ISOs and not a lot of resolution. It rocked with ISO 400 and below (it's FF after all) but that's about it.

I sold the good ol' 5D and upgraded to 5Dmk3. I use a very similar workflow for it as well as for the 7D, as the sensors seem to be similar in terms of noise patterns.

Anyway:

One thing people on DPrev often forget is that photography is not about pixel peeping. Sure as hell customers / target audience will not inspect your RAW files for digital noise. What matters is the overall image quality and, with that in mind, the 7D is a very capable camera.

Another thing people forget (or not realize) is that the amount of noise is not as important (to a degree) as the QUALITY of noise. Even noisy images will be quite acceptable as long as the noise is even and looks like grain.

Practice good exposure, fill your frame right, develop the right workflow, and I promise that you will laugh every time somebody starts moaning about noise or banding.

-- hide signature --

'I haven't cried that much since Titanic'.

 Lester Walas's gear list:Lester Walas's gear list
Canon EOS 7D Canon EOS 5D Mark III Canon EOS 6D Canon EF 24mm f/1.4L II USM Canon EF 135mm f/2.0L USM +3 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
happysnapper64
Senior MemberPosts: 4,216Gear list
Like?
Re: 6D vs 7D --- Image Quality (there's no comparison)
In reply to usedtobedontrustme, May 7, 2013

usedtobedontrustme wrote:

John Vant Land wrote:

It strikes me that it's not quite fair to compare a relatively new 6D with a 3 year old 7D.  It's not only about sensor size and quality but about the level of technology when it is produced.  Let's hold this discussion until the 7D Mk II comes out and the playing field is a little more level.

-- hide signature --

Enjoying God and His Creation.

This isn't a fight or a competition. this is just a comparison of two cameras where supposedly "there is no comparison." Nevertheless, If the 7d looses, I'm sure that lots of us 7d owners will still treat our 7d's with love and respect. by the way, my 7d and 6d sleep together!

-- hide signature --

Some of my pics are in my DPReview Gallery
dt

..Then soon you should be hearing the "clickety..clicks" of little compacts...!

-- hide signature --

lee uk.
There are old pilots, & there are bold pilots, but there are no old bold pilots.

 happysnapper64's gear list:happysnapper64's gear list
Canon EOS 7D Canon EOS 60D Olympus PEN E-PL5 Canon EF-S 15-85mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM Canon EF-S 55-250mm f/4-5.6 IS +8 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
qianp2k
Forum ProPosts: 10,021Gear list
Like?
Re: 6D vs 7D --- Image Quality (there's no comparison)
In reply to mariadc, May 7, 2013

Once you can frame your subject into a portion of 6D VF that is not too small, 6D IQ wins hands down especially in low light. APS-C will still have an advantage in small birds that you'd have to crop 6D files heavily.

I brought 5D3 with the same 100-400L into the zoo in the past Sunday. Compared to previous sets done from my 60D, I found 5D3 photos are sharper despite I need to crop more. FF 6D/5D3 withstands cropping much better than APS-C.

The lions stayed at far end of the rock. I have to crop around 60% but it's still sharp even I cropped to 100% that is something my 60D cannot match.

-- hide signature --
 qianp2k's gear list:qianp2k's gear list
Sony RX100 Canon EOS-1D Mark III Canon EOS 5D Mark II Canon EOS 5D Mark III Sony Alpha 7R +20 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
qianp2k
Forum ProPosts: 10,021Gear list
Like?
Re: 6D vs 7D --- Image Quality (there's no comparison)
In reply to riknash, May 7, 2013

riknash wrote:

Mike921 wrote:

So, comparing a latest technology FF camera with a 2+ year old crop frame camera - and this is a valid discussion about what again?

In my mind, this is a discussion about if a FF camera can deliver equal or better image results than the 7D. Canon has yet to come out with a much improved APS-C sensor in an action camera, so it is still valid to compare the output of a FF with it, as many have chosen to utilize their FF camera in situations one would think would be better served with a crop sensor.

Shooting the same dining merlin with the same lens at the same physical distance with both a 7D and a 5DIII.

Male merlin having lunch.

I don't see much difference in this case.  7D photo received double light and is a bit of over-exposed while 5D3 one is a bit of under-exposed.

-- hide signature --
 qianp2k's gear list:qianp2k's gear list
Sony RX100 Canon EOS-1D Mark III Canon EOS 5D Mark II Canon EOS 5D Mark III Sony Alpha 7R +20 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Spad16
Contributing MemberPosts: 861Gear list
Like?
Re: 6D vs 7D --- Image Quality (there's no comparison)
In reply to mariadc, May 7, 2013

I think Maria is right, there is much more to birding than a bird perching in good light. More often than not the bird is in some bushes, or the light is fading, it depends on where and how you do birding. As a photographic tool for taking beautiful photos of of birds in good light, the 7D probably wins. But in real life birding , at least up here in the North the 6D is very good.  Compared to my old 40D, the extra megapixels make up for the crop factor, so I notice little difference, if anything the 6D is better when zooming in. The nice thing about the 6D is it’s such a terrific all-rounder, not only does it do birds, but also great landscapes and films. I can only compare to my old 40D, but the 6D is so much better that I sold my 40D, I never used it once I had the 6D.

/Neil

 Spad16's gear list:Spad16's gear list
Canon EOS 6D Canon EF 400mm f/5.6L USM Canon EF 17-40mm f/4.0L USM Canon EF 100mm f/2.8 Macro USM Canon EF 24-70mm f/4L IS USM
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Mako2011
Mako2011 MOD
Forum ProPosts: 15,594
Like?
Love the lions
In reply to qianp2k, May 7, 2013

qianp2k wrote:

I brought 5D3 with the same 100-400L into the zoo in the past Sunday. Compared to previous sets done from my 60D, I found 5D3 photos are sharper despite I need to crop more. FF 6D/5D3 withstands cropping much better than APS-C.

The lions stayed at far end of the rock. I have to crop around 60% but it's still sharp even I cropped to 100% that is something my 60D cannot match.

-- hide signature --

Nice examples. Note though that 100% crops on APS-c can be had also. Depends on the camera as well.

100% APS-c crop Example:

From 24mp APS-C image

-- hide signature --

My opinions are my own and not those of DPR or its administration. They carry no 'special' value (except to me and Lacie of course)

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
qianp2k
Forum ProPosts: 10,021Gear list
Like?
Re: Love the lions
In reply to Mako2011, May 7, 2013

Mako2011 wrote:

qianp2k wrote:

I brought 5D3 with the same 100-400L into the zoo in the past Sunday. Compared to previous sets done from my 60D, I found 5D3 photos are sharper despite I need to crop more. FF 6D/5D3 withstands cropping much better than APS-C.

The lions stayed at far end of the rock. I have to crop around 60% but it's still sharp even I cropped to 100% that is something my 60D cannot match.

-- hide signature --

Nice examples. Note though that 100% crops on APS-c can be had also. Depends on the camera as well.

100% APS-c crop Example:

Not bad, but not very sharp and some details are washed out from what I see to be honest.  FF cameras have much better per-pixel IQ over APS-C.

Even that small size of the photo before cropping is not that sharp. FF cameras such as 5D III is noticeably sharper, LOL

From 24mp APS-C image

-- hide signature --

My opinions are my own and not those of DPR or its administration. They carry no 'special' value (except to me and Lacie of course)

-- hide signature --
 qianp2k's gear list:qianp2k's gear list
Sony RX100 Canon EOS-1D Mark III Canon EOS 5D Mark II Canon EOS 5D Mark III Sony Alpha 7R +20 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Mako2011
Mako2011 MOD
Forum ProPosts: 15,594
Like?
Re: Love the lions
In reply to qianp2k, May 7, 2013

qianp2k wrote:


Even that small size of the photo before cropping is not that sharp. FF cameras such as 5D III is noticeably sharper, LOL

Do you have the full size examples of these to share? They seem a bit lacking in detail. Would be nice to compare to the full size to see. Good Color and Low noise though.

My opinions are my own and not those of DPR or its administration. They carry no 'special' value (except to me and Lacie of course)

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
qianp2k
Forum ProPosts: 10,021Gear list
Like?
Re: Love the lions
In reply to Mako2011, May 7, 2013

Mako2011 wrote:

qianp2k wrote:


Even that small size of the photo before cropping is not that sharp. FF cameras such as 5D III is noticeably sharper, LOL

Do you have the full size examples of these to share? They seem a bit lacking in detail. Would be nice to compare to the full size to see. Good Color and Low noise though.

Don't be fooled by amount of furs when you judge sharpness and details. I found usually animal furs are the most commonly used sample to show so-called "details" or "sharpness" (I see too often from mFT shooters for example) from small-sensor cameras that will cause a wrong perception

Those a few 100% cropped 5D3 samples at 22mp size that can show details more clearly.  Don't think your 24mp Nikon APS-C can match.

https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B3MrYp_nWjPGWGhJMVI0R0NmeGc&usp=sharing

My opinions are my own and not those of DPR or its administration. They carry no 'special' value (except to me and Lacie of course)

-- hide signature --
 qianp2k's gear list:qianp2k's gear list
Sony RX100 Canon EOS-1D Mark III Canon EOS 5D Mark II Canon EOS 5D Mark III Sony Alpha 7R +20 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
mailman88
Veteran MemberPosts: 4,891Gear list
Like?
Re: 7D -Image Quality is good enough
In reply to qianp2k, May 7, 2013

....for most situations. I'm a wildlife/sport shooter with a budget.

7D...2500ISO, f/10, 1/1600sec. at 400mm

 mailman88's gear list:mailman88's gear list
Canon EOS 30D Canon EOS 7D Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II Canon EF 200mm f/2.8L II USM Canon EF-S 10-22mm f/3.5-4.5 USM +4 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
qianp2k
Forum ProPosts: 10,021Gear list
Like?
Re: 7D -Image Quality is good enough
In reply to mailman88, May 7, 2013

mailman88 wrote:

....for most situations. I'm a wildlife/sport shooter with a budget.

Nice photo, I agreed.  I have some 60D photos too that are very good especially under good light.

7D...2500ISO, f/10, 1/1600sec. at 400mm

-- hide signature --
 qianp2k's gear list:qianp2k's gear list
Sony RX100 Canon EOS-1D Mark III Canon EOS 5D Mark II Canon EOS 5D Mark III Sony Alpha 7R +20 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Keyboard shortcuts:
FForum MMy threads